Episcopal Schism Escalates

Dec 6, 2012 | Posted by: roboblogger | Full story: FITSNews

The national Episcopal Church has announced the renunciation of a "rogue Bishop" in South Carolina - the latest skirmish in its war with the Palmetto State's conservative Lower Episcopal Diocese.

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Listen to the Word

Lake Havasu City, AZ

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#1
Dec 6, 2012
 

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"Renunciation" must be the new code word for "inclusive" for TEC and KJ-S.

They is the type of "inclusion" toward those who actually hold to what TEC believes. Part of the "growth by decline" strategy that TE$C and KJ-S are to proficient at. Like the self-righteous Pharisees in the Bible, TEC and its hitman leadership see themselves as those who can do no wrong. It is easy to do no wrong when you change in the rules as you go along to match your own agenda and excuse your own sins.

Look for more TEC losses.

Since: Aug 09

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#2
Dec 6, 2012
 

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Listen to the Word wrote:
"Renunciation" must be the new code word for "inclusive" for TEC and KJ-S.
They is the type of "inclusion" toward those who actually hold to what TEC believes. Part of the "growth by decline" strategy that TE$C and KJ-S are to proficient at. Like the self-righteous Pharisees in the Bible, TEC and its hitman leadership see themselves as those who can do no wrong. It is easy to do no wrong when you change in the rules as you go along to match your own agenda and excuse your own sins.
Look for more TEC losses.
LOL!!!....

Sounds like you have a "takes one to know one" attitude.

Must be lonely out there.
George

Jacksonville, FL

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#3
Dec 6, 2012
 

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Very interesting that such noted "haters" and "homophobes" as Mark Harris and Tobias Haller all agree that the PB totally misused the canons to get to the result she intended. Add lawless to utterly lacking in morals and sound doctrine to her offenses.

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#4
Dec 6, 2012
 

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George wrote:
Very interesting that such noted "haters" and "homophobes" as Mark Harris and Tobias Haller all agree that the PB totally misused the canons to get to the result she intended. Add lawless to utterly lacking in morals and sound doctrine to her offenses.
Sour grapes and whining.
George

Jacksonville, FL

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#5
Dec 7, 2012
 

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RevKen wrote:
<quoted text>
Sour grapes and whining.
I often also think that about Mark Harris and Tobias Haller who spend their days incessantly complaining about TEO and its PB!!!! You are such a lapdog and apologist for all things Episcopagan that you can't even admit that the PB made a mistake as even her ardent admirers have done. Like Pavlov's dog, as soon as the bell is rung, you are ready to say "my PB right or wrong." Like a good little Nazi - just obeying "orders." Grow a set dude!

“The Kingdom of God Begins NOW!”

Since: May 07

The Mountain Empire

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#6
Dec 7, 2012
 

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George wrote:
<quoted text>
I often also think that about Mark Harris and Tobias Haller who spend their days incessantly complaining about TEO and its PB!!!! You are such a lapdog and apologist for all things Episcopagan that you can't even admit that the PB made a mistake as even her ardent admirers have done. Like Pavlov's dog, as soon as the bell is rung, you are ready to say "my PB right or wrong." Like a good little Nazi - just obeying "orders." Grow a set dude!
We elected her. She does nothing on her own.

Your posts are so revealing about who you are deep inside.

We pray for your bitterness and unrighteous anger to soften you heart and let God in.....

“The Kingdom of God Begins NOW!”

Since: May 07

The Mountain Empire

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#7
Dec 7, 2012
 

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RevKen wrote:
<quoted text>
Sour grapes and whining.
Can you understand how upset nonmembers get?

Must be that old jealousy of watching the breath of God work and wondering why it doesn't for them.....

Since: Aug 09

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#8
Dec 7, 2012
 

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George wrote:
<quoted text>
I often also think that about Mark Harris and Tobias Haller who spend their days incessantly complaining about TEO and its PB!!!! You are such a lapdog and apologist for all things Episcopagan that you can't even admit that the PB made a mistake as even her ardent admirers have done. Like Pavlov's dog, as soon as the bell is rung, you are ready to say "my PB right or wrong." Like a good little Nazi - just obeying "orders." Grow a set dude!
I have a "set," George.

But, having a "set" or the equivalent if female, is not a license to let them lead a person around.

Neither am I any kind of "NAZI." First of all, I am not a socialist. So, that disqualifies me right off the bat.

Secondly, everybody is capable of making mistakes, you and me and PB KJ-S included. But, in the case of Mark Lawrence, I don't think that she has made any mistake. She has simply declared, on the part of TEC, what Lawrence has already set out.

As for me and Episcopalianism, you are right. I like the Episcopalian Way. It is the "Via Media." It is reasonably flexible, able to acknowledge truth as it is discovered and revealed. As a discipline, the principles of the denomination are shown to encompass a range of viewpoints, some of which can be construed to be opposing.

We adhere to the specific Rap-Song ideal: "You better chickety-check yourself, befo' you wreck yourself!" That is what we do and that is what we encourage each other to do. Such self-reflection and sure-footed encroachment into the basis of reasonable doubt is an exercise in the strengthening of Faith.

Most people who are outside, looking in, such as yourself, cannot understand why this condition might actually be preferable; versus becoming a house full of lock-step "NAZI" religious, fundamentalist/literalist zealots. And this we ARE (mostly) NOT.

Three Legged Stool - Tradition, Scripture AND Reason, George.

It works.

Rev. Ken
George

Jacksonville, FL

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#9
Dec 7, 2012
 

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MiddleWay wrote:
<quoted text>
We elected her. She does nothing on her own.
Your posts are so revealing about who you are deep inside.
We pray for your bitterness and unrighteous anger to soften you heart and let God in.....
First off you lie. You have never in your life prayed for me and my "bitteness and unrighteous anger." Second, the fact that the PB was elected has nothing to do with whether or not she acted in violation of the canons. Richard Nixon was elected to his office yet vioated numerous laws while President. Finally - each of our posts are revealing about who we are "deep inside." Your posts and your assessment about me or anyone else clearly demonstrate whom you serve. The father of lies and his illegitimate son are proud of you. Aren't you Ken?

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#10
Dec 7, 2012
 

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George wrote:
<quoted text>
First off you lie. You have never in your life prayed for me and my "bitte[r]ness and unrighteous anger." Second, the fact that the PB was elected has nothing to do with whether or not she acted in violation of the canons. Richard Nixon was elected to his office yet vioated numerous laws while President. Finally - each of our posts are revealing about who we are "deep inside." Your posts and your assessment about me or anyone else clearly demonstrate whom you serve. The father of lies and his illegitimate son are proud of you. Aren't you Ken?
You imply that I am Satan and MiddleWay is my illegitimate son????

LMFAO!!!!.....(The F stands for Friar).

Boy, Georgiekins, that was a Whopper, better than can be found by Wimpy at BurgerKing or paid for on any Tuesday!

Well, I guess I should acknowledge and show my appreciation for the compliment! I certainly do respect the views and positions of MiddleWay in these matters. I have to say, sometimes he is better at getting at your Goat than I am. But, I certainly do try.

As for MW's prayers for you to get through your bitterness and anger,... I think he is actually sincere in this and I think his assessment of some of what motivates you is correct. But, I'm not a psychiatrist, so you'll have to go to one on your own in order to get at the foundation of your obvious misguidance.

In the meantime, look to your sense of humor that you apparently lose so easily, in order to get some relief.

Suggestion: The Gnostic Gospels contain material that shows Jesus having a sense of humor. Get the book written by Elaine Pagels about these writings.

Read it. It is excellent.

Rev. Ken

“The Kingdom of God Begins NOW!”

Since: May 07

The Mountain Empire

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#13
Dec 8, 2012
 

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George wrote:
<quoted text>
First off you lie. You have never in your life prayed for me and my "bitteness and unrighteous anger." Second, the fact that the PB was elected has nothing to do with whether or not she acted in violation of the canons. Richard Nixon was elected to his office yet vioated numerous laws while President. Finally - each of our posts are revealing about who we are "deep inside." Your posts and your assessment about me or anyone else clearly demonstrate whom you serve. The father of lies and his illegitimate son are proud of you. Aren't you Ken?
LOL!

Projecting again!

I do pray for you, every time I read your hate filled posts.

You've got some anger issues....

“The Kingdom of God Begins NOW!”

Since: May 07

The Mountain Empire

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#15
Dec 9, 2012
 
Caleb wrote:
No truly Christian church could ever 'affirm' or bless what God repeatedly condemns in the plainest of terms:
Leviticus 18:22 - You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination.
Leviticus 20:13 - If there is a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act; they shall surely be put to death. Their blood guiltiness is upon them.
Romans 1:26-27 - For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural, and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error.
I Corinthians 6:9 (NIV)- Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.
I Timothy 1:8-11 (NASB)- "But we know that the Law is good, if one uses it lawfully, realizing the fact that law is not made for a righteous person, but for those who are lawless and rebellious, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers and immoral men and homosexuals and kidnappers and liars and perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to sound teaching, according to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, with which I have been entrusted."
Those who do not love, do not know God; because God is love.
George

Jacksonville, FL

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#16
Dec 10, 2012
 

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RevKen wrote:
<quoted text>
Secondly, everybody is capable of making mistakes, you and me and PB KJ-S included. But, in the case of Mark Lawrence, I don't think that she has made any mistake. She has simply declared, on the part of TEC, what Lawrence has already set out.Rev. Ken
You need to take a deep breath and try to understand the implications of what you are saying. Your comment endorses the philosophy that the end justifies the means. The PB may be entirely "right" that Lawrence should no longer be recognized as an Episcopagan bishop, but the PROCESS she followed violates the canons of the church. She usurped the role of the HOB by inventing the existence of a written resignation submitted to her by the Bishop. That never happened. Now you can choose to be governed by rules or you can choose to be governed by fiat. I thought TEO operated under rules - a constitution and canons. She circumvented them exercising what - divine rule? The issue is not what lawrence did or did not do. The issue is whether the method employed by Schori was proper under the canons or was it a manifestation of Shoria law. When a Mark Harris and an Tobias Haller conclude that she acted illegally, it ought to give pause even to her lap dogs. The next time it could be you.

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#18
Dec 10, 2012
 

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George wrote:
<quoted text>
You need to take a deep breath and try to understand the implications of what you are saying. Your comment endorses the philosophy that the end justifies the means. The PB may be entirely "right" that Lawrence should no longer be recognized as an Episcopagan bishop, but the PROCESS she followed violates the canons of the church. She usurped the role of the HOB by inventing the existence of a written resignation submitted to her by the Bishop. That never happened. Now you can choose to be governed by rules or you can choose to be governed by fiat. I thought TEO operated under rules - a constitution and canons. She circumvented them exercising what - divine rule? The issue is not what lawrence did or did not do. The issue is whether the method employed by Schori was proper under the canons or was it a manifestation of Shoria law. When a Mark Harris and an Tobias Haller conclude that she acted illegally, it ought to give pause even to her lap dogs. The next time it could be you.
Oh, Baloney!

Harris and Taller are telling tall tales.

Like YOU wrote, "The PB may be entirely "right" that Lawrence should no longer be recognized as an Episcopagan bishop,..."

We understand what she is doing. Any supposed failures in "legality" will be followed through with the HOBs, anyway.

The PB is intercepting lawrence's pathway toward his own version of freedom that includes taking Church assets and socking them away where they will be hard to track and understand.

Don't anyone here be confused or naive about what is going on - or misled by what Georgiekins, our resident fundamentalist lawyer, has to say.

Lawrence intends to abscond with assets and property. Both, groups, the departing and the Church proper, have had plenty of time to plan their responses to each other's actions.

The Renunciation of Lawrence is done.

Rev. Ken
George

Jacksonville, FL

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#19
Dec 10, 2012
 

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RevKen wrote:
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Oh, Baloney!

We understand what she is doing. Any supposed failures in "legality" will be followed through with the HOBs, anyway.Rev. Ken
Imagine doing that in the judicial system. Sentence the accused to jail and let a judge and jury decide sometime in the future. Its best for society. Ever hear of "due process?" How about the "rule of law?' Neither apply if you like the result, right? Add to the things I don't like about you your weird take on justice.

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#21
Dec 10, 2012
 

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George wrote:
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Imagine doing that in the judicial system. Sentence the accused to jail and let a judge and jury decide sometime in the future. Its best for society. Ever hear of "due process?" How about the "rule of law?' Neither apply if you like the result, right? Add to the things I don't like about you your weird take on justice.
I disagree, respectfully. I do understand why we have civil law and a judicial system.

I also understand that our system of law-abidance allows law enforcement to act, sometimes quickly out of necessity, to prevent or to stem crime.

You paint a picture of a rogue Presiding Bishop who moves with capricious fiat, abandoning all proper convention and canon. But, this is how YOU want to believe she acts. In fact, it is former bishop Lawrence who is operating as a rogue.

The truth is that she moves with the backing of the House of Bishops, and sometimes out of legal necessity in order to prevent. That is part of the capacity of the Presiding Bishop and I am glad we have tthe present person in this office.

When a criminal is "in the act" of robbing the bank, does the policeman politely cite the rule and statute that makes bank robbery a crime, before intervening in the robbery? Obviously no.

So, we have authorized the Office of the Presiding Bishop to move quickly to defend the interests of the Church and to come to the aid of its members in South Carolina.

Sorry you don't see things the same way, choosing instead to show your support for Lawrence.

Rev. Ken
George

Jacksonville, FL

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#23
Dec 11, 2012
 

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RevKen wrote:
<quoted text>
I disagree, respectfully. I do understand why we have civil law and a judicial system.
I also understand that our system of law-abidance allows law enforcement to act, sometimes quickly out of necessity, to prevent or to stem crime.
You paint a picture of a rogue Presiding Bishop who moves with capricious fiat, abandoning all proper convention and canon. But, this is how YOU want to believe she acts. In fact, it is former bishop Lawrence who is operating as a rogue.
The truth is that she moves with the backing of the House of Bishops, and sometimes out of legal necessity in order to prevent. That is part of the capacity of the Presiding Bishop and I am glad we have tthe present person in this office.
When a criminal is "in the act" of robbing the bank, does the policeman politely cite the rule and statute that makes bank robbery a crime, before intervening in the robbery? Obviously no.
So, we have authorized the Office of the Presiding Bishop to move quickly to defend the interests of the Church and to come to the aid of its members in South Carolina.
Sorry you don't see things the same way, choosing instead to show your support for Lawrence.
Rev. Ken
TEO and Lawrence are well rid of each other. I am glad that Bp. Lawrence and the overwhelming majority of his Diocese have left TEO. I am surprised they lasted as long as they did. But the canon under which Schori acted applies when a Biship send a written denunciation of his orders to the PB. It does not authorize the PB to construe other actions as the equivalent even if the entire world would understand them as such. The HOB and Executive Council, regardless of their appreciation of her actions, can't change the fact that she violated the canons. Change the canons to authorize her arrogation of power but beware of concentrating too much power in the hads of a PB.

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#24
Dec 11, 2012
 

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George wrote:
<quoted text>
TEO and Lawrence are well rid of each other. I am glad that Bp. Lawrence and the overwhelming majority of his Diocese have left TEO. I am surprised they lasted as long as they did. But the canon under which Schori acted applies when a Biship send a written denunciation of his orders to the PB. It does not authorize the PB to construe other actions as the equivalent even if the entire world would understand them as such. The HOB and Executive Council, regardless of their appreciation of her actions, can't change the fact that she violated the canons. Change the canons to authorize her arrogation of power but beware of concentrating too much power in the hads of a PB.
George,

Are you still a member of The Episcopal Church?

“The Kingdom of God Begins NOW!”

Since: May 07

The Mountain Empire

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#25
Dec 11, 2012
 
Caleb wrote:
<quoted text>So you think 'love' is sending people to eternal damnation?
The Bible clearly says that is your lot.
No I do not believe in eternal damnation. I believe some people may STILL reject God but GOD NEVER rejects his creation.

Why would I go to hell, I'm heterosexual.

Now, YOU on the other hand, I wonder what your wife would say about your sins.....

“... truth will out.”

Since: May 08

Stratford, Connecticut.

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#26
Dec 11, 2012
 

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MiddleWay wrote:
<quoted text>
No I do not believe in eternal damnation. I believe some people may STILL reject God but GOD NEVER rejects his creation ...
Tell that to Noah.

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