Effort seeks to prohibit anti-gay discrimination

Nov 13, 2012 | Posted by: roboblogger | Full story: News Tribune

A Missouri group may soon start circulating petitions for a ballot measure aimed at making it illegal to discriminate against gays and lesbians in the state.

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#1
Nov 14, 2012
 
Keep up the pressure. But watch out for providing the rationale for cohesion among our opposition and swelling their numbers through side issues.

“Equality First”

Since: Jan 09

St. Louis, MO

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#2
Nov 14, 2012
 

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One thing to remember about Missouri. We have passed numerous petition initiatives in the last few years, but our Republican legislature always has drastically changed them, so as to have no teeth, or outright got rid of them altogether. The ONLY way is a state Constitutional Amendment, and I don't see that passing anytime soon. I don't want to be negative, and I hope this group succeeds, but I am only cautiously optimistic on this one
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#3
Nov 14, 2012
 

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Should a religious organization that agrees with the bible that homosexual behavior is a sin and an abomination before God be required to employ homosexuals?

What about their right to freedom of relgion?

If homosexuals would leave their sex in the privacy of their bedrooms like everyone else, there would be no issue.

“Equality First”

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#4
Nov 14, 2012
 

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guest wrote:
Should a religious organization that agrees with the bible that homosexual behavior is a sin and an abomination before God be required to employ homosexuals?
What about their right to freedom of relgion?
If homosexuals would leave their sex in the privacy of their bedrooms like everyone else, there would be no issue.
Should a religious organization that believes that a white man married to a black woman is as sin, be able to fire the man for that sole purpose?

“... from a ...”

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#5
Nov 14, 2012
 

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guest wrote:
Should a religious organization that agrees with the bible that homosexual behavior is a sin and an abomination before God be required to employ homosexuals?
What about their right to freedom of relgion?
If homosexuals would leave their sex in the privacy of their bedrooms like everyone else, there would be no issue.
What kind of "religious organization" are you suggesting?
guest

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Nov 14, 2012
 

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RalphB wrote:
Should a religious organization that believes that a white man married to a black woman is as sin, be able to fire the man for that sole purpose?
Interracial marriage is not a matter of moral turpitude.

It is noteworthy that you ran away from my question, choosing instead to attempt to obfuscate the issue.

Again, doesn't a religious organization have the religious freedom under the 1st Amendment to refuse employment to someone engaged in homosexual behavior if they agree with the bible that homosexual behavior is a sin and an abomination before God?
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#7
Nov 14, 2012
 

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snyper wrote:
What kind of "religious organization" are you suggesting?
Oh, take your pick. Every one of the world's major religions condemn homosexuality.

Is government no longer bound by the 1st Amendment? Can Congress enact legislation that would prohibit the free exercise of religion?

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#9
Nov 15, 2012
 

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guest wrote:
<quoted text>
Oh, take your pick. Every one of the world's major religions condemn homosexuality.
Is government no longer bound by the 1st Amendment? Can Congress enact legislation that would prohibit the free exercise of religion?
What "free exercise of religion" do you see as limited?

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Nov 15, 2012
 

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guest wrote:
<quoted text>
Interracial marriage is not a matter of moral turpitude.
It is noteworthy that you ran away from my question, choosing instead to attempt to obfuscate the issue.
Again, doesn't a religious organization have the religious freedom under the 1st Amendment to refuse employment to someone engaged in homosexual behavior if they agree with the bible that homosexual behavior is a sin and an abomination before God?
Define "religious organization".

“Equality First”

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Nov 15, 2012
 

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guest wrote:
<quoted text>
Interracial marriage is not a matter of moral turpitude.
It is noteworthy that you ran away from my question, choosing instead to attempt to obfuscate the issue.
Again, doesn't a religious organization have the religious freedom under the 1st Amendment to refuse employment to someone engaged in homosexual behavior if they agree with the bible that homosexual behavior is a sin and an abomination before God?
O.K., let's try another one. Some religions view alcohol as sinful, as well as gambling. If a man is employed by that religion, and begins having a drink before dinner, and then goes and buys a lottery ticket, should the religious organization for whom he works be able to fire him? Remember now, he is not drinking or gambling on their time, but on his own.

“Equality First”

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Nov 15, 2012
 

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guest wrote:
<quoted text>
Interracial marriage is not a matter of moral turpitude.
Incidentally, I would argue that there are still some groups out there that DO consider it moral turpitude, but I'll let that go for the moment.
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Nov 15, 2012
 

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snyper wrote:
What "free exercise of religion" do you see as limited?
Should Brand X Church be required to hire a homosexual living in open sin and rebellion toward God as its pastor?

I think you're being ridiculous.
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Nov 15, 2012
 

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snyper wrote:
Define "religious organization".
I'm sure you can google that for yourself.

I was broadly referring to any of the world's major religions (Christianity, Judaism, Islam, etc.) including any of its local parishes, synagogues, mosques, etc.

All of them denounce homosexual behavior, holding that it is sinful and and abomination before God.

Should they be forced deny their religious rights and condone such behavior? Certainly not!
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Nov 15, 2012
 

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RalphB wrote:
O.K., let's try another one. Some religions view alcohol as sinful, as well as gambling. If a man is employed by that religion, and begins having a drink before dinner, and then goes and buys a lottery ticket, should the religious organization for whom he works be able to fire him? Remember now, he is not drinking or gambling on their time, but on his own.
Of course. Again, the 1st Amendment expressly forbids Congress from enacting any laws that infringe upon religious groups' rights to the free exercise of their religion.

If their religion prohibits alcohol and gambling, then by all means they have the right, secured by the 1st Amendment, to terminate any employee who engages in those activities.

It would also violate their 1st Amendment rights if government forced them to hire such people.
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Nov 15, 2012
 

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RalphB wrote:
Incidentally, I would argue that there are still some groups out there that DO consider it moral turpitude, but I'll let that go for the moment.
I encourage you to study up on the issue. Rest assured that the vast majority of religious organizations teach the homosexual behavior is immoral.

“... from a ...”

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#17
Nov 15, 2012
 

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guest wrote:
<quoted text>
Should Brand X Church be required to hire a homosexual living in open sin and rebellion toward God as its pastor?
I think you're being ridiculous.
So, by "religious organization" you mean "church"?

I want to be clear on what you actually mean before considering any comment.

“Equality First”

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#18
Nov 15, 2012
 

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guest wrote:
<quoted text>
I encourage you to study up on the issue. Rest assured that the vast majority of religious organizations teach the homosexual behavior is immoral.
I would suggest YOU study up on the issue. You and others keep harping on the aspect of religions hiring and firing gay people, but you never seem to took at the issue of what is being proposed. You automatically assume, wrongly, that someone is infringing on your religious rights, when in fact, this petition has an "out" for bigoted, hateful religions. In an interview about the petition one of the leaders of the group pushing it had this to say:

"Smith said one important aspect of the proposed amendment is that it has a clause protecting the rights of religious institutions. Smith said this clause will, for example, protect a religious organization from hiring a someone who is gay if it violates the religious beliefs of that institution."

Ooops, I didn't really mean to confuse you with facts, but there they are, those darned old facts. Now take your straw-man down, and carry it home for some other useless argument. And from now on try looking up the facts of the matter before you assume the bogey-man is out to get you.

“Equality First”

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#19
Nov 15, 2012
 

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And in case you don't believe me, here is a link to the story, including the comments from Smith.

http://tmn.truman.edu/theindex/2012/11/15/mis...
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#20
Nov 16, 2012
 

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snyper wrote:
So, by "religious organization" you mean "church"?
I want to be clear on what you actually mean before considering any comment.
I have been clear. You just want to play word games.
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#21
Nov 16, 2012
 

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RalphB wrote:
I would suggest YOU study up on the issue.
I am quite familiar with the world's major religions and their respective public views regarding homosexuality. You're the one arguing against the fact that there are religious groups who hold that homosexuality is a sin and an abomination before God. You're either being intentionally obtuse or your ignorance regarding the matter is glaring.
You automatically assume, wrongly, that someone is infringing on your religious rights, when in fact, this petition has an "out" for bigoted, hateful religions.
You automatically assume that a relgious organization refusing to employ homosexuals is borne from bigotry and hatred, when it's simply a matter of adherence to traditional religious beliefs. That of course is the very essence of religious freedom, of which government has no power to prohibit under the 1st Amendment.

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