Tens of thousands turn out for Istanb...

Tens of thousands turn out for Istanbul...

There are 24 comments on the Suria story from Jun 29, 2014, titled Tens of thousands turn out for Istanbul.... In it, Suria reports that:

Tens of thousands of people took to the streets of Istanbul on Sunday for the city's Gay Pride parade, an event that has taken on added political significance a year on from massive anti-government protests.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Suria.

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TurGayoPhobia

Edmonton, Canada

#1 Jun 29, 2014
TurGay is back!
TurGayoPhobia

Edmonton, Canada

#2 Jun 29, 2014
Tens of thousands of people took to the streets of Istanbul on Sunday for the city's Gay Pride parade, an event that has taken on added political significance a year on from massive anti-government protests.
Evilgelicalling

Philadelphia, PA

#3 Jun 29, 2014
You can get tens of thousands for a pride parade in Tel Aviv relatively safely, but only thousands for a semi safe one in Jerusalem.

Still, I wouldn't be optimistic regarding lgbt rights in Turkey over the short term...except maybe as compared to Iran or Saudi Arabia.
turkophagocytosi s

Edmonton, Canada

#4 Jun 29, 2014
Evilgelicalling wrote:
You can get tens of thousands for a pride parade in Tel Aviv relatively safely, but only thousands for a semi safe one in Jerusalem.
Still, I wouldn't be optimistic regarding lgbt rights in Turkey over the short term...except maybe as compared to Iran or Saudi Arabia.
thanks for that comment.great job.well done.
Evilgelicalling

Philadelphia, PA

#5 Jun 29, 2014
turkophagocytosis wrote:
<quoted text>
thanks for that comment.great job.well done.
I've always heard that closet cases are easy to satisfy.
turkophagocytosi s

Edmonton, Canada

#6 Jun 30, 2014
Evilgelicalling wrote:
<quoted text>
I've always heard that closet cases are easy to satisfy.
+

oh no sir... you misunderstand, I'm afraid...now this is a closet case:
http://www.atajew.com/2000/06/gay.html

Jewish Dictator Mustafa Kemal Was GAY

Source: Grey Wolf, Mustafa Kemal, An Intimate Study of a Dictator
Author: H.C. Armstrong, 1933

pages 253-254:
(After divorcing Latife)

.... Then he went back to the long nights in smoke-filled rooms with his drinking friends - the "desperadoes" as they were nicknamed-his painted women and the life to which he belonged.

After that he became shameless. He drank deeper than ever. He started a number of open affairs with women, and with men. Male youth attracted him. He made advances to the wives and daughters of his supporters. Even important men sent their women-folk away from Angora out of his way.

----------

and I've heard you serfs are quite predictable.
Rev Donald Wildmoan

Philadelphia, PA

#7 Jun 30, 2014
turkophagocytosis wrote:
<quoted text>+
oh no sir... you misunderstand, I'm afraid....
No, I'm afraid it is you who is suffering from the major homosexual fixation. Along with your other bigotries...expressed in a truly mentally ill fashion.

Carry on.
Kuvayi__Milliye

Loveland, CO

#8 Jun 30, 2014
F-ilthy Armenian propaganda p-igs are all b-utt hurt s- ub h-umans.

--- Armenians succeded after a general assault they launched aggressively from Bardiz front on September 24th, 1920. Armenians were suppressed and kicked out from the regions they occupied. Our army took action in the morning of September 28th.

-Mustafa Kemal Ataturk, Nutuk, Page 331, 333-

Does it still hurt Armenian liar p-igs?
terrorfilthturk

Edmonton, Canada

#9 Jun 30, 2014
Rev Donald Wildmoan wrote:
<quoted text>
No, I'm afraid it is you who is suffering from the major homosexual fixation. Along with your other bigotries...expressed in a truly mentally ill fashion.
Carry on.
lol, did it hurt your feelings, confused little toorkey?

your response suggests that it did...so here is more:

http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php...

Many Allied soldiers believed claims that they would be raped by Turkish soldiers if captured, meaning that this issue is relevant.

Secondly I would say that, despite what Lawrence may have written, I have found no evidence whatsoever to support his statement that “The Ottoman Turks were infamous for inflicting it throughout the Great War on captured enemy troops, beating and gang raping enemy officers often as a matter of due course”.

Having read hundreds of letters by Australian POWs in Turkey (and I do mean hundreds) as well as diaries, memoirs and unpublished documents, along with official accounts and published memoirs, I have found no evidence of any form of systematic sexual assult, either at the time of capture or while in prison camps.

However, I do have evidence that definitely shows that some (and I stress some) Allied prisoners were abused while in captivity. A senior Turkish officer at the camp located at Afyonkarahissar was repeatedly referred to in regard to these practices.

At the same time, I also have less clearly defined allegations of consenting homosexual practices between British officers in the camp, as well as the use of opium by Allied officers, including Australians (as an aside, Afyion means opium in Turkish and the region is one of the largest producers of raw opium for the legal medicinal market).

As I said, I have written evidence from POWs of homosexual abuse while in captivity. It was not in the interests of these soldiers to fabricate these accounts but a number did write that they had been abused. I should also say before anyone has a go at me that many years ago I also had the privilege to interview the last surviving Australian who had been a POW in Ottoman Turkey and he also confirmed that there had been instances of abuse, though he had not experienced it but had known and seen men who had.

As another note, refuting what Lawrence wrote, I have found no evidence whatsoever that any Australian officer was abused, indeed captured officers were almost without exception treated well and had a far better time of it as prisoners than enlisted men.

Before the complaints start, I want to say that what I have written is provable, and is not intended to be an insult to Turkey, Turks, the Turkish armed forces or Turkish soldiers. What it is is an objective look at an issue. Homosexuality exists in all societies, including modern Turkey where there are a number of registered non-governmental organisations representing the active gay and lesbian community in this country and where homosexuality is legal.

The fact that there were isolated incidents of homosexual abuses committed on Allied POWs should not be cause for insults to be hurled around or for insult to be taken. As I said, these were isolated incidents, not a systematic activity and surely not a policy that was applied by authorities. The fact that the officer I referred to was, according to Allied accounts, court marshalled after the war by the Ottoman military for his treatment of prisoners, both supports the claims of abuse and the fact that Turkish authorities did not condone it. We are discussing the actions of a few men out of an force of hundreds of thousands.

I would be sorry to think that there may be some members of this forum who take offence at what I have written. However, I thought it worth while contributing the above information in the hope it would both expand the knowledge of those taking part in this discussion and, just maybe, taking a little heat out of the debate.
terrorgayfilthoc rat

Edmonton, Canada

#10 Jun 30, 2014
The subject of homosexual acts within POW camps occasionally comes up in books on POWs. Often the POW will report that after liberation he was sometimes asked whether men detained in a POW camp engage in homosexual acts because they are denied outlets to women. The POWs respond that their thoughts were focused on food because they were hungry and not on sex [Maslow's heirarchy of needs]. Out of the numerous POW books and articles that I have read over the years, I have encountered only one account of homosexual activity between POWs. In the case in question, the British MOC (Man of Confidence) of the Stalag reportedly asked the German commandant to transfer one of the two men in order to stop the activity that was occuring behind the bathhouse.

Because not all cultures will engage in homosexual acts in the absence of women in appreciable levels, I believe the cause in the Turkish situation is, as Robert Plant reports, the interaction of cultural and situational factors at that time.
terrorgayfilthoc rat

Edmonton, Canada

#11 Jun 30, 2014
http://www.qrd.org/qrd/www/world/europe/turke...
ISLAM AND HOMOSEXUALITY

Before the emergence of Islam in the Arabian Peninsula, all kinds of sexuality was being experienced. Although we don't have many documents related to the age, it is understood from the references in the Kur'an that sexuality was not a taboo. Actually Islam didn't mention any strict sexual rules either. If we just take Kur'an as the reference, it may even be called a sex positive religion.The only reference to homosexuality is in the sections about Sodom and Gomorrah. But even in those sections homosexuality is not very clearly condemned. People are punished because of having done everything excessively. They don't only sleep with men, they sleep with women too, they drink too much, they got involved in pleasure too much. "Much" is the keyword here.

And the punishment for almost all crimes are mentioned in the Kur'an but there's no specific punishment for homosexuality. But these sections in Kur'an have always been the defending point of homophobic Islamic people.What brings condemnation to homosexuals is not the Kur'an but the Islamic societies. Cultures also shape the religion as well as the society itself.

During the first years of Islam, homosexuality was never mentioned as a crime. There are even rumors that Ali, one of the members of Mohammed's family had an affair with Mohammed. And in the famous 1001 Arabian Nights, there are some stories which are openly about homosexual relationships. But this did not mean that there was a conscious homosexual community. If those people knew the word "homosexual" they wouldn't call themselves so. It was just sleeping with men as well as with women.

In Islamic cultures homosexual relationships were not very open. But they were not in complete secrecy either. Everything was all right as long as it was done behind closed gates and was not talked about. But with modernization, this changed in the Islamic societies. AS it is easy to comment Kur'an in the negative way, homosexuality started to be accepted as a crime and it is punished.

Homosexuality is a legal crime and forbidden in most of Islamic countries like Saudi Arabia, Iran, etc.Whatever is forbidden is more attractive and homosexuality is not a habit that can be banned. So in all of these countries people are engaged in homosexual activity. As there are punishments for the act, everything is done in secret. Turkey is one of these countries where there is no problem when everything is done secretly.
terrorgayfilthoc rat

Edmonton, Canada

#12 Jun 30, 2014
TURKISH HOMOSEXUAL CRIMES AGAINST POW'S of WW2

As newcomer to this forum, and one who lives in Turkey, I realize buying into this topic could make me unpopular with some members. However, through extensive research on Australian and Allied prisoners of war in Turkey during the First World War, I feel I have something to contribute.

Many Allied soldiers believed claims that they would be raped by Turkish soldiers if captured, meaning that this issue is relevant.

Secondly I would say that, despite what Lawrence may have written, I have found no evidence whatsoever to support his statement that “The Ottoman Turks were infamous for inflicting it throughout the Great War on captured enemy troops, beating and gang raping enemy officers often as a matter of due course”.

Having read hundreds of letters by Australian POWs in Turkey (and I do mean hundreds) as well as diaries, memoirs and unpublished documents, along with official accounts and published memoirs, I have found no evidence of any form of systematic sexual assult, either at the time of capture or while in prison camps.

However, I do have evidence that definitely shows that some (and I stress some) Allied prisoners were abused while in captivity. A senior Turkish officer at the camp located at Afyonkarahissar was repeatedly referred to in regard to these practices.

At the same time, I also have less clearly defined allegations of consenting homosexual practices between British officers in the camp, as well as the use of opium by Allied officers, including Australians (as an aside, Afyion means opium in Turkish and the region is one of the largest producers of raw opium for the legal medicinal market).

As I said, I have written evidence from POWs of homosexual abuse while in captivity. It was not in the interests of these soldiers to fabricate these accounts but a number did write that they had been abused. I should also say before anyone has a go at me that many years ago I also had the privilege to interview the last surviving Australian who had been a POW in Ottoman Turkey and he also confirmed that there had been instances of abuse, though he had not experienced it but had known and seen men who had.

As another note, refuting what Lawrence wrote, I have found no evidence whatsoever that any Australian officer was abused, indeed captured officers were almost without exception treated well and had a far better time of it as prisoners than enlisted men.

Before the complaints start, I want to say that what I have written is provable, and is not intended to be an insult to Turkey, Turks, the Turkish armed forces or Turkish soldiers. What it is is an objective look at an issue. Homosexuality exists in all societies, including modern Turkey where there are a number of registered non-governmental organisations representing the active gay and lesbian community in this country and where homosexuality is legal.

The fact that there were isolated incidents of homosexual abuses committed on Allied POWs should not be cause for insults to be hurled around or for insult to be taken. As I said, these were isolated incidents, not a systematic activity and surely not a policy that was applied by authorities. The fact that the officer I referred to was, according to Allied accounts, court marshalled after the war by the Ottoman military for his treatment of prisoners, both supports the claims of abuse and the fact that Turkish authorities did not condone it. We are discussing the actions of a few men out of an force of hundreds of thousands.

I would be sorry to think that there may be some members of this forum who take offence at what I have written. However, I thought it worth while contributing the above information in the hope it would both expand the knowledge of those taking part in this discussion and, just maybe, taking a little heat out of the debate.

Cheers
Bill Sellars

Member
Turkey

Posts: 4
Joined: 02 Feb 2008, 09:28
Eceabat, Turkey
terrorgayfilthoc rat

Edmonton, Canada

#13 Jun 30, 2014
terrorgayfilthoc rat

Edmonton, Canada

#14 Jun 30, 2014
OTTOMAN CULTURE

Ottomans ruled between 1299 and 1923 till the foundation of Turkish Republic. They had been Moslems long before and they didn't have much from their pre-Islamic period. Things were organized according to Islamic system, from state system to social services. So the rules about sex were from Islam too. Men could marry four women and even the way he should treat them were mentioned in the Kur'an. But as there are only vague references to homosexuality in Kur'an, it has never been an issue.Sleeping with men who are usually referred as "boys" was very common.It was not something looked upon.

The reputation of hamams (baths) in Turkey comes from this age. The "tellaks" (young boys who helped men to have a bath) did not only work for washing the men. They also served as male prostitutes. There is a book in the Ottoman archives called "Dellakname-i Dilkusa" (The Record of Tellaks). It tells about the most famous "tellaks" of Istanbul. The way they serve their customers, their price, how many times they can make you reach orgasm, the rate of their beauty and many more details are mentioned in this book.

Literature is one of the areas where there is eternal freedom of homosexuality. ottoman Literature is called "Divan Literature". In Divan Literature there are many poems written by male poets about their male lovers. These poems were about how beautiful these boy lovers were. None of these the poet talks about his boy lover and he complains that his beard is starting to grow and because of this his beauty is going away. Boys were maybe kind of substitutes for women who had smooth skin with no hairs. Those poems are in a very old fashioned, hard to understand Turkish which is called Ottoman and are in literature books for high school students.There was no pressure from the authorities on the poets for writing such poems about boys. Actually sex with boys were not legally forbidden and even the sultans were engaged in sex with male boys.

Some of the sultans had famous affairs with boys. There was even a palace for boys in Bursa. In this palace sultan kept many young boys who served the men in the army. In the Ottoman Times the army was at war away from home for months and sometimes years. It was not something logical to take women with them.SO they took those boys from the palace. They could fight soldiers during day time and at night they visited the soldiers` tents for their special service.This tradition just like in other Islamic cultures was not conscious homosexuality. These men were engaged in sex with women too and sex with boys were just something pleasant for them and they thought they really needed women. Because one of the main orders of Islam is to breed.That's why they needed women.

This tolerance for homosexuality disappeared in the early 19th century with the adoption of western culture. The sultans went on some renovations and the source was France. With the changes in the governmental and social system, the ideas were adopted too. Because of Christianity, male to male sex was strongly refused in the European culture. This effected ottoman society too and those kind of relationships were started to be looked upon.But of course a tradition that had been going on for such a long time didn't disappear. There is still a hamam culture which is still going on but not as common as it used to be. And extreme nationalists who take great pride in ottoman culture still deny this side of Ottomans.

http://www.qrd.org/qrd/www/world/europe/turke...
terrorgayfilthoc rat

Edmonton, Canada

#15 Jun 30, 2014
don't you love how depraved you filthy fick-slimey-o-terrorists throwbacks really are...
terrorgayfilthoc rat

Edmonton, Canada

#16 Jun 30, 2014
TURKISH ARMY - Gay Porn Archive - LOL

http://www.counterpunch.org/2012/03/09/the-tu...

Compulsory military service in Turkey applies to all male citizens from twenty to forty-one years of age. The duration is up to fifteen months, when, apart from training as soldiers, conscripts are forced to work for officers’ private needs, including driving, cooking and serving meals in officers’ clubs.

Most young male Turks accept their obligatory call-up with a resigned shrug. It’s the way things are. Besides, refusing military service due to conscientious objection is illegal, and speaking publicly against the army or conscription rates as “undermining Turkish people’s zeal towards military” and “insulting the spirit of the Armed Forces”, both punishable offences. Better to bear the term in military hell than face censure and perhaps prison.

Or what about another way out? For example, homosexuality is perceived as an illness by the Turkish military, and gays and bisexuals are barred from serving. Why not just claim to be gay, and get away? Well, it’s not quite as easy as that. Apart from the social stigma of being openly gay in macho-minded Turkey, the top brass want evidence.

All you have to do to get out of doing your military service is to present photographic or video evidence of your participation in homosexal acts with others. Get shafted and you won’t get drafted! You might get some friends to help out. Then after intimate questioning by army officers and perhaps an anal check-up, if they’re convinced you’re gay you’ll be barred from the military. Yippee! No more “You’re in the Army now!” But at what a cost! And what happened to those sordid pictures the inspecting officers were poring over? They will be kept in your confidential file in Ankara Military Hospital, which has been described as ‘the biggest state owned gay porn archive in the world.’ Yes, many unfortunate gay brothers have been forced to degrade themselves in such a way rather than endure time in the army.

A recent Turkish film,“Zenne,” movingly depicts one such case. The man who came out rather than face military service was shot and killed by his conservative father.

Mehmet Tahan, an anti-war protestor, who, although gay, refused to recognize his sexuality as an illness or an excuse to escape service, spent several months as a conscientious objector in prison, where he was tortured and threatened. In a statement before his arrest Mehmet Tahan said:

“I condemn every kind of violence and believe that joining or condoning violence will only result in new violence and everyone will be responsible for the consequences. I think that wars caused by power-mongering states are first and foremost a violation of the right to life. The violation of the right to life is a crime against humanity and no international convention or law can justify this crime, regardless of any rationale. I therefore declare that I won’t be an agent of such crime under any circumstances. I will not serve any military apparatus.”

Well said! Go shaft your draft!
Rev Donald Wildmoan

Philadelphia, PA

#17 Jun 30, 2014
terrorfilthturk wrote:
<quoted text>
lol, did it hurt your feelings, confused little toorkey?
I'm neither Armenian nor Turkish.

If you didn't merely have a psychosexual fixation on all things homosexual then you would equally be defaming heterosexuality itself based on all the violent raping of women by str8 men, which is far more endemic than...whatever nonsense is occupying your fantasy life and filling your posts..

You are not equally defaming heterosexuals based on their endemic propensity to rape, so we know your posts are just the usual closet case obsessions.
Rev Donald Wildmoan

Philadelphia, PA

#20 Jun 30, 2014
JihadTerrorCult wrote:
<quoted text>
how am I "defaming" homosexuals by exposing the well documented Turkish homosexual subculture of Ottomans to Islamist "nationalists" who deny their homosexual cultural heritage (lulz)? And by your attempt to equate homosexual culture of the Ottomans to such violent crimes as rape, you are defaming homosexuals yourself.
Oh, so due to your evident psychosexual issues you were _complimenting_ Turks for their supposed homosexual raping you can't stop thinking and posting about. Since you here claim nothing you were saying was intended to defame....

The violent rape of women is far more common than homosexual rape. I was merely wondering why homophobic closet cases don't similarly defame heterosexuality itself based on the statistics...but that question of mine answers the question.
Rev Donald Wildmoan

Philadelphia, PA

#21 Jun 30, 2014
TerrorGayJihad wrote:
To me that's an indication that this thread bothered you.
That's right. I am always curious how homophobic, homosexually fixated closet cases explain their fixation to themselves.

And yes, educated person in the West now consider homophobia to be bothersome. An outlier nuisance from closet case rubes and various sorts of hypocritical mullahs, really.

Hope that helps!
Larry Craig s WC Stance

Philadelphia, PA

#23 Jul 1, 2014
nopointlesscomebacks wrote:
please...you are so lacking in basic logic, it's funny.
Again, if you weren't attempting to criticize anyone via your extreme, selective fixation on homosexuality (in Turkey,) as I pointed out you are, then you must be complimentary or neutral on the subject.

See, the point is, everything you say is a lie. Of course you were trying to defame.

But we know your sort of homosexual fixation is always a matter of projection.

We know this in part because sexually ill people like you never similarly use rape stats about the violent raping of women to smear heterosexuality and heterosexuals....

My logic is fine. You just don't like the implications.

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