Homo Erectus

Homo Erectus

There are 29 comments on the www.outlookindia.com story from Nov 19, 2012, titled Homo Erectus. In it, www.outlookindia.com reports that:

The true collective consciousness of the world, as I've felt it, is undoubtedly gay. It is now time to come out, I say, to confess that I'm heterosexual and astounded by it.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at www.outlookindia.com.

First Prev
of 2
Next Last
Why I am a Hindu

Delhi, India

#28 Nov 19, 2012
Not Yet Equal wrote:
<quoted text>
...You can still be straight, gay, or bi, even without having sex. And behavior may not always reflect orientation, as in the prison system where availability is an issue....
Agree to all that.
Orientation is independent of behavior.
Disagree. No causal relationship, no empirical support. Self contradictory.
.
Behaviour certainly depends on orientation. But it also depends on a lot of other things, mostly environmental, so gays may be having hetro sex while in a hetro marriage, and hetros can have gay sex in prison when females are not available (as you yourself said in your post, thus contradicting yourself)
.
Also I think reverse dependency is ALSO VERY TRUE. That orientation depends on environment and other peoples behaviours, acting as a stimulus, to which we respond accordingly. Change stimulus and we respond differently. Other people may be behaving with us according to the way we look, which we can't see ourselves most of the time. So if I looked like Heidi Klum and hung out freely with girls, then that causes others to think and behave in a certain way with me, which effects my environment. And also what I learn from girl talk would be different from guy talk. So my thinking and orientation, ie my current orientation is a function of the environment, and at least in part, a result of learning. Which is why I think REORIENTATION is possible in humans, like in some fish, but to a much lesser degree due to our better memories.
.
You seem to suggest that sexual orientation is purely set (and fixed) from birth, which is what I am disagreeing with. Genes and environment both are at play. And good part of what is attractive it is learned after birth (like small boobs or large, thin or shapely, wide hips or big butts..).
.
Similar perhaps to our idea of beauty. I contend that such abstract ideas are actually emergent from countless other ideas that we may not hold consciously to be even related. Like child bearing capability, physical health, chances of better progeny, wealth and virility may all add up to what one finds beautiful. We also seem to develop our idea of what is beautiful depending on what most others declare as beautiful, thus again evidence of learning.
.

Since: Nov 12

Location hidden

#29 Nov 20, 2012
Not Yet Equal wrote:
<quoted text>
Same one. He uses an army of sock puppets and proxy servers so he can talk to himself. The raw hate is not worth acknowledging. Just report it, and let him spew his venom.
Got it!

Since: Oct 12

Location hidden

#30 Nov 20, 2012
Why I am a Hindu wrote:
Agree to all that.

[QUOTE] Orientation is independent of behavior."

Disagree. No causal relationship, no empirical support. Self contradictory.
.
Behaviour certainly depends on orientation. But it also depends on a lot of other things, mostly environmental, so gays may be having hetro sex while in a hetro marriage, and hetros can have gay sex in prison when females are not available (as you yourself said in your post, thus contradicting yourself)
.
Also I think reverse dependency is ALSO VERY TRUE. That orientation depends on environment and other peoples behaviours, acting as a stimulus, to which we respond accordingly. Change stimulus and we respond differently. Other people may be behaving with us according to the way we look, which we can't see ourselves most of the time. So if I looked like Heidi Klum and hung out freely with girls, then that causes others to think and behave in a certain way with me, which effects my environment. And also what I learn from girl talk would be different from guy talk. So my thinking and orientation, ie my current orientation is a function of the environment, and at least in part, a result of learning. Which is why I think REORIENTATION is possible in humans, like in some fish, but to a much lesser degree due to our better memories.
.
You seem to suggest that sexual orientation is purely set (and fixed) from birth, which is what I am disagreeing with. Genes and environment both are at play. And good part of what is attractive it is learned after birth (like small boobs or large, thin or shapely, wide hips or big butts..).
.
Similar perhaps to our idea of beauty. I contend that such abstract ideas are actually emergent from countless other ideas that we may not hold consciously to be even related. Like child bearing capability, physical health, chances of better progeny, wealth and virility may all add up to what one finds beautiful. We also seem to develop our idea of what is beautiful depending on what most others declare as beautiful, thus again evidence of learning.
.

The example of prison rape isn't contradictory to his point. It supports it.

Since: Jun 11

AOL

#31 Nov 20, 2012
Why I am a Hindu wrote:
<quoted text>
Agree to all that.
<quoted text>
Disagree. No causal relationship, no empirical support. Self contradictory.

(Deleted to allow room for response)
Let me try again. The fact you have a sexual orientation... an enduring pattern of emotional and physical attraction to members of the same sex, the opposite sex, or both sexes, is independent of behavior. This is demonstrated by the fact you still have an orientation even if you never express that orientation through behavior.

It is also demonstrated by the fact you can have sex without being emotionally and physically attracted to the partner, as in prison. While there are gay and bisexual people in prison, there are also heterosexual people who have same sex behavior in prison, but after release only express their heterosexual orientation with opposite sex people. They aren't and never were physically and emotionally attracted to the same sex partner. They just used them for sex.

The fact people can still participate in opposite or same sex behavior does not mean they are expressing their orientation. Gay women can easily participate in straight sex without being emotional or physically attracted and many will tell you they did so for years. Men can as well, using their imagination. As Dr. Ruth taught, the largest sex organ is our brain. Gay men can participate in straight sex by imagining they are with a man, especially with the lights out. Opposite sex behavior does not depend on having a heterosexual or even bisexual orientation. Behavior alone does not necessarily reflect an enduring pattern of emotional and physical attraction of the participants. Nor does that behavior cause a change in the pattern of emotional and physical attraction. Many gay men and women married to the opposite sex hoped their attractions would change and spent years in that relationship before finally giving up, and admit their emotional and physical attraction lies only in the opposite sex.

And again, bisexual people complicate the issue as they can be attracted to some individuals of both sexes.(Some believe if all stigma was removed, more people would be somewhere on the bisexual continuum, but that remains speculation.)

But what you are discussing is not sexual orientation, but rather how that orientation is expressed. Preferences for dark hair or light hair, big breasts or athletic build, small, large, etc., are not a sexual orientation, but preferences about how the basic orientation is translated into behavior. And I would agree those details of attraction are learned through all of the ways we learn. But those are expressions of orientation, not the basic orientation itself.
soapmann

Masontown, PA

#32 Nov 20, 2012
youtube.com/watch... ……Old Farts or Young Stinkers

Since: Jun 11

AOL

#33 Nov 20, 2012
As to the issue of Reorientation, or changing sexual orientation, evidence exists both through clinical studies as well as through the personal testimony of millions of gay and straight people around the world who will testify they have no choice over to whom they are emotionally, romantically, and physically attracted. Bisexual people sometimes confuse the issue as it takes some of them a long time to realize that while they experience attractions to some members of both sexes, they have no choice over being attracted. Like gay and straight people, they only have a choice of whether to act on their attractions.

Ironically, much of the research showing orientation is not a choice, comes from attempts to change it. Not only have such efforts shown attempts to change orientation are not successful, they have shown they are often harmful to the point of causing self destructive behavior including suicide.

"Contrary to claims of sexual orientation change advocates and practitioners, there is insufficient evidence to support the use of psychological interventions to change sexual orientation," said Judith M. Glassgold, PsyD, chair of the task force. "Scientifically rigorous older studies in this area found that sexual orientation was unlikely to change due to efforts designed for this purpose. Contrary to the claims of SOCE practitioners and advocates, recent research studies do not provide evidence of sexual orientation change as the research methods are inadequate to determine the effectiveness of these interventions." Glassgold added: "At most, certain studies suggested that some individuals learned how to ignore or not act on their homosexual attractions. Yet, these studies did not indicate for whom this was possible, how long it lasted or its long-term mental health effects. Also, this result was much less likely to be true for people who started out only attracted to people of the same sex."

Based on this review, the task force recommended that mental health professionals avoid misrepresenting the efficacy of sexual orientation change efforts when providing assistance to people distressed about their own or others' sexual orientation.

Insufficient Evidence that Sexual Orientation Change Efforts Work, Says [American Psychological Association]

Since: Jun 11

AOL

#34 Nov 20, 2012
"Despite the general consensus of major medical, health, and mental health professions that both heterosexuality and homosexuality are normal expressions of human sexuality, efforts to change sexual orientation through therapy have been adopted by some political and religious organizations and aggressively promoted to the public. However, such efforts have serious potential to harm young people because they present the view that the sexual orientation of lesbian, gay, and bisexual youth is a mental illness or disorder, and they often frame the inability to change one’s sexual orientation as a personal and moral failure.

Because of the aggressive promotion of efforts to change sexual orientation through therapy, a number of medical, health, and mental health professional organizations have issued public statements about the dangers of this approach. The American Academy of Pediatrics, the American Counseling Association, the American Psychiatric Association, the American Psychological Association, the American School Counselor Association, the National Association of School Psychologists, and the National Association of Social Workers, together representing more than 480,000 mental health professionals, have all taken the position that homosexuality is not a mental disorder and thus is not something that needs to or can be “cured.”

The American Academy of Pediatrics advises youth that counseling may be helpful for you if you feel confused about your sexual identity. Avoid any treatments that claim to be able to change a person’s sexual orientation, or treatment ideas that see homosexuality as a sickness."

Just the Facts About Sexual Orientation and Youth [APP]
well

Stoney Creek, Canada

#35 Nov 20, 2012
Straight erectus.

Since: Oct 12

Location hidden

#36 Nov 20, 2012
"What about therapy intended to change sexual orientation from gay to straight?

All major national mental health organizations have officially expressed concerns about therapies promoted to modify sexual orientation. To date, there has been no scientifically adequate research to show that therapy aimed at changing sexual orientation (sometimes called reparative or conversion therapy) is safe or effective. Furthermore, it seems likely that the promotion of change therapies reinforces stereotypes and contributes to a negative climate for lesbian, gay, and bisexual persons. This appears to be especially likely for lesbian, gay, and bisexual individuals who grow up in more conservative religious settings.

Helpful responses of a therapist treating an individual who is troubled about her or his same-sex attractions include helping that person actively cope with social prejudices against homosexuality, successfully resolve issues associated with and resulting from internal conflicts, and actively lead a happy and satisfying life. Mental health professional organizations call on their members to respect a person’s (client’s) right to self-determination; be sensitive to the client’s race, culture, ethnicity, age, gender, gender identity, sexual orientation, religion, socioeconomic status, language, and disability status when working with that client; and eliminate biases based on these factors."

American Psychological Association

http://www.apa.org/helpcenter/sexual-orientat...

Tell me when this thread is updated:

Subscribe Now Add to my Tracker
First Prev
of 2
Next Last

Add your comments below

Characters left: 4000

Please note by submitting this form you acknowledge that you have read the Terms of Service and the comment you are posting is in compliance with such terms. Be polite. Inappropriate posts may be removed by the moderator. Send us your feedback.

Gay/Lesbian Discussions

Title Updated Last By Comments
News Doritos makes rainbow chips in support of gay r... (Sep '15) 5 min guest 1,523
News Methodist court ruling a blow for openly lesbia... 27 min Pat Robertson s F... 14
News A look at the judges who will rule on Trump's t... 30 min Pat Robertson s F... 106
News What would Jesus say about same-sex marriage? (Jul '15) 1 hr DebraE 5,658
News 'Free Kim Davis': This is just what gay rights ... (Sep '15) 3 hr Wondering 25,360
News Judge won't hear gay adoptions because it's not... 3 hr Wondering 9
News Franklin Graham's Alma Mater Forcing Staff To P... 8 hr Prosperity Fundie... 1
News Colo. gay discrimination alleged over wedding cake (Jun '13) 9 hr Frankie Rizzo 48,191
More from around the web