Justices may decide if vendors can sn...

Justices may decide if vendors can snub gay weddings

There are 2815 comments on the Daily Press & Argus story from Mar 20, 2014, titled Justices may decide if vendors can snub gay weddings. In it, Daily Press & Argus reports that:

When Vanessa Willock wanted an Albuquerque photographer to shoot her same-sex commitment ceremony in 2006, she contacted Elane Photography.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Daily Press & Argus.

“Headed toward the cliff”

Since: Nov 07

Tawas City, Michigan

#245 Mar 24, 2014
Wondering wrote:
<quoted text>
Didn't he already make that very clear?
Actually he didn't make that clear to everyone. Had the gay couple not reported him, no one else would have known- at least until the next gay couple came along only to be refused.

Why are bigots afraid to be upfront about their bigotry?

They all post the hours they're open to serve customers; why don't they post WHICH customers they'll serve during those hours?

Could it be they're afraid even many straight people will refuse to shop at a store which openly discriminates against gays & lesbians?
FundiesGotProble mz

Philadelphia, PA

#246 Mar 24, 2014
Dan wrote:
<quoted text>
There already was a sign in most places:
"We reserve the right to refuse service to anyone".
This has been explained to you many times:

Refusing service for some individuated, actual reason is permissible.

Refusing service to an entire group on the basis of (perception of) some protected characteristic is not permissible.

But you knew that and were just being stupid, i.e., yourself.
Wondering

Tyngsboro, MA

#247 Mar 24, 2014
WeTheSheeple wrote:
<quoted text>
Actually he didn't make that clear to everyone. Had the gay couple not reported him, no one else would have known- at least until the next gay couple came along only to be refused.
Why are bigots afraid to be upfront about their bigotry?
They all post the hours they're open to serve customers; why don't they post WHICH customers they'll serve during those hours?
Could it be they're afraid even many straight people will refuse to shop at a store which openly discriminates against gays & lesbians?
I like my sign idea better. Let the owners post a sign showing their sexual orientation. That way people can decide if they want to go to a shop owned by gays or straights. Remember when people went to shops because they liked their products or services? Ah, the old days.
hi hi

Lancaster, PA

#248 Mar 24, 2014
Dan wrote:
<quoted text>
There already was a sign in most places:
"We reserve the right to refuse service to anyone".
Thank you for the previous response and for this one.

Eh, I'd want to see a much bigger deal made out of this. The point would be to get people screeching about refusal to service. Then you come back round to Point A and begin to point out how it's ludicrous; people learn best from their own experience.

“Headed toward the cliff”

Since: Nov 07

Tawas City, Michigan

#249 Mar 24, 2014
Wondering wrote:
<quoted text>
I like my sign idea better. Let the owners post a sign showing their sexual orientation. That way people can decide if they want to go to a shop owned by gays or straights. Remember when people went to shops because they liked their products or services? Ah, the old days.
What makes you think you're going to like or dislike a product or service just because the owner has a particular sexual orientation?

YOU might be like that, but most people I know (myself included) wouldn't decide which business to patronize based on the owner's sexual orientation.

But they WOULD take into consideration the bias/prejudice of the business owner if that information was readily available.

And that's exactly by bigots try to hide their bias from most people except for the target of their bigotry.
Wondering

Tyngsboro, MA

#250 Mar 24, 2014
WeTheSheeple wrote:
<quoted text>
1. What makes you think you're going to like or dislike a product or service just because the owner has a particular sexual orientation?
2. YOU might be like that, but most people I know (myself included) wouldn't decide which business to patronize based on the owner's sexual orientation.
1. I didn't say that.
2. But you would know where to go to get a cake or some pictures taken.

“Headed toward the cliff”

Since: Nov 07

Tawas City, Michigan

#251 Mar 24, 2014
Wondering wrote:
<quoted text>
1. I didn't say that.
2. But you would know where to go to get a cake or some pictures taken.
I already know where to go to get a cake (a bakery) or some pictures taken (a photographer).

The only thing I don't readily know is whom that baker or photographer may discriminate against. That's why a sign stating what customers they won't serve would be helpful.

Btw, I wouldn't go to a gay baker who I know discriminates against Jews or to a photographer who discriminates against inter-racial couples anymore than I'd go to one who discriminates against gays & lesbians.
Wondering

Tyngsboro, MA

#252 Mar 24, 2014
WeTheSheeple wrote:
<quoted text>
I already know where to go to get a cake (a bakery) or some pictures taken (a photographer).
The only thing I don't readily know is whom that baker or photographer may discriminate against. That's why a sign stating what customers they won't serve would be helpful.
Btw, I wouldn't go to a gay baker who I know discriminates against Jews or to a photographer who discriminates against inter-racial couples anymore than I'd go to one who discriminates against gays & lesbians.
I would go to the one with the best product, all other things being close to equal, location, price, etc.

A sign that indicated the owners sexual orientation would make your choice easy.

“Headed toward the cliff”

Since: Nov 07

Tawas City, Michigan

#253 Mar 24, 2014
Wondering wrote:
<quoted text>
I would go to the one with the best product, all other things being close to equal, location, price, etc.
A sign that indicated the owners sexual orientation would make your choice easy.
How does that type of sign tell me whom the owner would discriminate against?

“Together for 24, legal for 5”

Since: Sep 07

Littleton, NH

#254 Mar 24, 2014
Wondering wrote:
<quoted text>
I like my sign idea better. Let the owners post a sign showing their sexual orientation. That way people can decide if they want to go to a shop owned by gays or straights. Remember when people went to shops because they liked their products or services? Ah, the old days.
Apparently, that's what the couple trying to order a cake did. Remember when vendors used to check the portraits on the cash and complete the transaction? Ahhh the good old days.

“Together for 24, legal for 5”

Since: Sep 07

Littleton, NH

#255 Mar 24, 2014
Wondering wrote:
<quoted text>
I would go to the one with the best product, all other things being close to equal, location, price, etc.
A sign that indicated the owners sexual orientation would make your choice easy.
If you owned a bakery, I wouldn't know that the owner was a jackass based on your sign. Not until I tried to purchase the wares you had for sale.

Maybe bigots should just put pictures of donkeys' rears on their doors.
Wondering

Tyngsboro, MA

#256 Mar 24, 2014
WeTheSheeple wrote:
<quoted text>
How does that type of sign tell me whom the owner would discriminate against?
It would tell you which owner would make you happy. Who someone discriminates against is his/her business.

“Unconvinced”

Since: Nov 09

Seattle, WA

#257 Mar 24, 2014
How about everyone just put out a sign explaining what their business sells, and they leave their interpersonal hang-ups at home? If someone has a problem with a particular cross-section of humanity, they ought to work that out before they apply for a business license. If they find that they are still anti-social, then maybe public commerce isn't the best life for them.
Wondering

Tyngsboro, MA

#258 Mar 24, 2014
nhjeff wrote:
<quoted text>
If you owned a bakery, I wouldn't know that the owner was a jackass based on your sign. Not until I tried to purchase the wares you had for sale.
Maybe bigots should just put pictures of donkeys' rears on their doors.
You go to the shops with the two men or two women on their signs. See, it's easy. No fuss, no mess.
A donkey would just tell you that the owner is a democrat. I've had my fill of Cadillac Deval.

Cookie_Parker

Since: Sep 08

Location hidden

#259 Mar 24, 2014
Dan wrote:
<quoted text>
There already was a sign in most places:
"We reserve the right to refuse service to anyone".
Again. If a business is REFUSING tax cuts, tax breaks, tax funding on the local, state or federal level, or all three, and has no ties to any remuneration from any level of government, they may try to do that. It will ruin their business, as it has Chic Filet, but they may have a right to do that. UNLESS they LEASE the building they are in and the LANDLORD has any remuneration from the government at any level. Discrimination is not allowed in this nation, as proven by the Civil Rights Act.

“Headed toward the cliff”

Since: Nov 07

Tawas City, Michigan

#260 Mar 24, 2014
Wondering wrote:
<quoted text>
It would tell you which owner would make you happy. Who someone discriminates against is his/her business.
So you're still afraid to admit your bigotry to the public.

How would a sign indication the owner's sexual orientation tell me which owner would make me happy?

Being treated like any other customer regardless of my sexual orientation, race, religion, gender, etc would make me happy. I don't see how a sign indicating the owner's sexual orientation would help in that regard.
hi hi

Lancaster, PA

#261 Mar 24, 2014
Wondering wrote:
<quoted text>
It would tell you which owner would make you happy. Who someone discriminates against is his/her business.
These people will serve criminals, but they act as if they are "tainted" by "gay." I have *Z-E-R-O* doubt these businesses, no matter *WHAT* they say, are engaging in antigay animus or homophobia.

No one else is ever a problem for them. Nobody. Nobody. This is the one big deal where they act like they're serving lepers.

It's the one situation in which they act like participation will somehow "bleed a sin onto them." In *NO OTHER* case do they behave in this way. It's so laughably antigay.
hi hi

Lancaster, PA

#262 Mar 24, 2014
The only argument that would ever convince me these antigay people *shouldn't* be involved in the weddings, I have not seen made yet. Not once.

“Headed toward the cliff”

Since: Nov 07

Tawas City, Michigan

#263 Mar 24, 2014
Wondering wrote:
<quoted text>
You go to the shops with the two men or two women on their signs. See, it's easy. No fuss, no mess.
A donkey would just tell you that the owner is a democrat. I've had my fill of Cadillac Deval.
Proving once again that bigots are also cowards.

Why didn't the bigot baker put up a sign saying "no gay wedding cakes"?

“Together for 24, legal for 5”

Since: Sep 07

Littleton, NH

#264 Mar 24, 2014
Wondering wrote:
<quoted text>
You go to the shops with the two men or two women on their signs. See, it's easy. No fuss, no mess.
A donkey would just tell you that the owner is a democrat. I've had my fill of Cadillac Deval.
Sorry. I don't choose to live in the gay ghetto. It's not necessary. Bigots like yourself are few--especially when it comes to conducting simple business transactions.

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