Church Leaders Vow Political Backlash...

Church Leaders Vow Political Backlash if Gay Marriage Passes

There are 17554 comments on the NBC Chicago story from Jan 7, 2013, titled Church Leaders Vow Political Backlash if Gay Marriage Passes. In it, NBC Chicago reports that:

Leaders of several Chicago-area African American churches on Monday urged state lawmakers to vote against pending legislation that would allow same-sex marriage in Illinois.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at NBC Chicago.

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#11884 Oct 27, 2013
Brian_G wrote:
<quoted text>Slavery ended, citizenship for freed slaves and women's vote were all won by votes; not so for same sex marriage. There's never been a federal vote defining marriage as same sex; that's why same sex marriage is antidemocratic.
Legislative votes, NOT plebiscite.
Xavier Breath

Hoboken, NJ

#11885 Oct 27, 2013
Pietro Armando wrote:
<quoted text>
Did ya ever wonder why the Supreme Court never said same sex marriage is a fundamental right? Why even they, five justices actually, didn't go so far as to impose same sex marriage nationwide?
Now what are you going to do when a plural marriage family win the right to have their marriage(a) legally recognized, citing SSM as a precedent?
Um.... what precedent, retardo?
Xavier Breath

Hoboken, NJ

#11886 Oct 27, 2013
Pietro Armando wrote:
<quoted text>
So why hasn't ssm sustained it self, cross time, cross cultural, throughout history?
So why do you ask irrelevant questions?

Since: Mar 07

Location hidden

#11887 Oct 27, 2013
Brian_G wrote:
<quoted text>..... There's never been a federal vote defining marriage as same sex; that's why same sex marriage is antidemocratic.
So, as long as something has never been put to a federal vote, it is "anti-democratic"?

You are opening a can of worms with this one, Brian.
Xavier Breath

Hoboken, NJ

#11888 Oct 27, 2013
Quest wrote:
<quoted text>
So, as long as something has never been put to a federal vote, it is "anti-democratic"?
You are opening a can of worms with this one, Brian.
Yes. Let's vote a Brian's civil rights and see how he howls.

“No Headline available”

Since: Jan 08

Defiance, Ohio

#11889 Oct 27, 2013
Brian_G wrote:
There's never been a federal vote defining marriage as same sex; that's why same sex marriage is antidemocratic.
Marriage is a fundamental right. Don't take my word for it, take the word of the US Supreme Court.
http://www.afer.org/blog/video-14-supreme-cou...

"One's right to life, liberty, and property, to free speech, a free press, freedom of worship and assembly, and other fundamental rights may not be submitted to vote; they depend on the outcome of no elections."
West Virginia State Board of Education v. Barnette
http://www.law.cornell.edu/supct/html/histori...

Simply put, what you propose is undemocratic, because you are saying that citizens should be able to vote on the rights of fellow citizens. Would you be comfortable with me voting on whether or not you have free speech? Should I have a say in what religion you may worship, whether you can carry a gun, or whether the police really need to obtain a warrant before searching your house ans seizing your property? Of course not. The very suggestion is absurd.

Quit acting like a child.

Since: Mar 07

Location hidden

#11891 Oct 27, 2013
Bwana wrote:
Marriage is an act of religion and government has no jurisdiction on who can and can't get married. For them to get involved violates the separation of church and state.
For the purposes of taxation, government should only recognize a civil union that's accompanied by a contract signed by all participants in said contract.
Anything else violates the civil rights of all citizens.
No religion is required for a marriage to exist. And that contract you are talking about already exists. It's called a marriage LICENSE.

People are free to accompany the signing of that contract with any religious ceremony they choose, or none at all.

“Equality for ALL”

Since: Jul 10

Massachusetts

#11892 Oct 27, 2013
Bwana wrote:
Marriage is an act of religion and government has no jurisdiction on who can and can't get married. For them to get involved violates the separation of church and state.
For the purposes of taxation, government should only recognize a civil union that's accompanied by a contract signed by all participants in said contract.
Anything else violates the civil rights of all citizens.
Marriage 101, so pay attention.

There are TWO (2) types of marriage, that while similar and often overlapping, are very different.

Civil Marriage and Religious Marriage.

Religious Marriages are sacred.

Civil Marriages are legal.

Religions will perform their particular Rite of Marriage and then by signing the State's Civil Marriage License, join the couple in civil marriage. Two marriages. No state requires any religion to marry anyone. And any religion can choose to religiously marry anyone they choose. Many religions have been marrying same-sex couples religiously for years. They have, until recently and in only a few states, been unable to marry same-sex couples civilly.

There are some couples that do not take part in any religions' Rite of Marriage but go before a Justice of the Peace, court judge, or other state official that marries the couples civilly. No religious marriage.

Religious marriages grant zero state rights, benefits and responsibilities.

Only with a civil marriage does a couple get access to the 1000-plus state and federal rights, benefits and yes, responsibilities.

All those state constitutional laws and amendments that have been enacted have only stopped civil marriages from occurring. When California passed Prop 8 that denied marriage to same-sex couples, that only stopped the civil marriage as described above. I am sure that there were same-sex religious marriages (see above) entered into in California after Prop 8 was passed.

When Massachusetts, and now 13 other states and D.C., granted same-sex marriage equality, it only allowed the same-sex couples to marry civilly. In the almost 9 1/2 years of marriage equality in Massachusetts (May 17 is the anniversary) the Roman Catholic Church, and every other religion, has been required to marry ZERO (0) same-sex couples. But some religions have chosen as part of their dogma to extend their religious Rite of Marriage to same-sex couples.

While some gays and lesbians, and their supporters, battle within their religious faith for inclusion in their Rite of Marriage, they do so as coreligionists. The public fights are over the civil, state, definition of marriage.

Two separate institutions of marriage.
Xavier Breath

Hoboken, NJ

#11894 Oct 27, 2013
Bwana wrote:
Marriage is an act of religion and government has no jurisdiction on who can and can't get married. For them to get involved violates the separation of church and state.
For the purposes of taxation, government should only recognize a civil union that's accompanied by a contract signed by all participants in said contract.
Anything else violates the civil rights of all citizens.
WRONG.

Marriage is a civil contract that has NOTHING to do with religion.

You can have 500 church weddings, and if you don't have a license from the State, you are NOT legally married.
Xavier Breath

Hoboken, NJ

#11895 Oct 27, 2013
Bwana wrote:
<quoted text>
My point is simple. The government violates the separation of church and state by getting involved in who can and can't join in a union. All the government should recognize is a civil union, regardless of what two or more humans choose to be involved in that union.
If anyone wishes to be "married", that should be between them and their clergy.
Too bad your point isn't the way it works in the good ol' USA. No license from the State, NOT legally married.
Wondering

Tyngsboro, MA

#11896 Oct 27, 2013
Xavier Breath wrote:
<quoted text>
WRONG.
Marriage is a civil contract that has NOTHING to do with religion.
You can have 500 church weddings, and if you don't have a license from the State, you are NOT legally married.
Wrong. Legal marriage is a civil union. Marriage in a church is a sacrament.

The Sacrament of Marriage:
Marriage, a lifelong union between a man and a woman for procreation and mutual support, is a natural institution, but it is also one of the seven sacraments of the Catholic Church. It reflects the union of Jesus Christ and His Church.

A little research before you type might have you looking a little smarter than a shoe.
Bwana

Dallas, TX

#11898 Oct 27, 2013
Xavier Breath wrote:
<quoted text>Too bad your point isn't the way it works in the good ol' USA. No license from the State, NOT legally married.
I know HOW it currently works. It just violates the separation of church and state as marriage was originally an act of religion.

“CO2 is Gaseous Love”

Since: Dec 08

Home, sweet home.

#11899 Oct 27, 2013
Wondering wrote:
Wrong. Legal marriage is a civil union....
No, a civil union is a civil union, marriage is more.

OBAMA: I believe that marriage is the union between a man and a woman. Now, for me as a Christian — for me — for me as a Christian, it is also a sacred union. God’s in the mix.

http://www.clipsandcomment.com/2008/08/17/ful...

“A JOURNEY OF A THOUSAND MILES”

Since: Aug 08

MUST BEGIN WITH A SINGLE STEP!

#11900 Oct 27, 2013
Bwana wrote:
<quoted text>
I know HOW it currently works. It just violates the separation of church and state as marriage was originally an act of religion.
It MIGHT have been a religious ceremony at one time, but it hasn't been for at least the last 100 years......as soon as the State started issuing Marriage licenses....it STOPPED being strictly a religious act!!!

Even the Clergy must represent the State and County when making their pronouncement!!!

And IF you know how it currently works.....then you KNOW that NO violation of Church and State exists!!!

“A JOURNEY OF A THOUSAND MILES”

Since: Aug 08

MUST BEGIN WITH A SINGLE STEP!

#11901 Oct 27, 2013
Brian_G wrote:
<quoted text>No, a civil union is a civil union, marriage is more.
OBAMA: I believe that marriage is the union between a man and a woman. Now, for me as a Christian — for me — for me as a Christian, it is also a sacred union. God’s in the mix.
http://www.clipsandcomment.com/2008/08/17/ful...
Funny how you quote the President on something he no longer believes and never really did in the first place!!!

“CO2 is Gaseous Love”

Since: Dec 08

Home, sweet home.

#11902 Oct 27, 2013
snyper wrote:
Legislative votes, NOT plebiscite.
Right, votes to end slavery, give women the vote and civil rights. Note, there's never been a federal vote for same sex marriage and it came to America through court decree, not legislation.

That's why same sex marriage is antidemocratic as well as sex segregated.
Xavier Breath

Hoboken, NJ

#11903 Oct 27, 2013
Bwana wrote:
<quoted text>
I know HOW it currently works. It just violates the separation of church and state as marriage was originally an act of religion.
No, it wasn't. Marriage was around BEFORE religion.
Xavier Breath

Hoboken, NJ

#11904 Oct 27, 2013
Brian_G wrote:
<quoted text>Right, votes to end slavery, give women the vote and civil rights. Note, there's never been a federal vote for same sex marriage and it came to America through court decree, not legislation.
That's why same sex marriage is antidemocratic as well as sex segregated.
Who voted on YOUR marriage, Brian?
Wondering

Tyngsboro, MA

#11905 Oct 27, 2013
Xavier Breath wrote:
<quoted text>
Who voted on YOUR marriage, Brian?
Why would anyone vote on something as important as the marriage of one man to one women?
Xavier Breath

Hoboken, NJ

#11906 Oct 27, 2013
Wondering wrote:
<quoted text>
Why would anyone vote on something as important as the marriage of one man to one women?
Brian has been whining about gay marriage being anti-democratic. Get the connection? Voting... democracy... No, I didn't think you would.

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