California's 'gay conversion' law fac...

California's 'gay conversion' law faces two federal lawsuits

There are 162 comments on the Ledger-Enquirer.com story from Dec 17, 2012, titled California's 'gay conversion' law faces two federal lawsuits. In it, Ledger-Enquirer.com reports that:

He is 14, the son of a Muslim father and a Catholic mother, and is being raised in a household where the family rejects the notion that it is all right to be gay.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Ledger-Enquirer.com.

Jane Dough

Barre, VT

#42 Dec 20, 2012
Jane Pudenda wrote:
<quoted text>Really? You think 3 is "a lot?"
Your desperation is showing again.
Prove they came from me. Go ahead.
wow, a new name....
just how many names do you use to judge posts anyway?

so we have you admitting to using the icons, admitting to using other names, and once again I caught you lurking...

“Educating the uneducated”

Since: Aug 12

Montreal

#43 Dec 20, 2012
Jane Dough wrote:
<quoted text>
wow, a new name....
just how many names do you use to judge posts anyway?
so we have you admitting to using the icons, admitting to using other names, and once again I caught you lurking...
This one moves on quickly, now he wants Mona all to himself.
Jane Dough

Barre, VT

#44 Dec 20, 2012
Lacez wrote:
<quoted text>
This one moves on quickly, now he wants Mona all to himself.
I learned something from Jeff the other day....

Is it right you would be called a "twink"?
Jane Pudenda

West New York, NJ

#45 Dec 20, 2012
Jane Dough wrote:
<quoted text>
wow, a new name....
just how many names do you use to judge posts anyway?
so we have you admitting to using the icons, admitting to using other names, and once again I caught you lurking...
Where did I admit to using icons?

You can't even keep your lies straight, you petty, neurotic freak.
Jane Pudenda

West New York, NJ

#47 Dec 20, 2012
Jane Dough wrote:
<quoted text>
wow, a new name....
just how many names do you use to judge posts anyway?
so we have you admitting to using the icons, admitting to using other names, and once again I caught you lurking...
Hobart? Hobart Popick. Is that you?
Fitz

Roseville, MI

#48 Dec 20, 2012
Homosexual activists and their allies are so ignorant and unprincipled that they dont realize when there shooting themselves in the foot.

These lawsuits are brought under the fundemental right of parents to educate and raise their children (Pierce versus Society of Sisters)

Any number of states could ban "gay affirmation therapy" - and this same right and legal argument could properly be used to stop such laws as an infringment on the parents right to their own childrens upbringing.

Think a little bit before you declare everything your not comfortable letting other people do illegal... When it comes to parents and their children society has long recognized the rights of parents over fashionable gay theroists and bad medicine.

“I Am No One Else”

Since: Apr 12

Seattle

#49 Dec 20, 2012
Fitz wrote:
Homosexual activists and their allies are so ignorant and unprincipled that they dont realize when there shooting themselves in the foot.
These lawsuits are brought under the fundemental right of parents to educate and raise their children (Pierce versus Society of Sisters)
Any number of states could ban "gay affirmation therapy" - and this same right and legal argument could properly be used to stop such laws as an infringment on the parents right to their own childrens upbringing.
Think a little bit before you declare everything your not comfortable letting other people do illegal... When it comes to parents and their children society has long recognized the rights of parents over fashionable gay theroists and bad medicine.
Your right to raise your kids ends when you cause them harm or refuse to ensure they have a future. Your children are not your possessions, they are human beings.

“ reality, what a concept”

Since: Nov 07

this one

#50 Dec 20, 2012
Fitz wrote:
Homosexual activists and their allies are so ignorant and unprincipled that they dont realize when there shooting themselves in the foot.
These lawsuits are brought under the fundemental right of parents to educate and raise their children (Pierce versus Society of Sisters)
Any number of states could ban "gay affirmation therapy" - and this same right and legal argument could properly be used to stop such laws as an infringment on the parents right to their own childrens upbringing.
Think a little bit before you declare everything your not comfortable letting other people do illegal... When it comes to parents and their children society has long recognized the rights of parents over fashionable gay theroists and bad medicine.
Sorry sug, but not even the Sisters of the Holy Names of Jesus and Mary are going to be able to save this case. While parents have a fundamental right to educate and raise their children, the state has an interest in protecting those children from harm and we are talking about therapies that are known to be obscenely ineffective and harmful for adults who go through it voluntarily, the sum total of what published science has on its safety and efficacy in children can be summed up in one word, nothing. The pray away the gay set and the frauds over at NARTH are about to put themselves out of business the hard way. When the truth comes out as to what these monsters have been up to and what supposedly loving parents don't know what is being done to their kids, it's over. They will be lucky to not end up with a nationwide ban on the practice for both minors and adults as a result of how bad these lawsuits are going to blow up on them. If you are on the payroll of any of these groups, I'd highly suggest updating your resume now and leave you last place of employment off it.

“Headed toward the cliff”

Since: Nov 07

Tawas City, Michigan

#51 Dec 20, 2012
Fitz wrote:
Homosexual activists and their allies are so ignorant and unprincipled that they dont realize when there shooting themselves in the foot.
These lawsuits are brought under the fundemental right of parents to educate and raise their children (Pierce versus Society of Sisters)
Any number of states could ban "gay affirmation therapy" - and this same right and legal argument could properly be used to stop such laws as an infringment on the parents right to their own childrens upbringing.
Think a little bit before you declare everything your not comfortable letting other people do illegal... When it comes to parents and their children society has long recognized the rights of parents over fashionable gay theroists and bad medicine.
Parents don't have the right to harm their children as part of that "upbringing". And the overwhelming consensus among mental health professionals is that "gay conversion" therapy causes harm.

You lose AGAIN!
Fitz

Roseville, MI

#52 Dec 20, 2012
Rick in Kansas wrote:
<quoted text>Sorry sug, but not even the Sisters of the Holy Names of Jesus and Mary are going to be able to save this case. While parents have a fundamental right to educate and raise their children, the state has an interest in protecting those children from harm and we are talking about therapies that are known to be obscenely ineffective and harmful for adults who go through it voluntarily, the sum total of what published science has on its safety and efficacy in children can be summed up in one word, nothing. The pray away the gay set and the frauds over at NARTH are about to put themselves out of business the hard way. When the truth comes out as to what these monsters have been up to and what supposedly loving parents don't know what is being done to their kids, it's over. They will be lucky to not end up with a nationwide ban on the practice for both minors and adults as a result of how bad these lawsuits are going to blow up on them. If you are on the payroll of any of these groups, I'd highly suggest updating your resume now and leave you last place of employment off it.
Im afraid this law says nothing about "pray away the gay" nor pin point specific thearapies you find abusive. There is no single "practice" that is being forbidden... as such it can easily be declared overly broad and therefore and infringment on the rights of the parents over their childrens upbringing.

You would think homosexuals of all people would understand the shifting nature of medical opinion its perpencity to be in & out of fashion.

For a group that wants to get "married" you would think they would have more respect for parental rights.

“Headed toward the cliff”

Since: Nov 07

Tawas City, Michigan

#53 Dec 20, 2012
Fitz wrote:
<quoted text>
Im afraid this law says nothing about "pray away the gay" nor pin point specific thearapies you find abusive. There is no single "practice" that is being forbidden... as such it can easily be declared overly broad and therefore and infringment on the rights of the parents over their childrens upbringing.
You would think homosexuals of all people would understand the shifting nature of medical opinion its perpencity to be in & out of fashion.
For a group that wants to get "married" you would think they would have more respect for parental rights.
We know parents don't have the right to harm their children, even in the name of religion.
Fitz

Roseville, MI

#54 Dec 20, 2012
WeTheSheeple wrote:
<quoted text>
We know parents don't have the right to harm their children, even in the name of religion.
Obviously the weasel word you and other are using is the term "harm" or "abuse" and the like.

When interfearing with parental right issue's (especilly around issue's of human sexuality" courts are very carefull & tend to tread lightly.

Gay activists on the other hand seem to want the whole world to make any effort to treat homosexuals illegal.

These are kids of coarse and they dont call them developmental years for nothing.

Young people's bodies are changing, hormones are raging, and cultural and peer preasure says..."find a place and fit in"

There are valid problems like gender identity disorder, peer labeling, and lack of self esteem and issues surrounding ones sense of manhood or womanhood that effect young people during adolescence in particular.

I'm sure gay activists want as many youth to idetify as gay as possible. But most parents know that young people are suseptable to multiple influences and are vulnerable to pressure from a variety of sources including the media, the popular culture, their peers and the like.

A blanket prohibition against efforts to address such issue's is just as likley to prevent ligitimante efforts to help youth as it is to stifle "harmfull" practices.

“ reality, what a concept”

Since: Nov 07

this one

#55 Dec 20, 2012
Fitz wrote:
Im afraid this law says nothing about "pray away the gay" nor pin point specific thearapies you find abusive. There is no single "practice" that is being forbidden... as such it can easily be declared overly broad and therefore and infringment on the rights of the parents over their childrens upbringing.
Sorry sweetie, but the law not only limits these forms of child abuse in the hands of licensed professionals, but those working in a therapeutic capacity who with religious affiliated groups as well. "Ex-gay" organizations like Evergreen and JONAH will have to keepa the hands off the kids too. While the law does not ban specific forms of therapy in the non-functioning ex-gay arsenal, it is clear enough to what types of practices practitioners are not to be engaging in, the thought that it is overly broad is wishful thinking on your part.
Fitz wrote:
You would think homosexuals of all people would understand the shifting nature of medical opinion its perpencity to be in & out of fashion.
We do dear, which is why this form of child abuse has to be stopped.
Fitz wrote:
For a group that wants to get "married" you would think they would have more respect for parental rights.
I have a great deal of respect for parental rights, but those rights don't include a right to psychologically abuse a child just because a parent is worried they might not be heterosexual.
Fitz

Roseville, MI

#56 Dec 20, 2012
Rick in Kansas wrote:
<quoted text>Sorry sweetie, but the law not only limits these forms of child abuse in the hands of licensed professionals, but those working in a therapeutic capacity who with religious affiliated groups as well. "Ex-gay" organizations like Evergreen and JONAH will have to keepa the hands off the kids too. While the law does not ban specific forms of therapy in the non-functioning ex-gay arsenal, it is clear enough to what types of practices practitioners are not to be engaging in, the thought that it is overly broad is wishful thinking on your part. <quoted text>We do dear, which is why this form of child abuse has to be stopped. <quoted text>I have a great deal of respect for parental rights, but those rights don't include a right to psychologically abuse a child just because a parent is worried they might not be heterosexual.
Now you havew declared it "child-abuse" - If you were confident that this was such you should call child protective services.

Its more likley that they will simply change the names of there approaches to be more inline with the law, such as heterosexual affirmation thearpy or gender identity counceling and the like..

I'm not really familiar with Evergreen and Jonah, I know the Catholic Church has a group called courage, a wonder if they would be banned by this law.

What ype of thearpy for young people expieriencing unwanted sexual thoughts and feelings would you support as not being "psychologically abusive"..??

“I Am No One Else”

Since: Apr 12

Seattle

#57 Dec 20, 2012
Fitz wrote:
<quoted text>
Obviously the weasel word you and other are using is the term "harm" or "abuse" and the like.
When interfearing with parental right issue's (especilly around issue's of human sexuality" courts are very carefull & tend to tread lightly.
Gay activists on the other hand seem to want the whole world to make any effort to treat homosexuals illegal.
These are kids of coarse and they dont call them developmental years for nothing.
Young people's bodies are changing, hormones are raging, and cultural and peer preasure says..."find a place and fit in"
There are valid problems like gender identity disorder, peer labeling, and lack of self esteem and issues surrounding ones sense of manhood or womanhood that effect young people during adolescence in particular.
I'm sure gay activists want as many youth to idetify as gay as possible. But most parents know that young people are suseptable to multiple influences and are vulnerable to pressure from a variety of sources including the media, the popular culture, their peers and the like.
A blanket prohibition against efforts to address such issue's is just as likley to prevent ligitimante efforts to help youth as it is to stifle "harmfull" practices.
It's simple, you don't own your children, they are humans and deserve the same freedoms and securities we have within medically sane limits. Of course the protections are far more important than the freedoms, and when the parents are unwilling to protect their children, then they lose all right to have them, end of story.

“I Am No One Else”

Since: Apr 12

Seattle

#58 Dec 20, 2012
Fitz wrote:
<quoted text>
Now you havew declared it "child-abuse" - If you were confident that this was such you should call child protective services.
Its more likley that they will simply change the names of there approaches to be more inline with the law, such as heterosexual affirmation thearpy or gender identity counceling and the like..
I'm not really familiar with Evergreen and Jonah, I know the Catholic Church has a group called courage, a wonder if they would be banned by this law.
What ype of thearpy for young people expieriencing unwanted sexual thoughts and feelings would you support as not being "psychologically abusive"..??
It is abuse. Being toward a child, it's child abuse.

“Headed toward the cliff”

Since: Nov 07

Tawas City, Michigan

#59 Dec 20, 2012
Fitz wrote:
<quoted text>
Obviously the weasel word you and other are using is the term "harm" or "abuse" and the like.
When interfearing with parental right issue's (especilly around issue's of human sexuality" courts are very carefull & tend to tread lightly.
Gay activists on the other hand seem to want the whole world to make any effort to treat homosexuals illegal.
These are kids of coarse and they dont call them developmental years for nothing.
Young people's bodies are changing, hormones are raging, and cultural and peer preasure says..."find a place and fit in"
There are valid problems like gender identity disorder, peer labeling, and lack of self esteem and issues surrounding ones sense of manhood or womanhood that effect young people during adolescence in particular.
I'm sure gay activists want as many youth to idetify as gay as possible. But most parents know that young people are suseptable to multiple influences and are vulnerable to pressure from a variety of sources including the media, the popular culture, their peers and the like.
A blanket prohibition against efforts to address such issue's is just as likley to prevent ligitimante efforts to help youth as it is to stifle "harmfull" practices.
Oh yes, all those kids are turning gay just so they can fit in to a society which embaces them so........

Let's just beat the gay out of them, that'll work! Just like they used to do with left-handed people.

It's because of morons like you that we need to pass a bill to prevent parents from harming their own children.

“Headed toward the cliff”

Since: Nov 07

Tawas City, Michigan

#60 Dec 20, 2012
Fitz wrote:
<quoted text>
Now you havew declared it "child-abuse" - If you were confident that this was such you should call child protective services.
Its more likley that they will simply change the names of there approaches to be more inline with the law, such as heterosexual affirmation thearpy or gender identity counceling and the like..
I'm not really familiar with Evergreen and Jonah, I know the Catholic Church has a group called courage, a wonder if they would be banned by this law.
What ype of thearpy for young people expieriencing unwanted sexual thoughts and feelings would you support as not being "psychologically abusive"..??
Courage is just another unsuccessful "pray away the gay" program.

Adults are free seek whatever "therapy" they want. They don't have the right to force their children to into such harmful programs.

“ reality, what a concept”

Since: Nov 07

this one

#61 Dec 20, 2012
Fitz wrote:
Now you havew declared it "child-abuse" - If you were confident that this was such you should call child protective services.
Sweetie, if you can take the liberty to call what these fools are doing to these kids "therapy", I can take the liberty to call it child abuse.
Fitz wrote:
Its more likley that they will simply change the names of there approaches to be more inline with the law, such as heterosexual affirmation thearpy or gender identity counceling and the like..
They can call it whatever they want, but the law is clear as to what they are prohibited from doing and by whatever name, if they are found to be in violation of the law, there will be repercussions.
Fitz wrote:
I'm not really familiar with Evergreen and Jonah, I know the Catholic Church has a group called courage, a wonder if they would be banned by this law.
Evergreen is affiliated with the Mormons and JONAH has been run by an ex-con con man as a Jewish group (they have their own civil suit problem), these and other "ex-gay ministries" offer counseling, usually by non-licensed "peer counselors" and "life coaches". The Catholic group isn't trying for sexual orientation change, it just promotes keeping your legs crossed for Jesus as the answer to Catholic homosexuality.
Fitz wrote:
What ype of thearpy for young people expieriencing unwanted sexual thoughts and feelings would you support as not being "psychologically abusive"..??
It would depend on what those sexual thoughts and feelings were and why they did not want them, now wouldn't it? There have been thoughtful heterosexuals with all sorts of supposed cures for the alleged problem of our homosexuality since time immemorial. Those that didn't involve killing us all have one reality in common, they do not work. You want parents to be able to subject their children to this, whether the kids agree or not. You should be ashamed.

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#62 Dec 21, 2012
Fitz wrote:
<quoted text>
Obviously the weasel word you and other are using is the term "harm" or "abuse" and the like.
When interfearing with parental right issue's (especilly around issue's of human sexuality" courts are very carefull & tend to tread lightly.
Gay activists on the other hand seem to want the whole world to make any effort to treat homosexuals illegal.
These are kids of coarse and they dont call them developmental years for nothing.
Young people's bodies are changing, hormones are raging, and cultural and peer preasure says..."find a place and fit in"
There are valid problems like gender identity disorder, peer labeling, and lack of self esteem and issues surrounding ones sense of manhood or womanhood that effect young people during adolescence in particular.
I'm sure gay activists want as many youth to idetify as gay as possible. But most parents know that young people are suseptable to multiple influences and are vulnerable to pressure from a variety of sources including the media, the popular culture, their peers and the like.
A blanket prohibition against efforts to address such issue's is just as likley to prevent ligitimante efforts to help youth as it is to stifle "harmfull" practices.
The standard treatments for the issues you describe are NOT the same as what is being declared illegal.

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