Preamble to the U.S. Declaration of I...

Preamble to the U.S. Declaration of Independence, 1776

There are 36 comments on the www.elcivics.com story from Dec 27, 2012, titled Preamble to the U.S. Declaration of Independence, 1776. In it, www.elcivics.com reports that:

When, in the course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the laws of nature and of nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed, by their Creator, with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness. That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles, and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.

Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object, evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.

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“Headed toward the cliff”

Since: Nov 07

Tawas City, Michigan

#23 Dec 28, 2012
JrEsq wrote:
<quoted text>
What you label as government "oppression" is actually government acting in a responsible way, taking necessary steps to preseve society.
Society is in no way "preserved" by denying marriage to same-sex couples; only bigotry is preserved.

Denying or allowing marriage for same-sex couples has ZERO effect on whether opposite-sex couples will marry or reproduce. ZERO.

“Headed toward the cliff”

Since: Nov 07

Tawas City, Michigan

#24 Dec 28, 2012
snyper wrote:
<quoted text>
We have to give them a break. They were thinking new thoughts, a paradigm that hadn't existed yet.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v =4IZDV0JZ1d8XX
Oh I don't blame them; they were a product of their times. I'm actually amazed they went as far as they did, and left avenues open for future generations to fix the errors they knew they made or were likely to make.

The founders all knew slavery was contrary to the ideals of equality, but they also knew they could never get agreement from enough states without allowing slavery to exist.

Since: Jun 11

AOL

#25 Dec 28, 2012
I agree. I believe they knew they were restricted by the time in which they lived, and that is why they stated basic principals rather than carving out specific exceptions.

"They knew times can blind us to certain truths and later generations can see that laws once thought necessary and proper in fact serve only to oppress. As the Constitution endures, persons in every generation can invoke its principles in their own search for greater freedom." (Justice Kennedy in Lawrence.)
JrEsq

United States

#26 Dec 28, 2012
snyper wrote:
<quoted text>
Neither the Declaration nor the Constitution can "give" Rights.
Then what is it you homosexuals are demanding?
JrEsq

United States

#27 Dec 28, 2012
snyper wrote:
<quoted text>
Where is "preserve society" listed in the Preamble (mandate) to the Constitution ?
The Constitution was created to "preserve society". DUH!

DNF

“Judge less, Love more”

Since: Apr 07

Born in Newark Ohio

#28 Dec 28, 2012
JrEsq wrote:
The Declaration of Independence nowhere gives a group of people the right to destroy what it sought to create.
You make no sense. The Declaration of Independence was a call to destroy English Colonialism in what is now the U.S.

My point in posting this was to remind people that when a government becomes unresponsive to the people, then citizens have a right and yes even a duty to separate themselves from that government. Another point was to remind people that our Government must answer to the people. There is no reason gays and lesbians should be treated differently under the law than anyone else.

Look at the first sentence in the Declaration. That in itself shows you are incorrect.

I am not calling for an overthrow of the U.S. I am reminding people who don't like living under our Constitution that they are free to leave and find a place where they can live under the laws they prefer.

Many gays and lesbians left our country and moved to nations that treated them as equals (Canada for example). I would prefer they stayed and continued to press for equality, but the choice is theirs.

Those who want to establish a government based on their interpretation of Sacred Writings are free to leave as well. Just as the Mormons and Puritans did.

"Religious exemptions" has become popular among those who want special rights to ignore public law. I hope people who support that idea think it through more thoroughly. It's a two edged sword that cuts both ways.

As another poster pointed out, under religious exemption laws, people could refuse service from a waiter or waitress because they are Christian, Jew, Muslim whatever. Government workers could refuse to do the jobs they agreed to do based on religious discrimination.

This nation was founded on the principle of religious freedom but that doesn't mean people are free to discriminate because of another person's religious beliefs.

DNF

“Judge less, Love more”

Since: Apr 07

Born in Newark Ohio

#29 Dec 28, 2012
JrEsq wrote:
<quoted text>
Then what is it you homosexuals are demanding?
Being treated as equal citizens with the same rights, privileges and obligations of every other citizen. Just like blacks did in the 60's and women did in the early 20th Century.

I know that concept might be beyond your capacity to grasp, but it really isn't that complicated.

We are NOT trying to destroy anything. In fact when it comes to SSM we are trying to improve an already shaky institution. SSM encompasses all the same ideals found in any other marriage between two people. A commitment to creating a stable and lasting family unit.

DNF

“Judge less, Love more”

Since: Apr 07

Born in Newark Ohio

#30 Dec 28, 2012
JrEsq wrote:
<quoted text>
The Constitution was created to "preserve society". DUH!
Then I suggest you look at the preamble it contains:

"We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America."

Creating laws that disenfranchise other Citizens of Constitutional protections and guarantees certainly does not insure Domestic Tranquility. They don't promote the General Welfare and discriminatory laws like DOMA and DADT sure as hell do nothing to help secure these rights to ourselves and our posterity.

The ones doing the most harm to our society in this case are people like you. So stop trying to claim you're trying to "preserve " anything except bigotry and discrimination.

DNF

“Judge less, Love more”

Since: Apr 07

Born in Newark Ohio

#31 Dec 28, 2012
JrEsq wrote:
<quoted text>
The Constitution was created to "preserve society". DUH!
Another idea that has caused this country a huge amount of grief is the whole "States Rights" argument.

What is the point of joining the U.S. if you don't have to follow what's in the Constitution?(see Article 6)

Since: Jun 11

AOL

#32 Dec 28, 2012
JrEsq wrote:
<quoted text>
Then what is it you are demanding?
Equal treatment under the law as required by the constitution and promised in the founding documents.
WestCoaster

Los Angeles, CA

#33 Dec 28, 2012
My best friend and I are a lot alike. Both in our mid-fifties. Raised in a Northern industrial city by intact families. We both lettered in swimming in high school, went on the get college degrees and careers. We both pay taxes, vote, and enjoy our family and friends. He chose to marry a woman. That lasted 20 years. I chose to be with another man. THAT is the only real difference in the path of our lives. How does that (and that alone) make me less of a citizen in this country than him? If you didn't know my sexual orientation, you would not see a difference in us at all.

DNF

“Judge less, Love more”

Since: Apr 07

Born in Newark Ohio

#34 Dec 28, 2012
WestCoaster wrote:
My best friend and I are a lot alike. Both in our mid-fifties. Raised in a Northern industrial city by intact families. We both lettered in swimming in high school, went on the get college degrees and careers. We both pay taxes, vote, and enjoy our family and friends. He chose to marry a woman. That lasted 20 years. I chose to be with another man. THAT is the only real difference in the path of our lives. How does that (and that alone) make me less of a citizen in this country than him? If you didn't know my sexual orientation, you would not see a difference in us at all.
You make an excellent point.

I was just on the thread about the Annapolis trolley owner who has decided not to book weddings any longer. My initial reaction was to call for a boycott.

Then I realized a better way. Do what blacks did in the 60's with lunch counter sit ins.

Instead of boycotting, book a service with them, wait until a day or two before the event and then inform then you are booking a gay function.

When they refuse service they have to scramble to make up the lost income and in many States they now face fines under public accommodation laws.

Let's just see who they REALLY worship; God or the almighty dollar!

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#35 Dec 28, 2012
JrEsq wrote:
<quoted text>
Then what is it you homosexuals are demanding?
The Constitution guarantees Rights. It doesn't "give" them.

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#36 Dec 28, 2012
JrEsq wrote:
<quoted text>
The Constitution was created to "preserve society". DUH!
Where does it say that?

From what I remember, the founding subscribers did "ordain and establish this Constitution of the United States of America" in order to:

1. Form a more perfect Union
2. Establish Justice
3. Ensure domestic tranquility
4. Provide for the common defense
5. Promote the general welfare
and
6. Secure the blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our posterity

"Society" is what the people DO with the Liberty that is secured.

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#38 Dec 28, 2012
The Worlds Biggest Lie wrote:
<quoted text>
The constitution does not and has not guaranteed all rights for a very long time. Just look at the federal reserve act. TOTALLY UNCONSTITUTIONAL!
Congress, acting within it's Enumerated Powers, can create any agencies it determines are necessary for the Government to carry out it's mandates.

The Fed has never been declared "unconstitutional" by the SCOTUS.

STFU.

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#40 Dec 28, 2012
The Worlds Biggest Lie wrote:
<quoted text>
LOL! There are many things the powers that be up high do wrong. Blow me! Without your teeth.
ROTFLMAO!
Prove you have standing and work a case up through the courts.

Not even with "NoQ"s mouth.

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