Church Leaders Vow Political Backlash if Gay Marriage Passes

Jan 7, 2013 Full story: NBC Chicago 17,568

Leaders of several Chicago-area African American churches on Monday urged state lawmakers to vote against pending legislation that would allow same-sex marriage in Illinois.

Full Story

Since: Jun 11

AOL

#1919 Jan 26, 2013
Evidence exists that same-sex marriages were tolerated in parts of Mesopotamia and ancient Egypt. Artifacts from Egypt, for example, show that same-sex relationships not only existed, but the discovery of a pharaonic tomb for such a couple shows their union was recognized by the kingdom. Meanwhile, accounts of the Israelites' departure for Canaan include their condemnation of Egyptian acceptance of same-sex practice. In actuality, same-sex marital practices and rituals are less known in Egypt compared to Mesopotamia, where documents exist for a variety of marital practices, including male lovers of kings and polyandry. None of the recorded laws of Mesopotamia, including the Code of Hammurabi, contain restrictions against same-sex unions despite the fact that marriages are otherwise well regulated. "
http://www.randomhistory.com/history-of-gay-m...

Since: Jun 11

AOL

#1920 Jan 26, 2013
A book by the Dominican missionary and Prior, Jacques Goar (1601-1653), includes same sex ceremonies in a printed collection of Greek Orthodox prayer books,“Euchologion Sive Rituale Graecorum Complectens Ritus Et Ordines Divinae Liturgiae”(Paris, 1667).

Another book by Gerald of Wales (‘Geraldus Cambrensis’) recorded same gender Christian sanctified unions also took place in Ireland in the late 12th and early 13th centuries.

"Historical evidence, including legal documents and gravesites, can be interpreted as supporting the prevalence of homosexual relationships hundreds of years ago, said Allan Tulchin of Shippensburg University in Pennsylvania.

“Western family structures have been much more varied than many people today seem to realize," Tulchin writes in the September issue of the Journal of Modern History. "And Western legal systems have in the past made provisions for a variety of household structures.” http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20464004/ns/techn...

Since: Jun 11

AOL

#1921 Jan 26, 2013
A tomb of a same sex couple, Niankhkhnum and Khnumhotep was discovered in 1964 in the necropolis of Saqqara, Egypt. The tomb dates to the Fifth Dynasty (circa 2,500 BCE), and shows that homosexual marriages date back over 4 millennia!

Records of Christian same sex unions have been discovered in such diverse archives as those in the Vatican, in St. Petersburg, in Paris, in Istanbul and in the Sinai, covering a thousand-years from the 8th to the 18th century.

Prof. John Boswell, the late Chairman of Yale University’s history department, discovered that in addition to heterosexual marriage ceremonies in ancient Christian church liturgical documents, there were also ceremonies called the "Office of Same-Sex Union" (10th and 11th century), and the "Order for Uniting Two Men" (11th and 12th century).

Such same gender Christian sanctified unions also took place in Ireland in the late 12th and/ early 13th century, as the chronicler Gerald of Wales (‘Geraldus Cambrensis’) recorded.

Another 14th century Serbian Slavonic "Office of the Same Sex Union", uniting two men or two women, had the couple lay their right hands on the Gospel while having a crucifix placed in their left hands. After kissing the Gospel, the couple were then required to kiss each other, after which the priest, having raised up the Eucharist, would give them both communion.

Records of Christian same sex unions have been discovered in such diverse archives as those in the Vatican, in St. Petersburg, in Paris, in Istanbul and in the Sinai, covering a thousand-years from the 8th to the 18th century.

“laugh until your belly hurts”

Since: Dec 06

Location hidden

#1922 Jan 26, 2013
barry wrote:
<quoted text>there are hundreds even thousands of them, so if you don't know how Bibles are translated then perhaps you should not be commenting on it.
no bible has been 'translated' since john wycliffe translated the vulgate... and even the vulgate was wildly inaccurate. every thing since has been a rewrite of wycliffe's work with changes made to make each new generation feel good about themselves.

“I Luv Carbon Dioxide”

Since: Dec 08

Location hidden

#1923 Jan 27, 2013
Not Yet Equal wrote:
A book by the Dominican missionary and Prior, Jacques Goar (1601-1653), includes same sex ceremonies in a printed collection of Greek Orthodox prayer books,“Euchologion Sive Rituale Graecorum Complectens Ritus Et Ordines Divinae Liturgiae”(Paris, 1667).
Another book by Gerald of Wales (‘Geraldus Cambrensis’) recorded same gender Christian sanctified unions also took place in Ireland in the late 12th and early 13th centuries.
"Historical evidence, including legal documents and gravesites, can be interpreted as supporting the prevalence of homosexual relationships hundreds of years ago, said Allan Tulchin of Shippensburg University in Pennsylvania.
“Western family structures have been much more varied than many people today seem to realize," Tulchin writes in the September issue of the Journal of Modern History. "And Western legal systems have in the past made provisions for a variety of household structures.”[URL deleted]
Same sex unions have always existed; I support civil unions too.

Marriage has always been male/female in written law.

“I Luv Carbon Dioxide”

Since: Dec 08

Location hidden

#1924 Jan 27, 2013
Not Yet Equal wrote:
A tomb of a same sex couple, Niankhkhnum and Khnumhotep was discovered in 1964 in the necropolis of Saqqara, Egypt. The tomb dates to the Fifth Dynasty (circa 2,500 BCE), and shows that homosexual marriages date back over 4 millennia!
Rather, once every 4,000 years there is credible evidence of same sex marriage; the exception proves the rule.

Marriage has always been male/female.

.
Not Yet Equal wrote:
Records of Christian same sex unions have been discovered in such diverse archives as those in the Vatican, in St. Petersburg, in Paris, in Istanbul and in the Sinai, covering a thousand-years from the 8th to the 18th century.
Same sex civil unions are still legal today; I support civil unions and domestic partnerships as perfect compromise.

.
Not Yet Equal wrote:
Prof. John Boswell, the late Chairman of Yale University’s history department, discovered that in addition to heterosexual marriage ceremonies in ancient Christian church liturgical documents, there were also ceremonies called the "Office of Same-Sex Union" (10th and 11th century), and the "Order for Uniting Two Men" (11th and 12th century).
Marriage has always been male/female and when institutions have created no ceremonies, same sex unions aren't called marriage.

.
Not Yet Equal wrote:
Such same gender Christian sanctified unions also took place in Ireland in the late 12th and/ early 13th century, as the chronicler Gerald of Wales (‘Geraldus Cambrensis’) recorded.
These 'same gender Christian sanctified unions' exist in Texas, no state bans religious same sex marriage ceremonies. The freedom already exists; we don't want to change our laws for a new standard of gender segregated marriage.

.
Not Yet Equal wrote:
Another 14th century Serbian Slavonic "Office of the Same Sex Union", uniting two men or two women, had the couple lay their right hands on the Gospel while having a crucifix placed in their left hands. After kissing the Gospel, the couple were then required to kiss each other, after which the priest, having raised up the Eucharist, would give them both communion.
Hardly a same sex marriage ceremony; communion is a rite for all Christians. Marriage is male/female but everyone may have communion.

.
Not Yet Equal wrote:
Records of Christian same sex unions have been discovered in such diverse archives as those in the Vatican, in St. Petersburg, in Paris, in Istanbul and in the Sinai, covering a thousand-years from the 8th to the 18th century.
I don't dispute records of same sex unions; just point out that marriage is defined as male/female. These same sex unions prove marriage is a special institution and same sex couples don't cut the grade.

Life isn't fair; marriage's not for everyone.

“equality for ALL means ALL”

Since: Jan 07

Fort Lauderdale FL

#1926 Jan 27, 2013
Brian_G wrote:
<quoted text>Same sex unions have always existed; I support civil unions too.
Marriage has always been male/female in written law.
Obviously not always.

But if it was, that doesn't mean anything. Women not voting was always in written law, too. Until it wasn't. So?

“equality for ALL means ALL”

Since: Jan 07

Fort Lauderdale FL

#1927 Jan 27, 2013
Brian_G wrote:
.
<quoted text>Same sex civil unions are still legal today; I support civil unions and domestic partnerships as perfect compromise.
.
I will not compromise my marriage to placate your prejudices.

So it appears you have a problem.

“I Luv Carbon Dioxide”

Since: Dec 08

Location hidden

#1928 Jan 27, 2013
Tony C wrote:
Obviously not always. But if it was, that doesn't mean anything.
Natural law means better civil law. This is where we differ.

.
Tony C wrote:
Women not voting was always in written law, too. Until it wasn't. So?
There are written records of ancient debate and establishment of suffrage. Why no such debate or record of same sex marriage law?

Gender segregation is a poor standard for marriage; diversity is far better. Gender apartheid marriage means same sex couples change the population of married couples; harming all. Gender integration is good and discrimination, prejudice and separatism is bad. Real equality is individual right, not redefining cultural marriage laws.

“equality for ALL means ALL”

Since: Jan 07

Fort Lauderdale FL

#1929 Jan 27, 2013
Brian_G wrote:
<quoted text>Natural law means better civil law. This is where we differ.
.
<quoted text>There are written records of ancient debate and establishment of suffrage. Why no such debate or record of same sex marriage law?
Gender segregation is a poor standard for marriage; diversity is far better. Gender apartheid marriage means same sex couples change the population of married couples; harming all. Gender integration is good and discrimination, prejudice and separatism is bad. Real equality is individual right, not redefining cultural marriage laws.
These standards are all nonsense that you make up. These are not generally accepted practices, just your opinion. Like this one: "Natural law means better civil law." Really? Says who? I call bullpucky, because under "natural law," there would be very little monogamy. There would be much less civility.

This is all irrelevant to the discussion of same sex marriage and to its obvious inevitability.

It's here in several states, it's coming soon in all. You should start wrapping your head around it now, because you won't have a choice for long.

Since: Mar 07

The entire US of A

#1930 Jan 27, 2013
Brian_G wrote:
Not just the bible; every pre21st Century holy text defines marriage as male/female.
I note you added "pre" to the date. Could that be because even the religious folks have come to understand a simple truth about the folks God created as gay?

Fortunately, we live today, not in the past, where many churches also supported segregation, slavery, and woman being prevented form voting.

Since: Mar 07

The entire US of A

#1931 Jan 27, 2013
Brian_G wrote:
<quoted text>Natural law means better civil law.....
Brian, there is NO marriage in nature, other than as a human defined legal concept.

Since: Mar 07

The entire US of A

#1932 Jan 27, 2013
Brian_G wrote:
<quoted text>......... Gender apartheid marriage means same sex couples change the population of married couples; harming all..........
Your invention of silly new word combinations aside, you have NEVER been able to show that gay folks marrying can IN ANY WAY harm all humans. Or all straight people. Or all marriages. Or anyone alive on the Earth today.

Here, you are simply lying, because you KNOW that this is simply not the case.

It doesn't even harm YOU personally, unless you think that the very idea of gay families being legally recognized will damage your mind. And, if that's the case, you have some serious issues.

Just because you don't LIKE something, doesn't make it damaging to others. To pretend that it does, is delusional.

“I Luv Carbon Dioxide”

Since: Dec 08

Location hidden

#1933 Jan 27, 2013
I don't have to defend gender diversity marriage, it stands on its own merits. Keeping marriage as is, between one man and one woman, is the centrist, moderate position. Changing the definition of marriage or criminalizing same sex behaviors are the radical, extremist views.

Since: Jun 11

AOL

#1934 Jan 27, 2013
Tony C wrote:
<quoted text>
These standards are all nonsense that you make up. These are not generally accepted practices, just your opinion. Like this one: "Natural law means better civil law." Really? Says who? I call bullpucky, because under "natural law," there would be very little monogamy. There would be much less civility.
This is all irrelevant to the discussion of same sex marriage and to its obvious inevitability.
It's here in several states, it's coming soon in all. You should start wrapping your head around it now, because you won't have a choice for long.
"Natural Law" has a nice ring to it and sounds appealing. But exactly what it means is open to interpretation and flexibility. It takes many forms depending on which version you subscribe to.

While there are various explanations of natural law, one of the tenets that appears throughout the various versions, is the ethic of reciprocity and equality. That "no man require to reserve to himself any right, which he is not content should be reserved to every one of the rest".

So natural law requires treating all persons equally, as promised in our founding documents and required by the constitution.

All those opposed to treating others as they do themselves have to support their discrimination and prejudice, is pejorative terminology,(often misused) and fear mongering about the future of civilization, and of course, as Anita Bryant knew so well, unsupportable and vague fear about "the children".

“equality for ALL means ALL”

Since: Jan 07

Fort Lauderdale FL

#1935 Jan 27, 2013
Brian_G wrote:
I don't have to defend gender diversity marriage, it stands on its own merits. Keeping marriage as is, between one man and one woman, is the centrist, moderate position. Changing the definition of marriage or criminalizing same sex behaviors are the radical, extremist views.
LOL. You're right about one thing: you don't have to defend gender diversity marriage - because that's not even a thing. You're the only one playing with that ball. Have fun.

“Happiness comes through giving”

Since: Feb 08

Location hidden

#1936 Jan 27, 2013
Not Yet Equal wrote:
"If Jesus ever said anything about homosexuality, it is not recorded in the Bible, even mistranslated. He did, however, speak extensively on God's unconditional love. Yet instead of dwelling on biblical love, Christians have historically been more concerned with obscure passages of Levitical cleanliness codes and Paul's misunderstood comments in Romans. Instead of focusing on the incredible injustice and hatred demonstrated by Christians and others, tying to deny homosexuals even basic civil rights, people appear more concerned with the specific homosexual acts between consenting adults who are naturally have a homosexual orientation. As James B. Nelson notes, the Bible more clearly advocates a "love ethic" rather than a "sex ethic."
I Cor 6:9, no way refers to homosexuality. The original Greek word often quoted as sexual immorality, Paul used was "porneia" which means "a harlot for hire". In Corinth in the temples of Venus, the principal deity of Corinth, where Christians went to worship, a thousand public prostitutes were kept at public expense to glorify and act as surrogates for the fertility Gods. This sex with the pagan Gods is what Paul was talking about - fornication is an admitted mistranslation and has nothing to do with gays or singles sex. This rendering reflected the bias of the translators rather than an accurate translation of Paul's words to a culture of 2000 years ago worshipping pagan sex gods.
Romans 1:26-27 mentions homosexual acts performed by people who are clearly described as heterosexual. The men in the NT patriarchal culture exerted dominance not only over women, but over younger males as well. The nature of homosexual acts in the Bible are so very different from what we know as homosexuality today that the passages have no application to today's homosexuality. Such practices as in NT times simply no longer exist. Alleged references to homosexuality in I Corinthians and I Timothy are the inventions of anti-gay translators. They are not in the original Greek texts." (Rev.Dr. Mel White) The word "homosexual" wasn't even invented until 1869. When you see it in the bible, you know it is a modern mistranslation and misinterpretation of the original texts.
"What the Bible forbids is acts of lust, rape, idolatry, violation of religious purity obligations, or pederasty, but no condemnation of homosexuality in relationships of mutual respect and love. "On the other hand, the Bible pointedly celebrates instances of same-sex emotional intimacy, a fact often overlooked by fearful homophobic readers." James B. Nelson, Professor of Christian Ethics, United Theological Seminary
Yet Jesus told us:
John 13:34: A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another.
John 15:12 My command is this: Love each other as I have loved you.
John 15:17: This is my command: Love each other.
Matthew 7:1: "Do not judge, or you too will be judged.
Luke 6:37: "Do not judge, and you will not be judged. Do not condemn, and you will not be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven.
Matthew 7:12: So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets.
Meanwhile, the irrational prejudice promoted by some who claim to be Christians, continues to cause needless suffering and death, here and around the world.
Superb. Bravo!

“Happiness comes through giving”

Since: Feb 08

Location hidden

#1937 Jan 27, 2013
Brian_G wrote:
Not just the bible; every pre21st Century holy text defines marriage as male/female.
America is not a theocracy. "Holy" texts do not make law, nor should they ever be allowed to.
barry

Rainsville, AL

#1938 Jan 27, 2013
Tony C wrote:
<quoted text>
That's not what I asked you.
Which ones?
Where are the originals?
who said anything about originals. you didn't ask that question and i certainly wasn't talking about originals. however the preponderance of evidence when all the manuscripts are looked at would indicate what the originals said.

Since: Jan 12

Port Richey, FL

#1939 Jan 27, 2013
Brian_G wrote:
<quoted text>Rather, once every 4,000 years there is credible evidence of same sex marriage; the exception proves the rule.
Marriage has always been male/female.
.
<quoted text>Same sex civil unions are still legal today; I support civil unions and domestic partnerships as perfect compromise.
.
<quoted text>Marriage has always been male/female and when institutions have created no ceremonies, same sex unions aren't called marriage.
.
<quoted text>These 'same gender Christian sanctified unions' exist in Texas, no state bans religious same sex marriage ceremonies. The freedom already exists; we don't want to change our laws for a new standard of gender segregated marriage.
.
<quoted text>Hardly a same sex marriage ceremony; communion is a rite for all Christians. Marriage is male/female but everyone may have communion.
.
<quoted text>I don't dispute records of same sex unions; just point out that marriage is defined as male/female. These same sex unions prove marriage is a special institution and same sex couples don't cut the grade.
Life isn't fair; marriage's not for everyone.
maybe the government should declare marriage as a religious rite and under the separation church and state take away eleven hundred plus rights & respectability that go along with marriage,not to mention I'm getting a little sick & tired of paying extra taxes for every time one of you breeds and declares another dependent

Tell me when this thread is updated:

Subscribe Now Add to my Tracker

Add your comments below

Characters left: 4000

Please note by submitting this form you acknowledge that you have read the Terms of Service and the comment you are posting is in compliance with such terms. Be polite. Inappropriate posts may be removed by the moderator. Send us your feedback.

Gay/Lesbian Discussions

Title Updated Last By Comments
Why do STR8 guys 'hang out' all day in a GLBT f... 4 min Frankie Rizzo 14
Gay marriage cases await early Supreme Court de... 5 min Poof1 399
Is Polygamy the Next Gay Marriage? 9 min Frankie Rizzo 680
Ginsburg: Watch 6th Circuit on gay marriage 12 min eJohn 25
Catholic League to sit out St. Patrick's Day pa... 19 min eJohn 75
Judge restores part of Indiana gay marriage suit 35 min eJohn 1
Judge overturns California's ban on same-sex ma... (Aug '10) 40 min KiMare 200,949
Web filter lifts block on gay sitesWeb filter l... 2 hr Wondering 17
Gay marriage (Mar '13) 2 hr Cali Girl 2014 55,892
•••
Enter and win $5000
•••

Gay/Lesbian People Search

Addresses and phone numbers for FREE

•••