“I don’t believe God hates me anymore”

“I don’t believe God hates me anymore”

There are 69 comments on the www.nytimes.com story from May 24, 2010, titled “I don’t believe God hates me anymore”. In it, www.nytimes.com reports that:

On the cusp of summer in 2004, more than a year into his latest tour as a Christian pop star, Ray Boltz took a break for what was supposed to be a family vacation. All through the previous months, plying the country with two semi-trailers and a dozen musicians and crew members, playing hits like “Thank You” and “The Anchor Holds,” Mr. Boltz had felt something unbearable, something paralyzing.

Carol Boltz, his wife of 30 years and his best friend, sensed the isolation and yet could not reckon its cause. The life Ray was leading, after all, was the life they had set out on together way back when he was a teenager with a guitar at a Christian coffeehouse near their Indiana hometown. That life had brought awards, gold records, a comfortable home for their four children.

So she gathered herself and asked him what was wrong. “If I tell you about certain things I’m going through,” he told her, as she recalled in a recent interview, “you won’t love me anymore.”

Join the discussion below, or Read more at www.nytimes.com.

The Troll Stopper

Blacksburg, VA

#42 Apr 23, 2013
buck wrote:
ok done replying to you edmondwa
you are only yap yap yap blah blah blah....
Hey, if you don't feel like your debating skills are up to snuff, then don't go away mad. Just go away.
buck

AOL

#43 Apr 23, 2013
buck wrote:
ok done replying to you edmondwa
you are only here to create havoc with your anti God beliefs.
how can you comment on something that you are not educated in? yeah talking about the Bible edmondwa.
this is for the VA troll troublemaker LOL
if you're gonna cut and paste, don't add on what I didn't say. here is what I said
you added the blah blah line you're nothing but trouble here
buck

AOL

#44 Apr 23, 2013
oh btw I didn't leave duh or go away mad it's tiring hearing you all repeat the same stuff. edmondwa is anti God
are you with him or not?
you know nothing about me much less to comment on my skills of any kind.

“Unconvinced”

Since: Nov 09

Seattle, WA

#45 Apr 23, 2013
buck wrote:
oh btw I didn't leave duh or go away mad it's tiring hearing you all repeat the same stuff. edmondwa is anti God
are you with him or not?
you know nothing about me much less to comment on my skills of any kind.
Do you think I'm also "anti Allah" and "anti Zeus" and "anti Ra"? I bet you're "anti Zeus" too, you might even be "anti Quetzalcoatl".

Other people in other places in the world, once did or still do believe in other gods than the one you believe in. Are they wrong? How do we find out? How do we find out FOR SURE?

Anyone who is "with me" supports asking questions, and expecting satisfactory answers. Don't you CARE that your "holy book" gives extensive instructions for the sale and treatment (often harsh) of slaves, rather than simply commanding that humans shall never own other humans? Doesn't it bother you that this text contains mythological creatures like unicorns, dragons, satyrs and giants? Do you even notice these things? Don't you think it's fair for me to ask believers about these kinds of things, and expect a decent answer?

You don't HAVE to answer me, of course. It's a free country. It's common for believers to ignore such questions, and even disparage the person doing the asking. Stickyface was a rare and welcome exception.
buck

AOL

#48 Apr 24, 2013
troll troublemaker you're nothing but a liar and anyone who backtracks posts will see I didn't say the yaps & blahs.
go lie somewhere else maybe with the pigs lmao I'm done with you all here

“Mussy galore!!!”

Since: Mar 13

Location hidden

#49 May 1, 2013
I have been thinking about this- a lot. The answer to your (and Buck's) question "How do I reconcile my faith and my homosexuality?" is-I cannot! I was created by Him this way, and as much a part of His plan as lilacs, earthquakes, recessions, or anything else good or bad. It maay sound naive. However, my choice is a personal one. I can live with a man and worship God, and be at peace. I don't claim to know ANYthing about religion (or theology). All I can go by is what is in my heart! I don't claim to be without sin either; but I don't feel enjoying a homosexual lifestyle (and I do!) Is sending me to Hell. Do I sin? Yes. Am I saved? I hope so! I also know I am loved.
buck

AOL

#50 May 2, 2013
btw we are all "born" into sin, no exceptions. the thing is to have enough faith and trust in what God says is true and right. It's not always easy to follow everything we are given and God knows that. but where does it get us if we disobey God?
I personally do not think anyone can be truly at peace if in gay lifestyle.
there is no such thing as "once saved always saved" sounds like you believe in that by your words.
the Bible is filled with "if's" concerning salvation.
and yes you can reconcile faith to God and leave the gay life like the alcoholic leaves the wine & beer, the same as the thief who steals no more etc.
God has made the rules it's our part to obey them. yeah I know it's not easy to follow everything God has said.
we all get off track, the thing is getting back on it with faith.
buck

AOL

#51 May 2, 2013
stickyface wrote:
I have been thinking about this- a lot. The answer to your (and Buck's) question "How do I reconcile my faith and my homosexuality?" is-I cannot! I was created by Him this way, and as much a part of His plan as lilacs, earthquakes, recessions, or anything else good or bad. It maay sound naive. However, my choice is a personal one. I can live with a man and worship God, and be at peace. I don't claim to know ANYthing about religion (or theology). All I can go by is what is in my heart! I don't claim to be without sin either; but I don't feel enjoying a homosexual lifestyle (and I do!) Is sending me to Hell. Do I sin? Yes. Am I saved? I hope so! I also know I am loved.
here's something else I want you to think about
did you realize what you said at the last?
"Am I saved?, I hope so!" that sends a message of doubt. I know you must have troublesome times with the conflict of the lifestyle you're living verses the word of God that you know is true.
things don't happen overnight take each day as it comes. I hope you do feel God's peace, truly.

“Unconvinced”

Since: Nov 09

Seattle, WA

#52 May 3, 2013
buck wrote:
and yes you can reconcile faith to God and leave the gay life like the alcoholic leaves the wine & beer, the same as the thief who steals no more etc.
God has made the rules it's our part to obey them. yeah I know it's not easy to follow everything God has said.
we all get off track, the thing is getting back on it with faith.
Drinking in moderation is fine, but an alcoholic lets it consume their life, interfering with relationships and responsibilities. This is true for almost anything not kept in moderation. There's no comparison to simply pursuing the gender that makes you happiest.

A thief takes something from someone else against their will. I don't want to be stolen from, you don't want to be stolen from, so stealing is not conducive to a peaceful and cooperative society. There's no comparison to consenting adults who find willing companionship with each other.

If you take the time to analyze WHY we criminalize or frown on certain behaviors, it's very easy to make sense of why they are held in such a negative light.

Overindulging, or taking something that is not yours, can be very tempting. You make it sound like homosexuality is "tempting". But are YOU tempted by it? It is not a temptation which overpowers a persons heterosexuality. A gay person does not feel heterosexuality. They have not been "tempted" into being gay, it is simply what they feel. ALL they feel.

Being gay does not bring harm upon others, as in the case of theft. The lives of gay people are not disrupted or derailed by being gay, as in the case of alcoholism. Your comparisons are invalid and unmerited, and explain nothing.

Blind obedience to the commands of the Bible will not help you learn right from wrong, unless you learn to think about these actions, and understand them. If you feel no sense of attraction toward your own gender, then you aren't gay and you should pursue a relationship with someone of the opposite gender. But same-sex relationships are perfectly suitable for people who do feel same-sex attraction. This is where they will find happiness. They should not be discouraged, nor blocked, nor shamed and marginalized.

Understand WHY you stigmatize a "wrong" behavior. Don't simply follow orders blindly, villainizing good people who have done nothing wrong.
buck

AOL

#53 May 4, 2013
yes being gay does bring harm to others duh duh, are you just waking up edmondwa?
ever hear of AIDS? duh duh duh
gays are known by their characteristics not, ain't nobody has to label them.
they mock God outright by using a most beautiful thing he has made, yes the rainbow to signify they are gay.
some gays will stretch far and be photographed hanging on a cross in a loin cloth. I guess they follow their big idol Madonna who's led the way for it to be ok.
you don't know the meaning of temptation do ya? and if some things that have always been regarded as wrong/sin all of sudden become ok, questions should flood the heart and mind why the thing is ok not. Gays were not known outwardly until the 80's. No church or society would allow them to hold hands & kiss in public etc. and a very large percentage knew it was wrong but gave into their temptations etc. What if all of a sudden stealing was not a crime? the mind with common sense would question why has it become ok to steal not.
ok I am done with explaining to you, as you know quite well of wrong & right.

“Unconvinced”

Since: Nov 09

Seattle, WA

#54 May 5, 2013
buck wrote:
yes being gay does bring harm to others duh duh, are you just waking up edmondwa?
ever hear of AIDS? duh duh duh
Have you ever heard of straight people with AIDS? There are plenty. AIDS is caused by careless behavior, with sex and with needles. You don't get it just by being gay. I don't have it, my partner of 9 years doesn't have it. Anyone can easily protect themselves and avoid it.
buck wrote:
gays are known by their characteristics not, ain't nobody has to label them.
This doesn't make any sense. Being gay just means being attracted to ones own gender. "Ain't nobody" has to think of that as "evil", either.
buck wrote:
they mock God outright by using a most beautiful thing he has made, yes the rainbow to signify they are gay.
The rainbow indicates inclusion of everyone, of all walks of life. That's a most beautiful idea, I think.
buck wrote:
some gays will stretch far and be photographed hanging on a cross in a loin cloth. I guess they follow their big idol Madonna who's led the way for it to be ok.
Not everyone follows your figure hanging on a cross in a loin cloth. That's allowed. I see straight people do things which don't exactly put your chosen religion in a good light, either. And that's allowed, too. People are allowed to NOT follow your religion in this country, and we don't sow dissent about them.
buck wrote:
you don't know the meaning of temptation do ya?
Do YOU? Are you "tempted" to be gay? Why am I not "tempted" by women? What part of being gay seems like a temptation to you?
buck wrote:
and if some things that have always been regarded as wrong/sin all of sudden become ok, questions should flood the heart and mind why the thing is ok not.
It was once wrong for blacks to be free, or to vote along with women. It was once wrong to say the Earth went around the sun.

You should ask yourself if it is wrong to ask someone to lie about who they are, and whether it harms you for them to be themselves. How are you harmed by my partner and I? Which women would you choose for us to lie to?
buck wrote:
Gays were not known outwardly until the 80's.
About time.
buck wrote:
No church or society would allow them to hold hands & kiss in public etc.
Why should CHURCH have anything to do with what is "allowed" in public? How are you HARMED if I hold my partners hand, or kiss him in public? You should be happy that we've found love and companionship in such a difficult world, not slanderous us because we like something you don't.
buck wrote:
and a very large percentage knew it was wrong but gave into their temptations etc.
I'd still like to hear what you think is so tempting about being gay.
buck wrote:
What if all of a sudden stealing was not a crime? the mind with common sense would question why has it become ok to steal not.
Stealing takes property from someone without permission. What property is taken from you, by me being gay?
buck wrote:
ok I am done with explaining to you, as you know quite well of wrong & right.
Better than you. I know it's wrong to villainize someone just because they're different from me.
buck

AOL

#55 May 5, 2013
btw the topic is "I don't believe "God"
hates me anymore"
now how can you or any one who doesn't believe in God have something reputable to say on the subject?
makes sense don't it, yeah it does.
being different in skin color, height, rich or poor, in dress, against things such as these hostile actions are completely unwarranted.
you don't believe in God you should focus on the forums with topics you have some knowledge on not.

“Unconvinced”

Since: Nov 09

Seattle, WA

#56 May 5, 2013
buck wrote:
btw the topic is "I don't believe "God"
hates me anymore"
now how can you or any one who doesn't believe in God have something reputable to say on the subject?
makes sense don't it, yeah it does.
being different in skin color, height, rich or poor, in dress, against things such as these hostile actions are completely unwarranted.
you don't believe in God you should focus on the forums with topics you have some knowledge on not.
Hey I was just replying to what you had to say. If I was off topic, it's only because you were. If you have no rebuttal to my arguments, don't cop out and say I'm off-topic, or that I'm disreputable just because I don't share your religion. If you simply don't have a sensible reply, then say so.

A person's sexual orientation also does not warrant "hostile action". Why should you care? Why should this make you WANT to be hostile? Do you treat people this way if they are divorced? Many Christians are divorced, which is also prohibited in the Bible, yet I don't see any hostility toward them. Are you hostile to people who masturbate? That would be pretty much every human who ever lived.

Why are so many Christians so inconsistent with their faith? It would require "hostile action" against people who are too similar to you. The more different someone is, the easier it is to hate them, I suppose.

If you know so much more about gods than I do, then explain to me why they love to sow such hostility and division among their creations.
The Troll Stopper

Blacksburg, VA

#57 May 7, 2013
buck wrote:
troll troublemaker yap yap yap blah blah blah...
Guess you're not so good at that whole reading comprehension thing, huh? Like I said before (now pay close attention!): I'm not a "troll troublemaker," I'm a Troll STOPPER. There is a difference, don'tcha know?
The Troll Stopper

Blacksburg, VA

#58 May 7, 2013
buck wrote:
yap yap yap AIDS blah blah blah...
Well, since lesbians have the world's lowest infection rate for AIDS and all other STDs among all classes of people, I guess that makes them the Chosen Ones! LOLAY bigot boy!

“Mussy galore!!!”

Since: Mar 13

Location hidden

#59 May 8, 2013
Our homosexuality puts us at odds with conventional society; there is no way to doubt that. However, we must celebrate and enjoy our lifestyles since that is the way we were created. My belief affords me a kinship with the "straight" world, and allows me to be a healthy gay man! I know I'm over-simplifying here. It's just that I feel having faith in God lets me move past any prejudice. I'm not denying it exists- but I can be comforted knowing I'm loved by the same Creator Who made all of us. I am only speaking for myself now, and I have hundreds of questions just like everyone else! I am far from being a "holy roller", and also feel society's judgement on my lifestyle. Believing I was created as I am offers respite from what others perceive, as well as my own encounters with shame and guilt.
buck

AOL

#60 May 8, 2013
stickyface I can appreciate your honesty it's more than what others offer.
this trollstopper from Va somehow fakes posts about what I said.
he is copying and pasting posts from somewhere else.
btw God did not create you as a "gay" baby, and that you should agree on not.
no doubt God loves you and everyone else.
but does that make what he said void?
we believe that God loves us, does it stop there? isn't the gist to love God in return? and it says if we do love God we keep his commandments not. I mean how else does another know we love God,
by keeping God's commandments not.
buck

AOL

#61 May 21, 2014
God is willing that none should perish therefore it is quite clear that
he does not hate anyone. God hates sin and does not want us to
live in sin. Adults know right from wrong and should not have to
be told. And if we choose to live in sin we will reap what we sow.
You want to know what is sin, just read the Bible.

“Unconvinced”

Since: Nov 09

Seattle, WA

#62 May 21, 2014
buck wrote:
God is willing that none should perish therefore it is quite clear that
he does not hate anyone.
Yet he creates some people while having full fore-knowledge that they are destined to Hell. If I am going to Hell because of my atheism or my homosexuality, this is something that God knew before he even created the universe. Why create me, if I am only going to suffer forever? Why add such suffering to the universe? Better to leave such people un-created, so that their suffering will never happen. If I were to give life to someone with the knowledge that eternal suffering will be their fate, that would seem pretty hateful.
buck wrote:
God hates sin and does not want us to live in sin. Adults know right from wrong and should not have to be told. And if we choose to live in sin we will reap what we sow.
Some things that the Bible considers "sin" make no sense. Why should a person be burned alive forever, just because they are skeptical about stories with magic in them? I see a world FULL of different religions, some of them older than Christianity. This makes me doubt that ANY of them are actually true. It looks more like humans simply enjoy creating such stories. But why is my doubt considered a "sin"? Why is the appropriate response to set me on fire and burn me alive forever?

Why should homosexuality be considered a "sin"? I do not choose who I am attracted to, or who makes me happy as a companion, but if I am with a consenting adult that feels the same, then why is eternal fiery torment something that we deserve? If God wants everyone to be heterosexual, then why doesn't he simply MAKE everyone heterosexual, instead of blaming people for finding the happiness which suits them best?
buck wrote:
You want to know what is sin, just read the Bible.
You just said that adults know right from wrong without being told. If so, then what is the point of reading the Bible? I know that it is not "wrong" for a person to doubt magical stories, and I know that it is not "wrong" for me to pursue happiness and companionship with other like-minded adults. I know all this without being told, and without reading the Bible. I know it because I have thought deeply about these ideas, and have considered their implications with much introspection. That is all that is required to understand right from wrong.

Besides, how could I be sure that the Bible is actually true, and that it will truly tell me right from wrong? There are MANY "scriptures" in the world which claim divine origin. How can I be sure that one of these OTHER books isn't actually the right one? Can you offer any method for sorting true claims from false ones?

The Bible gives terrible instructions for the treatment of slaves, and women, and calls for the death penalty for the most trivial of offenses. This doesn't sound like a book that understands right and wrong. It sounds like the writings of primitive people who knew SOME right things, but who were also very brutal and bloodthirsty. If I cannot be SURE that the Bible is true, then I will not risk putting my morals into the hands of ancient slave traders.
Wondering

Tyngsboro, MA

#63 May 21, 2014
EdmondWA wrote:
<quoted text>
Yet he creates some people while having full fore-knowledge that they are destined to Hell. If I am going to Hell because of my atheism or my homosexuality, this is something that God knew before he even created the universe. Why create me, if I am only going to suffer forever?
He didn't create you, your real parents did. Your suffering is manufactured by you.
Change your outlook. Think of yourself as a human being instead of a gay human being.

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