Bishop Robinson: Jesus Must Be Cringing

Nov 8, 2013 | Posted by: roboblogger | Full story: Advocate

Jesus must be embarrassed by the actions of those who claim to follow him - such as those who invoke Christianity in their opposition to the Employment Non-Discrimination Act, says Bishop Gene Robinson.

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“... truth will out.”

Since: May 08

Stratford, Connecticut.

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#41
Nov 17, 2013
 
Rick not in Kansas yet wrote:
<quoted text>Yes, I have actually ...
Then why didn't you know that Jesus was alone with the woman caught in adultery when he told her to avoid this sin (v.10)?

“... truth will out.”

Since: May 08

Stratford, Connecticut.

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#42
Nov 17, 2013
 
lides wrote:
<quoted text>
No, they weren't under any definition ...
The dictionary defines frogs and flies as amphibians and insects, i.e., biological, not mineral; a deliberate plague of both would be, in plain English, biological warfare.

And the Exodus was an actual historic event in the story of ancient Isreal.
Rick not in Kansas yet

Salina, KS

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#43
Nov 17, 2013
 

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Joe DeCaro wrote:
Then why didn't you know that Jesus was alone with the woman caught in adultery when he told her to avoid this sin (v.10)?
If it were meant as a message just for her, it wouldn't be in the book, now would it? Never got the hang of being taught in parables did you?

“... truth will out.”

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#44
Nov 18, 2013
 
Rick not in Kansas yet wrote:
<quoted text>If it were meant as a message just for her ...
The message for you was in post #1 for all to see.
Here it is again:

"'Jesus was always preaching compassion and acceptance for the most marginalized in his time, those pushed to the edges of society by the condemnation of secular and religious authorities,' writes Robinson, the Episcopal Church’s first openly gay bishop ..."

I wonder if the openly gay bishop ever read John's Gospel where Jesus saves a woman caught in the act of adultery from being stoned to death by an angry mob?

After He pardons her, Jesus then tells her to "go and sin no more" (John 8:11).

Would His words have been any different for a gay caught in the act of sodomy considering the penalty for both homosexuality and adultery was death by stoning?
Rick not in Kansas yet

Salina, KS

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#45
Nov 18, 2013
 
Joe DeCaro wrote:
The message for you was in post #1 for all to see.
You're repeating yourself without any trace of the additional knowledge and insight that has been passed on to you since the first time you provided only part of the story. What an incredibly sad statement to make about yourself.

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Since: Jan 08

Defiance, Ohio

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#46
Nov 18, 2013
 
Joe DeCaro wrote:
The dictionary defines frogs and flies as amphibians and insects, i.e., biological, not mineral; a deliberate plague of both would be, in plain English, biological warfare.
And the Exodus was an actual historic event in the story of ancient Isreal.
AND, you're done.

Joe, it was a stupid argument. Frogs are not biological weapons. The usage was by God (if one believes as you do, however even that is a matter of faith). And last, but not least, Jesus did address murder, which would also cover biological weapons, which once again, frogs, flies, and insects are not.

Thank you, it has been a joy watching you attempt to rationalize your way out of a stupid corner you argued yourself into.

Do you have a big boy argument to put forth?

“... truth will out.”

Since: May 08

Stratford, Connecticut.

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#47
Nov 18, 2013
 
Rick not in Kansas yet wrote:
<quoted text>
You're repeating yourself ...
... and you're still avoiding the question I posed in post #1.

But if you can't man-up to anwer it, why even post here?

BTW, what happened to your registration, Ricky?
lides wrote:
<quoted text>
AND, you're done ...
Stick that fork in yourself; the ancient Romans used catapults to deliver dead animals into enemy fortresses that spread disease and death among the captive population.

The bacteria from thousands of decomposing amphibians spread by another plague of flies does the same job, genius.
Rick not in Kansas yet

Salina, KS

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#48
Nov 18, 2013
 
Joe DeCaro wrote:
... and you're still avoiding the question I posed in post #1.
But if you can't man-up to anwer it, why even post here?
BTW, what happened to your registration, Ricky?
Answered your question several times now, sometimes it helps if you actually read the responses you are replying to. The go forth and sin no more message was said to ALL sinners, regardless of their sin. How is that so difficult to understand? Then again, you are the one forgetting that it only those without sin should be packing rocks. Nothing wrong with my account, that I'm aware of anyways. Been on vacation, just got back to the US this last week, still haven't gotten home, I should be back to being Rick in Kansas early next week.

“... truth will out.”

Since: May 08

Stratford, Connecticut.

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#49
Nov 19, 2013
 
Rick not in Kansas yet wrote:
<quoted text>Answered your question several times now ...
No, you haven't once addressed the following question:

Would His words have been any different for a gay caught in the act of sodomy considering the penalty for both homosexuality and adultery was death by stoning?

So, would Jesus have told you to "go and sin no more" or not, Ricky?
Rick not in Kansas yet

Salina, KS

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#50
Nov 19, 2013
 
Joe DeCaro wrote:
No, you haven't once addressed the following question:
Would His words have been any different for a gay caught in the act of sodomy considering the penalty for both homosexuality and adultery was death by stoning?
So, would Jesus have told you to "go and sin no more" or not, Ricky?
One more time, the answer to your question is the same as it was the first time you asked it and every subsequent occasion. The sin referred to by Jesus is fill in the blank, what that sin may or may not be, between the sinner and God. Unless you are one or the other, what's being discussed, none of your business. If you want to pray that God finds "sodomy" as sinful as you have chosen to, that's between you and Him, it's really none of our business.

PS He would have told YOU the exact same thing when you broke the Sabbath, the penalty for which would be stoning. The standard He laid down on that one, you come nowhere close to meeting.

“... truth will out.”

Since: May 08

Stratford, Connecticut.

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#51
Nov 19, 2013
 
Rick not in Kansas yet wrote:
<quoted text>One more time, the answer to your question is the same as it was the first time you asked it and every subsequent occasion. The sin referred to by Jesus is fill in the blank, what that sin may or may not be, between the sinner and God. Unless you are one or the other, what's being discussed, none of your business. If you want to pray that God finds "sodomy" as sinful as you have chosen to ...
I didn't choose the penalty for both sodomy and adultery to be death by stoning, Ricky, or did you think I was the author of Leviticus?

And I doubt Jesus' words would have been any different for a gay caught in the act of sodomy as for a woman caught in adultery: go and sin no more.
Rick not in Kansas yet

Salina, KS

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#52
Nov 19, 2013
 
His words would be no different if the sin had been violating His sabbath or being a judgmental ass. Go forth and sin no more. Are you listening?

Since: Aug 09

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#53
Nov 20, 2013
 
Joe DeCaro wrote:
<quoted text>
I didn't choose the penalty for both sodomy and adultery to be death by stoning, Ricky, or did you think I was the author of Leviticus?
And I doubt Jesus' words would have been any different for a gay caught in the act of sodomy as for a woman caught in adultery: go and sin no more.
It is interesting. You bring up a couple of points that bear discussion.

1.) You readily suggest that Jesus must have said things about subjects that are not committed to script in the Bible.

Bp. Eugene Robinson agrees with you. I certainly do agree, also.

2.) You put distance between your own beliefs and the "author of Leviticus." I guess you do this, and I believe rightly so, because tribal morality and the penalties for what was understood then to be tribal immorality and perceived transgressions at the personal level have subsequently been found to be inappropriate and more than excessive, even though they were the accepted practice a long time ago.

Sin is perceived or not perceived or determined to no longer be "sin" according to many factors, not the least of which are communally and traditionally developed in a context of temporal and moral beliefs, tribal, cultural and societal. As a result, penalties, tribal and cultural and societal, for perceived moral transgressions do change over time as human behavior is better understood.

3.) In the "Ten Commandments," there is a very specific, primary proscription for adultery. The Law then provides for an offender to be stoned to death.

But, nothing in these primary Commandments is written and said about specific acts of sexuality.

However, in the ordinances following, sex with an animal is forbidden and punishable by death.(Exodus 22:19)

Further definition to inappropriate behaviors are given in The Priest's Manual, the Book of Leviticus, which is an extension of the Exodus Pentateuch, along with the Holiness Code and other ancient traditions and tribal, moral codes.

But, as you have pointed out, Jesus effectively put away stoning deaths for perceived "sin" and more specifically the offense of adultery. Why? Trust, honor and property are put at risk in the act, potentially leading to unresolvable conflict and corruption of family and inheritance within the tribe. But, such acts are forgivable, both subjectively and objectively, not just because of the motivations of the offending duo (it takes two to tango), if the corrupting behavior is put away. Jesus' determination was just as much a consideration of blame as it was a proscription of offensive behavior.

This is completely different from the ramifications of the development of an exclusive homoerotic pair-bond between two who commit to care of and for each other.

Bp. Robinson is correct to point out the inconsistencies in making judgments about the performance of people in the work place based upon their personal, private sex lives, especially if the individual conducts him or herself honorably and diligently in public (yet, while in an exclusively committed, same-sex relationship in private).

His point is consistent with the Teachings of Jesus, even though, as you have pointed out, nothing is written as quotable to Jesus that would be to the contrary.

*****

Bp. Robinson makes another, critical point to the development of our views and lawful, moral, "tribal" policies here in America. That is, that Jesus Christ is present, existent; having Being now.

Rev. Ken

“... truth will out.”

Since: May 08

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#54
Nov 20, 2013
 

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Rick not in Kansas yet wrote:
His words would be no different if the sin had been violating His sabbath or being a judgmental ass ...
Ricky, if you were just an ass, there would be no death penalty for you in either testament, so go forth and troll no more.

Are you listening?

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Since: Jan 08

Defiance, Ohio

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#55
Nov 20, 2013
 

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Joe DeCaro wrote:
Stick that fork in yourself; the ancient Romans used catapults to deliver dead animals into enemy fortresses that spread disease and death among the captive population.
The bacteria from thousands of decomposing amphibians spread by another plague of flies does the same job, genius.
Was the end result targeted killing, aka murder? If so, Jesus addressed that, which was your initial point. Congratulations, and keep rationalizing, you are merely underscoring how weak your argument really was.

Tell us more about how God should reprimand God.
Rick not in Kansas yet

Salina, KS

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#56
Nov 20, 2013
 

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Joe DeCaro wrote:
Ricky, if you were just an ass, there would be no death penalty for you in either testament, so go forth and troll no more.
Are you listening?
Sweetie, you broke the Sabbath, remember? Do you remember what the penalty for that is? Being a judgmental ass carries a penalty too you know, it's not my fault you don't know it.

“... truth will out.”

Since: May 08

Stratford, Connecticut.

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#57
Nov 21, 2013
 
lides wrote:
<quoted text>
Was the end result targeted killing ...
Biological warfare is simply a means to an end, not the end itself, or are you so clueless that you can't tell the difference?
Rick not in Kansas yet wrote:
<quoted text>Sweetie, you broke the Sabbath, remember?...
Countering your foolish arguments isn't work, Ricky: it's just child's play, and there's no prohibition for enjoying myself at your expense on any day of the week, even Sundays.

“No Headline available”

Since: Jan 08

Defiance, Ohio

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#58
Nov 21, 2013
 
Joe DeCaro wrote:
Biological warfare is simply a means to an end, not the end itself, or are you so clueless that you can't tell the difference?
That end was what, exactly?
Rick not in Kansas yet

Salina, KS

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#59
Nov 21, 2013
 

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Joe DeCaro wrote:
Countering your foolish arguments isn't work, Ricky: it's just child's play, and there's no prohibition for enjoying myself at your expense on any day of the week, even Sundays.
Joey, while you're 'amusing' yourself, you're causing others to have to work by maintaining the website on the Sabbath. Didn't you bother to read the rules? You broke 'em. Now that you know what you did was wrong, go forth and commit the sin no more. Just like Jesus said.

“... truth will out.”

Since: May 08

Stratford, Connecticut.

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#60
Nov 22, 2013
 
lides wrote:
<quoted text>
That end was what, exactly?
Did you forget, or do have the short term memory of a goldfish?

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