Church Leaders Vow Political Backlash if Gay Marriage Passes

Jan 7, 2013 | Posted by: roboblogger | Full story: NBC Chicago

Leaders of several Chicago-area African American churches on Monday urged state lawmakers to vote against pending legislation that would allow same-sex marriage in Illinois.

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“I Luv Carbon Dioxide”

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#8396
Aug 18, 2013
 

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lides wrote:
It is idiotic to advocate for fellow citizens to have less than equal protection of the laws, imbecile. Wre you not an idiot, this would not need to be repeatedly explained to you.
I'm advocating for equal rights and I've given evidence homosexuals have always married under the same laws as everyone else. I'm advocating against the special right to sue your neighbor or state to have an activist judiciary rewrite marriage law instead of applying that law impartially to all.

Also note, other than WasteWater, nobody has agreed with advocating Russian gays threatened by Putin's fascist speech restrictions and violence be granted asylum in America. What's the matter with you all? Don't you care about murdered Russian gays? Is it more desirable to defame religion with blame than to face the fact Putin's antidemocratic and same sex marriage is less important than survival.

Reason number one for keeping marriage male/female; survival. The same sex marriage left really doesn't care if Gays are murdered in Russia as long as that doesn't hurt their political goals. I believe life is more important than same sex marriage; that's why I support current marriage law and oppose courts imposing their morality on the people without consent. I oppose suing citizens who refuse to facilitate same sex marriage, like that poor florist at Arlene's Flowers in Washington. And I oppose sitting around defaming political opponents why Russian gays are arrested, imprisoned and murdered. That's why I advocate asylum for Russian Gays: Survival - Reason Number One.

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#8397
Aug 18, 2013
 
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142412788...

Russian Gays Look to U.S. for Asylum

By PAUL SONNE

Artem Mitrofanov came to the U.S. with scars of growing up gay in Russia. Some were literal, such as the one on his wrist from the day he says a skinhead slashed him with a broken bottle. Others were internal, including pains in his kidney, which he says are the result of being beaten by assailants wielding religious icons who told him he should die.

till others were psychological. "If you're gay, that's it. It's like a mark on you," said Mr. Mitrofanov, who is 27 and from Moscow. His solution was to leave. He applied for asylum in the U.S. in 2009 and won refuge in 2010.

Still others were psychological. "If you're gay, that's it. It's like a mark on you," said Mr. Mitrofanov, who is 27 and from Moscow. His solution was to leave. He applied for asylum in the U.S. in 2009 and won refuge in 2010.

Such departures may become more common as Russia moves ahead with controversial antigay regulations, which have led some to call for a boycott of the 2014 Winter Olympics in Sochi. President Vladimir Putin in late June signed into law the so-called gay propaganda bill, which punishes those who publicly inform minors that "nontraditional relationships" are OK. Other new laws ban adoptions by same-sex couples and criminalize actions that insult the "religious feelings" of Russian believers.

Though there are no official statistics on the number of Russians seeking asylum in the U.S. on grounds of their sexual orientation, there is some suggestion applications could be on the rise.

Immigration Equality, the largest organization in the U.S. devoted to helping gay asylum seekers, has fielded an increasing number of inquiries from Russia. It received 63 inquiries from Russians in 2012, up from 35 in 2011. This year, there have been 32 inquires through mid-June. The group is currently handling 28 cases for Russians.

"We have had a handful of Russians per year, but over the last couple of years that number has really shot up," said Victoria Neilson, Immigration Equality's legal director. She said the group still handles the most asylum claims from Jamaica, where unlike Russia sexual relationships between men are illegal and punishable by up to a decade in prison....

“Together for 24, legal for 5”

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Littleton, NH

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#8398
Aug 18, 2013
 

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Brian: Thanks for posting the information we needed to show that you've earned the name Lyin' Brian.

“Vita e' Bella.”

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Aug 18, 2013
 

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woodtick57 wrote:
<quoted text>I thought i was very clear. it is the argument that everybody had the same right to marry of the same race that was used before , and yes, it was used in that case.
it failed then, it has failed now.
Actually, you're not. The opposition to interracial marriage was not that a mixed race couple's potential union didn't constitute marriage as it was understood, a legally recognized union of husband and wife, but whether they should be allowed legally, to marry. A man and a woman of different ethnic/racial backgrounds doesn't prevent them from accepting each other as "husband and wife". A same sex union is just that, same sex, and there is significant disagreement as whether or not that constitutes "marriage".

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Aug 18, 2013
 

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Rose Feratu wrote:
<quoted text>
Um.... has that disappeared?
In a way yes....otherwise why are those advocating legal marriage be redefined, and trying to rationalize that by arguing procreation and marriage aren't linked, or that the state has no interest in marriage as potentially procreative union of one man and one woman.

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St. Croix valley

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#8401
Aug 18, 2013
 

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Pietro Armando wrote:
<quoted text>
Actually, you're not. The opposition to interracial marriage was not that a mixed race couple's potential union didn't constitute marriage as it was understood, a legally recognized union of husband and wife, but whether they should be allowed legally, to marry. A man and a woman of different ethnic/racial backgrounds doesn't prevent them from accepting each other as "husband and wife". A same sex union is just that, same sex, and there is significant disagreement as whether or not that constitutes "marriage".
let me be very clear here, Petey...

i clearly referred to the argument that all have the same right to marry. that argument was, in fact, used in the anti interracial marriage issue. it failed then it is failing now when you use it.

what , exactly, aren't you clear about this?

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#8402
Aug 18, 2013
 

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Pietro Armando wrote:
<quoted text>
In a way yes....otherwise why are those advocating legal marriage be redefined, and trying to rationalize that by arguing procreation and marriage aren't linked, or that the state has no interest in marriage as potentially procreative union of one man and one woman.
it didn't disappear, Petey it was never reality. just your leave it to beaver wishes of what marriageand society is or was...

“Crusading Fundies r hilarious!”

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Aug 18, 2013
 

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Wondering wrote:
<quoted text>
It answers the question. What is vile and nasty?
To be clear, I don't care that you do it, I do care that you claim it's normal.
How anyone uses their body, provided it is consensual and not causing harm, is normal. The fact that you spend time thinking about how other people use their bodies is vile and nasty. You should seek help.

“Together for 24, legal for 5”

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Littleton, NH

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#8404
Aug 18, 2013
 
woodtick57 wrote:
<quoted text>in fact, it was the Russian Orthodox church that is the big driver behind this discrimination.
nice attempt at lying to support your prejudice...
At least those Christians share their god's "love" with many groups. http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/08/18/russian...

I think the world would be better with a little less than their version of love.

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Aug 18, 2013
 

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woodtick57 wrote:
<quoted text>it didn't disappear, Petey it was never reality. just your leave it to beaver wishes of what marriageand society is or was...
Gee Wally, it sure does look like marriage and having kids are connected....even back to the mid 1800's.

Let me guess Woody, you were delivered by the Forrest stork.

From U.S. law.

“[T]he first purpose of matrimony, by the laws of nature and society, is procreation.” Baker v. Baker, 13 Cal. 87, 103 (1859).“he procreation of children under the shield and sanction of the law” is one of the “two principal ends of marriage.” Sharon v. Sharon, 75 Cal. 1 (1888)(quoting Stewart on Marriage and Divorce, sec. 103.“Procreation, if not the sole, is at least an important, reason for the existence of the marriage relation.” Davis v. Davis, 106 A. 644, 645 (N.J. Ch. Div. 1919).“The great end of matrimony is ... the procreation of a progeny having a legal title to maintenance by the father.” Laudo v. Laudo, 197 N.Y.S. 396, 397 (App. Div. 1919); Poe v. Gerstein, 517 F.2d 787, 796 (5th Cir. 1975)(“[P]rocreation of offspring could be considered one of the major purposes of marriage....”); Singer v. Hara, 522 P.2d 1187, 1195 (Wash. App. 1974)(“[M]arriage exists as a protected legal institution primarily because of societal values associated with the propagation of the human race.”); Baker v. Nelson, 191 N.W.2d 185, 186 (Minn. 1971), appeal dismissed for want of a substantial federal question, 409 U.S. 810 (1972)(“The institution of marriage as a union of man and woman, uniquely involving the procreation and rearing of children within a family, is as old as the book of Genesis.”); Heup v. Heup, 172 N.W.2d 334, 336 (Wis. 1969)(“Having children is a primary purpose of marriage.”); Zoglio v. Zoglio, 157 A.2d 627, 628 (D.C. App. 1960)(“One of the primary purposes of matrimony is procreation.”); Frost v. Frost, 181 N.Y.S.2d 562, 563 (Supr. Ct. New York Co. 1958)(discussing “one of the primary purposes of marriage, to wit, the procreation of the human species.”); Ramon v. Ramon, 34 N.Y.S. 2d 100, 108 (Fam. Ct. Div. Richmond Co. 1942)(“The procreation of off-spring under the natural law being the object of marriage, its permanency is the foundation of the social order.”); Stegienko v. Stegienko, 295 N.W. 252, 254 (Mich. 1940)(stating that “procreation of children is one of the important ends of matrimony”); Gard v. Gard, 169 N.W. 908, 912 (Mich. 1918)(“It has been said in many of the cases cited that one of the great purposes of marriage is procreation.”); Lyon v. Barney, 132 Ill. App. 45, 50 (1907)(“[T]he procreating of the human species is regarded, at least theoretically, as the primary purpose of marriage ...”); Grover v. Zook, 87 P.638, 639 (Wash. 1906)(“One of the most important functions of wedlock is the procreation of children.”); Adams v. Howerton, 486 F. Supp. 1119, 1124 (C.D. Cal. 1980), aff’d 673 F.2d 1036 (9th Cir. 1982)(observing that a “state has a compelling interest in encouraging and fostering procreation of the race”);

A New Jersey court waxed lyrical on this point:“Lord Penzance has observed that the procreation of children is one of the ends of marriage. I do not hesitate to say that it is the most important object of matrimony, for without it the human race itself would perish from the earth.” Turney v. Avery, 113 A. 710, 710 (N.J. Ch. 1921)

Some evidence on the anthropological point:“Although the details of getting married – who chooses the mates, what are the ceremonies and exchanges, how old are the parties – vary from group to group, the principle of marriage is everywhere embodied in practice.... The unique trait of what is commonly called marriage is social recognition and approval ... of a couple’s engaging in sexual intercourse and bearing and rearing offspring.” Kingsley Davis (ed.), Contemporary Marriage: Comparative Perspectives on a Changing Institution (New York: Russell Sage Foundation)(1985).

“Vita e' Bella.”

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Aug 18, 2013
 

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woodtick57 wrote:
<quoted text>let me be very clear here, Petey...
i clearly referred to the argument that all have the same right to marry. that argument was, in fact, used in the anti interracial marriage issue. it failed then it is failing now when you use it.
what , exactly, aren't you clear about this?
You continue to ignore the obvious, race and gender are two different characteristics, the former has no bearing on the common legal, cultural, social, historical, and/or religious understanding of marriage as a monogamous union of husband and wife. While the latter requires a redefinition on the part of those who make the claim the prohibition is the same.

Remember interracial marriage did exist in various parts of the country, at various times. Legal SSM is less than 10 years old in this country.

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#8407
Aug 19, 2013
 
I'm advocating granting political asylum to Russian gays harmed by Putin's anti-free speech laws. Let American gays see what real bigotry looks like and they won't be so quick to demean the word by using it to label all the left's political opponents. Keeping marriage one man and one woman is care and respect for everyone while we cherish the laws that keep civilization working. Wait a few generations before leaping to radical new social formulas.

“These are a few.....”

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Aug 19, 2013
 

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Pietro Armando wrote:
<quoted text>
Gee Wally, it sure does look like marriage and having kids are connected....even back to the mid 1800's.
Let me guess Woody, you were delivered by the Forrest stork.
From U.S. law.
“[T]he first purpose of matrimony, by the laws of nature and society, is procreation.” Baker v. Baker, 13 Cal. 87, 103 (1859).“he procreation of children under the shield and sanction of the law” is one of the “two principal ends of marriage.” Sharon v. Sharon, 75 Cal. 1 (1888)(quoting Stewart on Marriage and Divorce, sec. 103.“Procreation, if not the sole, is at least an important, reason for the existence of the marriage relation.” Davis v. Davis, 106 A. 644, 645 (N.J. Ch. Div. 1919).“The great end of matrimony is ... the procreation of a progeny having a legal title to maintenance by the father.” Laudo v. Laudo, 197 N.Y.S. 396, 397 (App. Div. 1919); Poe v. Gerstein, 517 F.2d 787, 796 (5th Cir. 1975)(“[P]rocreation of offspring could be considered one of the major purposes of marriage....”); Singer v. Hara, 522 P.2d 1187, 1195 (Wash. App. 1974)(“[M]arriage exists as a protected legal institution primarily because of societal values associated with the propagation of the human race.”); Baker v. Nelson, 191 N.W.2d 185, 186 (Minn. 1971), appeal dismissed for want of a substantial federal question, 409 U.S. 810 (1972)(“The institution of marriage as a union of man and woman, uniquely involving the procreation and rearing of children within a family, is as old as the book of Genesis.”); Heup v. Heup, 172 N.W.2d 334, 336 (Wis. 1969)(“Having children is a primary purpose of marriage.”); Zoglio v. Zoglio, 157 A.2d 627, 628 (D.C. App. 1960)(“One of the primary purposes of matrimony is procreation.”); Frost v. Frost, 181 N.Y.S.2d 562, 563 (Supr. Ct. New York Co. 1958)(discussing “one of the primary purposes of marriage, to wit, the procreation of the human species.”); Ramon v. Ramon, 34 N.Y.S. 2d 100, 108 (Fam. Ct. Div. Richmond Co. 1942)(“The procreation of off-spring under the natural law being the object of marriage, its permanency is the foundation of the social order.”); Stegienko v. Stegienko, 295 N.W. 252, 254 (Mich. 1940)(stating that “procreation of children is one of the important ends of matrimony”); Gard v. Gard, 169 N.W. 908, 912 (Mich. 1918)(“It has been said in many of the cases cited that one of the great purposes of marriage is procreation.”); Lyon v. Barney, 132 Ill. App. 45, 50 (1907)(“[T]he procreating of the human species is regarded, at least theoretically, as the primary purpose of marriage ...”); Grover v. Zook, 87 P.638, 639 (Wash. 1906)(“One of the most important functions of wedlock is the procreation of children.”); Adams v. Howerton, 486 F. Supp. 1119, 1124 (C.D. Cal. 1980), aff’d 673 F.2d 1036 (9th Cir. 1982)(observing that a “state has a compelling interest in encouraging and fostering procreation of the race”);
A New Jersey court waxed lyrical on this point:“Lord Penzance has observed that the procreation of children is one of the ends of marriage. I do not hesitate to say that it is the most important object of matrimony, for without it the human race itself would perish from the earth.” Turney v. Avery, 113 A. 710, 710 (N.J. Ch. 1921)
Some evidence on the anthropological point:“Although the details of getting married – who chooses the mates, what are the ceremonies and exchanges, how old are the parties – vary from group to group, the principle of marriage is everywhere embodied in practice.... The unique trait of what is commonly called marriage is social recognition and approval ... of a couple’s engaging in sexual intercourse and bearing and rearing offspring.” Kingsley Davis (ed.), Contemporary Marriage: Comparative Perspectives on a Changing Institution (New York: Russell Sage Foundation)(1985).
Kinda blows their entire argument right off the platform.

I'll bet they ignore the facts and continue parroting their lame, empty rhetoric...

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#8409
Aug 19, 2013
 

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Brian_G wrote:
I'm advocating granting political asylum to Russian gays harmed by Putin's anti-free speech laws. Let American gays see what real bigotry looks like and they won't be so quick to demean the word by using it to label all the left's political opponents. Keeping marriage one man and one woman is care and respect for everyone while we cherish the laws that keep civilization working. Wait a few generations before leaping to radical new social formulas.
blah, blah, blah

gfy

:-)
heartandmind

Moline, IL

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#8410
Aug 19, 2013
 

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Pietro Armando wrote:
Pietro Armando wrote:
<quoted text>
No "group of people" were excluded to begin with. Both men and women have always been included in the recognition of marriage, it's their union which forms the definitional foundation of marriage. To remove one sex from that definition, would be to redefine marriage.
.
<quoted text>
There is also a church that performs plural marriage ceremonies too...are they being denied the right to marry couples too?
<quoted text>
What specifically am I wrong about?
since i don't have time for specifics....everything you post, literally.

good luck though.

“Crusading Fundies r hilarious!”

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Aug 19, 2013
 

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Brian_G wrote:
Let American gays see what real bigotry looks like
We already know what it looks like. It's exemplified every time you make a post.

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#8412
Aug 19, 2013
 
Brian_G wrote:
I'm advocating granting political asylum to Russian gays harmed by Putin's anti-free speech laws. Let American gays see what real bigotry looks like and they won't be so quick to demean the word by using it to label all the left's political opponents. Keeping marriage one man and one woman is care and respect for everyone while we cherish the laws that keep civilization working. Wait a few generations before leaping to radical new social formulas.
It is OK to be gay in Russia. Pride Parades and same sex marriage are out of the question. Seems like your kinda place pal.
Wondering

Tyngsboro, MA

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Aug 19, 2013
 

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Jonah1 wrote:
<quoted text>
How anyone uses their body, provided it is consensual and not causing harm, is normal.
Proof that homosexuality is a mental illness.
BTW, homosexual activity does cause harm.
http://www.cdc.gov/hiv/risk/gender/msm/index....

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Aug 19, 2013
 

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GrouchoMarxist wrote:
<quoted text>
Kinda blows their entire argument right off the platform.
I'll bet they ignore the facts and continue parroting their lame, empty rhetoric...
Exactly.

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WasteWater wrote:
It is OK to be gay in Russia. Pride Parades and same sex marriage are out of the question. Seems like your kinda place pal.
Not my kind of place, I advocate for free speech and freedom of association; not redefining marriage law for everyone without their consent.

Putin's Russia is homophobic and bigoted toward gays. I favor granting asylum in the USA so American gays will learn not to defame people who disagree on one issue but hold more fundamental values about life and human dignity.

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