Maryland Gay Marriage Could Hinge on Black Churches

Mar 1, 2012 Full story: The Skanner 9,656

With Maryland poised to legalize gay marriage, some conservative opponents and religious leaders are counting on members of their congregations, especially in black churches, to upend the legislation at the polls this fall.

Full Story

“TAKIA AND TA TONKA”

Since: Aug 08

HAPPY TOGETHER!!!

#9542 Dec 31, 2012
nhjeff wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes, you're right. It's ALL about YOU! The gay kids in the class don't matter to you. The kids with gay parents don't matter to you. The kids who love their gay aunt or uncle don't matter to you. All you care about is that you get to tell your kids who's good and who's bad. And the schools better not provide an actual information that the children could use to make up their own minds.
Really, I am constantly amazed by how badly parents underestimate children's ability to comprehend and assess. When a parent says they need to protect their child's innocense, they usually mean that they--as parents--can't deal with it. But the fact is that it's very simple and the child can deal with it better than the parents.
Awesome post........I wish I had come across in the same manner:-)

Happy New Year to you and yours.....may it be bright and prosperous:-)

“TAKIA AND TA TONKA”

Since: Aug 08

HAPPY TOGETHER!!!

#9543 Dec 31, 2012
WaterBoarder wrote:
What I am against is the schools teaching my kids their views on sexuality and sexual morality. That is not education.
I don't believe ANY school is teaching about sexuality or sexual morality as you claim.........and looking at your link doesn't show that either!!!

“You wish you were here!!”

Since: May 09

The OC

#9544 Dec 31, 2012
Not Yet Equal wrote:
<quoted text>
The word "homosexual" did not exist. Yet clearly, there were people who we today would call "homosexual" as well as those we would call "bisexual" and "heterosexual". They did not have that language nor conceptualization at the time.
They also had pagan fertility ritual sex. Not a common practice today, but was common at various times and places during the time of Jesus and long before. Some of the words that have been mistranslated make it clear they were talking about pagan ritual sex, not committed relationships based on mutual love and respect: "I Cor 6:9, no way refers to homosexuality. The original Greek word often quoted as sexual immorality, Paul used was "porneia" which means "a harlot for hire".
And you are correct that most gay equal rights supporters recognize the only remaining obstacle to legal equality remains a few mistranslated and misinterpreted bible verses. And yes, it id frustrating knowing when you open your bible and see those mistranslations and misinterpretations you still use them to justify causing needless harm and to ignore the Golden Rule.
How is it that the vast majority of Christendom believes the Bible says exactly what it appears to say with regards to gay sex? My pastor holds a doctorate and can read the original languages of the Bible. Did he miss that one? Is he in on some kind of conspiracy to keep the gay man down? Does he simply hate you? Are they all in on this hate-based conspiracy?

And why is it that virtually the only people that come up with all this stuff are gays and their supporters?

Sorry...I don't buy it. Gay theology is creative interpretation and outright nonsense.

And I don't buy the whole "love is more important" argument. It wreaks of the either/or fallacy. EITHER you are ignoring the Bible and accept the whole "its okay to be gay" deal OR you hate gays and seek to harm them. Right?

I think for myself and my views are more complex and thought out.

“I Luv Carbon Dioxide”

Since: Dec 08

Location hidden

#9545 Dec 31, 2012
Wakanatabi wrote:
No point again I see.
There is no ban on same sex marriage ANYWHERE in the USA.

“You wish you were here!!”

Since: May 09

The OC

#9546 Dec 31, 2012
Wakanatabi wrote:
<quoted text>
Don't lie. It paints you the fool especially when everyone can read those documents.
All that program did was do advise kiddies there are other forms of sexuality out there.
Big wahoo.
If WaterBoarder Junior grows older and starts getting chubbies in his 11th grade chemistry class the fact he knew about gays at a much younger age through school isn't going to point his dick in any other direction than he wants so your fears are baseless.
In Internet slang, a troll is someone who posts inflammatory,[1] extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community, such as a forum, chat room, or blog, with the primary intent of provoking readers into an emotional response[2] or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion.

“You wish you were here!!”

Since: May 09

The OC

#9547 Dec 31, 2012
NorCal Native wrote:
<quoted text>
Awesome post........I wish I had come across in the same manner:-)
Happy New Year to you and yours.....may it be bright and prosperous:-)
You both assume much. Please don't stereotype my beliefs and respond to what I actually write.

And if you must continue fawning all over each other please get a room!

“You wish you were here!!”

Since: May 09

The OC

#9548 Dec 31, 2012
NorCal Native wrote:
<quoted text>
Actually, yea they do more than you know.....in fact every where we look.....Heterosexuality is being displayed as right, from the match.com and eharmony commercials, to the Viagra and Cialis advertisements, to how people perceive those who are different.......so, yes......our daily lives are inundated with how wonderful heterosexuality is.....and frankly, I don't care......but don't ya think that it's just as important to show the same thing with regards to Gays and Lesbians who are a part of society, working, paying taxes and so many other day to day activities that show them as regular everyday people? You make it sound as though being Gay or Lesbian is wrong, degrading or just perverted and if you had your way, that's probably how you'd like kids to be taught, right? See, what you're truly afraid of is the fact that Gays and Lesbians are just like you and any other straight person......and that's bad because then you have some unjustified fear that they will somehow become Gay or Lesbian, which is just a fallacy on your part. See, being Gay or Lesbian is as innate as being straight is........and the funny thing is......KIDS know that!!!
Sorry, but unless you keep your kids in a vacuum......they already know more about Gays and Lesbians than you want them to.....and they aren't being taught about the sexuality aspect of being Gay or Lesbian, but about the fact that Gays and Lesbians are a part of society and have been so since the beginning of time!!!
And again......my marriage doesn't affect you or your family......just like your marriage and family don't affect me!!!
Now, I've tried to explain things to you, but all you care about are your views and your way of life......well, then my suggestion to you is......move someplace where you are not surrounded by ANYONE that you don't specifically approve of.....then you can have ABSOLUTE control over yourself and your family.....Peace to you and yours......seems you're going to need it!!!
So because TV commercials tend to exclusively show man/woman relationships public schools get to teach homosexual acceptance to kindergartners?

And I am not trying to keep my kids from seeing gays or knowing they exist. I am not even trying to keep schools from suppressing or censoring such things. I have been clear in my posts that I want the opposite.

I have been clear and consistent on these points:

1) Public schools have developed and are implementing curriculum aimed at teaching a particular view of sexuality to our youngest of children.

2) A main goal of this teaching is for the homosexual community to enjoy greater public acceptance in future generations.

3) When presented the facts at first gays deny it exists. However - once this truth has been proven - virtually all gays and their supporters change their tune and agree with this teaching and its goals.

4) By walking you folks through this exercise I have proven your true intolerance and lack of respect for the rights of other families. What you are ultimately after is full public acceptance of your sexuality and you will attain it by any means necessary.

Sorry but this is not the role of our public schools and certainly is not EDUCATION. There is an entirely different name for this kind of thing.

“TAKIA AND TA TONKA”

Since: Aug 08

HAPPY TOGETHER!!!

#9549 Dec 31, 2012
WaterBoarder wrote:
My pastor holds a doctorate and can read the original languages of the Bible.
Let me ask you a question......how many bible scholars do you believe hold a Doctorate Degree in Theological Studies? How many do you think can read the original languages of the bible? Now, how many of them would and do disagree with your Pastor?

Hence just because one can do those things, doesn't mean they're interpretation is the correct one.....just that it is the one they opt to believe because it goes along with their belief in general about homosexuality.

Here's another one.......how many Commandments were given to the Jews regarding what they should do, eat, wear, sexual practices and other aspects of their lives? There were 613 Commandments given to them......how many do you think MIGHT have concerned the possibility of "GAY" sex? There was only one and it's questionable that it applies to just "GAY" men!!!

Here are the 613 Mitzvot Commandments:
http://www.jewfaq.org/613.htm

“You wish you were here!!”

Since: May 09

The OC

#9550 Dec 31, 2012
NorCal Native wrote:
<quoted text>
I don't believe ANY school is teaching about sexuality or sexual morality as you claim.........and looking at your link doesn't show that either!!!
You see what you want to see.

Why else would they be presenting "King and King" to kindergartners? Random entertainment? They are trying to get these little ones to see gay relationships as normal and amoral.

Just because you agree with their goal doesn't change their intentions.

Now please spare me the diatribe on how I want to shield my kids or teach then to hate you. I have already explained I do nothing of the sort.

I wish to teach my kids about sexuality and loving others from my perspective and that of my chosen religion.

And let me make this clear. I want to teach my kids to love and even protect gays because they are human beings, Jesus loves and died for them, we are no better, etc. That is my right and what Christianity REALLY teaches. The schools and your friends want to teach my kids to love gays because homosexuality is amoral.

The school is not trying to teach or manage the child's behavior (zero tolerance for bullying) but the personal morality for the behavior.

Its wrong. And its not education at all.

“TAKIA AND TA TONKA”

Since: Aug 08

HAPPY TOGETHER!!!

#9551 Dec 31, 2012
WaterBoarder wrote:
I have been clear and consistent on these points:
1) Public schools have developed and are implementing curriculum aimed at teaching a particular view of sexuality to our youngest of children.
2) A main goal of this teaching is for the homosexual community to enjoy greater public acceptance in future generations.
3) When presented the facts at first gays deny it exists. However - once this truth has been proven - virtually all gays and their supporters change their tune and agree with this teaching and its goals.
4) By walking you folks through this exercise I have proven your true intolerance and lack of respect for the rights of other families. What you are ultimately after is full public acceptance of your sexuality and you will attain it by any means necessary.
Again....IT WON'T be sexuality to Kindergartners.....and it won't be sexual morality period.....I don't care what you want to let your mind believe.......and if what you claim was going to happen.....don't you think someone would have sued the Department of Education already?

You have PROVEN nothing but what you want to have proven.......I mean Parker from Massachusetts tried to make a big issue over the book King and King......he lost and what you are upset about is the same thing......you are upset just because Gays and Lesbians will be discussed like any other culture group has been discussed.......frankly, I don't see an issue, but I don't care if Picasso was Gay or not, his art is what was amazing.......so, I see the issue of one's sexual orientation as irrelevant to the person's contributions......frankly, I'd like History to include more contributions from women than about their sexual orientation......but that's just because I believe it is important to little girls to know that they can be anything they want instead of just the typical jobs surrounded by nurturing!!!

“You wish you were here!!”

Since: May 09

The OC

#9552 Dec 31, 2012
NorCal Native wrote:
<quoted text>
Let me ask you a question......how many bible scholars do you believe hold a Doctorate Degree in Theological Studies? How many do you think can read the original languages of the bible? Now, how many of them would and do disagree with your Pastor?
Hence just because one can do those things, doesn't mean they're interpretation is the correct one.....just that it is the one they opt to believe because it goes along with their belief in general about homosexuality.
Here's another one.......how many Commandments were given to the Jews regarding what they should do, eat, wear, sexual practices and other aspects of their lives? There were 613 Commandments given to them......how many do you think MIGHT have concerned the possibility of "GAY" sex? There was only one and it's questionable that it applies to just "GAY" men!!!
Here are the 613 Mitzvot Commandments:
http://www.jewfaq.org/613.htm
Countless thousands. Literacy in the original languages of the Bible is not an obscure skill. I actually work for one of the largest teaching churches in the world (in a lay person's role...I am no pastor). I know first hand these people DO NOT hate gays and would be thrilled if the Bible said what gays wish it did. They are loving people who sacrifice greatly to love on and serve others.

It really does say what it appears to say. There is no sane argument against it.

Now there are those who argue that the Bible is not what some of us think it is. They say its not the infallible "Word of God". Or they say its a good book that is mostly true but doesn't fully apply as strictly as some would say it does. Of course, there are those who believe its just a bad history book!

They all have valid arguments. But the "it doesn't really say that" argument is absurd. Too many of us can read.

“TAKIA AND TA TONKA”

Since: Aug 08

HAPPY TOGETHER!!!

#9553 Dec 31, 2012
WaterBoarder wrote:
Its wrong. And its not education at all.
Well, then take your kids out of public schools and home school them under your religious beliefs.....there issue solved......Glad I could help!!!

You don't care what I truly believe......just that I'm a Lesbian and that this is MY PERSONAL agenda......so, it is your option to HOME SCHOOL.....this way you can ensure that your kids ONLY learn or get brainwashed as you want them to!!!

I know one thing.....before my grandchild entered Kindergarten, they understood that they could grow up and marry anyone they wanted to and who wanted to marry them........upon coming home from their first week in school......all of a sudden, they thought that they had to marry someone of the opposite-sex because that is what their teacher told them......so, we have taken a very unique position on this issue.......we let our grandchild know that whomever they grow-up to be.......or who they marry we will love them no matter what and we know that we don't have to worry about them learning whatever because if they have questions, they know we will answer them!!!

“TAKIA AND TA TONKA”

Since: Aug 08

HAPPY TOGETHER!!!

#9554 Dec 31, 2012
WaterBoarder wrote:
<quoted text>
Countless thousands. Literacy in the original languages of the Bible is not an obscure skill. I actually work for one of the largest teaching churches in the world (in a lay person's role...I am no pastor). I know first hand these people DO NOT hate gays and would be thrilled if the Bible said what gays wish it did. They are loving people who sacrifice greatly to love on and serve others.
It really does say what it appears to say. There is no sane argument against it.
Now there are those who argue that the Bible is not what some of us think it is. They say its not the infallible "Word of God". Or they say its a good book that is mostly true but doesn't fully apply as strictly as some would say it does. Of course, there are those who believe its just a bad history book!
They all have valid arguments. But the "it doesn't really say that" argument is absurd. Too many of us can read.
Again......that's my whole point.....IT DOESN'T SAY WHAT YOU BELIEVE IT DOES......and many Pastors, Ministers, Preachers and other Clergy tend to have various thoughts and opinions as to why that is......one is not right or wrong, just that they see those scriptures differently, but trying to get a person like you to see other angles on the scriptures is truly a waste of my time.

Sorry to try and engage your limited intelligence on the subject!!!

“Together for 24, legal for 5”

Since: Sep 07

Littleton, NH

#9555 Dec 31, 2012
WaterBoarder wrote:
<quoted text>
Well we are just going to have to agree to disagree there Jeff.
But can you explain why they need to "present the facts" each year about gay relationships to children as young as kindergarten with a targeted curriculum?
Yes. I have done this before. But to repeat: There are gay and lesbian youth in the school. Straight children in the school have gay and lesbian family members. You wish to avoid acknowledging their very humanity.

We all remember what it feels like to think that there is no one else in the world like you. This is something you can't feel yourself, but you could try to understand it. But you don't. Fine. We will work to make sure other gay and lesbian children don't feel the same sense of isolation and ostracism.
Why do they need to present these facts? Simply to "educate" about the world? Why so young? Social studies doesn't start for years.
Come on Jeff. You are a smart guy and I know you see the goal here. It is to help these little ones accept homosexuals in our society.
Denying something so obvious just makes you appear disingenuous.
I believe that well-informed people are far less likely to act out of destructive fear and prejudice. I have stated before that the only way you can instill your dislike of homosexuals in your children is to prevent them from hearing any other points of view. You do have many tools at your disposal to perpetuate your prejudice, but current surveys make it clear that prejudice is failing.

We don't need to promote homosexuality as a "good" thing. It is neither good nor bad, just like left- or right-handedness. We merely need to teach the facts.

Obviously, that scares your cowardly prejudice little heart. Too bad.

“You wish you were here!!”

Since: May 09

The OC

#9556 Dec 31, 2012
NorCal Native wrote:
<quoted text>
Again....IT WON'T be sexuality to Kindergartners.....and it won't be sexual morality period.....I don't care what you want to let your mind believe.......and if what you claim was going to happen.....don't you think someone would have sued the Department of Education already?
You have PROVEN nothing but what you want to have proven.......I mean Parker from Massachusetts tried to make a big issue over the book King and King......he lost and what you are upset about is the same thing......you are upset just because Gays and Lesbians will be discussed like any other culture group has been discussed.......frankly, I don't see an issue, but I don't care if Picasso was Gay or not, his art is what was amazing.......so, I see the issue of one's sexual orientation as irrelevant to the person's contributions......frankly, I'd like History to include more contributions from women than about their sexual orientation......but that's just because I believe it is important to little girls to know that they can be anything they want instead of just the typical jobs surrounded by nurturing!!!
Actually there have been lawsuits. The curriculum I link to is from San Francisco. That is a particularly gay friendly school district and that is where all this has been put together. Not much opposition there.

But when they tried to teach this across the bay in Alameda it sure spawned a lawsuit.

http://www.wnd.com/2009/08/106819/

Notice how the parents were not allowed to opt out?

Remember when Prop 8 was on the ballot? The Teachers union gave a cool million to defeat it. Then when commercials came out showing how gay marriage could affect public education the Superintendent of Public Instruction came out in a commercial for the anti-Prop 8 folks.

So...why are CA teachers and the Superintendent coming out in support of gay marriage? Hmmm....

What is happening is clear:

1) The education establishment in CA wants to teach pro-gay curriculum to the youngest of our children (often under the guise of "anti-bullying measures that we all support).

2) Parental notification and opting out is denied whenever possible violating CA law.

Come on NorCal...just because you agree with their agenda doesn't mean it isn't there. How much clearer can it be?

“You wish you were here!!”

Since: May 09

The OC

#9557 Dec 31, 2012
NorCal Native wrote:
<quoted text>
Well, then take your kids out of public schools and home school them under your religious beliefs.....there issue solved......Glad I could help!!!
You don't care what I truly believe......just that I'm a Lesbian and that this is MY PERSONAL agenda......so, it is your option to HOME SCHOOL.....this way you can ensure that your kids ONLY learn or get brainwashed as you want them to!!!
Remember when I posted this:
==========

1) Public schools have developed and are implementing curriculum aimed at teaching a particular view of sexuality to our youngest of children.

2) A main goal of this teaching is for the homosexual community to enjoy greater public acceptance in future generations.

3) When presented the facts at first gays deny it exists. However - once this truth has been proven - virtually all gays and their supporters change their tune and agree with this teaching and its goals.

4) By walking you folks through this exercise I have proven your true intolerance and lack of respect for the rights of other families. What you are ultimately after is full public acceptance of your sexuality and you will attain it by any means necessary.
==========

Congratulations! You just graduated to number four!

Why is it when kids are taught your ideas its just great but when I have the audacity to want to teach my own kids my views on sexual morality its brainwashing?

“You wish you were here!!”

Since: May 09

The OC

#9558 Dec 31, 2012
NorCal Native wrote:
<quoted text>
Again......that's my whole point.....IT DOESN'T SAY WHAT YOU BELIEVE IT DOES......and many Pastors, Ministers, Preachers and other Clergy tend to have various thoughts and opinions as to why that is......one is not right or wrong, just that they see those scriptures differently, but trying to get a person like you to see other angles on the scriptures is truly a waste of my time.
Sorry to try and engage your limited intelligence on the subject!!!
Sure it does. Did you catch the part I wrote about working for one of the largest teaching churches in the world?

And its not "many" pastors, ministers that believe what you say. Its a handful who are mostly active in gay rights issues.

There is no conspiracy against gays from the Christian community to suppress the truth of what the Bible says in the original languages. That is absurd nonsense.

“You wish you were here!!”

Since: May 09

The OC

#9559 Dec 31, 2012
nhjeff wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes. I have done this before. But to repeat: There are gay and lesbian youth in the school. Straight children in the school have gay and lesbian family members. You wish to avoid acknowledging their very humanity.
We all remember what it feels like to think that there is no one else in the world like you. This is something you can't feel yourself, but you could try to understand it. But you don't. Fine. We will work to make sure other gay and lesbian children don't feel the same sense of isolation and ostracism.
<quoted text>
I believe that well-informed people are far less likely to act out of destructive fear and prejudice. I have stated before that the only way you can instill your dislike of homosexuals in your children is to prevent them from hearing any other points of view. You do have many tools at your disposal to perpetuate your prejudice, but current surveys make it clear that prejudice is failing.
We don't need to promote homosexuality as a "good" thing. It is neither good nor bad, just like left- or right-handedness. We merely need to teach the facts.
Obviously, that scares your cowardly prejudice little heart. Too bad.
Again, more extreme either/or thinking. We either teach kindergartners homosexual acceptance or we are denying the "very humanity" of those kids who may develop same-sex attraction.

We don't need to teach these "facts" to kindergartners and the goal isn't simply to educate. Its to promote greater acceptance of the gay community in future generations.

And if parents like myself disagree...well you guys will just need to save my kids from my "ignorance".

“TAKIA AND TA TONKA”

Since: Aug 08

HAPPY TOGETHER!!!

#9560 Dec 31, 2012
WaterBoarder wrote:
This source shows exactly where I believe you are:
Sorry to try and engage your limited intelligence on the subject!!!

“TAKIA AND TA TONKA”

Since: Aug 08

HAPPY TOGETHER!!!

#9561 Dec 31, 2012
WaterBoarder wrote:
<quoted text>
Sure it does. Did you catch the part I wrote about working for one of the largest teaching churches in the world?
And its not "many" pastors, ministers that believe what you say. Its a handful who are mostly active in gay rights issues.
There is no conspiracy against gays from the Christian community to suppress the truth of what the Bible says in the original languages. That is absurd nonsense.
Sorry to try and engage your limited intelligence on the subject!!!

Tell me when this thread is updated:

Subscribe Now Add to my Tracker

Add your comments below

Characters left: 4000

Please note by submitting this form you acknowledge that you have read the Terms of Service and the comment you are posting is in compliance with such terms. Be polite. Inappropriate posts may be removed by the moderator. Send us your feedback.

Gay/Lesbian Discussions

Title Updated Last By Comments
Is Vladimir Putin Another Adolf Hitler? 24 min Pro Ukraine 2,764
End of the road for Freedom to Marry, NOM? 1 hr Cowobunga 7
Same-sex marriage is just the beginning 1 hr Anglo Seeker 28
Pat Robertson's Thanksgiving Warning: Stop Gay ... 1 hr Fa-Foxy 22
Government Studies Sexual Habits Of Obese Girls 1 hr Frank Stanton 1
Evangelicals with gay children challenging church 3 hr Fa-Foxy 27
Gay marriage (Mar '13) 3 hr Pattysboi 56,702
Next gay marriage fight: religious exemptions 4 hr Pietro Armando 3,642
Is Polygamy the Next Gay Marriage? 6 hr Frankie Rizzo 3,983
Gay brains similar to opposite-sex straight brains 19 hr Belle Sexton 31

Gay/Lesbian People Search

Addresses and phone numbers for FREE