Leftwing Atheist PhD Confirm Therapy Works!

[Mason]

How long does it take?
The length of the transition varies depending on many factors, such as the following:

your motivation and commitment to the process.
your willingness to take responsibility for your life.
your efforts in personal study, prayer, pondering, and journaling.
the closeness of your relationship with your Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ.
the amount and quality of individual and group therapy you receive.
the level of support you receive from those who are close to you and from support groups.
your efforts to reach out and build new relationships.
the degree to which you have accepted a homosexual identity.
the amount of abuse in your past and the severity of problems it has caused.
your willingness to leave your homosexual past behind.
the length and degree to which you have been involved in homosexual behaviors.
the degree to which you have addictions and compulsions.
Those who are able to define their problems and begin working on them early, before compulsive behaviors turn into addictions and before attitudes turn into identity, may be able to make the transition in a matter of months. Those who begin the process later in life after years of sexual habits and mental conditioning find it takes much work and substantially more time. Most men I have spoken with report it takes somewhere from three to ten years. However, don�t set time frames for yourself and expect that changes will happen within a certain period of time. Your problems didn�t develop overnight and they likely won�t be resolved in a short time.

[Mason]

How complete will the change be?
For most people, going through this transition process does not guarantee that they will never again have a homosexual thought. Joe Dallas explained, "If a man has been a drunkard for 20 years, then joins Alcoholics Anonymous and stays sober, he has definitely changed. His sobriety will have an impact on all parts of his life, improving his attitude, relationships, and job performance. Will an occasional desire for a drink nullify his claim to have changed? Hardly."19 Dr. Dean Byrd said, "It�s not so unlike treatment outcomes for other emotional struggles. Do we expect the individual to never struggle again? No, we simply expect that they will have the resources to respond to their struggles appropriately."20

Don�t measure your progress simply by the types of temptation you still experience. Remember that temptation is not sin. Satan will likely try to remind you of your past and try to get you to doubt whether you have really changed. But remember that everyone is tempted. Christ was tempted His entire life but did not succumb to temptation. Life is a continual process of putting off the natural man and moving toward God. Temptations do not define us; we are defined by how we respond to the temptations. Therefore, if you dismiss the homosexual temptations and act responsibly, you can be confident that the changes you have experienced are real.

As Joe Dallas explained, "All Christians deal with sin, all Christians have stubborn areas of weakness, and all Christians at times feel overwhelmed by their personal issues.... Yet all Christians don�t feel as though they must either completely overcome their weaknesses or else abandon the faith."21 In the book A Place in the Kingdom, Leo Hall explains that his homosexual attractions have not disappeared. "I choose not to worry about when or if my SSA [same-sex attraction] feelings will go away. My immediate hope is that, day by day, I can control or master any sexualized thoughts or behaviors that come. I am learning to replace unwanted feelings with concern, love, and empathy toward all men.... In fact, I do not wish my SSA feelings to simply disappear. Rather, I hope that they will be replaced by or enhanced into a more celestial love."22

http://www.evergreeninternational.org/overcom...

[Rick in Kansas]

Mason, Mason, Mason, I guess your other imaginary friends didn't bother to tell you but we've already been over the Evergreen deceptive "proof" before. But since you decided to go with the extended version this time which covers a couple of other alleged "studies" let's take a moment to review, for your benefit.

Dr. William Consiglio did not conduct a "study", this merely a self-reporting that he made to an Exodus conference back in the 90s. The source of Dr. Consiglio's 40% "success rate" claim is not from his patients, but from the good doctor himself so there is absolutely NO independent confirmation of this. In addition to his completely unsubstantiated claim that he successfully turned out heterosexuals at a 40% rate he also claimed being a "success" at guilting 40% of his clients into celibacy. I don't know about you, but celibacy is not the opposite of being homosexual and I highly doubt that any of his clients had that as a goal in mind going into treatment. So for the good doctor to claim that as a "successful" result of his treatment is rather disturbing to say the least.

Dr. Ruben Fine is merely stating his beliefs on the subject not discussing the results of any paricular study he has done on the subject. While he states that he believes "a considerable percentage" of overt homosexuals will become heterosexual as a result of therapy, he is merely stating an opinion based on his readings of other people's work. He is not stating for what that percentage that will be nor is he offering any proof based on any confirmation that he has done on the subject.

Dr. Houston MacIntosh's work is based on interviews with patients regarding self-reporting of their own claims to results, not of their clients. The validity of such a study is extremely dubious at best as there is absolutely no confirmation of those claims of success by those for whom that success is being claimed. This study is sort of like asking used car dealers the quality of cars that they have sold in the past rather than the consumers who purchased them. Of course the therapists, much like Dr. Consiglio mentioned above, are going to report they've been hightly successful whether they were or not as the study made absolutely no attempt to check their claims.

continued on next post....

[Stone]

Sick Hick in a Kansas trailer park wrote:

Mason, Mason, Mason, I guess your other imaginary friends didn't bother to tell you but we've already been over the Evergreen deceptive "proof" before..

Hick, Hick, Hick, you are a broken record. You have to be a complete fanatic to think that any hommofascist complaint somehow trumps science.

To those of us in the real world, the case is clear.

EVERY peer reviewed scientific study on the subject confirms the effectiveness of the professional therapy offered by tens of thousands of professionals in every city in America.

Why does that fact threaten you so? Just because you've chosen to waste your life on your perverted obsession and have wound up old, decimated, and despised in a Kansas trailer park?

[Rick in Kansas]

Soon to be Dr. Elizabeth James did her book report on other people's work back in 1978 well before the techniques of "reparative therapy" were developed. Many of the studies that she reviewed were conducted on institutionalized patients and utilized techniques that that would be considered extremely unethical today, including electro-shock therapy, drug treatments, forced sterilizations and lobotomies. While her research may have been extensive, it was done on studies that would by no stretch of the imagination be viewed as credible today nor can they be used to show that reparative therapy works as they were all conducted prior to its first use.

Drs. Thomas and Ann Pritt are merely offering their opinions on the subject that doesn't appear based on anything but their own personal bias. There is no evidence they have conducted any research in this area and they certainly have never produced a per reviewed study on the subject.

[Rick in Kansas]

Well Stoned, the problem is that your so-called proof from your new found friends over at Evergreen contained very little in the way of actual science to begin with. You may feel, for some odd reason, that would be a "hommofascist complaint" and "not science", but it doesn't change the reality of what you actually provided. The list of alleged "studies" from Evergreen actually contains only three that can even claim to be studies. The work of Irving Bieber from 1962 that was done on patients who were otherwise insttutionalized nearly three decades before reparative therapy techniques were first utilized and cannot be seen as valid today as the techniques he used are no longer accepted today. Dr. Houston MacIntosh's study of self reports of therapists and THEIR claims of success, which cannot be verified by the reports of those for whom they claim were succesful. Finally the work of Masters and Johnson which has never been replicated and may have not produced any success for the few actual homosexuals who participated. The rest of what they and in you in turn claimed to be science amounted, to nothing more than the unsubstantiated claims of therapists patting themselves on the back for their own self-reported successes, that simply cannot be verified by those for whom they claimed to be successful, a couple of opinions and a doctoral dissertation done back in 1978 that reviewed "studies" that dated back to 1930. In other words, comments that had as much to do with science as they had to do with brick laying and they really didn't have jack to do with brick laying.

Stoned, if you believe that you and your imaginary little troll friends are somehow exsisting in the real world, you are suffering from yet another delusion. In the real real world, proof needs to based on fact not on opinion and unsubstantiated claims and the science actually needs to be relavent to what is being discussed, not how effective electro-shock therapy is effective in somehow convincing homosexuals they may not actually be homosexual.

Give it up Stoned, you're only being successful in embarrassing yourself and proving yourself to be an ignorant tool of dangerous and deceptive organizations...

[blasterboy1984]

Stone wrote:

<quoted text>
Hick, Hick, Hick, you are a broken record. You have to be a complete fanatic to think that any hommofascist complaint somehow trumps science.
To those of us in the real world, the case is clear.
EVERY peer reviewed scientific study on the subject confirms the effectiveness of the professional therapy offered by tens of thousands of professionals in every city in America.
Why does that fact threaten you so? Just because you've chosen to waste your life on your perverted obsession and have wound up old, decimated, and despised in a Kansas trailer park?

Why is it you can finally go and post something that might actually support your position but when required to perhaps defend it you resort to the same tired insults? If the material you posted is defensible then defend it.

[LuLu Ford]

Nothing has change troll. Your arguments are without any reasonable substantiation and your posts are feckless.

[LuLu Ford]

Over twenty other posters all agree you have not defended your premise.

[LuLu Ford]

Over twenty other posters agree many of your posts are disrespectul and fraudulent.

[Vance]

LuLu Ford wrote:

Over twenty other posters agree many of your posts are disrespectul and fraudulent.

All you can do is post hate and a horrible picture of a man dressed pathetically as a woman.

*ALL* peer reviewed scientific studies on the subject confirm the effectiveness of professional therapy for homosexuals who want to change.

You choose to life a lifestyle that is in open rebellion against God. Others with same sex attractions don't want to go to hell. Why not leave them alone and let them make their own choices?

[LuLu Ford]

An army of one does not an army make. Keep up with the lies and insults, we are all laughing our asses off.

[LuLu Ford]

You never answered my question "Vance". Are you now or have you ever been gay?

[Rick in Kansas]

Vance wrote:

...

I went to all that work to refute each and every "study" that your new found friends over at Evergreen had to offer in support of their efforts to "repair" homosexuals and other than Stoned spouting off before I was finished, you've made no attempt whatsoever to refute anything I had to say. Could it be you're just in mourning over the California Supreme Court decision or the reality that you have to face in that none of my criticisms of their so-called studies can actually be refuted???

[Morton]

Sick Hick in a Kansas trailer wrote:

<quoted text>
I went to all that work to refute each and every "study" that your new found friends over at Evergreen had to offer in support of their efforts to "repair" homosexuals and other than Stoned spouting off before I was finished, you've made no attempt whatsoever to refute anything I had to say. Could it be you're just in mourning over the California Supreme Court decision or the reality that you have to face in that none of my criticisms of their so-called studies can actually be refuted???

Hick, you refuted nothing. You're just a hommofascist fundamentalist and place your hate based philosophies ahead of science and reason. That refutes nothing. It just exhibits what a rabid fanatic you are about your hate based cause.

The bottom line is still the same, Hick.

Every peer reviewed scientific study on the subject confirms the effectiveness of profeesional therapy for homosexuals who want to change.

Keep banging your head against the trailer, Hick. You'll never change that fact.

[ACLU-Tom]

So, Wil, what do scientific studies and God have in common? Absolutely nothing, one is fact based, the other is faith based.

You haven't show proof of your scientific claims, and you certainly haven't shown even the slightest bit of Christian love here. You're a fraud.

Vance wrote:

<quoted text>
*ALL* peer reviewed scientific studies on the subject confirm the effectiveness of professional therapy for homosexuals who want to change.
You choose to life a lifestyle that is in open rebellion against God. Others with same sex attractions don't want to go to hell. Why not leave them alone and let them make their own choices?

[BORNGAY]

Vance wrote:

<quoted text>
All you can do is post hate and a horrible picture of a man dressed pathetically as a woman.
*ALL* peer reviewed scientific studies on the subject confirm the effectiveness of professional therapy for homosexuals who want to change.
You choose to life a lifestyle that is in open rebellion against God. Others with same sex attractions don't want to go to hell. Why not leave them alone and let them make their own choices?

imbecile!!! you've lost it years ago!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch...

[BORNGAY]

Morton wrote:

<quoted text>
Hick, you refuted nothing. You're just a hommofascist fundamentalist and place your hate based philosophies ahead of science and reason. That refutes nothing. It just exhibits what a rabid fanatic you are about your hate based cause.
The bottom line is still the same, Hick.
Every peer reviewed scientific study on the subject confirms the effectiveness of profeesional therapy for homosexuals who want to change.
Keep banging your head against the trailer, Hick. You'll never change that fact.

You think you can change reality and you can't you dimwit!.. go ahead blame everyone else for your own misery and self loathing.. You know this sh!t is nothing but sh!t. Since you believe in this sh!t so much, play in it, sleep in it & eat it!
If you are that STUPID (which you are) to think people fall for this goose poop, you are honking up the wrong tree....or do you just like to be around gays to reinforce your own homosexuality and hide behind a bible???? NUTFUCK!!!!

[BABY JANE HUDSON]

There is one poster on these boards that has a special quality that could probably get others to fall in love with him but I can't say which poster it is because then everyone would get mad at that poster although, I believe that poster could defend itself very well.

There are a couple good posters around here but can't say who they are because of the trolls and jealousy over at another place.

[Rick in Kansas]

Morton wrote:

...

There you go again pretending that logic, reason and fact do not exsist and that your delusions and pathological lies trump reality. I have accurately pointed out that what your new found friends over at Evergreen inaccurately call "studies" that they claim support their efforts to "repair" homosexuals were for the most part not studies at all, but the self-reporting of therapsts who have a serious stake in making themselves and their purported therapy look good, the opinions of a couple of people based on how they interpret the work of others and a seriously outdated doctoral dissertation on some even more seriously outdated studies none of which involved the kind of therapy Evergreen recommends. Of the three studies they do actually cite, none were ever peer reviewed, one was published the year I was born and was a study of people who were institutionalized and did not utilize the type of therapy Evergreen advocates, a second study was made up of 67 participants only 5 of whom were actually homosexual before therapy and may still have been afterwards and also not utilizing reparative therapy and the third was a "survey" of therapists self-reporting their own reparative therapy "successes" but without confirmation from those for whom "success" was claimed.

In short, Evergreen is as deceptive and disingenuous as you are and you have yet to refute even one word of what I have said.

The one who seems to be banging their head against a wall would be you and all of your imaginary friends. It's the only rational explanation for your continued and insistant belief in your own pathological lies and delusions, head injury. Since you can't dispute or refute any of the facts, logic or reason brought before you, you attempt to distract us with a constant stream of annoying noise.