Rethinking the Bible on homosexuality

Feb 10, 2011 Full story: religion.blogs.cnn.com 22,378

We often hears that Christians have no choice but to regard homosexuality as a sin - that Scripture simply demands it.

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“Plays well with others.”

Since: Jun 07

LIVING WELL*THE BEST REVENGE

#1 Feb 10, 2011
This is a very interesting piece. It lays it out clearly. God loves US. That is the bottom line. I feel sorry for homophobic bigots and their counterparts.

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“The Kingdom of God Begins NOW!”

Since: May 07

The Mountain Empire

#2 Feb 10, 2011
Only a little more than a century ago, many of the very same passages now being invoked to argue that the scriptures label homosexuality a sin or that God cannot countenance gay marriage were used to justify not “biblical marriage” but slavery.

Yes, the apostle Paul selected same-sex pairings as one among many possible examples of human sin, but he also assumed that slavery was acceptable and then did nothing to protect slaves from sexual use by their masters, a common practice at the time. Letters attributed to him go so far as to command slaves to obey their masters and women to obey their husbands as if they were obeying Christ.

These passages served as fundamental proof texts to those who were arguing that slavery was God’s will and accusing abolitionists of failing to obey biblical mandates.

It is therefore disturbing to hear some Christian leaders today claim that they have no choice but to regard homosexuality as a sin. They do have a choice and should be held accountable for the ones they are making.

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Why some people have to always have someone below them to feel better about themselves is beyond me.....

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“... truth will out.”

Since: May 08

Stratford, Connecticut.

#3 Feb 10, 2011
from religion.blogs.cnn:

"Despite common misperceptions, biblical writers could also imagine same-sex intimacy as a source of blessing. For example, the seemingly intimate relationship between the Old Testament's David and Jonathan, in which Jonathan loved David more than he loved women, may have been intended to justify David’s rise as king.

"Jonathan, not David, was a king’s son. David was only a shepherd. Yet by becoming David’s 'woman,' Jonathan voluntarily gave up his place for his beloved friend."

And this is called "Rethinking the Bible"?

But here's CNN's disclaimer: "The opinions expressed in this commentary are solely those of Jennifer Wright Knust."

“Ecce! Sic transit gloria mundi”

Since: Oct 10

I See New Jerusalem From Here.

#4 Feb 11, 2011
LMAO - And you all thought I was crazy when I said I was a hermaphrodite for Jesus!

I can wait to read the screams of outrage from the Looney Tunes Gang.

From the article:

In Genesis, for example, it would seem that God’s original intention for humanity was androgyny, not sexual differentiation and heterosexuality.

And

Ancient Christians and Jews explained this two-step creation by imagining that the first human person possessed the genitalia of both sexes. Then, when the androgynous, dually-sexed person was placed in the garden, s/he was divided in two.

And

When the apostle Paul envisioned the bodies that would be given to humanity at the end of time, he imagined that they would be androgynous,“not male and female.” The third-century non-canonical Gospel of Philip, meanwhile, lamented that sexual difference had been created at all:“If the female had not separated from the male, she and the male would not die. That being’s separation became the source of death.”

From these perspectives, God’s original plan was sexual unity in one body, not two. The Genesis creation stories can support the notion that sexual intercourse is designed to reunite male and female into one body, but they can also suggest that God’s blessing was first placed on an undifferentiated body that didn’t have sex at all.
Heterosexual sex was therefore an afterthought designed to give back the man what he had lost.

QED!

“The Kingdom of God Begins NOW!”

Since: May 07

The Mountain Empire

#5 Feb 12, 2011
Joe DeCaro wrote:
from religion.blogs.cnn:
But here's CNN's disclaimer: "The opinions expressed in this commentary are solely those of Jennifer Wright Knust."
If only David Virtue would do the same..........

“Plays well with others.”

Since: Jun 07

LIVING WELL*THE BEST REVENGE

#6 Feb 12, 2011
MiddleWay wrote:
<quoted text>
If only David Virtue would do the same..........
That david Virtue person seems dangerous to me...just saying.

“... truth will out.”

Since: May 08

Stratford, Connecticut.

#7 Feb 12, 2011
MiddleWay wrote:
<quoted text>
If only David Virtue would do the same..........
Why would Virtue present such a bizzare view as orthodox, and then add a disclaimer?

“Ecce! Sic transit gloria mundi”

Since: Oct 10

I See New Jerusalem From Here.

#8 Feb 12, 2011
Joe DeCaro wrote:
<quoted text>
Why would Virtue present such a bizzare view as orthodox, and then add a disclaimer?
'Bizarre' is a good term to use when reading an article published from the website. One certainly would expect to find any kind of 'virtue' there.

“The Kingdom of God Begins NOW!”

Since: May 07

The Mountain Empire

#9 Feb 13, 2011
Joe DeCaro wrote:
<quoted text>
Why would Virtue present such a bizzare view as orthodox, and then add a disclaimer?
Because he's wrong and a drama queen, just like you.

Just ask Thinking Anglicans.

:-).......
Think Again

Greenville, NC

#10 Feb 13, 2011
T McCabe wrote:
LMAO - And you all thought I was crazy when I said I was a hermaphrodite for Jesus!
I can wait to read the screams of outrage from the Looney Tunes Gang.
From the article:
In Genesis, for example, it would seem that God’s original intention for humanity was androgyny, not sexual differentiation and heterosexuality.
And
Ancient Christians and Jews explained this two-step creation by imagining that the first human person possessed the genitalia of both sexes. Then, when the androgynous, dually-sexed person was placed in the garden, s/he was divided in two.
And
When the apostle Paul envisioned the bodies that would be given to humanity at the end of time, he imagined that they would be androgynous,“not male and female.” The third-century non-canonical Gospel of Philip, meanwhile, lamented that sexual difference had been created at all:“If the female had not separated from the male, she and the male would not die. That being’s separation became the source of death.”
From these perspectives, God’s original plan was sexual unity in one body, not two. The Genesis creation stories can support the notion that sexual intercourse is designed to reunite male and female into one body, but they can also suggest that God’s blessing was first placed on an undifferentiated body that didn’t have sex at all.
Heterosexual sex was therefore an afterthought designed to give back the man what he had lost.
QED!
This is not what Jesus stated in Matthew's Gospel.

Matthew 19:4-5

4 And He answered and said to them,“Have you not read that He who made them at the beginning ‘made them male and female,’5 and said,‘For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh’?

“The Kingdom of God Begins NOW!”

Since: May 07

The Mountain Empire

#11 Feb 13, 2011
Think Again wrote:
<quoted text>
This is not what Jesus stated in Matthew's Gospel.
Matthew 19:4-5
4 And He answered and said to them,“Have you not read that He who made them at the beginning ‘made them male and female,’5 and said,‘For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh’?
In context, Jesus was saying NO DIVORCE.

When are you jumping on that band wagon, along with stoning those who commit adultery?

See how one is an action and homosexuality is not a verb..........
Think Again

Greenville, NC

#12 Feb 13, 2011
MiddleWay wrote:
<quoted text>
In context, Jesus was saying NO DIVORCE.
When are you jumping on that band wagon, along with stoning those who commit adultery?
See how one is an action and homosexuality is not a verb..........
You have to be first married to get a divorce. Jesus reaffirmed God's intention for marriage as established in creation.

“... truth will out.”

Since: May 08

Stratford, Connecticut.

#13 Feb 13, 2011
MiddleWay wrote:
<quoted text>
In context, Jesus was saying NO DIVORCE ...
"The Rev. Robert Gagnon, a New Testament professor at Pittsburgh Theological Seminary, challenged those who argued that Jesus said nothing about homosexuality.

"When Jesus insisted on monogamous marriage, he predicated it on a passage in Genesis which says that 'from the beginning God made them male and female ... In other words, the fact that God had designed two, and only two, sexes for complementary sexual pairing was Jesus' basis for monogamy.'"

“ WOOF !”

Since: Oct 10

Coolidge, AZ

#14 Feb 13, 2011
Joe DeCaro wrote:
<quoted text>
"The Rev. Robert Gagnon, a New Testament professor at Pittsburgh Theological Seminary, challenged those who argued that Jesus said nothing about homosexuality.
"When Jesus insisted on monogamous marriage, he predicated it on a passage in Genesis which says that 'from the beginning God made them male and female ... In other words, the fact that God had designed two, and only two, sexes for complementary sexual pairing was Jesus' basis for monogamy.'"
But the ancient Jews were polygamous. The Jews didn't become [mostly] monogamous until about 1500 AD. So how could Jesus be talking about monogamy, if teh standard of the day was polygamy ?

“... truth will out.”

Since: May 08

Stratford, Connecticut.

#15 Feb 13, 2011
FaFoxy wrote:
<quoted text>
But the ancient Jews were polygamous. The Jews didn't become [mostly] monogamous until about 1500 AD. So how could Jesus be talking about monogamy ...
The same way He could talk about not divorcing -- even though Moses permitted it, it was not what God originally intended.

And unless your name was Solomon, I doubt most ancient Jews could afford to be polygamous.

“ WOOF !”

Since: Oct 10

Coolidge, AZ

#16 Feb 13, 2011
Joe DeCaro wrote:
<quoted text>
The same way He could talk about not divorcing -- even though Moses permitted it, it was not what God originally intended.
And unless your name was Solomon, I doubt most ancient Jews could afford to be polygamous.
Since females wre property, I imagine thet could have as many wives as they wanted, and then divorced them whenevr they wanted. The women had no say in the matter. Jews were polygamous until about 1500 A.D. when they began moving into Europe in large numbers, and they didn't want an additional thing to antagonize the Christians there. And some Jews are still polygamous.

Jesus taught the Golden Rule. I don't think he engaged in legalistic arguments such as whether polygamy was permitted or not.

“... truth will out.”

Since: May 08

Stratford, Connecticut.

#17 Feb 13, 2011
FaFoxy wrote:
... Jesus taught the Golden Rule. I don't think he engaged in legalistic arguments such as whether polygamy was permitted or not.
Jesus was quoting Genesis to legalists called Pharisees in terms they could understand.

“Son of Abraham”

Since: Aug 07

Natural Deviant

#18 Feb 13, 2011
MiddleWay wrote:
Only a little more than a century ago, many of the very same passages now being invoked to argue that the scriptures label homosexuality a sin or that God cannot countenance gay marriage were used to justify not “biblical marriage” but slavery.
Yes, the apostle Paul selected same-sex pairings as one among many possible examples of human sin, but he also assumed that slavery was acceptable and then did nothing to protect slaves from sexual use by their masters, a common practice at the time. Letters attributed to him go so far as to command slaves to obey their masters and women to obey their husbands as if they were obeying Christ.
These passages served as fundamental proof texts to those who were arguing that slavery was God’s will and accusing abolitionists of failing to obey biblical mandates.
It is therefore disturbing to hear some Christian leaders today claim that they have no choice but to regard homosexuality as a sin. They do have a choice and should be held accountable for the ones they are making.
----------
Why some people have to always have someone below them to feel better about themselves is beyond me.....
Paul never stated 'sex between men' in the original text.

In Corinthians he specifically stated "male bed" and "soft" (as in morals). He did NOT use any Greek term which would indicate homosexuality. The terms are so vague the passage was condemning masturbation less than a hundred years ago.

As for Romans, it's a letter condemning idolatry and has nothing to do with sexual orientation.

“The Kingdom of God Begins NOW!”

Since: May 07

The Mountain Empire

#21 Feb 14, 2011
Think Again wrote:
<quoted text>
You have to be first married to get a divorce. Jesus reaffirmed God's intention for marriage as established in creation.
So was Jesus married?

“The Kingdom of God Begins NOW!”

Since: May 07

The Mountain Empire

#22 Feb 14, 2011
McMike wrote:
<quoted text>
Paul never stated 'sex between men' in the original text.
In Corinthians he specifically stated "male bed" and "soft" (as in morals). He did NOT use any Greek term which would indicate homosexuality. The terms are so vague the passage was condemning masturbation less than a hundred years ago.
As for Romans, it's a letter condemning idolatry and has nothing to do with sexual orientation.
Indeed, I was simply quoting the article..........

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