Catholic Church Waging War on Women a...

Catholic Church Waging War on Women and Gays

There are 219901 comments on the Fables of the reconstruction story from Oct 30, 2007, titled Catholic Church Waging War on Women and Gays. In it, Fables of the reconstruction reports that:

“Pharmacists must seek to raise people's awareness so that all human beings are protected from conception to natural death, and so that medicines truly play a therapeutic role”

Pope Benedict XVI said Monday that pharmacists have a right to use conscientious objection to avoid dispensing emergency contraception or euthanasia drugs - and told them they should also inform patients of the ... via Fables of the reconstruction

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Fables of the reconstruction.

Ink

Levittown, PA

#254300 Jan 1, 2014
Estelle wrote:
<quoted text>
Deflection Ink?
No. You made your point, what else do you want?
Svaha

Saint Petersburg, FL

#254301 Jan 2, 2014
Ink wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes you are right if you live in a world of rapists and abusive husbands. An abusive husband forcing himself on you is also rape. Why are none of these rapes reported by abortion clinics and no one is ever brought to trial?
How fortunate for you that your world is different. How fortunate for you that you are not exposed to the world others must live in. That you don't have to acknowledge that someone else's reality isn't valid because you say so
Svaha

Saint Petersburg, FL

#254302 Jan 2, 2014
Estelle wrote:
<quoted text>
Deflection Ink?
No one elses reality is valid except for Ink's. Someone elses experiences don't count because Ink hasn't experienced it but feels competent to comment on those experiences bcause she has "faith".

“=”

Since: Oct 07

Appleton WI

#254303 Jan 2, 2014
Estelle wrote:
I left the Catholic Church about two years ago for good.
(I know I didn't attend two Christmas masses so it's about 2 yrs.)
I only went back for a funeral.
There is no way I could even go back because I don't even recognize or acknowledge the Pope's authority.
Since I stop going to confession, to masses etc...,my blood pressure is perfect. I did what was right for me not whatever body else say I should do.
I was told that folks miss me, still love me, pray for me to come back.
If I go back I would need to take pills for depression because I would need to pretend and go through all the rituals like I'm still really into it.
I won't do that. It's better being true to myself.
I respect others who are still part of the Catholic Church like friends, relatives and all my brothers.
Happy New Year to ALL posters that includes you June!
Happy New Year to one of the kind Thomas (Tre H)!
Happy New Year Estelle... and everybody else.
May 2014 be better than 2013.
Ink

Levittown, PA

#254304 Jan 2, 2014
Svaha wrote:
<quoted text>
How fortunate for you that your world is different. How fortunate for you that you are not exposed to the world others must live in. That you don't have to acknowledge that someone else's reality isn't valid because you say so
I have lived in both worlds and all points are valid. The only thing that got out of an abusive world was to take responsibility for myself and expect more from life than to be a victim.

“=”

Since: Oct 07

Appleton WI

#254305 Jan 2, 2014
Ink wrote:
<quoted text>
I think it is you who expect so little of women. You think that even with the availability of all types of contraception today, that women still shouldn't be expected to protect themselves.
Now you're telling me what (you think) I expect and what I think. First of all. unwanted pregnancies and trying to prevent them, are the responsibility of both women AND men, and so is contraception.I learned that the hard way. So you may as well be calling ME irresponsible and unintelligent along with my ex wife. We were very young and not planning on having children (yet). I didn't think condoms were necessary because she was on the pill, which is said to be as effective.

Well... she/we got pregnant TWICE while on the pill. We are BOTH responsible for this. This is hardly a unique situation, and does not make us stupid or irresponsible, it makes us human. I don't know the exact statistics, but I'd guess that half or more of all children conceived are "unexpected."
Ink wrote:
I guess it is irritating to be realistic instead of enabling. We have a country full of people who can't do the slightest thing for themselves and it starts with personal responsibility..
I don't know where you get the idea that I'm "enabling" women. I'm all for education and contraception. I just don't think it's helpful to cast judgment when people still end up with unwanted pregnancies. And I don't think you're being realistic at all. And when you make statements like "We have a country full of people who can't do the slightest thing for themselves and it starts with personal responsibility," you seem very judgmental, self-righteous and superior, not realistic... not in tune with reality.
Ink wrote:
I am very sympathethic for women who have gotten in bad situations but I can't maintain that sympathy when one doesn't learn and make changes. Being unintentionally pregnant shouldn't be a lifestyle and sadly too often it is.
As for me, I have four children.
Oh my... so how many strikes should people get before they're sent to a lake of fire for eternity? One more than you've had? How do you define the word sympathy?

“=”

Since: Oct 07

Appleton WI

#254306 Jan 2, 2014
Ink wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes you are right if you live in a world of rapists and abusive husbands. An abusive husband forcing himself on you is also rape. Why are none of these rapes reported by abortion clinics and no one is ever brought to trial?
I thought we all lived in the same world, but obviously we all perceive it differently. In your world, I'm sure you have no idea how your above post is yet another conspicuous display of ignorance.

Your world is very small and has no room for people with experiences you are not familiar with or don't fully understand. Consider yourself fortunate that you haven't been forced to think very deeply about such things that don't happen in your world, but know that it doesn't make you smarter, more responsible, or in any way superior.

As a man, I can never get pregnant, but I actually have been raped, and I do have some understanding of why things don't always get reported. There are actually MANY things to consider in just my own case, and I imagine there are many other factors for other people. But your world has the luxury of not thinking about those things. Your world has the luxury of being narrow-minded and thinking that's a good thing.
Ink

Levittown, PA

#254307 Jan 3, 2014
Tre H wrote:
<quoted text>
I thought we all lived in the same world, but obviously we all perceive it differently. In your world, I'm sure you have no idea how your above post is yet another conspicuous display of ignorance.
Your world is very small and has no room for people with experiences you are not familiar with or don't fully understand. Consider yourself fortunate that you haven't been forced to think very deeply about such things that don't happen in your world, but know that it doesn't make you smarter, more responsible, or in any way superior.
As a man, I can never get pregnant, but I actually have been raped, and I do have some understanding of why things don't always get reported. There are actually MANY things to consider in just my own case, and I imagine there are many other factors for other people. But your world has the luxury of not thinking about those things. Your world has the luxury of being narrow-minded and thinking that's a good thing.
I was also raped when very young and if some one knew and reported it my situation would have improved dramatically. I view this from a very personal point of view and that is why I am outraged that there is no help through PP for girls like myself. You have no idea what these girls who are given an abortion without any follow up, go back to. I do think my life's experiences have given me a knowledge and empathy for those in similar situations.
Ink

Levittown, PA

#254308 Jan 3, 2014
Tre H wrote:
<quoted text>
Now you're telling me what (you think) I expect and what I think. First of all. unwanted pregnancies and trying to prevent them, are the responsibility of both women AND men, and so is contraception.I learned that the hard way. So you may as well be calling ME irresponsible and unintelligent along with my ex wife. We were very young and not planning on having children (yet). I didn't think condoms were necessary because she was on the pill, which is said to be as effective.
Well... she/we got pregnant TWICE while on the pill. We are BOTH responsible for this. This is hardly a unique situation, and does not make us stupid or irresponsible, it makes us human. I don't know the exact statistics, but I'd guess that half or more of all children conceived are "unexpected."
<quoted text>
I don't know where you get the idea that I'm "enabling" women. I'm all for education and contraception. I just don't think it's helpful to cast judgment when people still end up with unwanted pregnancies. And I don't think you're being realistic at all. And when you make statements like "We have a country full of people who can't do the slightest thing for themselves and it starts with personal responsibility," you seem very judgmental, self-righteous and superior, not realistic... not in tune with reality.
<quoted text>
Oh my... so how many strikes should people get before they're sent to a lake of fire for eternity? One more than you've had? How do you define the word sympathy?
I would agree that contraception is the responsibility of both people but if you are the one most affected, then don't depend on someone else for your protection.

As far as enabling, I was thinking more along the lines of generational welfare, PP and even grandparents raising their children's children. The reality is that all this is happening and it shouldn't. Don't worry about the fire of eternity, they are creating a continuing hell on earth for themselves and their families. I do feel sorry for those caught up in what seems like hopelessness, I know that feeling but it doesn't have to be that way and those that think they are helping by providing cheap abortions and free contraception are not addressing to underlying problems.
Svaha

Saint Petersburg, FL

#254309 Jan 3, 2014
Ink wrote:
<quoted text>
I have lived in both worlds and all points are valid. The only thing that got out of an abusive world was to take responsibility for myself and expect more from life than to be a victim.
good for you
Svaha

Saint Petersburg, FL

#254310 Jan 3, 2014
Ink wrote:
<quoted text>
I was also raped when very young and if some one knew and reported it my situation would have improved dramatically. I view this from a very personal point of view and that is why I am outraged that there is no help through PP for girls like myself. You have no idea what these girls who are given an abortion without any follow up, go back to. I do think my life's experiences have given me a knowledge and empathy for those in similar situations.
You don't empathsize. You judge

“=”

Since: Oct 07

Appleton WI

#254311 Jan 3, 2014
Ink wrote:
<quoted text>
I was also raped when very young and if some one knew and reported it my situation would have improved dramatically. I view this from a very personal point of view and that is why I am outraged that there is no help through PP for girls like myself. You have no idea what these girls who are given an abortion without any follow up, go back to. I do think my life's experiences have given me a knowledge and empathy for those in similar situations.
I'm sorry for what happened to you when you were younger. You claim this experience gives you empathy, and it should, but you still come off as very judgmental of women with unwanted pregnancies.

Perhaps viewing ONLY from your personal experience and not realizing that others may have very different experiences doesn't give you as much insight as you think it does. You may have empathy for those who have gone through the same thing you have, but you judge others as unintelligent and irresponsible without even knowing their situation.

I'm very much aware that there are many situations when rape should absolutely be reported. I'm also aware that in other situations, unfortunately, things will only get WORSE for the victim, and the aftermath can be as bad or worse than the actual rape... and still, little or nothing happens to the rapist..

In a perfect world, rape wouldn't happen. In a more ideal world, rapists would be punished without the victim having to suffer MORE punishment. In the real world, things don't always work out so well.

You said, "You have no idea what these girls who are given an abortion without any follow up, go back to."

You are correct. I have no idea, and never claimed to. I also will not judge them, especially without knowing their situations.

“=”

Since: Oct 07

Appleton WI

#254312 Jan 3, 2014
Ink wrote:
<quoted text>
I would agree that contraception is the responsibility of both people but if you are the one most affected, then don't depend on someone else for your protection.
As far as enabling, I was thinking more along the lines of generational welfare, PP and even grandparents raising their children's children. The reality is that all this is happening and it shouldn't.
I'm not clear what "all this" is when you say "all this is happening." It seems like you're bringing up yet another subject we weren't previously discussing. Now you have this vague concept of "generational welfare," but in an earlier post, you implied that I PERSONALLY am somehow responsible for "enabling" women who end up with unwanted pregnancies, because I don't choose to harshly judge them.

Your train of thought seems to bounce all over the place, and it is sometimes difficult to know what point, if any, you are really trying to make.
Ink wrote:
Don't worry about the fire of eternity, they are creating a continuing hell on earth for themselves and their families. I do feel sorry for those caught up in what seems like hopelessness, I know that feeling but it doesn't have to be that way
You feel sorry for them, but you believe they've created their own hell. Sorry if I don't recall what flavor of pseudo-christian you are... you can't be Catholic endorsing contraception and birth control. Do I detect a hint of perhaps a "born again" pseudo-christian?
Ink wrote:
and those that think they are helping by providing cheap abortions and free contraception are not addressing to underlying problems.
Huh? What are you saying? Abortions and/or contraception should be more expensive or harder to obtain? That would help? What ARE the "underlying problems" that aren't addressed, and that you haven't addressed either?

This is really how you come off to me... you come off as someone who thinks they know the answers, but refuses to tell us what the answers are, and thinks we're stupid for not knowing what you know but won't tell us.

You also remind me of some "born again" people, who were once "sinners" and now that they have "found the lord" feel self-righteous and superior to other "sinners" who have not yet found the lord.
Ink

Levittown, PA

#254313 Jan 7, 2014
Tre H wrote:
<quoted text>
<quoted text>
You feel sorry for them, but you believe they've created their own hell. Sorry if I don't recall what flavor of pseudo-christian you are... you can't be Catholic endorsing contraception and birth control. Do I detect a hint of perhaps a "born again" pseudo-christian?
<quoted text>
Huh? What are you saying? Abortions and/or contraception should be more expensive or harder to obtain? That would help? What ARE the "underlying problems" that aren't addressed, and that you haven't addressed either?
This is really how you come off to me... you come off as someone who thinks they know the answers, but refuses to tell us what the answers are, and thinks we're stupid for not knowing what you know but won't tell us.
You also remind me of some "born again" people, who were once "sinners" and now that they have "found the lord" feel self-righteous and superior to other "sinners" who have not yet found the lord.
I think I have to address only one thing at a time with you.

"I'm not clear what "all this" is when you say "all this is happening." It seems like you're bringing up yet another subject we weren't previously discussing. Now you have this vague concept of "generational welfare," but in an earlier post, you implied that I PERSONALLY am somehow responsible for "enabling" women who end up with unwanted pregnancies, because I don't choose to harshly judge them.
Your train of thought seems to bounce all over the place, and it is sometimes difficult to know what point, if any, you are really trying to make."

I didn't say or infer that you were personally responsible for all the unwanted pregnancies. If you were that would be awesome, though. I am not judging women harshly as you say but only listing some reasons why this is a huge problem. Generational welfare is is when the women in a family have babies and live on assistance solely and have daughters who have babies and granddaughters with babies all lacking in education and skills to be employed.
The cycle never ends. In the same neighborhoods are men fathering several children and not supporting them and providing no good father figure.

I am sure you disagree and think I am just harsh and judgemental.

“=”

Since: Oct 07

Appleton WI

#254314 Jan 8, 2014
Ink wrote:
<quoted text>
I think I have to address only one thing at a time with you.
"I'm not clear what "all this" is when you say "all this is happening." It seems like you're bringing up yet another subject we weren't previously discussing. Now you have this vague concept of "generational welfare," but in an earlier post, you implied that I PERSONALLY am somehow responsible for "enabling" women who end up with unwanted pregnancies, because I don't choose to harshly judge them.
Your train of thought seems to bounce all over the place, and it is sometimes difficult to know what point, if any, you are really trying to make."
I didn't say or infer that you were personally responsible for all the unwanted pregnancies. If you were that would be awesome, though. I am not judging women harshly as you say but only listing some reasons why this is a huge problem. Generational welfare is is when the women in a family have babies and live on assistance solely and have daughters who have babies and granddaughters with babies all lacking in education and skills to be employed.
The cycle never ends. In the same neighborhoods are men fathering several children and not supporting them and providing no good father figure.
I am sure you disagree and think I am just harsh and judgemental.
I am not denying that these things happen and are a problem that needs addressing.

But yes... I think you're judgmental. You've suggested that women who have unwanted pregnancies are unintelligent and irresponsible, among other things. If that's not judgmental, I don't know what is.

You THINK you have empathy, but you really don't. If they don't hurry up and do what YOU think is the intelligent, responsible thing, you have no patience for these "problem" women, and it's their own fault that things happen the way they do.. and they don't fit with your concept of how the world should be.
Economist

Grand Island, NY

#254315 Jan 8, 2014
Ink wrote:
<quoted text>
If you need me to give you instructions on avoiding pregnancy, I will be happy to oblige. Praying isn't one of them.
Inky Old Friend

I see you no longer believe in the power of prayer.

That is great progress.

Now let's work on another of your pet opinions formed by what you were told as a child.

Any suggestion which one?

How about the reality of a place known as Hell?

Or ought we to start with only the existence of the Devil?
Economist

Grand Island, NY

#254316 Jan 8, 2014
Inky Gal

When you writ:

"Generational welfare is is when the women in a family have babies and live on assistance solely and have daughters who have babies and granddaughters with babies all lacking in education and skills to be employed.
The cycle never ends. In the same neighborhoods are men fathering several children and not supporting them and providing no good father figure."

I no longer see you as judgmental ---I See you as Racist.

And also incorrect.

As a matter of fact, generational warfare refers to when one generation is goaded into seeing another generation as taking more than their fair share or not contributing their fair share to economic opportunities or group assets.

Since: Apr 08

Location hidden

#254318 Jan 9, 2014
There's been conversations about people hoping Pope Francis would expand his talks about homosexuals in the priesthood.

No doubt there are priests who are gay but still carry out their duties well and live a chaste life.

Sure Pope Francis said he's not judging priests who are gay. Like it or not Pope Francis has opened the door about gays in the priesthood and eventually he will need to address this homosexuality topic more deeply instead of just saying he will not judge gay priests.

Anyhow many already know there are gay priests but many folks choose not to talk about it because as long they do there job and there is no scandal it just doesn't matter to them.
Leave gay priests and clergy alone. If it wasn't for those gay men there would be less priests around.

The sad thing is that gay priests and clergy pretend they do not have that gay inclination and that shows gays in the priesthood are ill at ease to reveal that info being gay because of the backlash they would face.In other words too much of a cross to bear in religious terms.

There is a big difference between homosexuality and pedophilia.
Many know the difference but many more still need to be educated about homosexuality.

As for myself I have first hand experience the damage that was done by a closet gay priest.

I wish I would had the wisdom way back then because maybe that is a big maybe I would had dealt with this gay priest differently.

That gay issue among many other issues are reasons I left the Catholic Church.

“=”

Since: Oct 07

Appleton WI

#254319 Jan 10, 2014
Estelle wrote:
There's been conversations about people hoping Pope Francis would expand his talks about homosexuals in the priesthood.
No doubt there are priests who are gay but still carry out their duties well and live a chaste life.
Sure Pope Francis said he's not judging priests who are gay. Like it or not Pope Francis has opened the door about gays in the priesthood and eventually he will need to address this homosexuality topic more deeply instead of just saying he will not judge gay priests.
Anyhow many already know there are gay priests but many folks choose not to talk about it because as long they do there job and there is no scandal it just doesn't matter to them.
Leave gay priests and clergy alone. If it wasn't for those gay men there would be less priests around.
The sad thing is that gay priests and clergy pretend they do not have that gay inclination and that shows gays in the priesthood are ill at ease to reveal that info being gay because of the backlash they would face.In other words too much of a cross to bear in religious terms.
There is a big difference between homosexuality and pedophilia.
Many know the difference but many more still need to be educated about homosexuality.
As for myself I have first hand experience the damage that was done by a closet gay priest.
I wish I would had the wisdom way back then because maybe that is a big maybe I would had dealt with this gay priest differently.
That gay issue among many other issues are reasons I left the Catholic Church.
Hello Estelle.

From my perspective, gay Catholic priests just spells dysfunction from the get-go. Not that I have anything against them, but how can they not be ashamed of themselves, if they believe what the Catholic church teaches about homosexuals?

I can't claim to understand the mindset of a gay man who decides to become a Catholic priest, but I'm guessing it involves some warped and unhealthy emotions and thinking. Not because they are gay, but because they can't help but be very aware of what the church teaches. It just seems like a bad idea to me for a person to subject themselves to this.

When you said "gays in the priesthood are ill at ease to reveal that info being gay because of the backlash they would face.." you hit the nail on the head. They shouldn't have to feel ill at ease at all, but their choice to become Catholic priests kind of locks that in... it kind of guarantees an unhealthy environment. Whether it manifests in how they are treated by others, or how they perceive themselves, it just seems like a bad idea to me.

As for the new pope, I've probably already said that I'm skeptical. If he can influence people to be more tolerant and less judgmental toward gay people, that's a good thing.. But the bottom line is, the doctrine isn't going to change.

I'm glad this pope SEEMS to be more humble and in tune with regular people, even if it's just an act... because it's a much better act for people to admire and respect than the reputation of arrogance and harsh judgment that the church had.

This pope really does seem "nicer" and "humbler," and perhaps he actually is. I just think it's interesting that he conveniently came along just when the church really desperately needed a new improved image, and pope Benedict is still alive.
Ink

Levittown, PA

#254320 Jan 11, 2014
Economist wrote:
Inky Gal
When you writ:
"Generational welfare is is when the women in a family have babies and live on assistance solely and have daughters who have babies and granddaughters with babies all lacking in education and skills to be employed.
The cycle never ends. In the same neighborhoods are men fathering several children and not supporting them and providing no good father figure."
I no longer see you as judgmental ---I See you as Racist.
And also incorrect.
As a matter of fact, generational warfare refers to when one generation is goaded into seeing another generation as taking more than their fair share or not contributing their fair share to economic opportunities or group assets.
You may see me as racist if you want but it is a fact and I didn't even start on urban children killing other urban children at an alarming rate.

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