Church Leaders Vow Political Backlash if Gay Marriage Passes

Jan 7, 2013 | Posted by: roboblogger | Full story: NBC Chicago

Leaders of several Chicago-area African American churches on Monday urged state lawmakers to vote against pending legislation that would allow same-sex marriage in Illinois.

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Rainbow Kid

Alpharetta, GA

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#1896
Jan 25, 2013
 

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Tony C wrote:
<quoted text>
Who gave them the authority to presume they know that God meant and change it?
Fundamentalist redneck homophobes are self-anointed
.
In the referenced link; they admit they made it all up
http://www.christianpost.com/news/latest-niv-...

Since: Jun 11

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#1897
Jan 25, 2013
 

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barry wrote:
the "rev dr mel white", seriously?
apparently modern scholars either do not all agree or at least they don't all agree with you.
"I Cor 6:9, no way refers to homosexuality."
The latest version of the popular NIV Bible translation has had its verses on homosexuality reworded, making them clearer in denouncing the practice, a theologian who helped with the translation says.
These clarifications include the verse in 1 Corinthians 6:9, where the 1984 NIV version uses the phrase “homosexual offenders,” while the 2011 translation changes the phrase to "men who have sex with men."
"Romans 1:26-27 mentions homosexual acts performed by people who are clearly described as heterosexual. The men in the NT patriarchal culture exerted dominance not only over women, but over younger males as well. The nature of homosexual acts in the Bible are so very different from what we know as homosexuality today that the passages have no application to today's homosexuality. Such practices as in NT times simply no longer exist."
are you saying that there are no more homosexual men who "exert dominance" over younger males?
so the new niv puts it this way;
In Romans 1:26, the verse “even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones,” was changed to,“even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones.”
and we have to love your "obscure passages of Levitical cleanliness" comment. who was obscuring them?
Leviticus 18:22, the verse “Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman,” was changed to,“Do not have sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman.”
Read more at http://www.christianpost.com/news/latest-niv-...
There are many people who have devoted their lives to religious study who agree with Dr. Nelson that "What the Bible forbids is acts of lust, rape, idolatry, violation of religious purity obligations, or pederasty, but no condemnation of homosexuality in relationships of mutual respect and love." That's why I included more than just Jerry Falwell's ghost writer Rev. Dr. Mel White. Entire books have been written. At risk of duplication, I'll reference a few later.

1 Cor... Notice the retranslation relies on a modern mistranslation. Remember the word "homosexual" wasn't even invented till 1869. When you see it, you know you are seeing a modern translation. Remember the original Greek word often quoted as sexual immorality Paul used was "porneia" which means "a harlot for hire". Over the years, harlot for hire became mistranslated into, now in your bible, men who have sex with men. Don't you see the difference? The translator uses his own modern bias, not the original meaning of a harlot for hire.

Wile asserting dominance, with or without permission still occurs, it is not a standard practice, as it was for the Romans Paul was addressing. Pagan ritual orgies with temple prostitutes of both sexes was a common and accepted, even expected practice. You should also notice Paul was talking about lust, not establishing long term committed relationships built on mutual love and respect.

Leviticus is another mistranslation of the original text and context. And who follows the hundreds of rules there anyway? But I'll have to dig for the translation explanations. Again, you need to consider the context of pagan ritual fertility orgies of the day.

“equality for ALL means ALL”

Since: Jan 07

Fort Lauderdale FL

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#1898
Jan 25, 2013
 

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barry wrote:
<quoted text>so you don't know what you believe about God or Jesus?
you did say this;
"Frankly, I don't think God cares one way or the other about homosexual activity. He doesn't even care whether we love one another or we destroy one another. But Jesus did walk the earth to bring the message that man is better off when he loves fellow man and the world around him."
"you don't think God..."
"you don't believe that God..."
but "Jesus did walk the earth..."
however "it doesn't really matter if he was real..."
how do you have a conversation with an ideolog that doesn't know what he believes?
i will say this, Jesus said that he and the Father were one
hje said that he was the only way to God, he was the only truth, and the only life. that either makes him a liar or truly the son of God. therefor he can not be on the same level as "Buddha, Allah, or Vishnu"
You have no way of knowing what Jesus said for certain, so I suggest you temper that tone.

“equality for ALL means ALL”

Since: Jan 07

Fort Lauderdale FL

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#1899
Jan 25, 2013
 

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barry wrote:
<quoted text>that's funny, i was thinking the same thing about your sources. translating is a science not an opinion. it is what the word of God says. the original niv tried to change it and was challenged and condemned for it. apparently this new niv brings it back to what the manuscripts say.
Which manuscripts?

Since: Jun 11

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#1900
Jan 25, 2013
 

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"The New Testament and Homosexuality" Robin Scroggs, Prof of New Testament at Union Theological Seminary is a serious theologian and is favorable reviewed by many theologians. He is a happily married heterosexual with no personal bias. He includes cites from Boswell and expands further especially on pederasty and concludes there is nothing biblically wrong with homosexuality.

"What the Bible Really Says About Homosexuality" by Daniel Helminiask, PH.D., was ordained as a Catholic priest in 1967 and is incardinated in the Diocese of Pittsburgh. From 1981-1985 was Assoc Prof for Systematic Theology at Oblate School of Theology and earlier completed his Ph.D. in systematic theology at Boston College and Andover Newton Theological School. He concludes the Bible says absolutely nothing about homosexuality being sinful when you examine the actual Hebrew/Greek texts."

Baptist Rev Dr. William R. Stayton, Divinity degree from Andover Newtown Theological School and on faculty of LaSalle University's Grad program in Religious studies:- "There is nothing in the Bible regarding homosexual orientation. In fact, the Bible does not concern itself with sexual orientation. It does speak against gang rape, male prostitution for religious purposes, and pederasty. I lead bible study programs on this subject and am convinced that the Bible does not address the issue of a person's sexual orientation."

"God is not a Homophobe: An unbiased look at Homosexuality in the Bible" by Philo Thelos
http://www.trafford.com/4dcgi/view-item...
Several books already exist attempting to demonstrate that the Christian Bible does not, in fact, condemn consenting-adult homosexuality. But God is Not a Homophobe has a unique perspective in that the author has a lifetime of experience in pastoring hard-core fundamentalist churches. His former bitter opposition to all forms of homosexuality has given way to a rational, unbiased acceptance that the Bible says hardly anything about homosexuality, and what it does say cannot honestly be used to condemn consenting same-sex unions."

"Is The Homosexual My Neighbor?" by Latha Dawson Scanzoni This is the revised edition of the classic book that calls for Christians to reexamine their beliefs and attitudes toward homosexuals. The authors look at homosexuality from biblical, scientific and psychological perspectives. An excellent resource."
barry

Rainsville, AL

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#1903
Jan 25, 2013
 

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Not Yet Equal wrote:
<quoted text>
There are many people who have devoted their lives to religious study who agree with Dr. Nelson that "What the Bible forbids is acts of lust, rape, idolatry, violation of religious purity obligations, or pederasty, but no condemnation of homosexuality in relationships of mutual respect and love." That's why I included more than just Jerry Falwell's ghost writer Rev. Dr. Mel White. Entire books have been written. At risk of duplication, I'll reference a few later.
1 Cor... Notice the retranslation relies on a modern mistranslation. Remember the word "homosexual" wasn't even invented till 1869. When you see it, you know you are seeing a modern translation. Remember the original Greek word often quoted as sexual immorality Paul used was "porneia" which means "a harlot for hire". Over the years, harlot for hire became mistranslated into, now in your bible, men who have sex with men. Don't you see the difference? The translator uses his own modern bias, not the original meaning of a harlot for hire.
Wile asserting dominance, with or without permission still occurs, it is not a standard practice, as it was for the Romans Paul was addressing. Pagan ritual orgies with temple prostitutes of both sexes was a common and accepted, even expected practice. You should also notice Paul was talking about lust, not establishing long term committed relationships built on mutual love and respect.
Leviticus is another mistranslation of the original text and context. And who follows the hundreds of rules there anyway? But I'll have to dig for the translation explanations. Again, you need to consider the context of pagan ritual fertility orgies of the day.
well we already have the orgies all we lack is to popularly call them religious. it's coming.

funny how all those translators and scholars got it wrong down through the centuries. can't find an old translation anywhere that agrees with what you propose.
barry

Rainsville, AL

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#1904
Jan 25, 2013
 

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Tony C wrote:
<quoted text>
You have no way of knowing what Jesus said for certain, so I suggest you temper that tone.
if the Bible is the inspired word of God we do know what Jesus said. if it is not then you are right.
barry

Rainsville, AL

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#1905
Jan 25, 2013
 

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Tony C wrote:
<quoted text>
Which manuscripts?
there are hundreds even thousands of them, so if you don't know how Bibles are translated then perhaps you should not be commenting on it.

“equality for ALL means ALL”

Since: Jan 07

Fort Lauderdale FL

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#1906
Jan 25, 2013
 

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barry wrote:
<quoted text>if the Bible is the inspired word of God we do know what Jesus said. if it is not then you are right.
And again, the evidence is everywhere that it is not.

“equality for ALL means ALL”

Since: Jan 07

Fort Lauderdale FL

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#1907
Jan 25, 2013
 

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barry wrote:
<quoted text>there are hundreds even thousands of them, so if you don't know how Bibles are translated then perhaps you should not be commenting on it.
That's not what I asked you.

Which ones?

Where are the originals?

“equality for ALL means ALL”

Since: Jan 07

Fort Lauderdale FL

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#1908
Jan 25, 2013
 
Barry - have you ever taken a foreign language class?

Since: Jun 11

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#1909
Jan 25, 2013
 

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barry wrote:
<quoted text>well we already have the orgies all we lack is to popularly call them religious. it's coming.
funny how all those translators and scholars got it wrong down through the centuries. can't find an old translation anywhere that agrees with what you propose.
Have you checked the above references?

There are other books and sites and of course those who argue differently. Yet most will admit it all comes down to questionable interpretations of about 6 verses. Those 6 verses continue to be used to justify not only legal discrimination, but imprisonment, torture, and death in other parts of the world, just as they did here in the 50's and 60's, and continue to be used to justify harm.

Here is one of several sites that address the existence of gay people, including explanations of the mistranslated clobber passages:

http://www.gaychristian101.com/
AzAdam

Scottsdale, AZ

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#1910
Jan 25, 2013
 

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Oh my gawd. This thread never dies. Biblical apologetics till I puke. Shuuuuut up. Carry out your religious backlash threats to the greatest extent possible. You do anyway! The Bible is a crock of &$$@9%#!!

EVEN IF THE BIBLE WERE TRUE, the law is not based on the Bible! SURPRISE!!

“Together for 24, legal for 5”

Since: Sep 07

Littleton, NH

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#1911
Jan 25, 2013
 

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barry wrote:
<quoted text>so you don't know what you believe about God or Jesus?
you did say this;
"Frankly, I don't think God cares one way or the other about homosexual activity. He doesn't even care whether we love one another or we destroy one another. But Jesus did walk the earth to bring the message that man is better off when he loves fellow man and the world around him."
"you don't think God..."
"you don't believe that God..."
but "Jesus did walk the earth..."
however "it doesn't really matter if he was real..."
how do you have a conversation with an ideolog that doesn't know what he believes?
i will say this, Jesus said that he and the Father were one
hje said that he was the only way to God, he was the only truth, and the only life. that either makes him a liar or truly the son of God. therefor he can not be on the same level as "Buddha, Allah, or Vishnu"
You asked me about my beliefs, and I answered.

The only reason that I argue with you about your Bible is that you seem to understand it so poorly. You claim to fully comprehend a document that was written in a language that you clearly don't read. Even if it was written in English 4,000 years ago, you would not understand the language, idiom, nor cultural references. The Bible is full of cultural references that no Bible scholar understands.

Can you read Beowulf in its original English version? That book is written in its original form, not translated and transformed thousands of times over the years. Yet you couldn't even read the first sentence.

And you claim you know God through your reading of a book which you can't possibly comprehend.
Rainbow Kid

Alpharetta, GA

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#1913
Jan 26, 2013
 

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Jim Davis wrote:
<quoted text>The Bible is the most published, studied, and read book in world history. Positively no Bible translations, ancient Bible text, or Judeo-Christian tradition places in question the Bible's many irrefutable commands against all homosexual behavior. These commands and condemnations are direct and plain. No interpretation is needed:
:
Leviticus 18:22 - You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination.
Leviticus 20:13 - If there is a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act; they shall surely be put to death. Their blood guiltiness is upon them.
Romans 1:26-27 - For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural, and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error.
I Corinthians 6:9 (NIV)- Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.
I Timothy 1:8-11 (NASB)- "But we know that the Law is good, if one uses it lawfully, realizing the fact that law is not made for a righteous person, but for those who are lawless and rebellious, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers and immoral men and homosexuals and kidnappers and liars and perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to sound teaching, according to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, with which I have been entrusted."
You are quoting from three different 'bibles'
.
Which 'bible' is the real 'bible'?

Since: Jun 11

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#1914
Jan 26, 2013
 

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"If Jesus ever said anything about homosexuality, it is not recorded in the Bible, even mistranslated. He did, however, speak extensively on God's unconditional love. Yet instead of dwelling on biblical love, Christians have historically been more concerned with obscure passages of Levitical cleanliness codes and Paul's misunderstood comments in Romans. Instead of focusing on the incredible injustice and hatred demonstrated by Christians and others, tying to deny homosexuals even basic civil rights, people appear more concerned with the specific homosexual acts between consenting adults who are naturally have a homosexual orientation. As James B. Nelson notes, the Bible more clearly advocates a "love ethic" rather than a "sex ethic."

I Cor 6:9, no way refers to homosexuality. The original Greek word often quoted as sexual immorality, Paul used was "porneia" which means "a harlot for hire". In Corinth in the temples of Venus, the principal deity of Corinth, where Christians went to worship, a thousand public prostitutes were kept at public expense to glorify and act as surrogates for the fertility Gods. This sex with the pagan Gods is what Paul was talking about - fornication is an admitted mistranslation and has nothing to do with gays or singles sex. This rendering reflected the bias of the translators rather than an accurate translation of Paul's words to a culture of 2000 years ago worshipping pagan sex gods.

Romans 1:26-27 mentions homosexual acts performed by people who are clearly described as heterosexual. The men in the NT patriarchal culture exerted dominance not only over women, but over younger males as well. The nature of homosexual acts in the Bible are so very different from what we know as homosexuality today that the passages have no application to today's homosexuality. Such practices as in NT times simply no longer exist. Alleged references to homosexuality in I Corinthians and I Timothy are the inventions of anti-gay translators. They are not in the original Greek texts." (Rev.Dr. Mel White) The word "homosexual" wasn't even invented until 1869. When you see it in the bible, you know it is a modern mistranslation and misinterpretation of the original texts.

"What the Bible forbids is acts of lust, rape, idolatry, violation of religious purity obligations, or pederasty, but no condemnation of homosexuality in relationships of mutual respect and love. "On the other hand, the Bible pointedly celebrates instances of same-sex emotional intimacy, a fact often overlooked by fearful homophobic readers." James B. Nelson, Professor of Christian Ethics, United Theological Seminary

Yet Jesus told us:

John 13:34: A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another.

John 15:12 My command is this: Love each other as I have loved you.

John 15:17: This is my command: Love each other.

Matthew 7:1: "Do not judge, or you too will be judged.

Luke 6:37: "Do not judge, and you will not be judged. Do not condemn, and you will not be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven.

Matthew 7:12: So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets.

Meanwhile, the irrational prejudice promoted by some who claim to be Christians, continues to cause needless suffering and death, here and around the world.

Since: Mar 07

The entire US of A

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#1915
Jan 26, 2013
 

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Jim Davis wrote:
<quoted text>The Bible is the most published, studied, and read book in world history......
Yes, David, we know you have memorized the "clobber passages", but you do not understand what they mean, their context, or anything else about them.

The fact that you can't debate your own beliefs in a rational way shows that your personal beliefs are not based in fact or logic.

“I Luv Carbon Dioxide”

Since: Dec 08

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#1916
Jan 26, 2013
 

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Not just the bible; every pre21st Century holy text defines marriage as male/female.

“Together for 24, legal for 5”

Since: Sep 07

Littleton, NH

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#1917
Jan 26, 2013
 

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Brian_G wrote:
Not just the bible; every pre21st Century holy text defines marriage as male/female.
Proof?

“equality for ALL means ALL”

Since: Jan 07

Fort Lauderdale FL

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#1918
Jan 26, 2013
 

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Brian_G wrote:
Not just the bible; every pre21st Century holy text defines marriage as male/female.
Which bible?

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