Baptists consider dropping Boy Scouts over stance on gay scouts

There are 917 comments on the The Clarion-Ledger story from Jun 11, 2013, titled Baptists consider dropping Boy Scouts over stance on gay scouts. In it, The Clarion-Ledger reports that:

The Rev. A.J. Smith says it's too early for Southern Baptists to give up on the Boy Scouts.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at The Clarion-Ledger.

“THERE IS NO GOD”

Since: Feb 09

Northern California

#867 Jun 25, 2013
heartandmind wrote:
<quoted text>
correction : YOUR interpretation of what you THINK YOUR bible says
There are 233 English translation-versions of the Bible. Many of them contradict each other, and yet people still insist it is the word of God. Which God? This means there are 233 God's?

1 COR. 7:36 ("But if a man thinketh that he behaveth himself unseemly toward his virgin daughter...and if need so requireth, let him do what he will; he sinneth not; let them marry"--AS) versus the BBE, NAB, KJ, NI, NEB, NWT AND ML which omit the word "daughter." The latter don't agree with the ASV's teaching that fathers should marry their daughters rather than behave "unseemly" toward them.

GAL. 3:24 ("Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring <or lead> us to Christ"--KJ, AS, BBE, NWT, NAS, NI, LV) versus ("...the law served as our custodian until Christ came"--ML, LB, RS, JB, NEB, NAB, TEV). If the law served as our custodian until christ came as the latter asserts, then it no longer held that role after he arrived which the former projects. The first version does not rule out its guidance after his arrival. Moreover, serving as our custodian does not necessarily mean it's bringing us to Christ.

1 TIM. 3:2, 12 & Titus 1:6 ("A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife...."--KJ, ML, RS, LB, AS, BBE, NI, NWT, NEB, NAS, TEV, LV) versus ("A bishop must be irreproachable, married only once"--JB, NAB). The JB and NAB clearly limit a bishop to only one wife whereas the former do not keep him from having many wives as long as he has no more than one at a time.

1 TIM. 3:16 ("...great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh...."--KJ) versus ("Great indeed, we confess, is the mystery of our religion: He was manifested in the flesh...."--RS, ML, JB, NI, AS, BBE, NEB, NAB, TEV, NWT, NAS). With differences of this magnitude is it any wonder that the King James only supporters are up-in-arms. In this instance, the KJ is the only version clearly saying God was manifest in the flesh. If "he" is referring to Jesus Christ, then it is only stating the obvious. If Jesus came, he came in the flesh or as a man. But it doesn't say he was God or God came in the flesh.

1 TIM. 4:4 ("For every creature of God is good...."--KJ, AS) versus ("For everything created by God is good...."--RS, ML, LB, JB, NI, BBE, NEB, NAB, TEV, NWT, NAS, LV). If everything created by God is good, that would include far more than just the "creatures" mentioned in the KJ and ASV.

1 TIM. 6:10 ("For the love of money is the root of all evil"--KJ, RS, ML, JB, NEB, NAS, LV) versus ("For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil"--NI, AS, TEV, NAS) versus ("For the love of money is a root of all evil"--BBE) versus ("For the love of money is a root of all sorts of injurious things"--NWT). Is the love of money "a" root or "the" root? If it's "a" root then there could be many others. Is it the root of "all evil" or "all kinds of evil"? "All kinds" does not mean "all evil." Some could be excluded.

2 TIM. 3:16 ("All scripture is given by inspiration of God"--KJ, RS, ML, LB, JB, NI, BBE, NAB, TEV, NWT, NAS) versus ("Every scripture inspired of God is also profitable for teaching...."--AS, NEB, LV). A cardinal belief of all fundamentalists is that all scripture is inspired, but that is clearly not the import of the AS, NEB and LV. They leave open the possibility that some of Scripture is not inspired.

“Together for 24, legal for 5”

Since: Sep 07

Littleton, NH

#868 Jun 25, 2013
Rick in Kansas wrote:
<quoted text>According to the Book of Genesis, there once was a city-state called Sodom, located somewhere in the vicinity of the Dead Sea. Why it was called that is unknown. In Greek, people from Sodom would be referred to as Sodomites. The concept of sodomy comes from the Genesis story, but there is absolutely nothing in the Bible to actually support the notion, it's just a story of God's wrath that most Christians would be familiar with. When the word sodomy was coined, it was as a catch all for acts that the Church disapproved of, oral and anal sex (regardless of the genders participating), bestiality and masturbation, as none would result in procreation. But nowhere in the Bible does it say ANY of these acts EVER actually took place in Sodom. There is a threat of death by gang rape in the story, but it never actually takes place.
The Bible's authors conveniently told us exactly what the sin of Sodom was. It's explained most clearly in Ezekiel. And the people most resembling the Sodomites are the leaders of today's most vocal and "conservative" churches.

"Conservative," like "Christian," has come to mean something very different than it did even 20 years ago. That's why it astounds me that people can read translations of a four thousand year old document and suppose that they know exactly what was meant.

“Together for 24, legal for 5”

Since: Sep 07

Littleton, NH

#869 Jun 25, 2013
God strikes Boy Scouts with lightening! Let the recriminations begin!!

http://www.unionleader.com/article/20130625/N...

“THERE IS NO GOD”

Since: Feb 09

Northern California

#870 Jun 25, 2013
Harve Wall Banger wrote:
That all changed with the new covenant.[blah blah blah snipped]
Jesus: "Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy but to fulfill. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments and shall teach men so, he shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven...." (Matt. 5:17-19) and "it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one tittle of the law to fall" (Luke 16:17) and "The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat: all therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do" (Matt. 23:2-3) and (John 7:19, Mark 1:44)

versus

Paul: "Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ" (Rom. 7:4) and "Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law" (Gal. 3:13) and "For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace" (Rom. 6:14) and "But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter" (Rom. 7:6) and (Rom. 10:4, 3:28, Gal. 3:23-25, 5:2-4, 18, 2:19, 21, 16, 4:10, Eph. 2:15, Col. 2:14, 16, Heb. 7:19, 1 Cor. 8:8 and many others).

Jesus said the law would stand till heaven and earth passed, while Paul said it need no longer be followed.

“what it is, is what it is!”

Since: Jun 13

Location hidden

#871 Jun 25, 2013
nhjeff wrote:
<quoted text>The Bible's authors conveniently told us exactly what the sin of Sodom was. It's explained most clearly in Ezekiel. And the people most resembling the Sodomites are the leaders of today's most vocal and "conservative" churches.

"Conservative," like "Christian," has come to mean something very different than it did even 20 years ago. That's why it astounds me that people can read translations of a four thousand year old document and suppose that they know exactly what was meant.
Well the term Christian came after the Birth of Christ. Hence Christ-ian. Christ like. Christ was born many years after the destruction of Sodom an the other cities.

“Together for 24, legal for 5”

Since: Sep 07

Littleton, NH

#872 Jun 25, 2013
Harve Wall Banger wrote:
<quoted text>
Well the term Christian came after the Birth of Christ. Hence Christ-ian. Christ like. Christ was born many years after the destruction of Sodom an the other cities.
So you would argue that today's "Christian" leaders are behaving in Christ-like manner? They are seeking to enable those cast off by society? They are challenging the hypocrisy of society's powerful? They are living modestly and aiding the old, the sick, the injured, the homeless, the hungry?

See, the word has changed so much that you don't even know what it means.

“Luke laughs at hypocrites!”

Since: Sep 10

Palm Springs, California

#873 Jun 25, 2013
nhjeff wrote:
<quoted text>
So you would argue that today's "Christian" leaders are behaving in Christ-like manner? They are seeking to enable those cast off by society? They are challenging the hypocrisy of society's powerful? They are living modestly and aiding the old, the sick, the injured, the homeless, the hungry?
See, the word has changed so much that you don't even know what it means.
Oh, they're aiding the hungry. I used to live near a school in Long Beach and on Sunday they would rent out the auditorium to a holy roller church. Oh, my, you should have heard the waling and singing for HOURS. I liked it that everyone walking to the church would carry big pink boxes of donuts and later we would have to clean up napkins and empty pink boxes, thoughtlessly tossed by the holy righteous ones.

If you went downtown Long Beach, later on Sunday afternoon, I would see them, still in their Sunday go to meeting clothes, lined up at Home Town Buffet, a cheap all you can stuff down chain. They would be in food coma and glancing inside at the place I would note tables COVERED in empty platters that they had fed upon, all bright and cheery with the word of Jesus in their heads, ignoring the sin of gluttony.

BTW, the neighbors put up such a fuss that the school STOPPED renting out the auditorium, too messy and using a secular school for religious purposes. We got that nonsense knocked right off and did NOT have to clean up after those filthy slobs anymore.

“what it is, is what it is!”

Since: Jun 13

Location hidden

#874 Jun 25, 2013
nhjeff wrote:
<quoted text>So you would argue that today's "Christian" leaders are behaving in Christ-like manner? They are seeking to enable those cast off by society? They are challenging the hypocrisy of society's powerful? They are living modestly and aiding the old, the sick, the injured, the homeless, the hungry?

See, the word has changed so much that you don't even know what it means.
No. Stop putting words in my mouth. I didn't say that's what today's Christians are. I said that is what the word Christian stands for. I even broke the word down to explain what the word stands for. Christ hadn't been born during the time of Sodom. Also you can't classify the group of people as whole because a select few. Most Christian churches today take care of the poor, needy, the injured, the homeless and hungry. They also do a lot more than that. They also send missionary's to teach, to give medicine to people in the third world country's, to treat and care for people with AIDS in foreign countries and also here in the US, they also do disaster relief whenever there are there are national disasters here and abroad. I personally some years ago unloaded by hand 23,000 lbs of bottled water in communities affected by the floods in Southern West Virginia. Summer of 2001. The bottled water was paid for and donated by a large Church Organization. So I really don't know what Christians you are talking about. Must be the ones in your back yard drinking a beer committing adultery with one of your very close family members. So I really don't like how people talk down about Christians just because they believe differently from them. I don't think any two people in this world completely agrees with each other about anything. So like I said don't judge a entire group of people do to one of the groups actions.

“what it is, is what it is!”

Since: Jun 13

Location hidden

#875 Jun 25, 2013
Curteese wrote:
<quoted text>Oh, they're aiding the hungry. I used to live near a school in Long Beach and on Sunday they would rent out the auditorium to a holy roller church. Oh, my, you should have heard the waling and singing for HOURS. I liked it that everyone walking to the church would carry big pink boxes of donuts and later we would have to clean up napkins and empty pink boxes, thoughtlessly tossed by the holy righteous ones.

If you went downtown Long Beach, later on Sunday afternoon, I would see them, still in their Sunday go to meeting clothes, lined up at Home Town Buffet, a cheap all you can stuff down chain. They would be in food coma and glancing inside at the place I would note tables COVERED in empty platters that they had fed upon, all bright and cheery with the word of Jesus in their heads, ignoring the sin of gluttony.

BTW, the neighbors put up such a fuss that the school STOPPED renting out the auditorium, too messy and using a secular school for religious purposes. We got that nonsense knocked right off and did NOT have to clean up after those filthy slobs anymore.
Oh and how about a couple of churches in my neighborhood that allowed a school to hold classes there until they got the portable temporary trailers in place after a fire burnt the school down. Hmmm should we talk about the nasty kids making a mess in the fellowship hall after lunch each day. I sure am glad they had that union worker custodian there to clean up the messes that those little brats made. Not. The church custodian cleaned up the fellowship hall, the halls, the bathrooms and classrooms everyday while the custodians helped prepare the portable trailers for class before they opened. So lets down the church for allowing the state to run over those two churches and over taking them while the school wasn't operational. You gutless spineless people. Is that all you can do is cut on churches because they disagree with you coward idiocy. Give it a break.

“Together for 24, legal for 5”

Since: Sep 07

Littleton, NH

#876 Jun 25, 2013
Harve Wall Banger wrote:
<quoted text>
No. Stop putting words in my mouth. I didn't say that's what today's Christians are. I said that is what the word Christian stands for. I even broke the word down to explain what the word stands for. Christ hadn't been born during the time of Sodom. Also you can't classify the group of people as whole because a select few. Most Christian churches today take care of the poor, needy, the injured, the homeless and hungry. They also do a lot more than that. They also send missionary's to teach, to give medicine to people in the third world country's, to treat and care for people with AIDS in foreign countries and also here in the US, they also do disaster relief whenever there are there are national disasters here and abroad. I personally some years ago unloaded by hand 23,000 lbs of bottled water in communities affected by the floods in Southern West Virginia. Summer of 2001. The bottled water was paid for and donated by a large Church Organization. So I really don't know what Christians you are talking about. Must be the ones in your back yard drinking a beer committing adultery with one of your very close family members. So I really don't like how people talk down about Christians just because they believe differently from them. I don't think any two people in this world completely agrees with each other about anything. So like I said don't judge a entire group of people do to one of the groups actions.
I do not overlook the contributions made by small traditional churches. I was clearly talking about the most vocal so-called Christians who have inordinate control over our government and who drown out the voices of most Christians.

Is Tony Perkins Christ-like? How do his broad attacks against non-Christians generally and gays and lesbians specifically help bring God's kingdom to earth? How does encouraging kill-the-gays legislation in Uganda and Guyana stack up against Christ's commandments?

The only reason you do not understand me and don't agree is that you don't read carefully enough.

“what it is, is what it is!”

Since: Jun 13

Location hidden

#877 Jun 25, 2013
nhjeff wrote:
<quoted text>I do not overlook the contributions made by small traditional churches. I was clearly talking about the most vocal so-called Christians who have inordinate control over our government and who drown out the voices of most Christians.

Is Tony Perkins Christ-like? How do his broad attacks against non-Christians generally and gays and lesbians specifically help bring God's kingdom to earth? How does encouraging kill-the-gays legislation in Uganda and Guyana stack up against Christ's commandments?

The only reason you do not understand me and don't agree is that you don't read carefully enough.
I really don't have to. I can see what is in you post by glancing over it. All I could see is generalities. Just like gays don't like generalities thrown in there face neither does Christians by Atheists and other non Christian groups. If most Christians didn't love there fellow man they would do the good deeds for Christians only. They take care of people from all walks of life, even the gay people. You don't think there is gay homeless, hungry, sick, injured, moneyless. You aren't going to change hearts and minds with hatred in your heart towards any individual or group.

“Together for 24, legal for 5”

Since: Sep 07

Littleton, NH

#878 Jun 25, 2013
Harve Wall Banger wrote:
<quoted text>
I really don't have to. I can see what is in you post by glancing over it. All I could see is generalities. Just like gays don't like generalities thrown in there face neither does Christians by Atheists and other non Christian groups. If most Christians didn't love there fellow man they would do the good deeds for Christians only. They take care of people from all walks of life, even the gay people. You don't think there is gay homeless, hungry, sick, injured, moneyless. You aren't going to change hearts and minds with hatred in your heart towards any individual or group.
You should not be offended by me. You should be offended by those who claim loudly to represent Christianity and give it such a bad reputation. They are the ones changing what it means to be Christian.

You should be offended by those who call for ending SNAP, Social Security, and Medicaid while pretending to be Christian. You should be offended by. Those who attack Muslims, Jews, atheists, and gays.

I am not the one who generalizes. You assume that anyone who calls himself Christian is good and deserves our respect. But I recognize the difference between those who strive to be Christ-like and those who misuse His name. Unfortunately, it is the latter who currently get attention from politicians and the media.

“what it is, is what it is!”

Since: Jun 13

Location hidden

#879 Jun 25, 2013
nhjeff wrote:
<quoted text>You should not be offended by me. You should be offended by those who claim loudly to represent Christianity and give it such a bad reputation. They are the ones changing what it means to be Christian.

You should be offended by those who call for ending SNAP, Social Security, and Medicaid while pretending to be Christian. You should be offended by. Those who attack Muslims, Jews, atheists, and gays.

I am not the one who generalizes. You assume that anyone who calls himself Christian is good and deserves our respect. But I recognize the difference between those who strive to be Christ-like and those who misuse His name. Unfortunately, it is the latter who currently get attention from politicians and the media.
Oh there is churches on both sides of the political fence. How about that nut Rev. Wright from Chicago. I guess he is a good Christian man, because he does it on the left side of things. I don't think politics belongs in either side of the political spectrum. But you didn't point that side of things out did you. Is it because that they fit your political views. I never brought politics into it you did.

“Together for 24, legal for 5”

Since: Sep 07

Littleton, NH

#880 Jun 25, 2013
Harve Wall Banger wrote:
<quoted text>
Oh there is churches on both sides of the political fence. How about that nut Rev. Wright from Chicago. I guess he is a good Christian man, because he does it on the left side of things. I don't think politics belongs in either side of the political spectrum. But you didn't point that side of things out did you. Is it because that they fit your political views. I never brought politics into it you did.
Sure you did. You've been saying that gays shouldn't marry because some little church mouse might be offended.

So, tell me: Other than Reverend Wright, how many leftist ministers are household names? He's famous only because the right wing tried to smear Obama with his black empowerment theology. If Wright has a leftist social agenda, nobody reported on it. I suspect he supports social programs, but I don't know that.

One more thing: one needn't be a leftist to recognize the difference between Christ's teachings and the Evangelical's priorities.

“what it is, is what it is!”

Since: Jun 13

Location hidden

#881 Jun 25, 2013
nhjeff wrote:
<quoted text>Sure you did. You've been saying that gays shouldn't marry because some little church mouse might be offended.

So, tell me: Other than Reverend Wright, how many leftist ministers are household names? He's famous only because the right wing tried to smear Obama with his black empowerment theology. If Wright has a leftist social agenda, nobody reported on it. I suspect he supports social programs, but I don't know that.

One more thing: one needn't be a leftist to recognize the difference between Christ's teachings and the Evangelical's priorities.
Give a man a fish feed him for a day!
Teach a man to fish feed him for life!

Continually to do everything for somebody does no one any good.

“Luke laughs at hypocrites!”

Since: Sep 10

Palm Springs, California

#882 Jun 25, 2013
Harve Wall Banger wrote:
<quoted text>
Oh and how about a couple of churches in my neighborhood that allowed a school to hold classes there until they got the portable temporary trailers in place after a fire burnt the school down. Hmmm should we talk about the nasty kids making a mess in the fellowship hall after lunch each day. I sure am glad they had that union worker custodian there to clean up the messes that those little brats made. Not. The church custodian cleaned up the fellowship hall, the halls, the bathrooms and classrooms everyday while the custodians helped prepare the portable trailers for class before they opened. So lets down the church for allowing the state to run over those two churches and over taking them while the school wasn't operational. You gutless spineless people. Is that all you can do is cut on churches because they disagree with you coward idiocy. Give it a break.
Hey, I'm trying to be NICE to you. Well, so much for ME giving the Christian a break! Don't make me regret my softening towards you.

That was no church, but a bunch of holy rollers. I'm sure they are in some other store front today. They were very miserable people and no one was sad to see them go. NONE of them lived in that area and considering it was a very gay street, they weren't too nice about that either. And THEY threw their trash all over and the residents had to clean it up, no custodian.

“what it is, is what it is!”

Since: Jun 13

Location hidden

#883 Jun 25, 2013
Curteese wrote:
<quoted text>Hey, I'm trying to be NICE to you. Well, so much for ME giving the Christian a break! Don't make me regret my softening towards you.

That was no church, but a bunch of holy rollers. I'm sure they are in some other store front today. They were very miserable people and no one was sad to see them go. NONE of them lived in that area and considering it was a very gay street, they weren't too nice about that either. And THEY threw their trash all over and the residents had to clean it up, no custodian.
I just don't understand why anyone needs or has the feeling to down a church for the doctrine they practice. If you have something to say about a individual and what they have done. That's a point to be made and argued about. I have experience churches of the same doctrinal belief act totally different from church to church. I am a Pentecostal myself and it took me three churches of the same organization to find the one I felt comfortable in. So all I am saying don't paint with a broad brush a group of people. That is what I was doing with gay individuals lumping them all in a single group and I was wrong. You are doing the same thing with churches. I think gay people and churches can exist at the same time, no mater what the church believes in. They also have a right under the constitution to believe and do what they want under the same constitution that gay people want rights under.

“Together for 24, legal for 5”

Since: Sep 07

Littleton, NH

#884 Jun 26, 2013
Harve Wall Banger wrote:
<quoted text>
Give a man a fish feed him for a day!
Teach a man to fish feed him for life!
Continually to do everything for somebody does no one any good.
Give a man a fish, he will eat for a day.
Teach a man to fish, he will spend every weekend drinking beer and eating peanuts.

“Together for 24, legal for 5”

Since: Sep 07

Littleton, NH

#885 Jun 26, 2013
Harve Wall Banger wrote:
Teach a man to fish feed him for life
I suppose that is why so many Christians oppose funding of public education. I suppose that's why they want to defund Pell grants and eliminate opportunities for the poor to attend college?
heartandmind

Moline, IL

#886 Jun 26, 2013
Harve Wall Banger wrote:
<quoted text>
I really don't have to. I can see what is in you post by glancing over it. All I could see is generalities. Just like gays don't like generalities thrown in there face neither does Christians by Atheists and other non Christian groups. If most Christians didn't love there fellow man they would do the good deeds for Christians only. They take care of people from all walks of life, even the gay people. You don't think there is gay homeless, hungry, sick, injured, moneyless. You aren't going to change hearts and minds with hatred in your heart towards any individual or group.
look, harv, in the guy's defense, there's been years of ugly words thrown at all gays by a segment of the Christian faith group. not all christians - some subsets, some people. when you get that thrown at you for years in varying degrees of anger (and some pretty extreme and downright ugly), you get to where you don't like christianity as a whole. not all christians act kindly towards gay people. most of them are downright ugly. so, yes, many gays are pretty jaded in how they view christians.

the loudest group, or the group with the biggest complaints about gays, has been christians. they've villified us. they've blamed all of the ills of the word upon us. they've proclaimed us to be things we're not. they've tried to make us criminals. and the only excuse that's been tossed out has been that homosexuality offends God and that's why we shouldn't be allowed to be married. which, in the strictest of constitutional views, isn't really a valid reason to deny those same priviliges. sorry, that's been tried in court in both the prop 8 and doma trials and it just didn't hold up under judicial scrutiny.

and i say "they" in reference to christians despite my being a christian - i'm referencing those individuals that've been particularly vile in their words and actions that would claim the name of christianity as solely theirs and no one else's.

i could write so much more but what would be the point.

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