Unfit for purpose and in denial: a church that has lost all authority

Mar 2, 2013 Full story: www.guardian.co.uk 19

Of all the theories advanced explaining why the Catholic priesthood attracts so many young gay men, this is the most valid: it is a direct consequence of the church's official attitude to homosexuality and the way that this has insinuated itself into the fabric of what we might call a traditional Catholic family with its roots in Ireland.

Full Story

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#1 Mar 2, 2013
A truly fine piece of writing!

From the article:

" ... The church has nothing to say to a child reared in these circumstances and who is beginning to encounter issues with his sexual identity. And so, by a perverse irony, the Catholic priesthood becomes a viable option for him. For what better way to submerge your "problem sexuality" than by committing yourself to a life of celibacy and a lifetime of reflection on the burden that God has deemed you must bear for your redemption and his glory?..."

" ... As a matter of urgency, the new pope must extend the gift of marriage to all priesthood candidates. Failure to do that will mean, in less than a generation, a priesthood comprised solely of social misfits and emotionally damaged refugees from reality ... "

This writer has a clue.
Rainbow Kid

Alpharetta, GA

#2 Mar 2, 2013
The Catholic Church's karma has run over its dogma

“We are all atheists”

Since: May 11

Lewes, DE

#3 Mar 3, 2013
I agree, Mr. McKenna has really put 2 + 2 together, hasn't he?

Decades ago, when I was a teenager (and years before I realized that I was gay), a church career as a minister was very appealing (in my case, not RCC however). I was being "called" into the ministry, or so I thought, and it was primarily because I knew I was different. Turns out, I was just gay.

Thank goodness I moved in a different direction in my life! But I suspect the same feelings still hold true for many other gay kids...

“ reality, what a concept”

Since: Nov 07

this one

#4 Mar 3, 2013
It's the undercurrent of Christian belief that ALL sexual acts, regardless of sex, species, or number of participants or purpose thereof are in and of themselves sinful. It's a holdover from its Judaic origins. Procreation is a necessary evil and therefore only acceptable under controlled circumstances. The act itself within those circumstances is still sinful, enjoy it at your own risk.

For those growing up to be Catholic, who are also finding themselves to be growing up to be gay, service to the Church is their only available option. Even if they know they aren't going to be able to live without the number one original sin in the Book, sex.
Tea Bag Residue Cleanup

Philadelphia, PA

#6 Mar 3, 2013
Rick in Kansas wrote:
It's the undercurrent of Christian belief that ALL sexual acts, regardless of sex, species, or number of participants or purpose thereof are in and of themselves sinful....Procreation is a necessary evil and therefore only acceptable under controlled circumstances.
Rather all sexuality and sex acts must be directed _only_ to the procreative, missionary position sex, in order to propagate the religious dogma or tribe.

Procreation (within a unit of social control) is the highest goal.

So I don't think all sex acts are regarded as evil. Just the ones that won't produce dues paying members....

“ reality, what a concept”

Since: Nov 07

this one

#7 Mar 4, 2013
Tea Bag Residue Cleanup wrote:
Rather all sexuality and sex acts must be directed _only_ to the procreative, missionary position sex, in order to propagate the religious dogma or tribe.
Procreation (within a unit of social control) is the highest goal.
So I don't think all sex acts are regarded as evil. Just the ones that won't produce dues paying members....
According to Paul, the highest goal for the Christian is to keep their legs crossed for Jesus, period. Procreative sex within the approved guidelines is only the acceptable fall back for those who cannot do without the sins of the flesh. Saying that it is better to marry than to burn is hardly an enthusiastic affirmation of the institution, it's a warning. Jesus was born without such sin and lived without it himself, if we are to follow in his footsteps, what aren't we supposed to do? God is our obsession, anything and everything else is worldly and secondary to our devotion to him.

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#8 Mar 4, 2013
Rick in Kansas wrote:
<quoted text>According to Paul, the highest goal for the Christian is to keep their legs crossed for Jesus, period. Procreative sex within the approved guidelines is only the acceptable fall back for those who cannot do without the sins of the flesh. Saying that it is better to marry than to burn is hardly an enthusiastic affirmation of the institution, it's a warning. Jesus was born without such sin and lived without it himself, if we are to follow in his footsteps, what aren't we supposed to do? God is our obsession, anything and everything else is worldly and secondary to our devotion to him.
That was Saul's Stoic bent combined with those elements in Platonic/Aristotelian which can best be described as manicheeistic.

More than a trace of Stoic and Manicheeist thought survives in protestant and RC Thomist thinking, just using a different vocabulary for the same principles. It is more obviously prevalent in Orthodoxy. Still it's finest flowering is to be found among sects descended from Calvinist Puritans and Separatists.
Barry Bali

Denpasar, Indonesia

#9 Mar 4, 2013
I've said it before and I'll say it again. We need some intensive R & D to develop a virus which will strike Jews, Christians, and Muslims the same way Myxomatosis struck rabbits in Australia in the late forties / early fifties. Even if we get only a 60% strike rate, we would all be better off without these socially destructive lunatics.

“ reality, what a concept”

Since: Nov 07

this one

#10 Mar 4, 2013
snyper wrote:
That was Saul's Stoic bent combined with those elements in Platonic/Aristotelian which can best be described as manicheeistic.
More than a trace of Stoic and Manicheeist thought survives in protestant and RC Thomist thinking, just using a different vocabulary for the same principles. It is more obviously prevalent in Orthodoxy. Still it's finest flowering is to be found among sects descended from Calvinist Puritans and Separatists.
For nearly 1500 years, you didn't need the Church's blessing to be married, but you did if you wanted to f*ck (for procreative, not recreational purposes). The Western Christian Church didn't make marriage a required sacrament until the 16th century. It was the requirement that if you wanted to be married, the Church had to bless it, that was one of the central issues which spurred the Reformation. The early separatists just brought along the same sexual hang ups that they had been brought up with as Catholics. Their main beefs were of the how many angels can dance on the head of a pin variety and just how happy the Church was at making it increasingly expensive to be a practicing Christian. Did you know, under the Puritans, in what became Massachusetts, only marriages performed by a civil official were recognized? Something else you couldn't do in a Puritan Church, get married.
Fitz

Roseville, MI

#11 Mar 4, 2013
What upsets the left is that the Catholic Church hyas succesfully weathered the storm of the sexual revolution without renouncing its beliefs.

Contemporary secularism and the sexual revolution is only 40 years old and its rotten fruits are everywhere to be seen. Unprecedented rates of divorce, venerial disease, illigetamacy, unchosen childlessness & marriageless lives, abortion and all the social pathologies that spring forth from it.

Those religions that abandon their elemental sexual ethic are dying, their numbers are miniscule and declining.

The Roman Catholic Church represents to these leftist sexual revolutionaries the single largest institutional presence that is capable of calling out these destructive trends and inspiring people to embrace chastity and restraint..

It is coming into a position were its steadfastness and principled stand will be rewarded as the baby boomer defense of this wantonly destructive revolution.

Atheist Silurist

London, UK

#13 Mar 4, 2013
Fitz wrote:
What upsets the left is that the Catholic Church hyas succesfully weathered the storm of the sexual revolution without renouncing its beliefs.
Contemporary secularism and the sexual revolution is only 40 years old and its rotten fruits are everywhere to be seen. Unprecedented rates of divorce, venerial disease, illigetamacy, unchosen childlessness & marriageless lives, abortion and all the social pathologies that spring forth from it.
Those religions that abandon their elemental sexual ethic are dying, their numbers are miniscule and declining.
The Roman Catholic Church represents to these leftist sexual revolutionaries the single largest institutional presence that is capable of calling out these destructive trends and inspiring people to embrace chastity and restraint..
It is coming into a position were its steadfastness and principled stand will be rewarded as the baby boomer defense of this wantonly destructive revolution.
The catholic church is in no position to dictate morality when it is the most filthy depraved institution on the planet. Its hypocrisy is demonstrates every day with a new scandal of sexual impropriety,usually with children.

"What upsets the left is that the Catholic Church hyas succesfully weathered the storm of the sexual revolution without renouncing its beliefs."

The shit-storm has just started.

People may not be renouncing their beliefs in christianity,but the belief in the church that would cover up the rape of their children
must be wearing thin.
Atheist Silurist

London, UK

#14 Mar 4, 2013
Fitz wrote:
What upsets the left is that the Catholic Church hyas succesfully weathered the storm of the sexual revolution without renouncing its beliefs.
Contemporary secularism and the sexual revolution is only 40 years old and its rotten fruits are everywhere to be seen. Unprecedented rates of divorce, venerial disease, illigetamacy, unchosen childlessness & marriageless lives, abortion and all the social pathologies that spring forth from it.
Those religions that abandon their elemental sexual ethic are dying, their numbers are miniscule and declining.
The Roman Catholic Church represents to these leftist sexual revolutionaries the single largest institutional presence that is capable of calling out these destructive trends and inspiring people to embrace chastity and restraint..
It is coming into a position were its steadfastness and principled stand will be rewarded as the baby boomer defense of this wantonly destructive revolution.
Vatican accused of cover up over Cardinal Keith O'Brien's 'sexual conduct'

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/eur...

Do you see the hypocrisy?

Should we take moral guidance from these people?

“ reality, what a concept”

Since: Nov 07

this one

#17 Mar 4, 2013
Fitz wrote:
What upsets the left is that the Catholic Church hyas succesfully weathered the storm of the sexual revolution without renouncing its beliefs.
No what irks the left is that the Catholic Church has become dictated from a self-absorbed center of power removed from reality and stifling independent thought within the Church. The Catholic Church and the Left in this and a number of other countries were on the same side for years. But the Vatican no longer seems to care about anything but its own position in the world and they want order.
Fitz wrote:
Contemporary secularism and the sexual revolution is only 40 years old and its rotten fruits are everywhere to be seen.
News Flash, secularism existed before Catholicism and there have been any number of sexual revolutions over the centuries.
Fitz wrote:
Unprecedented rates of divorce, venerial disease, illigetamacy, unchosen childlessness & marriageless lives, abortion and all the social pathologies that spring forth from it.
Societies always have their ills dear, if it isn't one thing, it's another, its what seems to happen when members of our species live in close proximity to one another.
Fitz wrote:
Those religions that abandon their elemental sexual ethic are dying, their numbers are miniscule and declining.
Religious beliefs come and they go, they live only as long as people choose to believe in them.
Fitz wrote:
The Roman Catholic Church represents to these leftist sexual revolutionaries the single largest institutional presence that is capable of calling out these destructive trends and inspiring people to embrace chastity and restraint..
No dear, we see the Catholic Church as the single worst purveyor of seriously f*cked up ideas on the planet.
Fitz wrote:
It is coming into a position were its steadfastness and principled stand will be rewarded as the baby boomer defense of this wantonly destructive revolution.
It's coming into a position where its abstinence and shortsightedness will only speed its demise in the relevancy of the Church in most people's lives. Its reward is its spiral into meaninglessness.
JrEsq

El Segundo, CA

#18 Mar 4, 2013
Most of the problems within the RCC are a direct result of infiltration by homosexuals.
The Oracle

UK

#19 Mar 5, 2013
JrEsq wrote:
Most of the problems within the RCC are a direct result of infiltration by homosexuals.

It's the same with all religions except Paganism. Paganism is the spiritual home of homosexuals. Paganism is also the spiritual home of Christianity.

All of the above is on record. I am not going to give it chapter and verse though, so I suggest if you'd like to know more, you Google it.
Steve

New York, NY

#20 Mar 5, 2013
I'm not a Catholic, and hence feel I have no right to either attack nor defend them. dont know why anyone else feels they do. If you agree with their dogma, then join them. If you dont, then stay away from them. Feel the same about any other religion. If a person doesnt want to have a blood transfusion, or eat bacon, or refuse any medical attention who am I to tell them they are nuts?

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#21 Mar 5, 2013
Steve wrote:
I'm not a Catholic, and hence feel I have no right to either attack nor defend them. dont know why anyone else feels they do. If you agree with their dogma, then join them. If you dont, then stay away from them. Feel the same about any other religion. If a person doesnt want to have a blood transfusion, or eat bacon, or refuse any medical attention who am I to tell them they are nuts?
Know how much they paid to pass Prop8 in California? Hawaii?

"stay away from them"????

They've been coming for US!
Tea Bag Residue Cleanup

Philadelphia, PA

#22 Mar 5, 2013
Steve wrote:
I'm not a Catholic, and hence feel I have no right to either attack nor defend them. dont know why anyone else feels they do. If you agree with their dogma, then join them. If you dont, then stay away from them. Feel the same about any other religion. If a person doesnt want to have a blood transfusion, or eat bacon, or refuse any medical attention who am I to tell them they are nuts?
If only the RCC hierarchy followed your unwanted advice.

And we have the right to criticize or mock or give hair and makeup tips to any institution we want.
aaron

New York, NY

#23 Mar 6, 2013
snyper wrote:
<quoted text>
Know how much they paid to pass Prop8 in California? Hawaii?
"stay away from them"????
They've been coming for US!
I have no issue with gay marriage, and no issue with those that oppose it. If they feel behloden to spend their money opposing gay equality, so be it. Going to happen anyway.

Tell me when this thread is updated:

Subscribe Now Add to my Tracker

Add your comments below

Characters left: 4000

Please note by submitting this form you acknowledge that you have read the Terms of Service and the comment you are posting is in compliance with such terms. Be polite. Inappropriate posts may be removed by the moderator. Send us your feedback.

Gay/Lesbian Discussions

Title Updated Last By Comments
Supreme Court allows gay marriage to proceed in... 14 min RalphB 51
LGBT baby boomers face tough retirement hurdles 18 min Timmy 1
Ukip candidate: 'Gay donkey tried to rape my ho... 23 min Frankie Rizzo 12
Colo. gay discrimination alleged over wedding cake (Jun '13) 41 min Respect71 5,780
Studies Show Voters Can Be Swayed on Gay Marria... 46 min Lover Boy 26
San Antonio GOP to consider whether non-discrim... 51 min NorCal Native 2
Supreme Court won't stop gay marriages in Florida 55 min NorCal Native 37
Next gay marriage fight: religious exemptions 1 hr Wondering 5,064
Anti-gay Tenn. billboard stirs religion debate 4 hr eyeful 2,933
More from around the web