Supreme Court Same-Sex Ruling Creates Quandary for Pastors.

Jun 26, 2013 Full story: news.yahoo.com 53
Yahoo News asked Americans who are tangibly affected by the Supreme Court's same-sex marriage decisions to react to Wednesday's rulings. Here's one perspective.

By J. Robert Hanson

I am at a crossroad: Do I preach on my faith's traditional definition of marriage or do I conform to the modern evolution mandated through the courts?

I'm pressed to choose between love for my faith and my love for my country -- a simple, but difficult choice. California's Proposition 8 and the federal DOMA law are two such examples. As late as 2008, the majority of Americans agreed with these measures. However, according to Gallup, that support has eroded. Ideologists have successfully changed the minds of many Americans. Apparently, the Supreme Court has chosen to agree.

In fact, the issue can get even more complicated in the future. Since the courts have chosen to define a same-sex union as marriage, there's been some question in California as to whether public opposition from the pulpit is considered to be "hate speech," according to SB 1234, legislation passed 2004.

If a pastor cannot legally voice his concerns on a moral subject, it makes it all the more difficult for ministers to win back the hearts of the populace. I love this country. I love my faith. I relish the principles of freedom Americans share. I also love the fact we can peacefully coexist in an environment of individualism. Presenting ideas and ideologies, winning each other to opposing views is what freedom is all about.

Freedom of speech has the potential of being lost in the land of equality.

And the quandary for pastors becomes greater in regard to speaking on the convictions of their faith. The Supreme Court's ruling favoring same-sex marriage forces pastors like me to make a disagreeable choice: love of faith or love of country? Full Story
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disgusted american

Philadelphia, PA

#1 Jun 26, 2013
u can keep your voodoo church discriminating - no one will make you marry anyone you dont want too - JUST LIKE B4..DON'T be a DRAMA QUEEN!
Jerome Stueart

Edmonton, Canada

#2 Jun 26, 2013
Pastor, I hear you. And we are not asking that you give up your rights to free speech. Only recognize what your "beliefs" do to further entrench an errant reading of God's love in your people. Other religious denominations have changed their beliefs upon further scriptural examination. And kept their faith. If having your beliefs means spreading hate to me, you'll find opposition to your beliefs will grow. As if you were preaching that owning slaves was good--as Ministers used to do in the US. You don't hear that anymore do you?

“saved From jesus”

Since: Jul 11

Location hidden

#3 Jun 26, 2013
The supreme courts has "chosen" to agree with changing opinions? Wrong pastor, they ruled according to the Constitution.

Freedom of speech has the potential for being lost in the land of equality? WTF?
The Fabulous Rainbow Kid

Alpharetta, GA

#4 Jun 26, 2013
Preach from the pre-1946 Authorized King James Bible
.
Gay people aren't in it
.
And GOD himself made sure King James's name is embossed on the cover in Gold
http://etb-history-theology.blogspot.com/2012...

“Equality for ALL”

Since: Jul 10

Massachusetts

#5 Jun 26, 2013
To the pastor. You can continue to preach from your pulpit as you see fit. You can continue to marry (or not marry) any couple that meets your religious definition of marriage.[In the 9+ years of civil marriage equality in Massachusetts, the Catholic church has married 0, zero, same-sex couples.] As John Roberts ruled in the Prop8 case, the proponents could show no harm done to them or their marriages.

You don't like the state's definition of civil marriage. Here's a solution. Stop performing civil marriages. You are not required to civilly marry any couple. Marry your couples within your religious rites and leave the civil action to the state and the justices of the peace. If as you say, your congregants agree with you, they should not want to participate in the evil state institution.

No court would ever charge you for preaching from your pulpit to your congregation. That's Freedom of Religion. But your religious right doesn't allow you to spout your beliefs to the rest of us.

“God made in the image of man”

Since: May 07

Sausalito, CA

#6 Jun 26, 2013
This preacher is making more of an issue out of it than it needs to be, and the quandery is certainly nothing new.

His own leader, Jesus, is reported to have had a very straightforward answer: Handing a Roman coin to his listener, he asked: "Whose head is on it?" ... "Caesar's." "Well then, pay to Caesar what is Caesar's, but to God what is God's." It's very clear: decide whether you're dealing with a secular or a religious matter.

If you're in church preaching about sin, freedom of speech allows you to include homosexuality in that discussion (if it happens to be one of your particular church's tenets). If, however, you turn that sermon into a political rant, you are trying to give to God what belongs to Caesar. Caesar won't necessarily prosecute you for that, but who knows if God may disapprove?:))

If, on the other hand ... you advocate from the pulpit that parishioners should take it upon themselves to assault and kill gays for their 'sin', you have now taken unto YOURSELF both what belongs to God and to Caesar (judgment) and both of them have every right to come down on you like a ton of bricks. That IS hate speech, any way you look at it and even God supposedly condemns hate speech against another human!

“God made in the image of man”

Since: May 07

Sausalito, CA

#7 Jun 26, 2013
Even the lawyer Saul of Tarsus, who as the 'Apostle Paul' became the de facto founder of christendom, endorsed this same respect for the secular authorities:

(Romans 13:1-4, NW): "Let every soul be in subjection to the superior authorities, for there is no authority except by God. Therefore he who opposes the authority has taken a stand against the arrangement of God; those who have taken a stand against it will receive judgment to themselves. For those ruling are an object of fear, not to the good deed, but to the bad. Do you, then, want to have no fear of the authority? Keep doing good, and you will have praise from it; for it is God's minister to you for your good. But if you are doing what is bad, be in fear: for it is not without purpose that it bears the sword; for it is God's minister, an avenger to express wrath upon the one practicing what is bad."

“God made in the image of man”

Since: May 07

Sausalito, CA

#8 Jun 26, 2013
(By way of explanation, I am quoting a passage from the christians' own religious book back to them. I do not personally believe that 'there is no authority except by God.')
BS Detector

La Puente, CA

#9 Jun 26, 2013
DaveinMass wrote:
No court would ever charge you for preaching from your pulpit to your congregation. That's Freedom of Religion. But your religious right doesn't allow you to spout your beliefs to the rest of us.
Really? Doesn't that same First Amendment protect his freedom of speech, even if you (and/or everybody else) disagree with the content of that speech?
The Fabulous Rainbow Kid

Alpharetta, GA

#10 Jun 26, 2013
BS Detector wrote:
<quoted text> Really? Doesn't that same First Amendment protect his freedom of speech, even if you (and/or everybody else) disagree with the content of that speech?
No
.
Your religious freedom ends where my civil rights begins
.
A good place to draw the line is at the church's front door
BS Detector

La Puente, CA

#11 Jun 26, 2013
The Fabulous Rainbow Kid wrote:
<quoted text>
No
.
Your religious freedom ends where my civil rights begins
.
A good place to draw the line is at the church's front door
Every lawyer or judge, conservative or liberal, would likely disagree with you. The First Amendment trumps your bigotry.

P.S. I'm a heathen. No religion here. So let's recap, you're wrong all the way around.

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#12 Jun 26, 2013
Mr. Hanson,

Your Government must serve EQUALLY all of it's Citizens regardless of their religious beliefs.

CIVIL Marriage was enacted for all those who do not wish a sectarian religious marriage.

Preach however you wish to your congregations about how they should choose for themselves, but ALSO preach that they must respect others who do not share their choices.

CIVIL Marriage belongs to "Caesar", so "render unto Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and render unto God the things that are God's" i.e. YOURSELVES. You cannot "render" others unto God. Only they can render themselves.

The message of Yeshua is that we do not sacrifice others, not even animals. That wouldn't be YOUR sacrifice at all, but the unwilling "sacrifice" of the one whose life you spilled. He taught us that the only sacrifice we can truly give, the ONLY sacrifice acceptable, is OURSELVES. Further, that we are to sacrifice ourselves for each other; not as a duty, not as an obedience, but out of sincere and heartfelt love for the PERSON.

Anything else is worthless.
The Fabulous Rainbow Kid

Alpharetta, GA

#13 Jun 26, 2013
BS Detector wrote:
<quoted text> Every lawyer or judge, conservative or liberal, would likely disagree with you. The First Amendment trumps your bigotry.
P.S. I'm a heathen. No religion here. So let's recap, you're wrong all the way around.
If you cannot control your speech; then you cannot control the consequences

“Unconvinced”

Since: Nov 09

Seattle, WA

#14 Jun 26, 2013
Ugh. How dumb.

Dear pastor,

Unless your church ADMINISTERS state and federal marriage benefits, then do WHATEVER YOU WANT.

Sheesh! Why do these people think anyone CARES what they "condone" or "accept"? If you're not in charge of handing out the state-issued rights of marriage to married couples, then you have nothing to worry about!

DNF

“Judge less, Love more”

Since: Apr 07

Born in Newark Ohio

#15 Jun 26, 2013
DaveinMass wrote:
To the pastor. You can continue to preach from your pulpit as you see fit. You can continue to marry (or not marry) any couple that meets your religious definition of marriage.[In the 9+ years of civil marriage equality in Massachusetts, the Catholic church has married 0, zero, same-sex couples.] As John Roberts ruled in the Prop8 case, the proponents could show no harm done to them or their marriages.
You don't like the state's definition of civil marriage. Here's a solution. Stop performing civil marriages. You are not required to civilly marry any couple. Marry your couples within your religious rites and leave the civil action to the state and the justices of the peace. If as you say, your congregants agree with you, they should not want to participate in the evil state institution.
No court would ever charge you for preaching from your pulpit to your congregation. That's Freedom of Religion. But your religious right doesn't allow you to spout your beliefs to the rest of us.
RE: "No court would ever charge you for preaching from your pulpit to your congregation."

James Earl Jones.

"The Vernon Jones Story"
http://www.bing.com/videos/search...

The police ENTERED THE CHURCH to arrest him. Because he said in his sermon "In Alabama it's ok to kill a n****r."

DNF

“Judge less, Love more”

Since: Apr 07

Born in Newark Ohio

#16 Jun 26, 2013
BS Detector wrote:
<quoted text> Really? Doesn't that same First Amendment protect his freedom of speech, even if you (and/or everybody else) disagree with the content of that speech?
Big Red Heart

Golden Lightbulb

Life preserver

And a Groucho and flames

(add another Groucho)

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#17 Jun 26, 2013

DNF

“Judge less, Love more”

Since: Apr 07

Born in Newark Ohio

#18 Jun 26, 2013
The Fabulous Rainbow Kid wrote:
<quoted text>
If you cannot control your speech; then you cannot control the consequences
Thew police entered this church as the service was ending.

This happened before Martin, before Malcolm, before Harvey or Clinton or Bush or Obama.

This is a REAL FEAR for them.

The Vernon Jones Story"

http://www.bing.com/videos/search...

DNF

“Judge less, Love more”

Since: Apr 07

Born in Newark Ohio

#19 Jun 26, 2013
The Fabulous Rainbow Kid wrote:
<quoted text>
No
.
Your religious freedom ends where my civil rights begins
.
A good place to draw the line is at the church's front door
Sorry to spam but check out the movie.

They entered the church to arrest him as he spoke.

True story.

This is a real fear especially if a State is FOOLISH enough to pass "Hate Speech" laws.

Speech has consequences yes. But we must INSIST those consequences are fair and balanced for all sides.

DNF

“Judge less, Love more”

Since: Apr 07

Born in Newark Ohio

#20 Jun 26, 2013
Off topic alert. I was REALLY hoping my good ole buddy, "dollarbill" and his brother from another mother, "disciple" had showed up by now.

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