Gays drug, rape and murder young stra...

Gays drug, rape and murder young straight man

Posted in the Gay/Lesbian Forum

Dan in Pa

Plymouth Meeting, PA

#1 Nov 22, 2008
See below link to a story about what seems to be a gay party involving the rape and murder of a young man. I'm sure this is not indicative of the gay scene en masse, but I wonder why it does not get any press coverage the way Matthew Shephard's senseless killing did?

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/P/PA_INT...

Since: Nov 07

Providence, RI

#2 Nov 22, 2008
Dan in Pa wrote:
See below link to a story about what seems to be a gay party involving the rape and murder of a young man. I'm sure this is not indicative of the gay scene en masse, but I wonder why it does not get any press coverage the way Matthew Shephard's senseless killing did?
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/P/PA_INT...
This is an odd case. Most gay rape takes place within the gay community.

It does not get any coverage because the gay community is notorious for covering up its less savory aspects.
The scramble for gay special rights ultimately denies less privileged queers social justice. And as this case illustrates, there is occasional collateral damage outside the community.

But most of queer oppression is within queer communities. It is often said that "queers eat their own," but occasionally, they dine out.

Unfortunately, the queer community is not yet able to cope with the criticism and self inquiry to properly deal with incidents like this. That level of maturity and responsibility is not yet ours.

Someday, perhaps, but not today.
hoodathunkit

Raymond, OH

#4 Nov 22, 2008
leonov wrote:
<quoted text>
This is an odd case. Most gay rape takes place within the gay community.
It does not get any coverage because the gay community is notorious for covering up its less savory aspects.
The scramble for gay special rights ultimately denies less privileged queers social justice. And as this case illustrates, there is occasional collateral damage outside the community.
But most of queer oppression is within queer communities. It is often said that "queers eat their own," but occasionally, they dine out.
Unfortunately, the queer community is not yet able to cope with the criticism and self inquiry to properly deal with incidents like this. That level of maturity and responsibility is not yet ours.
Someday, perhaps, but not today.
Please take the time to read and contemplate what you posted. What exactly is your problem? I've read several of your posts recently and didn't find any merit in any of them. You come off as being a bitter person. I certainly hope that your real personality doesn't suck as badly as your personna in your posts. Do you have any idea how ignorant it sounds to try to claim that an article in a Scranton, Pa. newspaper didn't get any coverage? The article in the newspaper is news coverage. Just because the national media didn't jump on it doesn't make it a cover up any more than any other local news article that doesn't make national headlines. Do you have any idea how many local news articles don't get national coverage? I read local news for several communities because I have family in them. If I didn't read those local news coverages, there would be many crimes including murders that I wouldn't have heard about because they didn't get national coverage, including crimes in my local area.
"The scramble for gay special rights ultimately denies less privileged queers social justice. And as this case illustrates, there is occasional collateral damage outside the community.
But most of queer oppression is within queer communities." I really pity you. You poor under-privileged thing. So, somebody within the "gay" community doesn't like you. Are you trying to reach out for support from those who always been there for you? Or, are you trying to alienate yourself from those who have always supported you and stood by your side with your your bitter, nasty, immature, vindictive tyrade against the entire community?

Since: Dec 06

Salt Lake City, UT

#5 Nov 22, 2008
If you don't see the difference between what happened to Shepard and the crime described in this article, then it would be pointless to try to explain it to you.

So you are "sure" that this incident is "not indicative of the gay scene in masse." How progressive of you! It is no more "indicative" of the gay community than the far more numerous rapes and/or murders of women are "indicative" of straight men.
Dan in Pa wrote:
See below link to a story about what seems to be a gay party involving the rape and murder of a young man. I'm sure this is not indicative of the gay scene en masse, but I wonder why it does not get any press coverage the way Matthew Shephard's senseless killing did?
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/P/PA_INT...

Since: Dec 06

Salt Lake City, UT

#6 Nov 22, 2008
Amen!

While I have been taken aback by other posts made by this individual, I was truly appalled to read the one to which you refer. Who could possibly thing that the gay community has the power to control national media? And claiming "most of queer oppression is within queer communities" is beyond paranoia. I don't know who this individual has been hanging around with, but none of the gay people I know are the raging racists and transphobes that she claims somehow rule the gay community.

I am beginning to suspect that this poster is not who she claims to be. The use of the phrase "special rights" is straight out of the right-wing, fundie playbook. I find it difficult to believe it would be used by a Latina transsexual.
hoodathunkit wrote:
<quoted text>
Please take the time to read and contemplate what you posted. What exactly is your problem? I've read several of your posts recently and didn't find any merit in any of them. You come off as being a bitter person. I certainly hope that your real personality doesn't suck as badly as your personna in your posts. Do you have any idea how ignorant it sounds to try to claim that an article in a Scranton, Pa. newspaper didn't get any coverage? The article in the newspaper is news coverage. Just because the national media didn't jump on it doesn't make it a cover up any more than any other local news article that doesn't make national headlines. Do you have any idea how many local news articles don't get national coverage? I read local news for several communities because I have family in them. If I didn't read those local news coverages, there would be many crimes including murders that I wouldn't have heard about because they didn't get national coverage, including crimes in my local area.
"The scramble for gay special rights ultimately denies less privileged queers social justice. And as this case illustrates, there is occasional collateral damage outside the community.
But most of queer oppression is within queer communities." I really pity you. You poor under-privileged thing. So, somebody within the "gay" community doesn't like you. Are you trying to reach out for support from those who always been there for you? Or, are you trying to alienate yourself from those who have always supported you and stood by your side with your your bitter, nasty, immature, vindictive tyrade against the entire community?

Since: Nov 07

Providence, RI

#7 Nov 22, 2008
THEAprof wrote:
Amen!
While I have been taken aback by other posts made by this individual, I was truly appalled to read the one to which you refer. Who could possibly thing that the gay community has the power to control national media? And claiming "most of queer oppression is within queer communities" is beyond paranoia. I don't know who this individual has been hanging around with, but none of the gay people I know are the raging racists and transphobes that she claims somehow rule the gay community.
I am beginning to suspect that this poster is not who she claims to be. The use of the phrase "special rights" is straight out of the right-wing, fundie playbook. I find it difficult to believe it would be used by a Latina transsexual.
<quoted text>
Because a white dude is totally an expert on being a woc and trans. I get it.

I'm just asking for the white led gay community to recognize that white does not make right.
And, it is failing badly.

And yes, rights for white gay men is special rights. I got your back up with that, didn't I?

Upset that I don't just roll over and do what Whitey says?

What does that make you?

Gay rights does jack for me. ENDA and SONDA were special rights gone wrong. And trans women are still paying the price for that even now.

But, you are obviously taking the easy path, and claiming untrue things about me, because facing the fact that you choose to oppress is inconsistent with your self image as a blameless victim.

Queers can oppress too, honey. And what elevates our cause above mere special rights is bringing all of us to the table.

But, you seem to be arguing against that, and attacking me for bringing some honesty and integrity to this fight.

And you are willing to blame and bury your peccadilloes away, rather than face and fix them.

This is why I post. So that we may all come together, and not simply reproduce straight oppression in the form of transphobia, sexism and racism.

Since: Nov 07

Providence, RI

#8 Nov 22, 2008
THEAprof wrote:
If you don't see the difference between what happened to Shepard and the crime described in this article, then it would be pointless to try to explain it to you.
So you are "sure" that this incident is "not indicative of the gay scene in masse." How progressive of you! It is no more "indicative" of the gay community than the far more numerous rapes and/or murders of women are "indicative" of straight men.
<quoted text>
I could make a strong case that men (straight or otherwise) rape because of hate, and a need to control.
And I'm pretty sure that Shepard was tied to that fence in Wyoming by men who were pretty hateful, and had a need to control.

I suspect the "difference" you claim is more from a need to see gay men as beyond reproach, rather than any actual difference.

In a homophobic society, this is not surprising. But, gay men will achieve nothing by pretending that they are superior to straight men, or that their violence is somehow less reprehensible.

Gay men come with all the bugs and features that straight men do. This is what true equality means.

Just as good...and...just as bad. No more no less.

The only question is, are you willing to claim that you are better in order to assuage a soul wounded by societal homophobia? Who will you hurt in doing so?
And is that really what social justice is about?

Food for thought, indeed.

Since: Dec 06

Salt Lake City, UT

#9 Nov 22, 2008
Oh, because a trans poc is totally an expert on gay white men. I get it -- you are a flaming hypocrite!!

Don't blame me because Congress eliminated transsexuals from ENDA.(And since ENDA failed to pass, I don't see how you are anyone could still be "paying the price for that.") Personally, I was appalled, but you wouldn't know that because you you don't really know me and simply stereotype me as a white gay male. Where in ANY of my posts have I even suggested that "white makes right"?

If you intend your posts to bring people together, they are failing miserably. You aren't bringing honestly and integrity into the debate; you are adding hate and divisiveness.

All my life I have believed and argued for inclusiveness, for "bringing all of us to the table." Sadly, you make me question that. You clearly don't care about gay rights, yet you expect everyone to care about yours. Perhaps we should all be as selfish as you...
leonov wrote:
<quoted text>
Because a white dude is totally an expert on being a woc and trans. I get it.
I'm just asking for the white led gay community to recognize that white does not make right.
And, it is failing badly.
And yes, rights for white gay men is special rights. I got your back up with that, didn't I?
Upset that I don't just roll over and do what Whitey says?
What does that make you?
Gay rights does jack for me. ENDA and SONDA were special rights gone wrong. And trans women are still paying the price for that even now.
But, you are obviously taking the easy path, and claiming untrue things about me, because facing the fact that you choose to oppress is inconsistent with your self image as a blameless victim.
Queers can oppress too, honey. And what elevates our cause above mere special rights is bringing all of us to the table.
But, you seem to be arguing against that, and attacking me for bringing some honesty and integrity to this fight.
And you are willing to blame and bury your peccadilloes away, rather than face and fix them.
This is why I post. So that we may all come together, and not simply reproduce straight oppression in the form of transphobia, sexism and racism.
Dan in Pa

Plymouth Meeting, PA

#10 Nov 25, 2008
leonov wrote:
<quoted text>
This is an odd case. Most gay rape takes place within the gay community.
It does not get any coverage because the gay community is notorious for covering up its less savory aspects.
The scramble for gay special rights ultimately denies less privileged queers social justice. And as this case illustrates, there is occasional collateral damage outside the community.
But most of queer oppression is within queer communities. It is often said that "queers eat their own," but occasionally, they dine out.
Unfortunately, the queer community is not yet able to cope with the criticism and self inquiry to properly deal with incidents like this. That level of maturity and responsibility is not yet ours.
Someday, perhaps, but not today.
Leonov,

I appreciate your candor and agree with your sentiments.

The way the gay community reacts to situations such as this is really the barometer for how they collectively will be viewed by the rest of society. I wonder why it is that the gay community bands together to proclaim prejudice against it, but is silent in the face of such obviously heinous acts when perpetrated by it's own members?
Dan in Pa

Plymouth Meeting, PA

#11 Nov 25, 2008
THEAprof wrote:
If you don't see the difference between what happened to Shepard and the crime described in this article, then it would be pointless to try to explain it to you.
So you are "sure" that this incident is "not indicative of the gay scene in masse." How progressive of you! It is no more "indicative" of the gay community than the far more numerous rapes and/or murders of women are "indicative" of straight men.
<quoted text>
PROF,

In case you missed it, I was commenting on the obvious difference in press coverage not comparing the two crimes. Also in case you missed it, both men gay and straight are equally dead. Perhaps in your mind, Matthew Shepard's death bears more importance to your cause?

I think that gays ought to be more outraged about this straight slaying at the hands of gay men. The gay community's apparent indifference makes one wonder if it is really 'civil rights' they are fighting for or just 'gay rights'.

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