Episcopal church weighs same-sex blessing

Oct 7, 2012 Full story: Green Bay Press-Gazette 114

The U.S. Episcopal Church is paving its way as the first major religious denomination in the country to bless same-sex relationships ...

Full Story

“... truth will out.”

Since: May 08

Stratford, Connecticut.

#22 Oct 13, 2012
MiddleWay wrote:
The report added that that situational factors and opportunity to abuse played a significant role in the onset and continuation of abusive acts ...
Situational factors?

According to the Catholic News Service, the bishops’ National Review Board on the causes of the current sex scandal revealed that the majority of young victims abused by our clergy were males, signifying that the church crisis was indeed characterized by homosexual behavior.

Since: Aug 09

Location hidden

#23 Oct 14, 2012
Joe DeCaro wrote:
<quoted text>
Situational factors?
According to the Catholic News Service, the bishops’ National Review Board on the causes of the current sex scandal revealed that the majority of young victims abused by our clergy were males, signifying that the church crisis was indeed characterized by homosexual behavior.
No. The present RCC Church crisis is based upon an unwillingness to openly admit and recognize that its celibate orders have cultivated an internal culture of pedophiles.

The fact that they are most generally homosexual is the result of the patristic nature of the RCC. Are there lesbians among the nuns? You bet there are.

Are there sincerely celibate heterosexual men and women in the Catholic Orders? Most certainly there are. Even a majority. But, it is not a smart policy to deny human nature. It is much more intelligent to work with it.

Homosexuality is not the problem. Homosexuality, for the homosexual, is a fact of life. Forcing the homosexual to deny him or herself is a deliberately concocted recipe for the compromise of personal integrity.

The institutionalized denial of personal integrity is an institutionalized sickness.

Rev. Ken

Rev. Ken

“... truth will out.”

Since: May 08

Stratford, Connecticut.

#24 Oct 14, 2012
RevKen wrote:
<quoted text>
No. The present RCC Church crisis is based upon an unwillingness to openly admit and recognize that its celibate orders have cultivated an internal culture of pedophiles ...
No, it's an internal culture of gays, some from "gay" seminaries; Pope Benedict and others are all too willing to call these priests pedophiles, and for the record, the bishops National Review Board are all Catholic clerics.

“The Kingdom of God Begins NOW!”

Since: May 07

The Mountain Empire

#25 Oct 14, 2012
Joe DeCaro wrote:
<quoted text>
No, it's an internal culture of gays, some from "gay" seminaries; Pope Benedict and others are all too willing to call these priests pedophiles, and for the record, the bishops National Review Board are all Catholic clerics.
Now you have gay seminaries?

LMAO!

Since: Aug 09

Location hidden

#26 Oct 14, 2012
MiddleWay wrote:
<quoted text>
Now you have gay seminaries?
LMAO!
You know, I wonder what the HECK is going on in a lot of people's minds!

When a seemingly intelligent guy like Joe DeCaro posts on these threads for a period of years without getting any obvious adaptive understanding of these issues, I seriously have to wonder what is missing in their framework of realization. Something is actually missing. It's like there is a key circuit down.

In the case of the Roman Catholic Church hierarchy, I can understand how and why they do what they are doing. They consider themselves separate from the people they minister to. They do not see themselves as their own parishioners. So, to preserve their form, they basically do and say, even force themselves to think, whatever it takes to maintain a level of control. To this end, they deny their self-created, internalized culture of homosexuality and literally blame the homosexuals for the Church's problems. They don't know how to identify the resident pedophile without wrecking the institutional form. Now, they are trying to put the genie back in the bottle.

Nevertheless, the distinction has to be made. The genie cannot be put back. Their own parishioners know this. Ask any good Catholic if he or she knows that many of their clergy are gay. They will tell you.

But as for our resident denial-driven RCCer, JDC, something, somewhere, sometime has GOT to succeed in turning the lights on for this fellow.

Rev. Ken

Since: Aug 09

Location hidden

#27 Oct 14, 2012
Joe DeCaro wrote:
<quoted text>
No, it's an internal culture of gays, some from "gay" seminaries; Pope Benedict and others are all too willing to call these priests pedophiles, and for the record, the bishops National Review Board are all Catholic clerics.
So, what are you saying here, Joe?

When you write that "Pope Benedict and others are all too willing to call these priests pedophiles,..." are you saying that there is a difference between the gay person and the pedophile (though obviously, a person can be both gay and a pedophile)?

And, I have to laugh along with MiddleWay about your reference to "gay" seminaries. Obviously, the RCC has such a problem that, if it did not result in such monstrous and heinous crimes against children, the whole thing would be an hilariously funny joke.

As for the National Review Board, it is just another attempt at trying to put a legitimate face upon keeping the foxes in charge of guarding the chicken coop. They are doing this to try to control the message and they cannot imagine allowing any outside check or overview of their methodologies. Pitiful. All they can manage to do is to try to cover-up.

No wonder Martin Luther regarded the Office of the Pope to be the seat of the Anti-Christ.

Rev. Ken

Since: Mar 07

United States

#28 Oct 14, 2012
RevKen wrote:
<quoted text>
So, what are you saying here, Joe?
When you write that "Pope Benedict and others are all too willing to call these priests pedophiles,..." are you saying that there is a difference between the gay person and the pedophile (though obviously, a person can be both gay and a pedophile)?
And, I have to laugh along with MiddleWay about your reference to "gay" seminaries. Obviously, the RCC has such a problem that, if it did not result in such monstrous and heinous crimes against children, the whole thing would be an hilariously funny joke.
As for the National Review Board, it is just another attempt at trying to put a legitimate face upon keeping the foxes in charge of guarding the chicken coop. They are doing this to try to control the message and they cannot imagine allowing any outside check or overview of their methodologies. Pitiful. All they can manage to do is to try to cover-up.
No wonder Martin Luther regarded the Office of the Pope to be the seat of the Anti-Christ.
Rev. Ken
It seems so simple, really.

They actively recruit ONLY men who are willing to give up some of the strongest drives in nature. ONLY men who can live without women, or even family.

And then they wonder why the percentage of gay men in their orders are high.

And they wonder why they attract also large numbers of confused, unhealthy, emotionally and sexually stunted men, many of who have been groomed to believe their lack of a desire to have sex with or marry a woman is really a calling from God, and not something else entirely.

Is it any wonder that so many of them have fractured under that pressure?

The very institution seems to call for it.

“... truth will out.”

Since: May 08

Stratford, Connecticut.

#29 Oct 14, 2012
RevKen wrote:
And, I have to laugh along with MiddleWay about your reference to "gay" seminaries ...
Joe Biden likes to laugh too, but the National Review Board report found that large numbers of homosexual candidates actually discouraged heterosexuals from entering the priesthood, resulting in the formation of homosexual subcultures in some seminaries that have been characterized as "gay".

Since: Aug 09

Location hidden

#30 Oct 14, 2012
Joe DeCaro wrote:
<quoted text>
Weren't all the victims legally minors to rule out any possibility of consensual sex?
That is not an answer to the question.

You pointed out that a high percentage of the RCC clergy that are pedophiles are homosexuals.

I asked you what percentage of the RCC clergy homosexuals are pedophiles.

Perhaps you cannot cite that statistic. Mox nix.

We all know that most heterosexuals are not pedophiles. We all know that most homosexuals are not pedophiles. Sexual orientation and pedophilism are simply not the same thing.

Rev. Ken

Rev. Ken

Since: Aug 09

Location hidden

#31 Oct 14, 2012
Joe DeCaro wrote:
<quoted text>
Joe Biden likes to laugh too, but the National Review Board report found that large numbers of homosexual candidates actually discouraged heterosexuals from entering the priesthood, resulting in the formation of homosexual subcultures in some seminaries that have been characterized as "gay".
Do you not think this is funny? I'm telling you, this is funny.

I am not afraid of homosexuals.

You are not addressing the RCC problem. It is a problem of pedophilism and attempts by the RCC hierarchy to cover it up.

What the RCC is doing presently, is attempting to force homosexuality among its clergy back into the closet, while simultaneously blaming the homosexuality it has allowed to prosper for another problem - pedophilism.

Since: Aug 09

Location hidden

#32 Oct 14, 2012
Quest wrote:
<quoted text>
It seems so simple, really.
They actively recruit ONLY men who are willing to give up some of the strongest drives in nature. ONLY men who can live without women, or even family.
And then they wonder why the percentage of gay men in their orders are high.
And they wonder why they attract also large numbers of confused, unhealthy, emotionally and sexually stunted men, many of who have been groomed to believe their lack of a desire to have sex with or marry a woman is really a calling from God, and not something else entirely.
Is it any wonder that so many of them have fractured under that pressure?
The very institution seems to call for it.
Yep.

Since: Aug 09

Location hidden

#33 Oct 14, 2012
Joe,

Please answer my post #27 above.

“... truth will out.”

Since: May 08

Stratford, Connecticut.

#34 Oct 15, 2012
RevKen wrote:
<quoted text>
Well,.... OK. I can believe that.
Now let's look at the statistic that you have NOT put forth, because this is just as important and germaine to the conversation as the statistic that you have cited.
re the last John Jay Study, what percentage of the RCC gay priests were pedophiles?
As I already posted (#21), since all the priestly victims were legally minors, ALL the priestly offenders were legally pedophiles.

“The Kingdom of God Begins NOW!”

Since: May 07

The Mountain Empire

#35 Oct 15, 2012
RevKen wrote:
<quoted text>
You know, I wonder what the HECK is going on in a lot of people's minds!
When a seemingly intelligent guy like Joe DeCaro posts on these threads for a period of years without getting any obvious adaptive understanding of these issues, I seriously have to wonder what is missing in their framework of realization. Something is actually missing. It's like there is a key circuit down.
In the case of the Roman Catholic Church hierarchy, I can understand how and why they do what they are doing. They consider themselves separate from the people they minister to. They do not see themselves as their own parishioners. So, to preserve their form, they basically do and say, even force themselves to think, whatever it takes to maintain a level of control. To this end, they deny their self-created, internalized culture of homosexuality and literally blame the homosexuals for the Church's problems. They don't know how to identify the resident pedophile without wrecking the institutional form. Now, they are trying to put the genie back in the bottle.
Nevertheless, the distinction has to be made. The genie cannot be put back. Their own parishioners know this. Ask any good Catholic if he or she knows that many of their clergy are gay. They will tell you.
But as for our resident denial-driven RCCer, JDC, something, somewhere, sometime has GOT to succeed in turning the lights on for this fellow.
Rev. Ken
You'd hope so, pray so, think so but our pal joie is one special remedial individual.

His pride and arrogance will be the 'death' of him yet....

Since: Oct 12

Location hidden

#36 Oct 15, 2012
If the question is about the correlation between sexual orientation and pedophilia, I think joe is just speaking out of his ass.

Rape and pedophilia are, in a vast majority of cases, driven by the desire for power and control over another individual. It very rarely concerns sexual attraction. High school psychology.

“... truth will out.”

Since: May 08

Stratford, Connecticut.

#37 Oct 15, 2012
AscendedFalmer wrote:
If the question is about the correlation between sexual orientation and pedophilia ...
According to the Catholic News Service, a report by the bishops’ National Review Board on the causes of the RCC sex scandal revealed that the majority of young victims abused by Catholic clergy were males, signifying that the church crisis was characterized by homosexual behavior.

The bishops’ report was based on the (first) John Jay study on the Catholic clerical abuse of minors. The study determined that 81 percent of those abused by priests were male: 22 percent under the age of 11; 51 percent from 11-14 years old, and the remaining 27 percent were ages 15-17.

In the second study, the percent of males abused by Catholic clergy increased to 90.

Since: Aug 09

Location hidden

#38 Oct 16, 2012
Joe DeCaro wrote:
<quoted text>
As I already posted (#21), since all the priestly victims were legally minors, ALL the priestly offenders were legally pedophiles.
OK. Now, I can agree with that. But, I still point out that this is not a matter of legality or age and date defined infractions. It is a matter of the destruction of innocence and the taking of selfish pleasure from the act of sexually overwhelming a defenseless child with the result of a crater of deep guilt and shame.

It is a heinous spiritual crime.

But, your #21 answer is not an answer to what I am asking.

I am asking about the percentage of RCC clergy who ARE homosexuals but who are NOT pedophiles.

What is THIS percentage?

“... truth will out.”

Since: May 08

Stratford, Connecticut.

#39 Oct 16, 2012
RevKen wrote:
... I am asking about the percentage of RCC clergy who ARE homosexuals but who are NOT pedophiles.
What is THIS percentage?
The study only dealt with RCC clergy who were practicing sexual predators; there is no data on the demographics of its entire clergy.

Besides, how can anyone accurately determine what priest is, or isn't gay if they are all celibate?

Since: Oct 12

Location hidden

#40 Oct 16, 2012
Joe DeCaro wrote:
<quoted text>According to the Catholic News Service, a report by the bishopsÂ’ National Review Board on the causes of the RCC sex scandal revealed that the majority of young victims abused by Catholic clergy were males, signifying that the church crisis was characterized by homosexual behavior.

The bishopsÂ’ report was based on the (first) John Jay study on the Catholic clerical abuse of minors. The study determined that 81 percent of those abused by priests were male: 22 percent under the age of 11; 51 percent from 11-14 years old, and the remaining 27 percent were ages 15-17.

In the second study, the percent of males abused by Catholic clergy increased to 90.
That doesn't change the fact that rape an pedophilia are, in a vast majority of cases, driven by desire for power and control. Sexual orientation has nothing to do with it.

Since: Oct 12

Location hidden

#41 Oct 16, 2012
Joe DeCaro wrote:
<quoted text>According to the Catholic News Service, a report by the bishopsÂ’ National Review Board on the causes of the RCC sex scandal revealed that the majority of young victims abused by Catholic clergy were males, signifying that the church crisis was characterized by homosexual behavior.

The bishopsÂ’ report was based on the (first) John Jay study on the Catholic clerical abuse of minors. The study determined that 81 percent of those abused by priests were male: 22 percent under the age of 11; 51 percent from 11-14 years old, and the remaining 27 percent were ages 15-17.

In the second study, the percent of males abused by Catholic clergy increased to 90.
Just because someone engages in homosexual behavior, it does not make them homosexual.

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