Should same-sex marriage become legal?

Sep 25, 2011 | Posted by: roboblogger | Full story: MLive.com

Between 2000 and 2005, the number of same-sex couples in the United States increased by more than 20 percent, according to the Williams Institute, a think tank concerned with laws and public policy related to sexual orientation.

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Brandenmatthew

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#16262
Sep 12, 2012
 

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Just Think wrote:
<quoted text>
So the female prostitutes are cool?
no it said homosexual offenders

“ reality, what a concept”

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#16263
Sep 12, 2012
 

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Kom2 wrote:
My friend, again I say the (WORD) homosexual did not appear in any translation of the Christian Bible until 1946 because we have to acknowledge that you don't translate a word from Hebrew and Greek into the English if there is no English equivalent. So, using the term "homosexual" in the English Bible could not have occurred until after the word had entered the English vocabulary.
You keep saying that over and over again as if it is proof of anything. The point you are so desperate to avoid is that while the ancient Greeks did not have a word equivalent to the modern concept of homosexuality, they did have words to describe same sex sexual acts and those who engage in them, words which were not used by Paul, writing in Greek to a Greek audience in his little list of those who he says will not be inheriting the kingdom of heaven. For "homosexuality" to suddenly appear in the English version of the text is not faithful, literal translation but creative writing with an ugly agenda.
Kom2 wrote:
God makes clear of homosexuality being wrong in many Verses like;
•Lev. 18:22, "You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination."1
•Lev. 20:13, "If there is a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act; they shall surely be put to death. Their bloodguiltness is upon them"
Once again dear, unless YOU are adhering to ALL the laws and commandments found in Leviticus and Deuteronomy, calling out anyone for their supposed violations is the kind of hypocrisy that these books repeatedly condemns.
Kom2 wrote:
•1 Cor. 6:9-10, "Or do you not know that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, 10nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, shall inherit the kingdom of God."
Repeating the verse doesn't change the reality that your "translation" contains a couple of flat out lies. According to the oldest known copy of the work, Paul mentions neither those who are effeminate nor those who are homosexual and for them to appear in your version is an insult to God.
Kom2 wrote:
•Rom. 1:26-28, "For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural, 27and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error. 28And just as they did not see fit to acknowledge God any longer, God gave them over to a depraved mind, to do those things which are not proper."
And of course there are three out of context verses that tell us that God made straight Romans do gay stuff as punishment for their idolatry. What exactly do you suppose this is telling us other than you can't comprehend what you claim to have read?

If you really want to believe that your version of God hates homosexuality and/or homosexuals, such a choice is your right, but you really should quit blaming your exercise of your own free will on the Bible and God, neither made you do it.

“ reality, what a concept”

Since: Nov 07

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#16264
Sep 12, 2012
 

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Kom2 wrote:
My friend, as I said before, homosexuality is a choice.
You keep claiming that you know me better than I do myself, but other than making yourself look like a fool, you really have offered nothing which might be confused with proof that you actually do.
Kom2 wrote:
Romans 1 shows that because these persons “worshipped and served the creature rather than the creator” and “changed the truth of God into a lie” God gave them up to homosexuality, which is described as a SHAMEFUL AFFECTION.
First you claim that homosexuality is a choice and then you immediately reference a verse where God made a bunch of presumably straight Romans go gay in a snit over their idolatry. Will you make up what you are passing off as your mind. Either it is a choice as you claim or something God does when he's ticked as Paul claims, it can't be both.
Kom2 wrote:
Further, Romans 1 shows that homosexuality is “against nature,” which means that this orientation is foreign to man’s nature, that is, it is NOT instilled by God, but by man.
Clearly Paul wasn't particularly observant of nature, because we know that same sex acts and even same sex pair bonding occurs throughout nature and always has. Yes, Paul writes negatively of these same sex sexual acts that he blamed on God's mood, but Paul thought all good Christians should be keeping their legs crossed for Jesus, even the straight folk.
Kom2 wrote:
Why would God create one homosexual and then say to them that they are wrong? This would make God a hypocrite.
Hon, you just referenced a verse that says God made a whole slew of straight Roman Christians as gay as gay can get, you figure it out.
Kom2 wrote:
God create Man for Woman and Woman for Man. God did not create one homosexual, he made us with Freewill which brings us to choices of who we are and who we will be.
And your free will choices have left you a maleducated fool. If you don't want to believe that God hasn't given us the gift of our homosexuality, that would be YOUR problem with God, not ours.

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#16265
Sep 12, 2012
 

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Rick in Kansas wrote:
<quoted text>You keep saying that over and over again as if it is proof of anything. The point you are so desperate to avoid is that while the ancient Greeks did not have a word equivalent to the modern concept of homosexuality, they did have words to describe same sex sexual acts and those who engage in them, words which were not used by Paul, writing in Greek to a Greek audience in his little list of those who he says will not be inheriting the kingdom of heaven. For "homosexuality" to suddenly appear in the English version of the text is not faithful, literal translation but creative writing with an ugly agenda.
<quoted text>Once again dear, unless YOU are adhering to ALL the laws and commandments found in Leviticus and Deuteronomy, calling out anyone for their supposed violations is the kind of hypocrisy that these books repeatedly condemns.
<quoted text>Repeating the verse doesn't change the reality that your "translation" contains a couple of flat out lies. According to the oldest known copy of the work, Paul mentions neither those who are effeminate nor those who are homosexual and for them to appear in your version is an insult to God.
<quoted text>And of course there are three out of context verses that tell us that God made straight Romans do gay stuff as punishment for their idolatry. What exactly do you suppose this is telling us other than you can't comprehend what you claim to have read?
If you really want to believe that your version of God hates homosexuality and/or homosexuals, such a choice is your right, but you really should quit blaming your exercise of your own free will on the Bible and God, neither made you do it.
Indeed! Well said.
Robsan5

Los Angeles, CA

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#16266
Sep 12, 2012
 

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Brandenmatthew wrote:
<quoted text> here 1 corinthians 6:9do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral no idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor HOMOSEXUAL OFFENDERS
I'm not sure if you've noticed, but this thread is about same-sex marriage. Where in your bible does it say, "man shall not marry man, nor shall woman marry woman"?
And why should your religious beliefs control the lived of other Americans who do not have the same beliefs as you?
Robert

Since: Apr 11

North Hollywood, CA

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#16267
Sep 12, 2012
 

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Rick in Kansas wrote:
<quoted text>You keep claiming that you know me better than I do myself, but other than making yourself look like a fool, you really have offered nothing which might be confused with proof that you actually do. <quoted text>First you claim that homosexuality is a choice and then you immediately reference a verse where God made a bunch of presumably straight Romans go gay in a snit over their idolatry. Will you make up what you are passing off as your mind. Either it is a choice as you claim or something God does when he's ticked as Paul claims, it can't be both. <quoted text>Clearly Paul wasn't particularly observant of nature, because we know that same sex acts and even same sex pair bonding occurs throughout nature and always has. Yes, Paul writes negatively of these same sex sexual acts that he blamed on God's mood, but Paul thought all good Christians should be keeping their legs crossed for Jesus, even the straight folk.
<quoted text>Hon, you just referenced a verse that says God made a whole slew of straight Roman Christians as gay as gay can get, you figure it out.
<quoted text>And your free will choices have left you a maleducated fool. If you don't want to believe that God hasn't given us the gift of our homosexuality, that would be YOUR problem with God, not ours.
Yeah, Paul was really clueless when it came to nature.
"Does not even nature itself teach you, that, if a man have long hair, it is a shame to him? But if a woman has long hair, it is a glory to her: for her hair is given her for a covering." 1 Corinthians 11:15

Off topic...but...
Reminds me of when people objected to The Beatles "long hair", it's hard to imagine their hair cuts were so controversial.

Since: Aug 11

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#16268
Sep 12, 2012
 

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Rose_NoHo wrote:
<quoted text>
Yeah, Paul was really clueless when it came to nature.
"Does not even nature itself teach you, that, if a man have long hair, it is a shame to him? But if a woman has long hair, it is a glory to her: for her hair is given her for a covering." 1 Corinthians 11:15
Off topic...but...
Reminds me of when people objected to The Beatles "long hair", it's hard to imagine their hair cuts were so controversial.
Yea. Remember the clean cut all American baseball heroes? I was watching a game the other night and the pitcher had hair longer than the Beatles.

Since: Apr 11

North Hollywood, CA

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#16269
Sep 12, 2012
 

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WasteWater wrote:
<quoted text>
Yea. Remember the clean cut all American baseball heroes? I was watching a game the other night and the pitcher had hair longer than the Beatles.
What is this generation coming to?:)
Kom2

Miami, FL

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#16270
Sep 12, 2012
 

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Just Think wrote:
<quoted text>
You really don't see the con you're a part of, do you?
If you don't hear anything when you pray you aren't listening? You need to pray louder? Seriously? So its always the fault of the person praying? What a shame inducing religion you follow.
My friend, The Bible and Christian ex-homosexuals, have said that homosexuality is a sinful choice (I Corinthians 6:9-11). Also, in 2012 ABC News reported concerning actress Cynthia Nixon: "Cynthia Nixon stands by her statement that she is gay by choice, despite the backlash she’s received from members of the gay community." There is no link between homosexuality and genetics, it very likely that homosexuals will engage in homosexual activitys not because they were born that way, but rather because they choose to.

It is one thing to hear someone and another to listen to them.
God always answers my friend but he does so in diffrent ways. For example; when Jesus Prayed to God and asked Him "Can this cup be passed on?" God said nothing in return which ment No, because Jesus is the only way.

I say to you now my friend, Jesus Loves you and is waiting for you in Heaven, why not join Him? I Pray tonight again for you my friend, as I said before; I want to see you in Heaven.
Kom2

Miami, FL

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#16271
Sep 12, 2012
 

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Rose_NoHo wrote:
<quoted text>
If god hears all prayers, why do you need to pray louder?
My friend, we do it as a sign of Believing and Never Giving Up. By Louder I mean "More and With More Heart". So this way we show God that we Believe and Trust in Him.
Kom2

Miami, FL

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Sep 12, 2012
 

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Rick in Kansas wrote:
<quoted text>You keep saying that over and over again as if it is proof of anything. The point you are so desperate to avoid is that while the ancient Greeks did not have a word equivalent to the modern concept of homosexuality, they did have words to describe same sex sexual acts and those who engage in them, words which were not used by Paul, writing in Greek to a Greek audience in his little list of those who he says will not be inheriting the kingdom of heaven. For "homosexuality" to suddenly appear in the English version of the text is not faithful, literal translation but creative writing with an ugly agenda.
<quoted text>Once again dear, unless YOU are adhering to ALL the laws and commandments found in Leviticus and Deuteronomy, calling out anyone for their supposed violations is the kind of hypocrisy that these books repeatedly condemns.
<quoted text>Repeating the verse doesn't change the reality that your "translation" contains a couple of flat out lies. According to the oldest known copy of the work, Paul mentions neither those who are effeminate nor those who are homosexual and for them to appear in your version is an insult to God.
<quoted text>And of course there are three out of context verses that tell us that God made straight Romans do gay stuff as punishment for their idolatry. What exactly do you suppose this is telling us other than you can't comprehend what you claim to have read?
If you really want to believe that your version of God hates homosexuality and/or homosexuals, such a choice is your right, but you really should quit blaming your exercise of your own free will on the Bible and God, neither made you do it.
My friend, God does NOT hate homosexuals. God does not create a person with homosexual desires. The Bible tells us that people become homosexuals because of sin (Romans 1:24-27) and ultimately because of their own choice. A person may be born with a greater susceptibility to homosexuality, just as some people are born with a tendency to violence and other sins. That does not excuse the person’s choosing to sin by giving in to sinful desires. If a person is born with a greater susceptibility to anger/rage, does that make it right for him to give into those desires? Of course not. The same is true with homosexuality.
However, the Bible does not describe homosexuality as a “greater” sin than any other. All sin is offensive to God.

Most researchers have concluded that sexual orientation is a complex, multifactorial issue in which biological, social and psychological factors combine to play a role in the ultimate sexual orientation of an individual. According to Julie Harren, Ph.D., the formula for this interplay between factors might be represented by the equations:

--Genes + Brain Wiring + Prenatal Hormonal Environment = Temperament.
--Parents + Peers + Experiences = Environment.
--Temperament + Environment = Homosexual Orientation.

Homosexuals are precious souls to God, for whom Christ died. God loves persons of all sexual orientations, just like He loves all sinners. The Bible says, "But God commends His love to us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us" (Romans 5:8). Jesus Christ "is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world" (I John 2:2). The gospel of Christ "is the power of God for salvation, to every one that believes" (Romans 1:16). In Christ alone, we find the definitive source for healing, restoration, forgiveness, and comfort. He is the way by which we can all experience the affirming, unconditional love, value, and acceptance of our Father in Heaven.
Kom2

Miami, FL

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#16273
Sep 12, 2012
 

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Rick in Kansas wrote:
<quoted text>You keep claiming that you know me better than I do myself, but other than making yourself look like a fool, you really have offered nothing which might be confused with proof that you actually do. <quoted text>First you claim that homosexuality is a choice and then you immediately reference a verse where God made a bunch of presumably straight Romans go gay in a snit over their idolatry. Will you make up what you are passing off as your mind. Either it is a choice as you claim or something God does when he's ticked as Paul claims, it can't be both. <quoted text>Clearly Paul wasn't particularly observant of nature, because we know that same sex acts and even same sex pair bonding occurs throughout nature and always has. Yes, Paul writes negatively of these same sex sexual acts that he blamed on God's mood, but Paul thought all good Christians should be keeping their legs crossed for Jesus, even the straight folk.
<quoted text>Hon, you just referenced a verse that says God made a whole slew of straight Roman Christians as gay as gay can get, you figure it out.
<quoted text>And your free will choices have left you a maleducated fool. If you don't want to believe that God hasn't given us the gift of our homosexuality, that would be YOUR problem with God, not ours.
My friend, The Scriptures describe the uncleanness and condemnation coming upon those who practice these things:“That is why God gave them up to disgraceful sexual appetites, for both their females changed the natural [phy•si•ken&#8242;] use of themselves into one contrary to nature; and likewise even the males left the natural use of the female and became violently inflamed in their lust toward one another, males with males, working what is obscene and receiving in themselves the full recompense, which was due for their error.” For they will punish themselves with what they do.

"Paul's writings have been taken out of context and twisted to punish and oppress every identifiable minority in the world: Jews, children, women, blacks, slaves, politicians, divorced people, convicts, pro-choice people, lesbians, gays, bisexuals, transsexuals, religious reformers, the mentally ill, and the list could go on and on. Paul is often difficult and confusing to understand. A lot of Paul's writing is very difficult to translate. Since most of his letters were written in response to news from other people.

Romans 1:26-27: "For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet."

"just reward:" Romans 1:27 refers to the idolaters receiving a recompense or penalty for "their error which was due." (NKJ, ASV, etc). This appears to be a reference to the transmission of sexually transmitted diseases (STDs) which was epidemic among such Pagan fertility cults at the time.

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#16274
Sep 12, 2012
 

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Rose_NoHo wrote:
<quoted text>
What is this generation coming to?:)
Most of us are broadening our horizons while the fearful circle the wagons. ;)

“ reality, what a concept”

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#16275
Sep 13, 2012
 

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Kom2 wrote:
My friend, God does NOT hate homosexuals.
Then why do you keep telling us that he does?
Kom2 wrote:
God does not create a person with homosexual desires.
You keep claiming that, but you have yet to offer a shred of evidence that such is the case. It's to be expected when the sum total of your "knowledge" comes from a book you have "read" into it what YOU want to be there.
Kom2 wrote:
The Bible tells us that people become homosexuals because of sin (Romans 1:24-27) and ultimately because of their own choice.
Um dear, the Bible, in said verses, tells us that GOD was to blame for those acts. HE is the one who made them do these things in payback for their idolatry. While you are free to read into it whatever you want, you are only fooling yourself.
Kom2 wrote:
A person may be born with a greater susceptibility to homosexuality, just as some people are born with a tendency to violence and other sins.
But dear, up until now you have been saying it is nothing more than a choice, you really need to make up what you are passing off as your mind on this. As for your comparisons, are you really sure that you want to blame God for the giving someone the gift of the greater propensity to commit sin?
Kom2 wrote:
That does not excuse the person’s choosing to sin by giving in to sinful desires.
But if GOD has given them this supposed capacity, who are they to deny what YOU choose to believe they have given? You have told me repeatedly that God does not give people homosexuality and or other sinful thoughts and desires because to act on them is sinful, but now you are saying that yes He does, but doesn't want us to act on it. That would make your choice of versions of God a twisted b*astard when you think about it.
Kom2 wrote:
If a person is born with a greater susceptibility to anger/rage, does that make it right for him to give into those desires? Of course not. The same is true with homosexuality.
Who are they to deny what you say God has given them and who are YOU to say that it would be a sin for them to act upon the very nature you just said God gave them. This really was a bad attempt at logic on your part.
Kom2 wrote:
However, the Bible does not describe homosexuality as a “greater” sin than any other. All sin is offensive to God.
Take for example the sins YOU have committed during the course of our little discussion, hubris, hypocrisy, the bearing of false witness, the unrighteous judgment of others, false prophesy to name but a few, let he among you who is without sin cast the first stone, but you keep chucking rocks anyways.

CONTINUED

“ reality, what a concept”

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Sep 13, 2012
 

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Kom2 wrote:

Most researchers have concluded that sexual orientation is a complex, multifactorial issue in which biological, social and psychological factors combine to play a role in the ultimate sexual orientation of an individual. According to Julie Harren, Ph.D., the formula for this interplay between factors might be represented by the equations:
--Genes + Brain Wiring + Prenatal Hormonal Environment = Temperament.
--Parents + Peers + Experiences = Environment.
--Temperament + Environment = Homosexual Orientation.
You should learn to pick your "experts" with a little more care, Julie Harren is among a very small and fortunately dwindling minority of those in the fields of psychology and psychiatry who believe that therapy can make someone heterosexual when they aren't. While the development of ones homosexuality may be complex, it is there to begin with and despite the discredited views of Harren and her ilk, it will always be there.
Kom2 wrote:
Homosexuals are precious souls to God, for whom Christ died. God loves persons of all sexual orientations, just like He loves all sinners. The Bible says, "But God commends His love to us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us" (Romans 5:8). Jesus Christ "is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world" (I John 2:2). The gospel of Christ "is the power of God for salvation, to every one that believes" (Romans 1:16). In Christ alone, we find the definitive source for healing, restoration, forgiveness, and comfort. He is the way by which we can all experience the affirming, unconditional love, value, and acceptance of our Father in Heaven.
And who are YOU to say that God doesn't love us just as HE CHOSE to create us? You keep citing the same verses which you have chosen to believe to be condemnations of our actually doing something about what God created in us. Two are from a book that is hypocrisy for you to even cite, one is nothing but a lie with the painfully obvious anti-gay agenda of man placing themselves above the supposed truth of the word of God and one where God made them do it. You are free to choose to believe whatever you want, but you really should quit blaming God and the Bible for how YOU have exercised your free will.

“ reality, what a concept”

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Sep 13, 2012
 

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Kom2 wrote:
<quoted text>
My friend, The Scriptures describe the uncleanness and condemnation coming upon those who practice these things:(plagiarized from: http://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1200003188 )For they will punish themselves with what they do.
And what does the Bible have to say about the sins of the theft of the works of others and the bearing of false witness in attempting to pass that work off as your own? Simply putting quotation marks around what you have cut and pasted just doesn't excuse what you have been caught doing.
Kom2 wrote:
Odd, that considering where you ripped this off from, you have chosen to completely ignore the alternate interpretations that were right there for you to read. It would seem to me, that even in your choice of versions of Christianity, that you really should refrain from lecturing others on what you choose to call their sins until you can avoid committing sin in order to do so.
DKL

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nope

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yes

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Sep 13, 2012
 

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Kom2 wrote:
<quoted text>
My friend, The Bible and Christian ex-homosexuals, have said that homosexuality is a sinful choice (I Corinthians 6:9-11). Also, in 2012 ABC News reported concerning actress Cynthia Nixon: "Cynthia Nixon stands by her statement that she is gay by choice, despite the backlash she’s received from members of the gay community." There is no link between homosexuality and genetics, it very likely that homosexuals will engage in homosexual activitys not because they were born that way, but rather because they choose to.
It is one thing to hear someone and another to listen to them.
God always answers my friend but he does so in diffrent ways. For example; when Jesus Prayed to God and asked Him "Can this cup be passed on?" God said nothing in return which ment No, because Jesus is the only way.
I say to you now my friend, Jesus Loves you and is waiting for you in Heaven, why not join Him? I Pray tonight again for you my friend, as I said before; I want to see you in Heaven.
When did you choose to be heterosexual?

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#16281
Sep 14, 2012
 

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Kom2 wrote:
<quoted text>
My friend, Homosexuality is a romantic or sexual attraction or behavior between members of the (same sex or gender) which includes (Man and Woman).
The Bible says in the NIV “Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived, neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God.(1 Corinthians 6:9-11).
o

Homosexuals are not described as men or women with a romantic or sexual attraction to another member of the same sex. They are people and they have the same rights under the law as anyone else. The fact that modern man had not discovered what makes homosexuals homosexuals is as obvious as the fact that the same modern man can't tell what makes heterosexuals heterosexuals. All that can be said is that homosexuals have been consistently judged by heterosexuals as being perverted and immoral and nothing more. To say the Bible dictates what is correct would indicate that all that is written in the Bible must be taken at face value and completely literally. A long list of scripture are no longer taken this way. If it were so, there would be such things as murder of children who are disobedient and women confined to roles completely subservient to males in all ways. These two facts alone make the argument that scripture decides what is correct and what is incorrect. Are all people supposed to take such arguments as the final solution to the question?

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