Same-sex marriage: an issue of rights?

Same-sex marriage: an issue of rights?

There are 372 comments on the HeraldNet story from Oct 7, 2012, titled Same-sex marriage: an issue of rights?. In it, HeraldNet reports that:

In a voice freighted with emotion, Gov. Chris Gregoire embraced gay marriage in January saying it is a civil right and denying it to same-sex couples is a vestige of discrimination that needs to be eliminated in the state and nation.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at HeraldNet.

Since: Mar 07

Location hidden

#217 Oct 13, 2012
the light has come wrote:
<quoted text>maybe you need to understand that Topix cross sites. The site I am on is The African American Forum. Everywhere you turn today it is gays trying to force their agenda on the public. Coming out day. Gay pride parades, now SSM........
I understand cros pots, and I alw undertand that some people become obsessed with gay/lesbian threads, despite claiming not to be gay.

I always find that odd.

But, back to your other comments. You have been forced to attend pride parades? I've never been to any.

You are being forced to marry someone of the same gender?

Really?

Since: Mar 07

Location hidden

#218 Oct 13, 2012
the light has come wrote:
<quoted text>........ There was a woman that played on the WNBA said she chose to be a lesbian. She said she was not born gay. Many gay people that came out of homosexual confess they had some some kind of abuse that made them gay. That is their story. You may believe people are born gay but everyone is not convinced.
Statistics have already proved that the idea that abuse as a child can make a person gay is nothing but hot air.

And, as I said, we all apply labels to ourselves.

But ANY person who has the ability to be attracted to both genders is not gay or straight, they are bi-sexual by definition. And, based on the studies involved, that seems to be much more common with women than with men.

Now, I would ask why it is so important to you? And why would it matter to anyone but a gay person?

We tend to accept what people tell us about themselves - life is much more sane that way. Unless you intend to attach every human to a "peter meter" to determine their TRUE orientation, why worry about how other identify themselves?

And why worry if gay folks marry? Is ensuring that OUR families are more secure going to harm you in any way?

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#219 Oct 13, 2012
the light has come wrote:
<quoted text>I am sure that is your opinion of how you see it. We all have our opinion about this issue whether we agree or not. Some people have a deeper insight into this matter but can not share because it would be hard to explain to people who are less enlighten and would reject the knowledge because they are not prepared to accept it. As I said the jury is still out on this matter since science are still looking for answers.
The overwhelming testimony, across all national and cultural lines, is as I've stated.

btw: I am retired from "science".
the light has come

Danville, IL

#220 Oct 13, 2012
Rose_NoHo wrote:
<quoted text>
I was born straight.
<quoted text>
You're just trolling.
I made my comment on this subject in the place for comments. When people hit the reply to a poster they want a two way response.When people jump in the post when the post is not to them, that is trolling. When you asked a question or dispute my posting, I post again my opinion or experience. if you do not want people to respond to your rely, do not hit the reply.
the light has come

Danville, IL

#221 Oct 13, 2012
Rose_NoHo wrote:
<quoted text>
Settle the issue. Choose to be gay.
OK?
I have told you about people that chose to be gay any came out of their homosexual life yet you do not believe people can chose to be gay. You think they are born. There is nothing to be gain by saying the same thing over and over again using different example when you refuse to accept the finding that has been around for a long time.

Since: Apr 11

Panorama City, CA

#222 Oct 13, 2012
the light has come wrote:
<quoted text>I made my comment on this subject in the place for comments. When people hit the reply to a poster they want a two way response.When people jump in the post when the post is not to them, that is trolling. When you asked a question or dispute my posting, I post again my opinion or experience. if you do not want people to respond to your rely, do not hit the reply.
Well, Einstein, this is a public forum. Only want replies from one person? Email them.

Since: Apr 11

Panorama City, CA

#223 Oct 13, 2012
the light has come wrote:
<quoted text>I have told you about people that chose to be gay any came out of their homosexual life yet you do not believe people can chose to be gay.
I think those stories are BS. But you can prove me wrong by choosing to be gay.
the light has come wrote:
You think they are born. There is nothing to be gain by saying the same thing over and over again using different example when you refuse to accept the finding that has been around for a long time.
So, choose to be gay for 24 hours. Let us know how that works for you. OK
the light has come

Danville, IL

#224 Oct 13, 2012
Quest wrote:
<quoted text>
Statistics have already proved that the idea that abuse as a child can make a person gay is nothing but hot air.
And, as I said, we all apply labels to ourselves.
But ANY person who has the ability to be attracted to both genders is not gay or straight, they are bi-sexual by definition. And, based on the studies involved, that seems to be much more common with women than with men.
Now, I would ask why it is so important to you? And why would it matter to anyone but a gay person?
We tend to accept what people tell us about themselves - life is much more sane that way. Unless you intend to attach every human to a "peter meter" to determine their TRUE orientation, why worry about how other identify themselves?
And why worry if gay folks marry? Is ensuring that OUR families are more secure going to harm you in any way?
Why would people make a thread about SSM in AA forum. Why do the gay community try equal their struggle to the black struggles. It is the gay community that wants the support of the straight people to accept them as normal. If straight people do not discuss the subject that have reasons to approve or disapprove. There will never be any advancement for gays. You do not have to believe me but science is still researching this issue today.
the light has come

Danville, IL

#225 Oct 13, 2012
Rose_NoHo wrote:
<quoted text>
I think those stories are BS. But you can prove me wrong by choosing to be gay.
<quoted text>
So, choose to be gay for 24 hours. Let us know how that works for you. OK
You sound silly. We are strangers on a web site. Nothing I do or not do, you would not know. The only reason you are defending the gay life is because you are one.

Since: Apr 11

Panorama City, CA

#226 Oct 13, 2012
the light has come wrote:
<quoted text>You sound silly. We are strangers on a web site. Nothing I do or not do, you would not know. The only reason you are defending the gay life is because you are one.
So, are you going to choose to be gay for 24 hours or not?
Come on, time to put up or shut up.
And I'm straight.
the light has come

Danville, IL

#227 Oct 13, 2012
Rose_NoHo wrote:
<quoted text>
So, are you going to choose to be gay for 24 hours or not?
Come on, time to put up or shut up.
And I'm straight.
Is it dumb of you say you are straight when you been getting it on with women. Anyone that is smart know not to put personal info on this forum. I am a stranger to you and I will never make a post about what I do in private to please you. You can say you are straight but I read your own words you were doing what lesbian do. I do not see any profit in us continuing this back and forth. I stated my opinion, you read it, so why keep saying the same thing over and over again.

Since: Apr 11

Panorama City, CA

#228 Oct 13, 2012
the light has come wrote:
<quoted text>Is it dumb of you say you are straight when you been getting it on with women. Anyone that is smart know not to put personal info on this forum. I am a stranger to you and I will never make a post about what I do in private to please you. You can say you are straight but I read your own words you were doing what lesbian do. I do not see any profit in us continuing this back and forth. I stated my opinion, you read it, so why keep saying the same thing over and over again.
Were you straight before you first had sex or not?

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#229 Oct 13, 2012
the light has come wrote:
<quoted text>Why would people make a thread about SSM in AA forum. Why do the gay community try equal their struggle to the black struggles. It is the gay community that wants the support of the straight people to accept them as normal. If straight people do not discuss the subject that have reasons to approve or disapprove. There will never be any advancement for gays. You do not have to believe me but science is still researching this issue today.
What is the "AA forum" ?

TOPIX cross-posts into any forum category that it thinks is pertinent.

Remember, I am retired from the very "science" you mention.

In the meantime, shall we vote on YOUR relationships?

“Brutally honest. ”

Since: Nov 08

Location hidden

#230 Oct 13, 2012
the light has come wrote:
<quoted text>Why would people make a thread about SSM in AA forum. Why do the gay community try equal their struggle to the black struggles. It is the gay community that wants the support of the straight people to accept them as normal. If straight people do not discuss the subject that have reasons to approve or disapprove. There will never be any advancement for gays. You do not have to believe me but science is still researching this issue today.
You do not read closely.

They were tagged in both forums. It happens frequently.

Gay people know a lot about research, a lot more than you do. Here is some science for you. At one point, a founding father of this country argued that black people did not have the intellectual ability to be equal to white people. We know this is horribly untrue, and was debunked by advancements in science later on.

Black struggles and gay struggles are patently different, but please do not corner the market on civil rights and acceptance. Women, minorities of religion, and other racial minorities will disagree with you. In the meantime, gay people are struggling to be accepted as people of positive influence on society, and governmental recognition and as a minority that needs protection. Religion is a protected status and that is obviously a choice. Even if homosexuality is a choice, it deserves protection.

And before you rant about unrelated and insulting correlations, we are talking about a consenting mutual ADULT decision.

“Post-religious”

Since: Apr 08

Location hidden

#231 Oct 13, 2012
the light has come wrote:
<quoted text>Why would people make a thread about SSM in AA forum. Why do the gay community try equal their struggle to the black struggles....
In addition to the obvious that this thread is cross-posted and you apparently have no idea what that means or how that works, has it ever occurred to you that some gay people are black, and that some black people are gay?
the light has come

Danville, IL

#232 Oct 14, 2012
snyper wrote:
<quoted text>
What is the "AA forum" ?
TOPIX cross-posts into any forum category that it thinks is pertinent.
Remember, I am retired from the very "science" you mention.
In the meantime, shall we vote on YOUR relationships?
AA forum is African American forum. If this subject was not posted on this forum it would not appeared. You may retired from this scientific research but the controversy is still going on.Check out any search engine and the experts are still not in agreement.
the light has come

Danville, IL

#233 Oct 14, 2012
Jerald wrote:
<quoted text>
In addition to the obvious that this thread is cross-posted and you apparently have no idea what that means or how that works, has it ever occurred to you that some gay people are black, and that some black people are gay?
Have it occur to you that people see a black face but can not see if a person is gay.
the light has come

Danville, IL

#234 Oct 14, 2012
whitefalcon1678 wrote:
<quoted text>
You do not read closely.
They were tagged in both forums. It happens frequently.
Gay people know a lot about research, a lot more than you do. Here is some science for you. At one point, a founding father of this country argued that black people did not have the intellectual ability to be equal to white people. We know this is horribly untrue, and was debunked by advancements in science later on.
Black struggles and gay struggles are patently different, but please do not corner the market on civil rights and acceptance. Women, minorities of religion, and other racial minorities will disagree with you. In the meantime, gay people are struggling to be accepted as people of positive influence on society, and governmental recognition and as a minority that needs protection. Religion is a protected status and that is obviously a choice. Even if homosexuality is a choice, it deserves protection.
And before you rant about unrelated and insulting correlations, we are talking about a consenting mutual ADULT decision.
You can speak for yourself and give your opinion like me. There have been threads on this site, The African American where Gays were trying to use the black civil rights movement as if they had the same struggle. Everyday there is racist threads and posting against black people. In one of my posting I said this is a hot button issue. I said that the jury is still out on whether people are born gay or learn. I was attack as to say I am wrong. You do not have to take my word for it. Check out any search engine and you will see the there are scientific experts on both sides giving their opinion. You can speak from your experience but everyone will not agree with you.

“Post-religious”

Since: Apr 08

Location hidden

#235 Oct 14, 2012
the light has come wrote:
<quoted text>Have it occur to you that people see a black face but can not see if a person is gay.
Race is not a biological characteristic; it is a cultural attribute. Is Barack Obama black because he had a black father, or white because he had a white mother? Homer Plessy was only 1/8ths black and indistinguishable from a white person, but his being kept off a Louisiana train car in 1893 solidified an era of "separate but equal for over 50 years. To get the test case started, he had to bring his birth certificate to prove that he was black under Louisiana law.

An individual's religion is difficult or impossible to discern solely from a person's face. Ethnicity is often unclear just by one's physiognomy. Even gender may not always be apparent.

And yet discrimination based on any of these factors is against the law. Similarly, people can see a white face and not know if it is that of a gay person. When someone finds out that a person is a particular religion, ethnicity, gender or sexual orientation, discrimination based on these characteristics should be equally illegal.

And there remains no rational basis for denying the right to obtain a civil marriage solely on the basis of the gender of one partner relative to the other. All arguments in opposition are illogical, irrational, or based on ignorance, animus, fear, or religious superstition or myth.

There is no rational basis for creating a "separate but equal" institution for establishing kinship between unrelated adults when a perfectly suitable one already exists: civil marriage.

“Post-religious”

Since: Apr 08

Location hidden

#236 Oct 14, 2012
the light has come wrote:
<quoted text>You can speak for yourself and give your opinion like me. There have been threads on this site, The African American where Gays were trying to use the black civil rights movement as if they had the same struggle. Everyday there is racist threads and posting against black people. In one of my posting I said this is a hot button issue. I said that the jury is still out on whether people are born gay or learn. I was attack as to say I am wrong. You do not have to take my wor,d for it. Check out any search engine and you will see the there are scientific experts on both sides giving their opinion. You can speak from your experience but everyone will not agree with you.
Even assuming that people aren't "born gay", so what? People aren't born with a religion, either, and people change or drop them all the time. Yet we don't deny civil marriage based on the partners' religion.

And to be clear, the legal discrimination in civil marriage is NOT based on sexual orientation. Gay people can get married in EVERY state in the union. Indeed, gay COUPLES can get married in EVERY state in the union, provided one partner is a gay man and the other is a gay woman.

While the practical and effective discrimination is of sexual orientation, the legal discrimination is based solely on the GENDER or SEX of one partner relative to the other. No state bars gay people from getting married.

Just as there is no such legal construct as "interracial marriage" or "interfaith marriage", there is no such legal construct as "gay marriage" or "same-sex marriage" in any of the jurisdictions that recognize civil marriage for same-sex couples.

There is just civil marriage.

If you don't believe me, feel free to find and link to any state's law that offers a "gay marriage certificate" or "same-sex marriage" certificate.

You won't find one.

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