Pastor Won't Testify in Same-Sex Cust...

Pastor Won't Testify in Same-Sex Custody Dispute

There are 405 comments on the EDGE story from Jan 25, 2013, titled Pastor Won't Testify in Same-Sex Custody Dispute. In it, EDGE reports that:

A Virginia pastor convicted of helping a woman and her daughter involved in a custody dispute with the woman's former lesbian partner was taken into federal custody Thursday after refusing to answer questions about others involved in the flight posed by grand jury investigating the custody case.

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Since: Oct 12

Coolidge, AZ

#43 Jan 25, 2013
DNF wrote:
<quoted text>PLEASE explain how giving testimony that implicates other criminals is self incrimination.
LMAO
Firstly, if a person asserts their Fifth Amendment right not to testify on the basis that their testiimony "MIGHT" incriminate them, they are usally not an attorney, and therefore not an expert at law, so it is up to the prosecuter, or other authority who is doing the questioning, to PROVE that their testimony will not be incriminating. For instance, suppose "Person A" is arrested while committing a burglary. "Person A" asserts in court that it couldn't be him because he was with "Person B" all nite at his home. But "Person B" gave a key to "Person A" to committ the burglary, and the police and prosecuters do not know that fact. How can the prosecuter or judge say: "You MUST testify," when "Person B" KNOWS his testimony could implicate him because of a fact the police and prosecuters know nothing about ?

Secondly, like it or not, every individual posesses a "Miranda Right" to keep silent when question by the police or other government authorities, be they from the FBI, IRS, DEA, Coast Guard, or WHATEVER governmental autority they are from.

You CAN'T be compelled to answer questions asked of you by an agent of teh government, nor can you be compelled to talk to them at all.
barry

Henagar, AL

#44 Jan 25, 2013
DNF wrote:
<quoted text>Titus 3; Hebrews 13:17; Romans 6:16;
Rom 13:1,3-4,6 (NIV) Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established... Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and he will commend you. For he is God's servant to do you good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword for nothing... This is why you pay taxes, for the authorities are God's servants, who give their full time to governing.
1 Pet 2:13-14 (NIV) Submit yourselves for the Lord's sake to every authority instituted among men: whether to the king, as the supreme authority, or to governors, who are sent by him to punish those who do wrong and to commend those who do right.
5 verses to your 2. I win (I can easily find more)
right, the authors apostle paul and the apostle peter both executed by rome for their following and submitting to roman law when it came to preaching the gospel of Christ. riiiight.

Lililth_Satans_B ore

Since: May 12

Bellevue, WA

#45 Jan 25, 2013
barry wrote:
<quoted text>
right, the authors apostle paul and the apostle peter both executed by rome for their following and submitting to roman law when it came to preaching the gospel of Christ. riiiight.
who wrote the orginal three little pigs... what's it matter... there both fairytales

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#46 Jan 25, 2013
DNF wrote:
<quoted text>no I simply pointed out that there is a great deal in the Bible that can be used to justify anything. And that the Bible is usually not followed in it's entirety by "true believers".
You should be familiar with that since it's a regular practice of yours.
Are you EVER going to listen to me, my dear? Don't let Saul in in the first place. He's the camel's nose in the tent, but then you don't just get the whole camel. You're stuck with the whole herd.

DNF

“Judge less, Love more”

Since: Apr 07

Born in Newark Ohio

#47 Jan 25, 2013
snyper wrote:
<quoted text>
Are you EVER going to listen to me, my dear? Don't let Saul in in the first place. He's the camel's nose in the tent, but then you don't just get the whole camel. You're stuck with the whole herd.
You're right of course. But then you also know I found God and salvation through prayer and meditation not some book that's been mistranslated, edited, changed and revised so many times in order to protect the status quo of the ruling parties of the time (religious and secular) and who's main messages have been nearly lost.

We both know that if the case didn't involve a lesbian none of these "Christians" would be supporting this guy so fiercely. After all we never hear such outrage from them when any straight parent kidnaps their child from the other parent and defies court orders like the woman here did.

They remind me of pro lifers who support the death penalty. Same with the gun freaks who never object when laws are passed banning things like pepper spray or tazers, but go nuts when their G.I. Joe Rambo toys are involved.

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#48 Jan 25, 2013
DNF wrote:
<quoted text>You're right of course. But then you also know I found God and salvation through prayer and meditation not some book that's been mistranslated, edited, changed and revised so many times in order to protect the status quo of the ruling parties of the time (religious and secular) and who's main messages have been nearly lost.
We both know that if the case didn't involve a lesbian none of these "Christians" would be supporting this guy so fiercely. After all we never hear such outrage from them when any straight parent kidnaps their child from the other parent and defies court orders like the woman here did.
They remind me of pro lifers who support the death penalty. Same with the gun freaks who never object when laws are passed banning things like pepper spray or tazers, but go nuts when their G.I. Joe Rambo toys are involved.
I'm with you there. lol
Gay4JC

Wakefield, MA

#49 Jan 25, 2013
This is exactly how we are called to respond to ignorance and bigotry. Injustice can only continue if we feed it with our own fears and resentment. We know as Gay men and women that we are loved by God, so maybe it's time we show our heterosexual brothers and sisters how to love as we have been shown to love.
Chance wrote:
Dear heavenly Father, I pray that you will take care of Pastor Miller's family while he is in prison. Please open up opportunities for him to serve you and help the prisoners seek salvation as he lives among them. Encourage him and lift him up. And please, Lord, continue to be with Lisa and her daughter. Bless them and protect them as they strive to do your will. Please open up opportunities for them to be a witness to your power and grace as well. T
This is exactly how we are called to respond to ignorance and bigotry. Injustice can only continue if we feed it with our own fears and resentment. We know as Gay men and women that we are loved by God, so maybe it's time we show our heterosexual brothers and sisters how to love as we have been shown to love. Thank you so much for all you have already done for them and for providing the people who have helped them. I pray that the lives of all of these people can be used as a testament to you, showing the way to live lives that are pleasing in your sight. In Jesus' name I pray. Amen.

“Together for 24, legal for 5”

Since: Sep 07

Littleton, NH

#50 Jan 25, 2013
Cal In AZ wrote:
<quoted text>
Firstly, if a person asserts their Fifth Amendment right not to testify on the basis that their testiimony "MIGHT" incriminate them, they are usally not an attorney, and therefore not an expert at law, so it is up to the prosecuter, or other authority who is doing the questioning, to PROVE that their testimony will not be incriminating. For instance, suppose "Person A" is arrested while committing a burglary. "Person A" asserts in court that it couldn't be him because he was with "Person B" all nite at his home. But "Person B" gave a key to "Person A" to committ the burglary, and the police and prosecuters do not know that fact. How can the prosecuter or judge say: "You MUST testify," when "Person B" KNOWS his testimony could implicate him because of a fact the police and prosecuters know nothing about ?
Secondly, like it or not, every individual posesses a "Miranda Right" to keep silent when question by the police or other government authorities, be they from the FBI, IRS, DEA, Coast Guard, or WHATEVER governmental autority they are from.
You CAN'T be compelled to answer questions asked of you by an agent of teh government, nor can you be compelled to talk to them at all.
Well, if you grant immunity from prosecution, the risk of self-incrimination disappears.

Since: Oct 12

Coolidge, AZ

#52 Jan 25, 2013
nhjeff wrote:
<quoted text>
Well, if you grant immunity from prosecution, the risk of self-incrimination disappears.
But one could STILL be liable in a civil suit based on reasons one may not wish to disclose.

Since: Oct 12

Coolidge, AZ

#53 Jan 25, 2013
nhjeff wrote:
<quoted text>
Well, if you grant immunity from prosecution, the risk of self-incrimination disappears.
While that may have been true at one time because of the double jeopardy clause, the courts have now evisercated that constitutional protection.

For instance, supposing 2 mafiosi commit a murder together with both parties equally responsible for the death. Supposing that the state prosecuter grants full immunity to Nicholas "Nicky The Kneebreaker" Aiuppo for his testimony against his accomplice, Benjamin "Benny Bagels" Daidone. He agrees, and testifies and Benny Bagels is convicted and sentenced to life in prison in the state pen.

"Nicky The Kneebreaker" can STILL be indicted for murder, tried, convicted, and sentenced, by the Feds under the RICO Act.

And even if he's tried by the Feds for that murder, and found NOT GUILTY, he can STILL be tried again by the Feds for the same offense under the federal RICO Act, for engaging in a "racketeering enterprise", based on the same crimes he was found not guilty of. The Feds HAVE done it. I don't think it is constitutional in the slightest because of the U.S. Constitutional prohibition on double jeopardy, but the federal courts have ruled that it IS constitutional.

Btw did you see the movie or read the book, "Goodfellas" ?

“Luke laughs at hypocrites!”

Since: Sep 10

Palm Springs, California

#54 Jan 25, 2013
Chance wrote:
Dear heavenly Father, I pray that you will take care of Pastor Miller's family while he is in prison. Please open up opportunities for him to serve you and help the prisoners seek salvation as he lives among them. Encourage him and lift him up. And please, Lord, continue to be with Lisa and her daughter. Bless them and protect them as they strive to do your will. Please open up opportunities for them to be a witness to your power and grace as well. Thank you so much for all you have already done for them and for providing the people who have helped them. I pray that the lives of all of these people can be used as a testament to you, showing the way to live lives that are pleasing in your sight. In Jesus' name I pray. Amen.
Just think...when the good pastor drops to his knees to pray, his cell mate Cletus can just move towards him and open his fly. Oh, yes, how sweet it will be...the pastor so anti gay and now in a year or two he will be so 'gay friendly' he won't know what hit him. Karma's a bitch, ain't it?

“Reality is better than truth.”

Since: Nov 09

Indianapolis

#55 Jan 25, 2013
You're joking. You can claim the 5th during testimony, but the prosecution doesn't have to prove anything; YOU are making
the claim. The DA only has to prove HIS case, not yours.

In this case, it doesn't apply; he's already incriminated himself.

Miranda rights only apply to the arrest, and do not protect you from all questions.

You can refuse to answer, but yo0u can also be charged with obstruction.
Cal In AZ wrote:
<quoted text>
Firstly, if a person asserts their Fifth Amendment right not to testify on the basis that their testiimony "MIGHT" incriminate them, they are usally not an attorney, and therefore not an expert at law, so it is up to the prosecuter, or other authority who is doing the questioning, to PROVE that their testimony will not be incriminating. For instance, suppose "Person A" is arrested while committing a burglary. "Person A" asserts in court that it couldn't be him because he was with "Person B" all nite at his home. But "Person B" gave a key to "Person A" to committ the burglary, and the police and prosecuters do not know that fact. How can the prosecuter or judge say: "You MUST testify," when "Person B" KNOWS his testimony could implicate him because of a fact the police and prosecuters know nothing about ?
Secondly, like it or not, every individual posesses a "Miranda Right" to keep silent when question by the police or other government authorities, be they from the FBI, IRS, DEA, Coast Guard, or WHATEVER governmental autority they are from.
You CAN'T be compelled to answer questions asked of you by an agent of teh government, nor can you be compelled to talk to them at all.
Jane Dodo

West New York, NJ

#56 Jan 25, 2013
Chance wrote:
Dear heavenly Father, I pray that you will take care of Pastor Miller's family while he is in prison. Please open up opportunities for him to serve you and help the prisoners seek salvation as he lives among them. Encourage him and lift him up. And please, Lord, continue to be with Lisa and her daughter. Bless them and protect them as they strive to do your will. Please open up opportunities for them to be a witness to your power and grace as well. Thank you so much for all you have already done for them and for providing the people who have helped them. I pray that the lives of all of these people can be used as a testament to you, showing the way to live lives that are pleasing in your sight. In Jesus' name I pray. Amen.
Yes, Jesus. Bless the lawbreakers for they shall see prison.
Jane Dodo

West New York, NJ

#57 Jan 25, 2013
Gay4JC wrote:
This is exactly how we are called to respond to ignorance and bigotry. Injustice can only continue if we feed it with our own fears and resentment. We know as Gay men and women that we are loved by God, so maybe it's time we show our heterosexual brothers and sisters how to love as we have been shown to love. <quoted text>
Hell.... they didn't take the hint from Jesus, and they LOVE him.

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#58 Jan 26, 2013
Curteese wrote:
<quoted text>Just think...when the good pastor drops to his knees to pray, his cell mate Cletus can just move towards him and open his fly. Oh, yes, how sweet it will be...the pastor so anti gay and now in a year or two he will be so 'gay friendly' he won't know what hit him. Karma's a bitch, ain't it?
I've NEVER equated prison opportunism with being gay.

“Luke laughs at hypocrites!”

Since: Sep 10

Palm Springs, California

#59 Jan 26, 2013
snyper wrote:
<quoted text>
I've NEVER equated prison opportunism with being gay.
It's not.

From what I have heard, straight guys practice EXCLUSIVE homosexuality in prison, yet never turn gay. I just thought it ironic that the good pastor may now be forced to deal with it much more than he did before.

“Together for 24, legal for 5”

Since: Sep 07

Littleton, NH

#60 Jan 26, 2013
I think that's what they mean by "forced down our throats."

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#61 Jan 26, 2013
Curteese wrote:
<quoted text>It's not.
From what I have heard, straight guys practice EXCLUSIVE homosexuality in prison, yet never turn gay. I just thought it ironic that the good pastor may now be forced to deal with it much more than he did before.
But you see, in that usage, it furthers confusion in the hetero mind between orientation and variable behavior.

In prison it's opportunistic erotic hedonism.

“Luke laughs at hypocrites!”

Since: Sep 10

Palm Springs, California

#62 Jan 28, 2013
snyper wrote:
<quoted text>
But you see, in that usage, it furthers confusion in the hetero mind between orientation and variable behavior.
In prison it's opportunistic erotic hedonism.
I imagine MANY of our favorite haters have confused minds.
straight shooter

Barre, VT

#63 Jan 28, 2013
cpeter1313 wrote:
"All he did" was arrange a kidnapping and international abduction.
<quoted text>
I do not believe you can steal your own child...
I must have stolen my own car this morning too...

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