Too edgy? Too tame? Gay pride parades...

Too edgy? Too tame? Gay pride parades spark debate

There are 191 comments on the Tri-cityherald.com story from Sep 16, 2013, titled Too edgy? Too tame? Gay pride parades spark debate. In it, Tri-cityherald.com reports that:

Miss Veda Chardonnay, center, rides in a car during the 30th Annual Dallas Gay Pride Parade, Sunday, Sept.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Tri-cityherald.com.

“RAINBOW POWER!”

Since: Oct 08

I Am What I Am.

#151 Sep 19, 2013
Thank you, cpeter1313 and Fa-Foxy. I get tired of having to explain myself to people. I've been doing it for 40 years, and it really gets old.

“Headed toward the cliff”

Since: Nov 07

Tawas City, Michigan

#152 Sep 19, 2013
Wolfgang E B wrote:
<quoted text>
Where did you get that notion? Most trans people are far more content after treatment. Unfortunately, the few who aren't get all the publicity, so those are the ones you hear about, but they're actually quite rare.
Here in the US, there's a good system in place for evaluating and treating trans people. You really should learn more about this issue.
I googled the info; it's there for all to see. And apparently it's not limited to just a couple of people.

I've learned about as much as a non-transgendered person needs to in order to make an informed opinion.

It's obvious to me NO ONE knows why people are transgendered, what causes it, and not surprisingly can't seem to even agree on the appropriate treatment.

I'll wait till medical science figures it out.

“Headed toward the cliff”

Since: Nov 07

Tawas City, Michigan

#153 Sep 19, 2013
Wolfgang E B wrote:
Thank you, cpeter1313 and Fa-Foxy. I get tired of having to explain myself to people. I've been doing it for 40 years, and it really gets old.
If you've been explaining yourself for 40 years, then obviously your transition has been very successful.

“Reality is better than truth.”

Since: Nov 09

Indianapolis

#154 Sep 19, 2013
Once a company hires someone, why would you assume they are of any less value than anyone else in that position?

Are you saying there should be no minimum wage? The days of businesses operating without guidelines are over.
WeTheSheeple wrote:
<quoted text>
No, women AND men have the exact same burden to demonstrate their worth to their employer.
That discussion should be solely between the employer and the employee- NOT the government. If you believe the wage offered is too low, then are free to decline the job or renegotiate.
The govt simply has NO business dictating what companies pay their employees.

“Reality is better than truth.”

Since: Nov 09

Indianapolis

#155 Sep 19, 2013
Hey, we all gotta stick together, right?
Wolfgang E B wrote:
Thank you, cpeter1313 and Fa-Foxy. I get tired of having to explain myself to people. I've been doing it for 40 years, and it really gets old.

“Reality is better than truth.”

Since: Nov 09

Indianapolis

#156 Sep 19, 2013
We don't know why some people are born geniuses either; that doesn't make it a problem.

You obviously haven't scratched the surface concerning TG/TS research. There's over half a century of research; you have to go past google and into APA journals. There's also a ton of writings out there from transgenders themselves. I've known a few transgendered people and none were unhappy after transitioning.
WeTheSheeple wrote:
<quoted text>
I googled the info; it's there for all to see. And apparently it's not limited to just a couple of people.
I've learned about as much as a non-transgendered person needs to in order to make an informed opinion.
It's obvious to me NO ONE knows why people are transgendered, what causes it, and not surprisingly can't seem to even agree on the appropriate treatment.
I'll wait till medical science figures it out.

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#157 Sep 19, 2013
WeTheSheeple wrote:
I went to a pride parade in Chicago years ago; that's the last one I'll ever attend.
Nothing but a freak show highlighting the worst stereotypes of the lgtb "community".
And we wonder why so many states still discriminate against us?
Absolutely.

“RAINBOW POWER!”

Since: Oct 08

I Am What I Am.

#158 Sep 20, 2013
WeTheSheeple wrote:
<quoted text>
If you've been explaining yourself for 40 years, then obviously your transition has been very successful.
Not sure what you mean, but yes, my transition was successful in that I'm a trillion to the tenth power times happier now.

“RAINBOW POWER!”

Since: Oct 08

I Am What I Am.

#159 Sep 20, 2013
WeTheSheeple wrote:
I googled the info; it's there for all to see. And apparently it's not limited to just a couple of people.
I've learned about as much as a non-transgendered person needs to in order to make an informed opinion.
Here, download this and read it: http://www.nickgorton.org

It's one of the most authoritative works out there. It's specific to FtMs, but there's a little info about MtFs.

"Another concern sometimes expressed by providers as a reason for hesitating to provide hormonal therapy is the possibility that patients will be unhappy with the results of sexual reassignment and will regret having undertaken such treatment. This is especially a fear in transmen due to the efficacy of testosterone in producing dramatic and sometimes
irreversible male secondary sexual characteristics. However in actual practice, the vast majority of patients are satisfied with therapy and true regrets are quite rare."
--Medical Therapy and HM for Transgender Men, pg. 28

“Headed toward the cliff”

Since: Nov 07

Tawas City, Michigan

#160 Sep 20, 2013
cpeter1313 wrote:
Once a company hires someone, why would you assume they are of any less value than anyone else in that position?
Are you saying there should be no minimum wage? The days of businesses operating without guidelines are over.
<quoted text>
Where did I say I assumed they are of any less value than anyone else?

Oh right, I didn't. Here's some advice- try reading what I ACTUALLY write, instead of what you WANT me to write.

I'm say the person's value to a company should be determined in negotiations between that person & the company. And yes, people's value to a company can certainly change over time- for better or worse.

NO, there most definitely SHOULD NOT be a minimum wage dictated by the government. That simply is NONE OF THEIR BUSINESS.

If the govt can dictate a minimum wage, then why can't they also dictate a MAXIMUM wage??

Do you want some govt bean counter to tell your boss the MOST he can pay you is X amount of dollars because they feel you make too much?

It's NOT a ridiculous idea; remember all the talk about limiting CEO pay/compensation during the bailout talks. If they can do it for CEOs then why can't they limit pay for anyone else the govt thinks makes too much.

“Headed toward the cliff”

Since: Nov 07

Tawas City, Michigan

#161 Sep 20, 2013
cpeter1313 wrote:
We don't know why some people are born geniuses either; that doesn't make it a problem.
You obviously haven't scratched the surface concerning TG/TS research. There's over half a century of research; you have to go past google and into APA journals. There's also a ton of writings out there from transgenders themselves. I've known a few transgendered people and none were unhappy after transitioning.
<quoted text>
Being a genius doesn't usually cause too many problems for the people involved, though some do have more difficulty relating to the rest of us idiots.

According to research I've read, many post-surgical transgendered ARE just as unhappy after transitioning.

Maybe those people you know just didn't want to admit to you how unhappy they still were after all they must have went through? Isn't that possible??

Either way, I don't really care whether people have surgery or not; whatever makes them happy. As long as my tax dollars aren't paying for it.

My main point is we just don't know whether this is anything more than a just another psychiatric disorder.

“Headed toward the cliff”

Since: Nov 07

Tawas City, Michigan

#162 Sep 20, 2013
Wolfgang E B wrote:
<quoted text>
Not sure what you mean, but yes, my transition was successful in that I'm a trillion to the tenth power times happier now.
I made a typo.

I'm glad you're happier now, but why are you still having to explain yourself after 40 years if your transition was so successful?

“Headed toward the cliff”

Since: Nov 07

Tawas City, Michigan

#163 Sep 20, 2013
Wolfgang E B wrote:
<quoted text>
Here, download this and read it: http://www.nickgorton.org
It's one of the most authoritative works out there. It's specific to FtMs, but there's a little info about MtFs.
"Another concern sometimes expressed by providers as a reason for hesitating to provide hormonal therapy is the possibility that patients will be unhappy with the results of sexual reassignment and will regret having undertaken such treatment. This is especially a fear in transmen due to the efficacy of testosterone in producing dramatic and sometimes
irreversible male secondary sexual characteristics. However in actual practice, the vast majority of patients are satisfied with therapy and true regrets are quite rare."
--Medical Therapy and HM for Transgender Men, pg. 28
That group would appear to have an obvious bias.

Even IF they are happier, I come back to my main point- is it anything more than just another psychiatric disorder?

And before you come back with ditto for sexual orientation, sexual attraction can be measured scientifically by physical responses.

How do we scientifically determine if a person is really a "man trapped in a woman's body", or vice versa?

Since: Jun 11

AOL

#164 Sep 20, 2013
Casey, 505 U.S. 833, 851 (1992):“These matters, involving the most intimate and personal choices a person may make in a lifetime, choices central to personal dignity and autonomy, are central to the liberty protected by the Fourteenth Amendment. At the heart of liberty is the right to define one’s own concept of existence, of meaning, of the universe, and of the mystery of human life.”

Even if you believe gender identity and expression are "just another psychiatric disorder", it helps to remember civil rights are not restricted on the basis of "psychiatric disorder".

“RAINBOW POWER!”

Since: Oct 08

I Am What I Am.

#165 Sep 20, 2013
WeTheSheeple wrote:
<quoted text>
I made a typo.
I'm glad you're happier now, but why are you still having to explain yourself after 40 years if your transition was so successful?
Because of people like you who think transsexualism is a "psychological disorder."

“RAINBOW POWER!”

Since: Oct 08

I Am What I Am.

#166 Sep 20, 2013
WeTheSheeple wrote:
Either way, I don't really care whether people have surgery or not; whatever makes them happy. As long as my tax dollars aren't paying for it.
There are plenty of things I don't want my tax dollars paying for, but unfortunately, I don't get to decide... and neither do you. You can always make sure you're voting for anti-trans bigots, but most of those are also anti-gay bigots as well.

We're all in this together after all, whether you like it or not, and I won't turn against my gay and lesbian brothers and sisters even if some of them are jerks. Now, where were we, before you derailed this thread with your attempt to divide our community?

“Headed toward the cliff”

Since: Nov 07

Tawas City, Michigan

#167 Sep 20, 2013
Not Yet Equal wrote:
Casey, 505 U.S. 833, 851 (1992):“These matters, involving the most intimate and personal choices a person may make in a lifetime, choices central to personal dignity and autonomy, are central to the liberty protected by the Fourteenth Amendment. At the heart of liberty is the right to define one’s own concept of existence, of meaning, of the universe, and of the mystery of human life.”
Even if you believe gender identity and expression are "just another psychiatric disorder", it helps to remember civil rights are not restricted on the basis of "psychiatric disorder".
So you'd entrust your children or give a loaded weapon to a person who believes they're really a lamppost or an emu or an alien from the planet Spunky?

Crazy people have always had their rights limited for their own protection and the protection of others.

“ WOOF ! ”

Since: Nov 12

Coolidge, AZ

#168 Sep 20, 2013
WeTheSheeple wrote:
<quoted text>
So you'd entrust your children or give a loaded weapon to a person who believes they're really a lamppost or an emu or an alien from the planet Spunky?
Crazy people have always had their rights limited for their own protection and the protection of others.
Then why are Democrats allowed to run for office and vote ?!

“Reality is better than truth.”

Since: Nov 09

Indianapolis

#169 Sep 20, 2013
Which is, of course why therapy involves both hormonal therapy and counseling. As long as expectations are realistic, things should stay positive.
Wolfgang E B wrote:
<quoted text>
Here, download this and read it: http://www.nickgorton.org
It's one of the most authoritative works out there. It's specific to FtMs, but there's a little info about MtFs.
"Another concern sometimes expressed by providers as a reason for hesitating to provide hormonal therapy is the possibility that patients will be unhappy with the results of sexual reassignment and will regret having undertaken such treatment. This is especially a fear in transmen due to the efficacy of testosterone in producing dramatic and sometimes
irreversible male secondary sexual characteristics. However in actual practice, the vast majority of patients are satisfied with therapy and true regrets are quite rare."
--Medical Therapy and HM for Transgender Men, pg. 28

“Reality is better than truth.”

Since: Nov 09

Indianapolis

#170 Sep 20, 2013
If there is a need to prove one's value, there must be a question of said value.

Sorry, but laissez-faire economic are a dead issue in this country. Too many companies shafted too many peons. The minimum wage is a direct outcome of that piss-on-the-workers mentality. Without it, then taxes WILL increase because more people will need assistance just to survive. There is no government interest in limiting income. However, I think tax shelters should be eliminated.
WeTheSheeple wrote:
<quoted text>
Where did I say I assumed they are of any less value than anyone else?
Oh right, I didn't. Here's some advice- try reading what I ACTUALLY write, instead of what you WANT me to write.
I'm say the person's value to a company should be determined in negotiations between that person & the company. And yes, people's value to a company can certainly change over time- for better or worse.
NO, there most definitely SHOULD NOT be a minimum wage dictated by the government. That simply is NONE OF THEIR BUSINESS.
If the govt can dictate a minimum wage, then why can't they also dictate a MAXIMUM wage??
Do you want some govt bean counter to tell your boss the MOST he can pay you is X amount of dollars because they feel you make too much?
It's NOT a ridiculous idea; remember all the talk about limiting CEO pay/compensation during the bailout talks. If they can do it for CEOs then why can't they limit pay for anyone else the govt thinks makes too much.

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