Supreme Court Will Review DOMA, Prop ...

Supreme Court Will Review DOMA, Prop 8 Challenges

There are 1477 comments on the EDGE story from Dec 20, 2012, titled Supreme Court Will Review DOMA, Prop 8 Challenges. In it, EDGE reports that:

On December 7, marriage equality proponents heard the news they'd been waiting to hear: that the Supreme Court will review whether the Defense of Marriage Act and California's Proposition 8 violate the Equal Protection clause of the Constitution.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at EDGE.

“Equality for ALL”

Since: Jul 10

Massachusetts

#1442 Feb 2, 2013
Wondering wrote:
Who cares why you were bullied, it shouldn't have happened.
How do you prevent the bullying from occurring if you first do not know WHY someone is being bullied or are the bully? You can say don't taunt....don't belittle....don't punch, trip, beat with a baseball bat. But the bully is still a bully. The bully still hates, loathes, resents their victim of choice. The bully just knows they must be careful in their bullying. They mustn't get caught. Your method of education has done nothing to impart any type of learning on the part of the bully, just a modification of behaviour.

That you cannot see this makes you unfit to be in any position for the care and well-being of any child; in my opinion.
Wondering

Tyngsboro, MA

#1443 Feb 3, 2013
Tony C wrote:
<quoted text>
Bullying is only one issue.
The rest is classified as your personal problems. No one cares but you.
Wondering

Tyngsboro, MA

#1444 Feb 3, 2013
Tony C wrote:
<quoted text>
You really can't seem to follow a conversation.
More accurately, I won't be lead by an idiot.
Wondering

Tyngsboro, MA

#1445 Feb 3, 2013
Tony C wrote:
<quoted text>
It doesn't matter what they want.
There's your problem.
Wondering

Tyngsboro, MA

#1446 Feb 3, 2013
Tony C wrote:
<quoted text>
1. No, the problem is ignorance and misinformation about a segment of the population. Bullying is only a part of that.
2. You don't get to be prejudiced against gay people in a public school anymore.
3. The racists also thought it was against their religion to integrate black students in public schools. They got out of the public schools or they got over it. That is your fate as well.
1. Misinformation? Ignorance? Don't you mean you want to change people's minds about the facts. You want to do with with 5 year old kids because anyone older can see what you're trying to do.
2. I personally never was prejudiced. You don't get special treatment.
3. There you go with the race issues again. Irrelevant.
Wondering

Tyngsboro, MA

#1447 Feb 3, 2013
DaveinMass wrote:
<quoted text>
How do you prevent the bullying from occurring if you first do not know WHY someone is being bullied or are the bully? You can say don't taunt....don't belittle....don't punch, trip, beat with a baseball bat. But the bully is still a bully. The bully still hates, loathes, resents their victim of choice. The bully just knows they must be careful in their bullying. They mustn't get caught. Your method of education has done nothing to impart any type of learning on the part of the bully, just a modification of behaviour.
That you cannot see this makes you unfit to be in any position for the care and well-being of any child; in my opinion.
You get dumber by the minute. Bullies do it because they can. They think it's cool. They feel empowered, superior. Telling 5 year old kids that "gays exist" won't stop it. The fact is that some people will be bullies, there is nothing you or anyone can do to change that. Attempting to get gay literature and discussion time into elementary schools has nothing to do with bullying toward gays and everything to do with bullying by gays. You want to force kids to think your way about you in some ridiculous attempt to win them over and have them accept homosexuality. What you are doing is taking families that never gave it any thought and forcing them to think about it, that isn't likely to produce a positive outcome for you.

"The bully still hates, loathes, resents their victim of choice."
Most often the bully doesn't even know their victim of choice and most often the victim isn't gay and doesn't have gay parents. You are nothing special.

“equality for ALL means ALL”

Since: Jan 07

Fort Lauderdale FL

#1448 Feb 3, 2013
Wondering wrote:
<quoted text>
There's your problem.
Actually, that's your problem.

And you can keep whining about it like a little bitch, or you can put your kids in private school. But you're not going to get public schools to ignore the fact that gay people exist and are equal to everyone else.

Poor you.

Since: Mar 07

Location hidden

#1449 Feb 3, 2013
Wondering wrote:
<quoted text>
........ Attempting to get gay literature and discussion time into elementary schools has nothing to do with bullying toward gays and everything to do with bullying by gays....
Teaching kids that some folks are attracted to the same gender and even marry them is bullying? Teaching kids not respect the families of others is bullying?

How does that work, exactly?

Isn't it the simple truth?

“equality for ALL means ALL”

Since: Jan 07

Fort Lauderdale FL

#1450 Feb 3, 2013
Wondering wrote:
<quoted text>
1. Misinformation? Ignorance? Don't you mean you want to change people's minds about the facts. You want to do with with 5 year old kids because anyone older can see what you're trying to do.
2. I personally never was prejudiced. You don't get special treatment.
3. There you go with the race issues again. Irrelevant.
Maybe you should go back to school because you have no debating skills. While there, you'll learn that gay people are no different from anyone else.

Yes, you are ignorant and full of misinformation. That is a fact. It starts with fiver year olds because reality is they will become aware of gay people if they aren't already. Somebody in the class is going to talk about watching reruns of "Will & Grace" or the fact that Dumbledore is gay. You can't hide from it anymore. You can only respond one way or another. We as a society have already decided (or are finishing that up) how we, the public, are going to respond to that. We are going to educate kids that some people are gay and they have all the same rights as anyone else. That's not a sex discussion. Those who have a different response for their children are going to either have to put their kids in private schools, or homeschool, or simply contradict their kid's teacher. I'm sure some morons already contradict the kid's teacher about evolution.

In fact, that's the perfect analogy. You have a right to your religion and opinion but not to the facts. For those to whom creationism is so important that they don't want their kids to learn about evolution (even though it's the truth) we as a society have no obligation to give their religion equal footing with science. We teach science in public schools. Those parents make a judgment call: is it worth the money to put their kids in private schools to make sure they learn THEIR opinion about evolution vs creationism. That's not religious discrimination. Neither is this.

Now grow up and face the fact that this country has come around to being fair to gay people, and that gay people will not allow ourselves to be marginalized to support your prejudice.

You can't win. You can only whine and bitch. And we can ignore you (and shame you.) Your grandchildren undoubtedly will directly be taught in school to be ashamed of people in the 2010's who still clung to prejudice about gay Americans. Just as I was taught in school in the mid-70's to be ashamed of the racists who fought against black civil rights in the 60's.

Since: Mar 07

Location hidden

#1451 Feb 3, 2013
Wondering wrote:
<quoted text>
1. Misinformation? Ignorance? Don't you mean you want to change people's minds about the facts...
Actually, we want them to HAVE the facts. Pretending the facts don't exist doesn't help anyone, especially kids.

“equality for ALL means ALL”

Since: Jan 07

Fort Lauderdale FL

#1452 Feb 3, 2013
Wondering wrote:
<quoted text>
You get dumber by the minute. Bullies do it because they can. They think it's cool. They feel empowered, superior. Telling 5 year old kids that "gays exist" won't stop it. The fact is that some people will be bullies, there is nothing you or anyone can do to change that. Attempting to get gay literature and discussion time into elementary schools has nothing to do with bullying toward gays and everything to do with bullying by gays. You want to force kids to think your way about you in some ridiculous attempt to win them over and have them accept homosexuality. What you are doing is taking families that never gave it any thought and forcing them to think about it, that isn't likely to produce a positive outcome for you.
"The bully still hates, loathes, resents their victim of choice."
Most often the bully doesn't even know their victim of choice and most often the victim isn't gay and doesn't have gay parents. You are nothing special.
You are so primitive.

Of course it will help, not 100% at first, but that's how it starts. Like I said, I grew up learning that racists were bad, that the South was wrong, and that black people were equal and America is a melting pot. Now, there was still lingering racism all around. But now, a generation later, kids of parents our age grow up with a much more positive message about black people and far less racism (even the unintended subconscious kind.)

And that's how it goes with this. This is how society fixes itself and combats prejudice. It starts with educating the next generation of kids, and we already know that has happened - polling shows overwhelming support for gay rights among younger people today. That trajectory will continue until it is like racism is today - not gone, but not acceptable in public. That's probably the best we can hope for in my lifetime.

You're swimming against the current with no end in sight, and the current can only get stronger. You're not going to start convincing young people that gay people are bad or whatever. Those days are over.
Wondering

Tyngsboro, MA

#1453 Feb 3, 2013
Quest wrote:
<quoted text>
Teaching kids that some folks are attracted to the same gender and even marry them is bullying? Teaching kids not respect the families of others is bullying?
How does that work, exactly?
Isn't it the simple truth?
The truth can be a powerful tool for a bully. To address your question on how gays are the bullies, it should be obvious. Let's use the Parkers as an example.

Homosexuality to them is not only abnormal, it goes against their religion and their value system. Forcing this material on families, like the Parkers, is an attempt to have their children go against their religion and their values. That's bullying. In effect, the school is telling their children that they are wrong, their religion is a joke and their values are garbage. You may not agree with their value system but you should respect it. You know, to each their own. Live and let live. Homosexuality, transgenderizm and bisexuality play a roll in the lives of a tiny minority in this country. While I believe that these people should get the same general respect as anyone else I don't believe that they should be trying to force their morals and values onto those that reject them. People like the Parkers don't go around seeking out LGBT people so that they can give them a bad time, just the opposite is what happened.
Wondering

Tyngsboro, MA

#1454 Feb 3, 2013
Tony C wrote:
Now, there was still lingering racism all around. But now, a generation later, kids of parents our age grow up with a much more positive message about black people and far less racism.
Unfortunately, racism is still alive and well.
http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/hate-cri...
Wondering

Tyngsboro, MA

#1455 Feb 3, 2013
Tony C wrote:
1. In fact, that's the perfect analogy. You have a right to your religion and opinion but not to the facts.
2. For those to whom creationism is so important that they don't want their kids to learn about evolution (even though it's the truth) we as a society have no obligation to give their religion equal footing with science. We teach science in public schools.
1. Who's facts?
2. Academy of Notre Dame, a Catholic private, co-educational Pre-K through 5th grade elementary school and 6th through 8th grade middle school, and a college-preparatory high school for young women.
Science education is unit-study centered, with hands-on opportunities to ensure students understand the scientific method and build foundational knowledge in both Life and Earth Sciences, as well as Engineering. Annual Science Fair Projects enable students to develop in-depth studies.
Wondering

Tyngsboro, MA

#1456 Feb 3, 2013
Quest wrote:
<quoted text>
Actually, we want them to HAVE the facts.
Your facts, not our facts. Our kids are none of your business.
Wondering

Tyngsboro, MA

#1457 Feb 3, 2013
Tony C wrote:
You're not going to start convincing young people that gay people are bad or whatever. Those days are over.
Things really haven't changed at all. Young people are indifferent. They don't care. You seem to have difficulty distinguishing between indifference and support. Those days never changed.

“equality for ALL means ALL”

Since: Jan 07

Fort Lauderdale FL

#1458 Feb 3, 2013
Wondering wrote:
<quoted text>
The truth can be a powerful tool for a bully. To address your question on how gays are the bullies, it should be obvious. Let's use the Parkers as an example.
Homosexuality to them is not only abnormal,
That is no longer a permissible attitude in public.

Society has no obligation to coddle people with that wrong attitude.

This is not new. We went through this with racism. The parallels are obvious and undeniable. White people who were prejudiced against black people felt JUST like the Parkers and JUST like you. They thought their rights and religion were being infringed upon because they were no longer allowed to discriminate against black people.

But society did not coddle them. We integrated the schools. We passed laws guaranteeing civil rights. We did not tolerate anti-black behavior in schools (at least not on paper) and it got better from there.

People with attitudes like yours and the Parkers, but directed towards black people rather than gay people, were forced to move their kids to private or religious schools, or homeschool (which was not as common back then) or just deal with it. Or even better - LEARN.

You're wrong. You're being corrected. Take the correction or move your kids. There is no other option. You can't fight against the tide of civil rights and equality in America.

“Equality for ALL”

Since: Jul 10

Massachusetts

#1459 Feb 3, 2013
Wondering wrote:
Unfortunately, racism is still alive and well.
http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/hate-cri...
But is racism okay? How do we as a society fight against it to reduce it?

What would YOU DO to combat racism? I really want to know.

“Equality for ALL”

Since: Jul 10

Massachusetts

#1460 Feb 3, 2013
Wondering wrote:
1. Who's facts?
2. Academy of Notre Dame, a Catholic private, co-educational Pre-K through 5th grade elementary school and 6th through 8th grade middle school, and a college-preparatory high school for young women.
Science education is unit-study centered, with hands-on opportunities to ensure students understand the scientific method and build foundational knowledge in both Life and Earth Sciences, as well as Engineering. Annual Science Fair Projects enable students to develop in-depth studies.
But what is apparently lost on you is that the parents that want that type of education OPTED OUT of the traditional public school environment to ensure their child was taught according to their wishes.

“equality for ALL means ALL”

Since: Jan 07

Fort Lauderdale FL

#1461 Feb 3, 2013
Wondering wrote:
<quoted text>
Unfortunately, racism is still alive and well.
http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/hate-cri...
Did you see where I used the words "far less" racism and not "zero" racism? I choose my words carefully. Please read them carefully.

It is nothing compared to what it was in the 70's. It was still blatant in the 70's. Standards have changed. It is no longer acceptable in public, on TV, radio, etc. People who express racist attitudes suffer decreased popularity, loss of jobs, etc.

Perhaps the biggest change is it isn't even acceptable any longer at private gatherings in many cases. Most of the most severe racists have long since died off, and most of the people alive today have re-trained themselves, if not only their behavior.

There is no flipping a switch. It's a process.

Although attitudes towards gay rights are moving exceptionally quickly in our favor. Barack Obama coming out in favor of gay marriage had a huge influence and really moved things along (and they were already moving before that.)

Depending on how the Supreme Court rules on the 2 cases in June, this whole discussion could be moot.

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