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#81240 Mar 13, 2013
And now, Dandy is going to claim he is straight, actually can boink a female, and all the while post on the gay threads 24/7. Amazing! He, Frankie Dizzo, and Worlds Most Paranoid Bigot must be practicing polygamists. While the men folk post, the wives boink each other. Copy and paste and leave a few links, guys!

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Mzz Cleo

New York, NY

#81241 Mar 13, 2013
NE Jade wrote:
<quoted text> Your mother and sister. Impressive.
-good example

um what about yor little boy do you ever let him out of the cage

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Mzz Cleo

New York, NY

#81242 Mar 13, 2013
Noticed Jade always avoids answering questions concerning her little boy, out of sight out of mind .

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Dandy Deacon

New York, NY

#81243 Mar 13, 2013
Yeeeeee Haaaw drink up my brothers and sisters hallelujah.
happy hour has been extended .

DO WE HAVE TIME FOR ANOTHER SERMON?

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Dandy Deacon

New York, NY

#81244 Mar 13, 2013
Last August, we had a special Sunday in church called "Burning Questions," in which I responded, on an impromptu basis, to written questions from the congregation. s from the Lutherans, Presbyterians, and the United Church of
As your pastor, I know very well that homosexuality is a tender subject among us. It is an issue on which, as Christian people, we have diverse opinions and often very complex feelings. But I also know that this is a real question among us; it is not just a theoretical one. That's why you raised it. There are parents sitting here this morning who are wondering why their child is gay, does it mean they've done something wrong, and has anyone else ever struggled with this. There are gay and lesbian Christians who are active members of the church, but who live in the closet because they don't want to lose their jobs, their homes, or your friendship and respect.
There are teenagers here who have contemplated suicide because they suspect they might be gay. Each of us here has our own background, confusion, and experience with this issue. It is time we talked about it.
My goal, this morning is to open the conversation. And this is the thought that occurred to me on Tuesday: what is the best way to begin the conversation? It's not by presenting a logical line of argument. That's how you begin a debate, not a conversation! The best way to begin a conversation, in which you want others to feel free to speak their mind, and no perspective to be silenced, is simply speak from your heart, out of your own experiences.
So let me set aside my pile of books and papers, this morning, and share with you at least part of my own journey around this issue. In the months ahead, beginning with the "dialogue" time immediately following church today, I invite you to do the same.
I grew up in an atmosphere of traditional values. My family belonged to a Congregational church in which, week after week, I absorbed a basically mainline Christian theology that emphasized the love of God for all people. I was taught that the most important thing in life is to love God, and to love our neighbors as ourselves. In that environment, oddly enough, I don't remember one word ever being spoken about homosexuality. I don't even know when I first heard the term -- probably not before high school. When I did, it was not with any heavy overlay of negativity -- and in this, I have come to realize, my experience is very different from many people. I did not grow up being told homosexuality was shameful or sordid; I never had a bad experience such as being molested by a person of my own gender. Only as an adult do I realize what a tremendous impact such early experiences have in shaping people's attitudes toward homosexuality.
In fact, I had never met a homosexual person, as far as I knew, even into my twenties. This combination of influences meant that my attitude was pretty much "live-and-let-live." I didn't see how it hurt anyone, or how it threatened me, if two people of the same sex wanted to love each other and live together. What was the big deal?
It really wasn't until seminary, when I was thirty years old, that the issue acquired a human face for me. Her name was Sally. I was a commuting student at Vancouver School of Theology, with a job and a husband and three children in Seattle. I drove up to Vancouver on Mondays and came home on Wednesdays, so I needed a place to stay two nights a week. Sally had a studio apartment on campus that she was willing to share in return for prorated rent. Over the next three years, Sally and I became fast friends.

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Dandy Deacon

New York, NY

#81245 Mar 13, 2013
I had never met anyone like Sally. For one thing, she was much more disciplined in her spiritual life than I was. She got up at 5:00 every morning, which I thought of as an ungodly hour, and left the apartment for a walk or a bike ride, during which she would pray. She bought all her clothes at Goodwill and had only five changes of clothing and two pairs of shoes in the closet. She spent several days a week volunteering in a soup kitchen downtown. She kept a prayer journal. Basically, she put me to shame. But the most appealing thing about Sally was that she loved God. She laughed easily, loved life, loved people, was funny and fun. One night, as we were going to bed--each of us in a single bed lined against the wall, our heads in the corners and our feet toward each other --she asked if I wanted to pray. I had never prayed with another person before--at least, not like that, opening our inner lives before God, in each other's presence--and at first I was halting and shy. But over time we made a habit of praying together, and it was in the course of those years of praying, of being honest with ourselves as possible in the presence of God, that Sally came out to herself as gay.
It was no problem for me that Sally was discovering this--and I have to add here, that like most people, Sally discovered her sexual orientation; it wasn't something she decided. Isn't that true for you, that your sexual orientation is something that just seems "given"? It wasn't as if Sally woke up one morning and thought, "All things being equal, I think I'd like to be a member of a despised minority." It was more a process of discovering and owning the truth about her make-up as a human being.
But I soon learned what a traumatic discovery that would be. Sally came out first to herself before God, then to her family, then to the seminary, then to the church. I accompanied her in that process. When the Presbyterian Church kicked her out of the ordination process, I was stricken; how could they say that Sally was not qualified to be a pastor? She was the best student in her class, and a better Christian than I ever expect to be. I knew that she had been gifted and called to the ministry. Then Sally was fired from her job as the Youth Director at the church, because someone sent the pastor a letter saying that she was gay. All I could think at the time was; this is absurd, this is evil. Sally is great with those kids; why would people assume she is not safe to work with them? Why did they think a heterosexual man or woman would be safer?
Things came to a head for me, one morning; when I was standing in the kitchen, pouring a glass of orange juice, and listening to Sally cry her eyes out on the bed. She often did, in those days. Finally I went over to her, sat on the edge of the bed, and began to stroke her hair. I was filled with helpless rage at the world, and fierce tenderness for my friend. I heard myself saying, "Sally, I don't know what being gay is. But if it's part of who you are, and if God made you this way, I say I'm glad you are who you are, and I love who you are, and I wouldn't want you to be any different."

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Dandy Deacon

New York, NY

#81246 Mar 13, 2013
As soon as those words were out of my mouth, I realized something. I had taken a stand. I knew where I stood on this issue. Sally did not deserve to be despised and rejected; it was the church that was wrong. After seminary I was appointed to serve Wallingford United Methodist Church in Seattle, which had decided some years earlier to become a reconciling congregation -- that is, a congregation that publicly states it is open and affirming toward all people, regardless of sexual orientation. From that point on, my learning curve was steep! One of my first pastoral calls was to a young man who had just slit his wrists with a razor blade. He explained that he was a Christian and couldn't deny it, that he was also gay and couldn't deny that either, even though he had tried. He had been told he couldn't be both. His father had called him "human garbage” and that “He was not fit to live”. All I could do, in response, was to get down on my knees and ask for forgiveness for the church, for communicating to this young man that he was beyond the reach of God's love.

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Dandy Deacon

New York, NY

#81247 Mar 13, 2013
In the five years that followed, I had many such experiences. I had young men with AIDS look up at me with hollow eyes and ask, "Do you think I am an abomination?" I sat with young men calling for their parents as they died, parents who never came. These experiences had a profound impact on me. I kept going back in my mind, again, and again, to my earliest Christian training; the message that God loves everyone, and that Jesus said to love your neighbor as yourself. He didn't say, "love your neighbor, unless he or she happens to be homosexual." He never said one word about homosexuality at all.

Jesus spent his whole life going to the poor, the marginalized, the persons who were called unclean by their society, and demonstrating that God's love included them. He treated them with compassion. His own harshest words were for the Pharisees who believed that they were righteous in God's eyes, that others were not, and that God's judgments and opinions were identical to their own.

Which brings me to the question of what the Bible has to say about homosexuality. There is not time, this morning, to take up that question in depth -- we will have plenty of time for that later, in ongoing Bible studies and discussion. But let me say a few things here. The world "homosexual" does not appear anywhere in the Bible -- that words was not invented in any language, until the 1890s, when for the first time the awareness developed that there are people with a constitutional orientation toward their own sex.

In the whole Bible, there are only seven brief passages that deal with homosexual behavior. The first is the story of Sodom and Gomorra, which I preached on last fall, which is actually irrelevant to the issue. The attempted gang rape in Sodom has nothing to say about whether or not genuine love expressed between consenting adults of the same gender is legitimate.

Neither does the passage in Deuteronomy 23, which refers to Canaanite fertility rites that have infiltrated Jewish worship. Passages in I Corinthians and I Timothy refer to male prostitution. Two often-quoted passages prohibiting male homosexual behavior are found in the book of Leviticus. Leviticus also stipulates that any man who touches a woman during her menstrual period is to be stoned to death, that adulterers are to be executed, that interracial marriage is sinful, that two types of cloth are not to be worn together, and certain foods must never be eaten.

I know of no Christians, no matter how fundamentalist, who believe that Christians are bound to obey all of the Levitical laws. Instead we are driven to ask deeper questions about how to rightly interpret Scripture, how to separate the Word of God from cultural norms and prejudices -- that is, how to separate the Message from the envelope in which it comes.

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Dandy Deacon

New York, NY

#81248 Mar 13, 2013
The final Biblical text that deals with homosexual behavior is found in Paul's letter to the Romans, in which he unequivocally condemns homosexual behavior. The background for his understanding was the common Roman practice of older males 'keeping' young boys for sexual exploitation, which he was right to condemn.

But even if this were not the case, even if Paul knew about and condemned all forms of homosexual behavior, even the most loving, what then? Paul also told women not to teach, not to cut their hair, not to speak in church. Do we follow his teaching? He told slaves to obey their masters not once, but five times -- are we prepared to say today, as Southern slave owners argued 150 years ago, that slavery is God's will?

The fact is, I am not a disciple of Paul. I am an admirer of Paul, but a disciple of Jesus Christ. Paul himself says that we should not follow him, but Christ alone. So I come back, again to the life and teaching of Jesus as the center of my faith. In that light all other biblical teaching must be critiqued. There are seven passages about homosexual behavior in the Bible, all of which are debatable as to their meaning for us today. There are thousands of references in the Bible that call us, as Jesus commands, to love our neighbor, to work for peace and reconciliation among all people, and to leave judgment to God.

When I was pastor at Wallingford, I put biblical and intellectual foundations under my "heart" experience of knowing Sally. In those years I also came to appreciate a community in which both gay and straight Christians could worship together, serve on the Trustees, sing in the choir -- simply be human together, trying to grow in the capacity to love God and neighbor without fear.

As a result, when you ask me, "Is homosexuality a sin?" My answer today is: "No." I may be wrong, and I ask God's forgiveness if I am. But I don't believe that sexual orientation has anything to do with morality, any more than being blond or tall or left-handed does. Homosexuals as well as heterosexuals can be involved in sexual sin, including promiscuity, infidelity, and abuse. And homosexuals as well as heterosexuals can love one another with faithfulness, tenderness, and integrity. The same standards of moral behavior should apply to Christians, straight and gay. That is what my life experience as a pastor has led me to believe.

When a homosexual couple comes to meet with me in my office, then, and asks, "Will we be accepted in this church?" I can answer, "I will accept you." But I can only speak for myself. What shall I say on behalf of our whole congregation?

Shall I say, "Yes, you will be accepted here, as long as you aren't open about who you are and who you love?" Shall I say, "Yes, you will be accepted here, but you may not serve in any leadership positions." Shall I say, "Yes, you will be accepted here, but whatever you do, don't hold hands in church. Only heterosexual couples are allowed to do that." Shall I just say, "No." Or, perhaps, simply, "Yes."

The only way we will arrive at a consensus on how this question should be answered is by taking time, over the coming year, to examine ourselves, study the Bible, think, read, pray, listen, and share our diverse life experiences with each other, asking together what God is calling this congregation to do and be.

Let the conversation begin.

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Dandy Deacon

New York, NY

#81249 Mar 13, 2013
Amen.

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Straight Sh00ter

Lawrence, KS

#81250 Mar 13, 2013
Preach Deacon!

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Straight Sh00ter

Lawrence, KS

#81251 Mar 13, 2013
NE Jade wrote:
And now, Dandy is going to claim he is straight, actually can boink a female, and all the while post on the gay threads 24/7. Amazing! He, Frankie Dizzo, and Worlds Most Paranoid Bigot must be practicing polygamists. While the men folk post, the wives boink each other. Copy and paste and leave a few links, guys!
And you, our favorite fruity troll, make Richard Simmons look like John Wayne. I'll bet Christopher Lowell came to you to learn how to act gay.

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Straight Sh00ter

Lawrence, KS

#81252 Mar 13, 2013
Dandy Deacon wrote:
Amen.
Rock of Ages, cleft for me, let me hide myself in thee; let the water and the blood, from thy wounded side which flowed, be of sin the double cure; save from wrath ...

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Straight Sh00ter

Lawrence, KS

#81253 Mar 13, 2013
I'll bet if I posted something on here at 3:00 A.M. on a weeknight that our #1 troll, Old Snuffbutt Bill, would be here in 15 minutes flat to rate it down.

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Mango

New York, NY

#81254 Mar 13, 2013
Straight Sh00ter wrote:
I'll bet if I posted something on here at 3:00 A.M. on a weeknight that our #1 troll, Old Snuffbutt Bill, would be here in 15 minutes flat to rate it down.
yup never fails

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Tanaka San

Fukuoka, Japan

#81255 Mar 13, 2013
Brown Lipstick wrote:
<quoted text>
Frankie went hunting for the moron claiming that a regular topix user took their own life as a result of bullying. To make such a preposterous claim is inhumanlely low. Atypical for the narcissist, hateful, homosexual. Liars drawing attention to themselves, staged hate crimes, you name it, it never ends.
Who did they claim took their life?

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Tanaka San

Fukuoka, Japan

#81256 Mar 13, 2013
Scroooge wrote:
<quoted text> No, he is the most beautiful, kind, intelligent person I have ever met.
And you are totally deceived by that person.

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Tanaka San

Fukuoka, Japan

#81258 Mar 13, 2013
Dandy Deacon wrote:
Is homosexuality genetic or an evil force that plays mind games with people? I am well aware that this subject is charged and controversial -- and it has become so even in Christian circles. I have not sought support for my thoughts from the Word of God. Rather, the Word of God has given me the thoughts I will present here today. I will bring up the subject of homosexuality, but also the relationship to Christian homosexuals.
Is it a sign of the times and can you be delivered from it? From the beginning God created humans as man and woman. We begin in Genesis 1:27-28:
"So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth."
Here, God's Word clearly states that you were created to be Father and Mother - as man and woman - designed for parenthood. The Lord states that very clearly here.
Scripture considers any kind of sexual relationship outside of the bonds of marriage as loose living. The Scripture characterizes it as fornication. The marriage institution is also clearly defined in Genesis 2:24, where it says:
"Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh."
Only man and wife are referred to here. It is not stated any other way; you can never imply or interpret it to mean that you can have whatever [sexual] partner you wish to have.
That instinct, which God has embedded in humanity to experience the deepest form of relationship, and in order to protect marriage in true faithfulness, has become the Devil's strongest weapon against God and against marriage. So he is using it against God. That which God has created so that man shall experience togetherness and faithfulness and happiness and everything it brings -- the Devil uses this against God and in God's face, in order to twist and distort.
Of course, in the animal kingdom there are males and females, and in the botanical world there are also male and female plants; in neither the animal nor in plant life do [sexual] abnormalities occur. Rather, every species stays with its own species. That is the way it is -- until humans, in recent years, have stomped into this area with test tube fertilization and through cloning. Up until that point it has been as God has said that we should live.
Legalizing [domestic] partnerships between men and men, between woman and woman, it will simply create disasters -- beyond comparison! We are already seeing the results of this. We see it through the spread of AIDS. Certainly, not all AIDS-infected individuals are homosexuals, but it came into existence because of this in the past. For that matter, innocent people can become infected with this terrible disease, without having had anything to do with what lies behind it, as far as homosexuality is concerned. Nevertheless it will create a big disaster,
Excellent post, thanks for sharing.

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Gojirra

Fukuoka, Japan

#81259 Mar 13, 2013
Mzz Cleo wrote:
The Only Sin
Romans 1:18-32
http://gbcdecatur.org/sermons/OnlySin.html
The only sin today is to call sin "sin." If you do, you are labeled as intolerant. A man may be sick but he’s not sinful, he may be weak but he’s not wicked, he may be ill but he’s not evil, and even if he were to tell people that what they’re doing is wrong, they would say that they have some excuse. It would be environment, it would be genetics, it would be, ignorance, but nobody wants to be blamed.
Well, we’re going to learn something today about the wrath of God, the judgment of God.
Verse 18: "For the wrath of God is revealed." The wrath of God. Now we hear about the love of God and God is love--infinite, boundless, measureless love, God is love. But this God of love is also a God of wrath and when you love righteousness, you hate sin. The doctor who loves health hates microbes and germs and, when you love children, you hate child abuse. So, you see you cannot have a God of love without also having a God of wrath. And if you just take the love of God, you only have half of the story. He’s not a half baked God.
Now God is love, but when you take half of the truth and try to make half of the truth all of the truth, then that half of the truth becomes an untruth because you’ve distorted it and it’s not balanced.
So verse 18 says, "The wrath of God," God’s burning anger against sin," and the end of v. 20 says, "so that they are without excuse." There’s one thing that God will not accept for sin and that is an alibi or an excuse--he will accept a confession and he will forgive, but there is no excuse, man is inexcusable in his sin.
3 steps to sin in our text:
Step number one, man’s willful self-determination.
v. 21 They want to get rid of the thought of God.
Step number two, man’s wicked self-deception.
v. 18 ’hold the truth in unrighteousness’
vv. 22-25
He blinds himself, and thus he deceives himself.
Step number three, man’s woeful self-destruction.
Self-determination leads to self-deception leads to self-destruction. And the rest of this chapter tells about that destruction. What is that destruction? Well, it comes in several stages.
First of all, people who turn from God almost always become sexually perverted.
Verses 26 through 27: "For this cause..." Well, let’s go back to verse 25: "They changed the truth of God unto a lie and worshipped and served the creature more than the creator who is blessed forever and for this cause God gave them up to vile affections." Now what is he talking about when he says vile affection?
v. 26-28 "For even their women exchanged their natural use into that which against nature and likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another, men with men, working that which is unseemly and receiving in themselves that recompenses of their error which was mete," or fitting, "and even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind."
Now what God is talking about here is the sin of sodomy and the sin of moral perversion. Notice how God calls this sin. Actually he begins up in verse 24. He calls it uncleanness, he calls it lust, he calls it dishonor in verse 24. In verse 26 he calls it vile affections. In verse 26 he said it is against nature. In verse 27 he says it is unseemly. Over in the Old Testament
Excellent post, thanks for sharing.

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Gojirra

Fukuoka, Japan

#81260 Mar 13, 2013
How many trolls are on this thread?

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