French Gay Marriage Bill Presented to Parliament

There are 20 comments on the EDGE story from Jan 29, 2013, titled French Gay Marriage Bill Presented to Parliament. In it, EDGE reports that:

People demonstrate in support of a government project to legalize same-sex marriage and adoption for same-sex couples in Paris.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at EDGE.

Since: Jun 11

AOL

#47 Jan 30, 2013
straight shooter wrote:
<quoted text>
WAY WAY off...
I simply recognize that gay couples as compared to drunk and abusive straights would likely be better parents..
or NO parents is worse than ANY parents (in general)...
BUT when there are two couples equal in every other way but gender, I think we should prefer the opposite sex couple...
How would you propose we do that if they are ALL the same under "marriage"?
to repeat, nothing you wrote above has any bearing on what I am talking about...(again)
You have nothing to support your belief "all things being equal" straight parents would be better than same sex parents. It is your belief, but is not supported by the evidence. There is even some evidence to suggest two moms is better than a mom and a dad.

But what the evidence clearly shows is that it is the relationship between the parent and child that determines success, not the gender of the parents.

And again, yes, two are better than one (all other things equal).

But with about 100,000 available children going without adoption every year, we don't need to prefer opposite sex parent homes over same sex parent homes. Adoption is done on a case by case basis. Again, the important variable is finding a home where the child will be wanted and cared for properly, not the gender of the parents.

Since: Jun 11

AOL

#48 Jan 30, 2013
"Overall, studies indicate that children raised with lesbian co-parents do just as well as children raised by heterosexual married couples. The children of lesbian co-parents may even have fewer behavioral problems and higher self-esteem." http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/35124737/ns/healt...

"Parenting by same-sex families is just as good -- if not slightly advantageous -- for children when compared to heterosexual families, a Justice Department study has concluded." http://www.canada.com/theprovince/news/story....

Since: Jun 11

AOL

#49 Jan 30, 2013
Testamony from the Hawaii Supreme Court marriage case from those opposed to marriage equality:

"Dr Eggebeen (witness against marriage equality) also conceded that "gay and lesbian couples can, and do, make excellent parents" "that they are capable of raising a healthy child", and "that children of same sex couples would be helped if their families had access to or were able to receive benefits of marriage".

Dr. Charlotte Patterson: there was "no data or research which establishes that gay fathers and lesbian mothers are less capable of being good parents than non-gay people."

Dr. David Brodzinsky: "The issue is not the structural variable, biological versus nonbiological, one parent versus two parent. The issue is really the process variables, how children are cared for, is the child provided warmth, it the child provided consistency of care, is the child provided a stimulated environment, is the e child given support.... and when you take a look at structural variables, there's not all that much support that structural variable in and of themselves are all that important."

Dr. Pepper Shwartz: "the primary quality of parenting is not the parenting structure, or biology, but is the nurturing relationship between parent and child."

And remember, that was from those opposed to equality! There is no excuse beyond a traditional but harmful irrational prejudice.
Jane Dodo

Hoboken, NJ

#50 Jan 31, 2013
straight shooter wrote:
<quoted text>
WAY WAY off...
I simply recognize that gay couples as compared to drunk and abusive straights would likely be better parents..
or NO parents is worse than ANY parents (in general)...
BUT when there are two couples equal in every other way but gender, I think we should prefer the opposite sex couple...
Oh, I see now. You think straights should have "special" rights based on their sexual orientation.
straight shooter

Montpelier, VT

#51 Jan 31, 2013
EdmondWA wrote:
<quoted text>
So, how does marriage "prefer" opposite-sex couples?
If same-sex couples in a CU are granted every last single listable identical right that an opposite-sex marriage is granted... if they can raise children, receive federal benefits, retain their rights in any state, etc etc etc... then how does this "preference" MANIFEST?
Again, this comes back to my original question... what are the SPECIFIC DIFFERENCES between marriage and CU's? Is it JUST the name "marriage", and NOTHING ELSE? If that's ALL there is, how does that count as a "preference"? What is the BENEFIT of obtaining this "preference"? How would a same-sex couple feel UN-prefered by having a CU, if they can do EVERYTHING a "married" couple can do, and if they receive EVERY federal and state benefit that a "marriage" receives?
adoption.
when there are two couples equal in every other way but gender, I think we should prefer the opposite sex couple...
straight shooter

Montpelier, VT

#52 Jan 31, 2013
Jane Dodo wrote:
<quoted text>
Oh, I see now. You think straights should have "special" rights based on their sexual orientation.
is THAT what YOU read?

I always thought you were just being a fraud but now I can see you are just very very very dumb...
straight shooter

Montpelier, VT

#53 Jan 31, 2013
Not Yet Equal wrote:
<quoted text>
You have nothing to support your belief "all things being equal" straight parents would be better than same sex parents.
to the contrary, you have nothing that show that is not the case...
or do you want to show me a study comparing married gays to married straights?
Jane Dodo

Hoboken, NJ

#54 Jan 31, 2013
straight shooter wrote:
<quoted text>
is THAT what YOU read?
I always thought you were just being a fraud but now I can see you are just very very very dumb...
What do you read?

"BUT when there are two couples equal in every other way but gender, I think we should prefer the opposite sex couple..."

All things being equal we should prefer the opposite sex couple? And that's not singling them out for "special" consideration, all things being equal? Give it up, wack-a-doodle.
Jane Dodo

Hoboken, NJ

#55 Jan 31, 2013
straight shooter wrote:
<quoted text>
to the contrary, you have nothing that show that is not the case...
or do you want to show me a study comparing married gays to married straights?
Does the fake lawyer need a lesson in burden of proof?
straight shooter

Montpelier, VT

#56 Jan 31, 2013
Jane Dodo wrote:
<quoted text>
What do you read?
"BUT when there are two couples equal in every other way but gender, I think we should prefer the opposite sex couple..."
All things being equal we should prefer the opposite sex couple? And that's not singling them out for "special" consideration, all things being equal? Give it up, wack-a-doodle.
another dumb interpretation....
you excel at that..i used to think you were strawmaning but now I see you are just dumb...

what part of providing another and father relates to sexual orientation?
when a gay is in a straight marriage (like you all love to claim is how you get your kids), they too would get the preference...

not a big "thinker", are ya?
So again, when you try to say what I said, it just comes out dumb...which is fine , but it is NEVER what I said, it is just another dumb comment by you...
straight shooter

Montpelier, VT

#57 Jan 31, 2013
Jane Dodo wrote:
<quoted text>Does the fake lawyer need a lesson in burden of proof?
No the real lawyer understands the civil and criminal burdens you are thinking of have no bearing in con-law...

so, you are just ignorant... again...

you will need to show the absence of a RATIONAL BASIS, which is tough when you have NO STUDY on point...
Jane Dodo

Hoboken, NJ

#58 Jan 31, 2013
straight shooter wrote:
<quoted text>
another dumb interpretation....
you excel at that..i used to think you were strawmaning but now I see you are just dumb...
what part of providing another and father relates to sexual orientation?
when a gay is in a straight marriage (like you all love to claim is how you get your kids), they too would get the preference...
not a big "thinker", are ya?
So again, when you try to say what I said, it just comes out dumb...which is fine , but it is NEVER what I said, it is just another dumb comment by you...
Yeah, right. I'm so sure that's what you had in mind. A lesbian and a gay man should be given preferrence over two men or two women. Nice try, but I'm not buying your shit.

You know, if you stopped making ridiculous unsupported comments, you wouldn't get picked on as much.
Jane Dodo

Hoboken, NJ

#59 Jan 31, 2013
straight shooter wrote:
<quoted text>
No the real lawyer understands the civil and criminal burdens you are thinking of have no bearing in con-law...
so, you are just ignorant... again...
you will need to show the absence of a RATIONAL BASIS, which is tough when you have NO STUDY on point...
Damn.... I forgot who I was writing to.... of course YOU don't need to prove anything. Everything that comes out of you is unquestionable truth. In fact I now remember reading that in the Constitution: SS isn't required to prove anything. He's "special" don't ya know.

OH, by the way, there is no "rational basis" for singling out gay couples for denial of a marriage license.
straight shooter

Montpelier, VT

#60 Jan 31, 2013
Jane Dodo wrote:
<quoted text>
Yeah, right. I'm so sure that's what you had in mind..
yup, starting to catch that you simply are too dumb to understand?

you apparently are...
straight shooter

Montpelier, VT

#61 Jan 31, 2013
Jane Dodo wrote:
<quoted text>
Damn.... I forgot who I was writing to.... of course YOU don't need to prove anything. Everything that comes out of you is unquestionable truth. In fact I now remember reading that in the Constitution: SS isn't required to prove anything. He's "special" don't ya know.
OH, by the way, there is no "rational basis" for singling out gay couples for denial of a marriage license.
this is just dumb...but that always applies to your posts...

again trying to say what your little brain thinks I said...

how about you look into rational basis review moron...
instead of pretending I chose the legal burdens...

there is a reality, and with the law, there is an answer to this, and big shocker, you don't know the answer....and I do..
just another day...

what job did you have at GE?

Since: Jun 11

AOL

#63 Jan 31, 2013
straight shooter wrote:
<quoted text>
adoption.
when there are two couples equal in every other way but gender, I think we should prefer the opposite sex couple...
Again, with around 100,000 every year going without adoptive homes, there is no need for a waiting line. There are plenty of kids discarded by their straight parents. Adoption is done on a case by case basis.

Since: Jun 11

AOL

#64 Jan 31, 2013
straight shooter wrote:
<quoted text>
to the contrary, you have nothing that show that is not the case...
or do you want to show me a study comparing married gays to married straights?
The above studies compare intact homes to intact homes. Even in those cases where marriage is withheld, the kids do just as well in same sex parent homes as in straight parent homes.

“Unconvinced”

Since: Nov 09

Seattle, WA

#65 Jan 31, 2013
straight shooter wrote:
adoption.
when there are two couples equal in every other way but gender, I think we should prefer the opposite sex couple...
So you're saying that "married" couples may adopt, and "CU" couples may not?

And that's IT? THAT'S the VAST difference between the two? THAT'S what makes us "100% not fit"? That single, tiny qualifier warrants the creation of an entirely new bureaucracy?

What about the states where adoption by gay couples is currently legal? That list includes my home state of Washington, as well as Arkansas, California, Connecticut, Delaware, Florida, Hawaii, Illinois, Indiana, Iowa, Maine, Massachusetts, Nevada, New Hampshire, New Jersey, New York, Oregon, Rhode Island, and Vermont, along with DC and even Guam.

If gay couples who are ALREADY raising children in those states get themselves one of your CU's, what should they do? Give their kids BACK? Pay a fine? Go to jail? Should they be "grandfathered" in, while newer CU couples just miss out?

What about gay couples where one of them is the biological parent of the child they are raising together? Are they exempt?

What if a heterosexual couple opts for a CU? Will they be forbidden from adopting? Will they be forbidden from getting a CU?

What about cases where a gay couple has been selected as godparents of a heterosexual couple's children? Will they be forbidden from being named guardians of those children?

These are just the few questions I could think of in about 5 minutes. An expert in family law would probably think of dozens more, and faster than I did.

I don't believe you have this properly thought out.
straight shooter

Montpelier, VT

#66 Jan 31, 2013
Not Yet Equal wrote:
<quoted text>
Adoption is done on a case by case basis.
indeed, that's why in any particular case, when ALL OTHER THINGS are equal..
you get the rest of it I trust...
straight shooter

Montpelier, VT

#67 Jan 31, 2013
Not Yet Equal wrote:
<quoted text>
The above studies compare intact homes to intact homes.
please provide the study. As you well know, many of the studies addressed divorced homes but not when one of the gay parents is not present...
and given that you guys love to say the regenrus study is not reliable as the groups it compares are not spot on ....
I would suggest you need to apply that critique to the MARRIAGE context as well...

its curious that we have had gay marriage for so long and have no data on this when we had tons of data on how CU's were not good enough well before 7 years...isn't it?

Tell me when this thread is updated:

Subscribe Now Add to my Tracker

Add your comments below

Characters left: 4000

Please note by submitting this form you acknowledge that you have read the Terms of Service and the comment you are posting is in compliance with such terms. Be polite. Inappropriate posts may be removed by the moderator. Send us your feedback.

Gay/Lesbian Discussions

Title Updated Last By Comments
News Homosexuality and the Bible (Aug '11) 3 min Blackburn 32,409
News Australian leader brushes off snub to diplomat'... 6 min Belle Sexton 1
News Woman Files Federal Suit Against All Gays 21 min david traversa 46
News How Iran Solved Its Gay Marriage Problem 1 hr Be auty QUEEN 29
News Shop owner will deny - openly gay' customers 1 hr Brian_G 78
News Mormon church backs Utah LGBT anti-discriminati... 2 hr tongangodz 3,196
News Conservative Columnist Guy Benson Says He's Gay 3 hr david traversa 9
News Gay marriage foe's argument seems to leave Supr... 3 hr Belle Sexton 178
News Gay marriage (Mar '13) 3 hr Belle Sexton 59,654
Are the mods fair and balanced? 7 hr Frankie Rizzo 851
News Colo. gay discrimination alleged over wedding cake (Jun '13) 9 hr Terra Firma 20,750
More from around the web