What does the Bible actually say about being gay?

Confused how two groups of church-goers can have such conflicting views about whether it's OK to be gay? Both sides of the debate about homosexuality in the church, which threatens to split the worldwide ...

[Rick in Kansas]

I found this to be a well written and balanced article on the subject and thought it would be an interesting starting point for discussion. While biblical scripture can be interpreted to support many different points of view, there is rarely any rational discussion as to why such beliefs might be right or wrong.

[Rick in Kansas]

Joplin wrote:

To those who believe in the Bible, there is no room for doubt:

Of course you didn't even bother to read the link to this thread, afterall anything that might run factually counter to your personal delusions isn't welcome there in your dark wonderland. I was hoping for a rationl discussion on the subject and I get the one person who has never exhibited rationality as the first to respond.

Oh, well. It was worth the try...

[Patrick in Texas]

Joplin wrote:

<quoted text>
To those who believe in the Bible, there is no room for doubt:
Rom 1:26-27 "For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural, and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error."
1 Cor 6:9 "Or do you not know that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals"
1 Tim 1:9-10 "realizing the fact that (civil) law is not made for a righteous man, but for those who are lawless and rebellious, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers and immoral men and homosexuals and kidnappers and liars and perjurers"
Lev 18:22-23 "You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination."
Lev 20:13 "If there is a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act; they shall surely be put to death."
Gen 19:5-8 "and they called to Lot and said to him,'Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us that we may have relations with them.' But Lot went out to them at the doorway, and shut the door behind him, and said,'Please, my brothers, do not act wickedly.'"
Christian Tradition, as well as Jewish and Islamic Tradtions also support the Bible's repeated condemnations of homosexual acts.

Actually, there is plenty of room for doubt as the article clearly spells out.

[Jade]

Patrick in Texas wrote:

<quoted text>
Actually, there is plenty of room for doubt as the article clearly spells out.

Patrick, you are lucky I don't live in Austin, because you would have a "stalker" following you around. I think you are one hot man! Wish I could have bumped into you at "Oil Can Harry's"(I think that was the name of the bar?) when I was visiting Austin over New Year's!

[Patrick in Texas]

Jade wrote:

<quoted text>
Patrick, you are lucky I don't live in Austin, because you would have a "stalker" following you around. I think you are one hot man! Wish I could have bumped into you at "Oil Can Harry's"(I think that was the name of the bar?) when I was visiting Austin over New Year's!

That is the third compliment I have received today. This really feels like my lucky day. I think I will go out and buy a lottery ticket this afternoon. I hope you had fun in Austin. I have been here for years and really love this city.

[Rick in Kansas]

Shaun wrote:

<quoted text>
You don't know much about Christianity, do you Hick.
There are some who still call themselves Christian, but in fact supplant Christian Doctrine with the silly PCisms of our day. EVERY group that does this is in steep decline, while nearly all who don't continue to grow rapidly.
Both the Bible and Christian Tradition condemn homosexual acts. You can follow Jesus or yield to your homosexual lust and spend eternity in hell. The choice is yours.

I may not know much about "christianity" in your esteemed opinion, but the reality is that I've repeatedly demonstrated a better grasp on the subject than you've ever attempted. So if you believe I don't really know what I'm talking about, that would mean that you know even less.
It's fine that you believe in the intolerant and hateful little god that you claim to worship, you have every right to believe as you claim. What I was hoping for here, at least from those actually caapable of it was a rational discussion of why people choose to believe their interpretation of the Bible is more accurate than anyone else's. I could not possibly care less about church membership and which ones are growing and which ones are not as that really doesn't mean anything. Like I've told you repeatedly, I want you to provide a rational reason as to why we should believe what you have to say on the subjec. Remember, you've got to keep in mind here your reputation for delusions and frequently repeated pathological lies, so we're not about to take a because I said so, especially from the likes of you.

[Rick in Kansas]

Micah wrote:

...

YAWN..........

[Patrick in Texas]

Micah wrote:

<quoted text>
Hick. You've made your choice. You call the God of the Bible a "hateful little god."
You have condemned yourself to hell both by damning God and choosing a lifestyle in rebellion against His Word.
There is no ancient text, legitimate translation, or mainstream incarnation of Christianity to support your lies, Hick. You stand on your own in defiance of God and His Word.
Homosexual acts are abomination in His Site:
Rom 1:26-27 "For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural, and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error."
1 Cor 6:9 "Or do you not know that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals"
1 Tim 1:9-10 "realizing the fact that (civil) law is not made for a righteous man, but for those who are lawless and rebellious, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers and immoral men and homosexuals and kidnappers and liars and perjurers"
Lev 18:22-23 "You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination."
Lev 20:13 "If there is a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act; they shall surely be put to death."
Gen 19:5-8 "and they called to Lot and said to him,'Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us that we may have relations with them.' But Lot went out to them at the doorway, and shut the door behind him, and said,'Please, my brothers, do not act wickedly.'"

You sound self-righteous and judgemental. Jesus certainly never said anything against homosexuality.

[Craig]

It's really interesting that scripture after scripture is quoted with homosexual in it... when the word didn't even exist until the umpteenth translation. I think the ones that are really going to burn are all those translators that changed the word of God to their own meaning. You might read up on the history of the KJV and why it was even translated!!!

[Rick in Kansas]

Plainfield wrote:

...

I have an honest interest in the subject, but I'd prefer to discuss it with someone who actually knows what there talking about rather than a delusional lunatic that can only spout scripture without any understanding. You and your constant diatribes are nothing but boring.

[Craig]

Rick in Kansas wrote:

<quoted text> I have an honest interest in the subject, but I'd prefer to discuss it with someone who actually knows what there talking about rather than a delusional lunatic that can only spout scripture without any understanding. You and your constant diatribes are nothing but boring.

Rick, he'll never discuss intellectually. So, it's no use trying. I think his is a dying breed anyway. Most true Christians don't focus on the hate and condemnation of the Bible. The radicals are up in arms because articles like this are even published. A decade ago, such an intellectual story, fair-sided, would have never been published. Our side fears the story won't be heard enough.. their side fears it will be heard by many.

On another note.. see you are from Salina. My family was from, and I was born in, Clay Center.

[gayray]

Joplin wrote:

<quoted text>
blahblahblah

Thank you for doing so much to educate people regarding God's Law.

I have learned a great deal from your posts and I try to share that knowledge with as many people as I can.

When someone tries to defend the homosexual lifestyle, for example, I simply remind them that Leviticus 18:22 clearly states it to be an abomination.

End of debate.

I do need some advice from you, however, regarding some other elements of God's Laws and how to follow them.

1. Leviticus 25:44 states that I may possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighboring nations. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians. Can you clarify? Why can't I own Canadians?

2. I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her?(I'm pretty sure she's a virgin).

3. When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odor for the Lord - Lev.1:9. The problem is, my neighbors. They claim the odor is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them?

4. I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2. clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself, or should I ask the police to do it?

5. A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an abomination - Lev. 11:10, it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don't agree. Can you settle this? Aren't there 'degrees' of abomination?

6. Lev.21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle-room here?

7. Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev. 19:27. How should they die?

8. I know from Lev. 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves?

I know you have studied these things extensively and thus enjoy considerable expertise in such matters, so I am confident you can help.

Thank you again for reminding us that God's word is eternal and unchanging!

silly janis

XXOXXOXOXOX

[Resist Ignorance]

gayray wrote:

<quoted text>
Thank you for doing so much to educate people regarding God's Law.

Ah crap, gayray, you beat me to it. I was going to post that but I spent too much time re-reading it and having a good laugh. Here are a couple more to add to the list.

9. I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of menstrual uncleanliness - Lev.15: 19-24. The problem is how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offense.

10. My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev.19:19 by planting two different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them?(Lev.24:10-16). Couldn't we just burn them to death at a private family affair, like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws?(Lev.20:14)

[Rick in Kansas]

I know all too well that I can't get him to participate in anything close to an intellectual discussion, it's well beyond his capacity. If he can't cut and paste it, he'd actually have nothing to say. He's basically a muppet, someone shoves their hand up his backsides and he just mouths their words, I've never known him to have an original thought on this site since I joined last November. I just enjoy poking him with a sharp stick every now and again, it's more to provoke him into being a raving lunatic than the thought that I'd get any other kind of response out of him.
I actually know Clay Center quite well, I go there once a year to volunteer as a judge at their high school debate tournament, which I've done for years. I haven't been down there in a couple of years but I've also misspent some time down in OKC....

Craig wrote:

<quoted text>
Rick, he'll never discuss intellectually. So, it's no use trying. I think his is a dying breed anyway. Most true Christians don't focus on the hate and condemnation of the Bible. The radicals are up in arms because articles like this are even published. A decade ago, such an intellectual story, fair-sided, would have never been published. Our side fears the story won't be heard enough.. their side fears it will be heard by many.
On another note.. see you are from Salina. My family was from, and I was born in, Clay Center.

[Del]

Hick in Kansas wrote:

I know all too well that I can't get him to participate in anything close to an intellectual discussion, it's well beyond his capacity. If he can't cut and paste it, he'd actually have nothing to say. He's basically a muppet, someone shoves their hand up his backsides and he just mouths their words, I've never known him to have an original thought on this site since I joined last November. I just enjoy poking him with a sharp stick every now and again, it's more to provoke him into being a raving lunatic than the thought that I'd get any other kind of response out of him.
I actually know Clay Center quite well, I go there once a year to volunteer as a judge at their high school debate tournament, which I've done for years. I haven't been down there in a couple of years but I've also misspent some time down in OKC....
<quoted text>

Hick, face reality. You don't have the intelligence or background in this subject for an intellectual discussion. You've just reposted nonsense from homofascist hates sites that you can't logically defend.

The Bible repeated condemns your lifestyle choice. That's reality. Face it, Hick. Spend eternity in hell, or repent. It's your choice.

[Craig in OKC]

Del wrote:

<quoted text>
Hick, face reality. You don't have the intelligence or background in this subject for an intellectual discussion. You've just reposted nonsense from homofascist hates sites that you can't logically defend.
The Bible repeated condemns your lifestyle choice. That's reality. Face it, Hick. Spend eternity in hell, or repent. It's your choice.

If it's ignorant, hateful, hate-filled, ugly minded people like you that are going to be in heaven.. then I pick hell, thank you very much. End of discussion, End of Debate. Thanks for helping me make up my mind. Now go stand where the light is dim... oh, wait, you're already there.

[Roy]

Craig in OKC wrote:

<quoted text>
If it's ignorant, hateful, hate-filled, ugly minded people like you that are going to be in heaven.. then I pick hell, thank you very much. End of discussion, End of Debate. Thanks for helping me make up my mind. Now go stand where the light is dim... oh, wait, you're already there.

From the homofascist rant you post, I assume hell was you goal.

[Rick in Kansas]

Del wrote:

....

YAWN>>>>> You do realize that you're one of the only so-called christians who makes hell a desirable alternative? As I've told you many times before, if you are supposed to be an example of what it means to be a good follower of your god, point me in any direction but. Give me open rebellion to your intolerant and hateful little god than the threat of an eternity in your so-called "heaven" to be spent with the likes of you. Whatever Gods may be listening, please spare me from such a damnable fate....

[Boyto]

Hick in Kansas wrote:

<quoted text>
YAWN>>>>> You do realize that you're one of the only so-called christians who makes hell a desirable alternative? As I've told you many times before, if you are supposed to be an example of what it means to be a good follower of your god, point me in any direction but. Give me open rebellion to your intolerant and hateful little god than the threat of an eternity in your so-called "heaven" to be spent with the likes of you. Whatever Gods may be listening, please spare me from such a damnable fate....

Hick, you've made it more than plain that you hate Christianity and it's Bible.

You can't dispute the fact that the Bible repeatedly condemns your lifestyle choice.

So what are you doing here, Hick?

[McMike]

Good article but it left out the one main fact which wins our case hands down. The meaning of the original text and how 'homosexuality' was inserted where it originally didn't exist. Sure, having sex with a man is abomination in the same way you're going to be unclean for a temple ritual act if you eat shellfish. Your body has to be pure. Homosexuality was inserted where only 'sexually immoral' was written in one passage from the OT. How about Paul was referring specifically to temple prostitution when he made his case? Even though this article makes a good case, by leaving out these facts it has done an injustice to what many of us already know.