Gay marriage

Gay marriage

There are 61395 comments on the Los Angeles Times story from Mar 28, 2013, titled Gay marriage. In it, Los Angeles Times reports that:

The U.S. Supreme Court is considering two controversial cases involving whether same-sex couples have a constitutional right to marry: Proposition 8, California's 2008 ban on gay marriage, and the Defense of Marriage Act, which since 1996 has defined marriage for federal purposes as a union between a man and a woman.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Los Angeles Times.

“No Headline available”

Since: Jan 08

Defiance, Ohio

#4278 Jun 25, 2013
Brian_G wrote:
"In fact, record of the payment was only uncovered Friday when the pro-gay rights Human Rights Campaign was sent a private IRS filing from NOM via a whistleblower. The Human Rights Campaign shared the filing with The Huffington Post."
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/30/mitt...
You do realize that this undermines your entire argument, don't you sparky?

HRC already reported the issue using the FEC filing last year. http://www.hrc.org/blog/entry/one-of-noms-top...

You keep claiming that this information was attained through IRS misconduct, but this article states it was released by a whistle blower.

I didn't think it was possible for you to look any dumber. It's funny when you undermine your own argument. Congratulations. Well played.

“No Headline available”

Since: Jan 08

Defiance, Ohio

#4279 Jun 25, 2013
Brian_G wrote:
Was it a conspiracy involving the White House, as lides suggests? I don't think that matters, first justice by prosecuting the guilty, then we can get the defense's stories.
I don't blame Obama, I blame liberalism.
You are an idiot. You ahve never substantiated your claims of wrongdoing, and you frequently air your ignorance of what forms are confidential in the first place. NOM's very mission statement proves that they, in fact, are a political organization, and as such their form 990 Schedule B is public information. What is more, even if it weren't, you ahve yet to establish that the information was leaked by the IRS, and not by an appalled NOM staffer. NOM did not report this income on their filings, which is itself criminal.

http://thinkprogress.org/tag/human-rights-cam...
Hatch Parrots Anti-Gay NOM’s Self-Victimizing Talking Points
By Zack Ford on May 9, 2012 at 4:30 pm

"Sen. Orrin Hatch (R-UT) has the back of the National Organization for Marriage. In a letter to IRS Commissioner Doglas H. Shulman this week, he called for an investigation into the leak of NOM’s 2008 Schedule B, which revealed some of the anti-equality group’s top donors, including Mitt Romney. Hatch’s letter parrots the same conspiracy-mongering rhetoric that NOM has been pushing:

The public 2009 and 2010 forms do not include confidential donor information. Moreover, unlike the 2009 and 2010 public 990s, the 2008 Schedule B published by HRC and Huffington Post is a PDF document that appears to have been deliberately altered in a manner to obscure information that would identify its origins with the IRS. First, the 2008 Schedule B appears to have been cropped in order to hide a stamp appearing across the top of each page that states,“THIS IS A COPY OF A LIVE RETURN FROM SMIP. OFFICIAL USE ONLY.” Second, a white rectangle appears diagonally across the middle of each page of the document at issue — a redaction that hides a number that appears to have been generated by the IRS.

Blogger David Cary Hart has already debunked NOM’s “proof” that the documents had to have originated from the IRS. http://www.slowlyboiledfrog.com/2012/04/nomnu... When the Human Rights Campaign and Huffington Post originally reported on the leak, they attributed the document to a whistleblower within NOM. Because it seems that Romney’s contribution was not properly disclosed, it’s likely that NOM’s cries for an investigation are an attempt to distract attention from their potential lawbreaking. http://thinkprogress.org/lgbt/2012/04/05/4591...

Hatch faces a primary challenge from former Utah state Sen. Dan Liljenquist and has been swinging to the right to appeal to his base. Though polling overwhelmingly favors Hatch, this may explain why he’s endorsed NOM’s attempt to avoid taking responsibility for its misdeeds and its possible whistleblower."

At best, Brian, your arguments are pathetic.
Rational Evolutionist

Saint Paul, MN

#4280 Jun 25, 2013
Thesis: Humans have evolved with certain inborn inhibitions that biologically serve to promote the preservation of the Homo Sapien species, and improve the chance of successful reproduction and the genetic diversity, health, and survivability of their offspring.

For centuries, anthropologists and biologists studying different human tribes, ethnic groups, cultures, and civilizations have observed that humans, and lesser evolved mammals, overwhelmingly avoid certain behaviors regardless of environment, available resources, or social context. The instinctual behaviors include but are not limited to: interspecies mating, intergenerational mating, and close family inbreeding.

The fact that these three behaviors are universally avoided regardless of geography, religion or culture suggests they are restrained by instincts that serve a useful and evolutionary purpose. Consider the scientific rational for the following generally avoided behaviors:

Inter-species mating (interbreeding): Mammals are biologically hardwired to avoid mating with other mammalian species because of anatomic incompatibility and failure to procreate. This instinct protects the continuation of a species by restricting sexual drive to anatomically compatible mating partners of the same mammalian group. Without this biological instinct, mammals would erroneously seek out incompatible species for reproduction, fail to reproduce, and threaten the existence of their own species.

Intergenerational mating: Fertile mammals, including humans, instinctually avoid mating with infertile members of the opposite sex. Physical aging provides a useful biological purpose, which is to signal fertility and help mammals direct their sexual drive to members that offer the best chance of reproductive success. This explains why human males would prefer to copulate with a young woman rather than a post-menopausal woman. Without this hard-wired preference, mammals would erroneously direct their sexual drive towards infertile mates (including the sexually un/under-developed), fail to reproduce, and threaten the existence of their own species.

Close-Family Inbreeding: Mammals, including primates, instinctually avoid mating with close kin (such as the mother, father, and sibling) and instead seek out partners outside of the nuclear family to secure the genetic diversity and health of their offspring. Without this innate instinct, mammals would misdirect their sexual drive to close relatives, produce genetically “defective” offspring, and threaten the adaptability and survival of future generations.

It has been universally observed that humans have developed strong cultural taboos against bestiality (inter-species mating), wide-gap intergenerational mating, and incest. Many religions ascribe meaning to these inborn instincts and interpret them as “God’s laws.”

While many evolutionists don’t ascribe any cultural meaning to these inhibitions, they do recognize their profound biological function and evolutionary purpose.

Considering the reasons provided herein, if you feel an inexplicable repulsion or discomfort toward homosexual copulation- understand that your sentiment is not prejudicial (i.e. homophobic) but biological. Your sentiment is based on a natural procreative instinct that for millions of years has served to ensure humanity’s propagation. Social conditioning and acculturation alone may not be enough to reverse this normal physiological hardwiring.

“No Headline available”

Since: Jan 08

Defiance, Ohio

#4281 Jun 25, 2013
Rational Evolutionist wrote:
Considering the reasons provided herein, if you feel an inexplicable repulsion or discomfort toward homosexual copulation- understand that your sentiment is not prejudicial (i.e. homophobic) but biological.
This was dumb the first time you posted it, it is still dumb now. If you feel an inexplicable repulsion or discomfort toward homosexuality, then you are an irrational bigot, or a closet case.
anonymous

Barberton, OH

#4282 Jun 25, 2013
lides wrote:
<quoted text>
This was dumb the first time you posted it, it is still dumb now. If you feel an inexplicable repulsion or discomfort toward homosexuality, then you are an irrational bigot, or a closet case.
...And the sugar plum fairy is still out waving his wand and labeling people everywhere with his prejudicial labels.

Nope. This discussion hasn't moved towards anything rational yet.
Why didn't you just parse out his post into little bits that you could attack with your usual casual sound bites that completely ignore the continuity of biological strategy?

You know you want to! USE IT! You WILL USE IT!

Since: Mar 11

St. Croix valley

#4283 Jun 25, 2013
anonymous wrote:
<quoted text>...And the sugar plum fairy is still out waving his wand and labeling people everywhere with his prejudicial labels.
Nope. This discussion hasn't moved towards anything rational yet.
Why didn't you just parse out his post into little bits that you could attack with your usual casual sound bites that completely ignore the continuity of biological strategy?
You know you want to! USE IT! You WILL USE IT!
what, exactly, is this continuity of biological strategy assumption you have made up?

“Building Better Worlds”

Since: May 13

Europa

#4284 Jun 25, 2013
anonymous wrote:
<quoted text>...And the sugar plum fairy is still out waving his wand and labeling people everywhere with his prejudicial labels.
Nope. This discussion hasn't moved towards anything rational yet.
Why didn't you just parse out his post into little bits that you could attack with your usual casual sound bites that completely ignore the continuity of biological strategy?
You know you want to! USE IT! You WILL USE IT!
What the heck is "the continuity of biological strategy" ???

“ reality, what a concept”

Since: Nov 07

this one

#4285 Jun 25, 2013
Europa Report wrote:
What the heck is "the continuity of biological strategy" ???
I think he is referring to "continuity strategy", an element of evolution theory. As species evolve, the newer species retain both biological and psychological aspects of the one they are supplanting. But then again, he does seem to be trying pretty darn desperately to rationalize his irrational bigotry. He may not have even the faintest clue as to what he really means.

Since: Mar 07

Location hidden

#4286 Jun 25, 2013
Rational Evolutionist wrote:
Thesis:......
Considering the reasons provided herein, if you feel an inexplicable repulsion or discomfort toward homosexual copulation- understand that your sentiment is not prejudicial .........
Well of course it is. It's a learned behavior. One that many young people are growing up without learning.

Check the polls.

Now, if you are trying to say that straight people don't want to have sex with someone of the same gender because they cannot be sexually attracted to them, and find the idea unappealing, then that's logical, but it applies equally to gay people and and who they are attracted to.

Only a homophobe gets too worked up at the gender someone else can be attracted to. Most people understand themselves well enough not to fret, and gave enough empathy to understand the feelings of others, even if they don't share them.

It's simple, really. And very human.

“Building Better Worlds”

Since: May 13

Europa

#4287 Jun 25, 2013
Rick in Kansas wrote:
<quoted text> I think he is referring to "continuity strategy", an element of evolution theory. As species evolve, the newer species retain both biological and psychological aspects of the one they are supplanting. But then again, he does seem to be trying pretty darn desperately to rationalize his irrational bigotry. He may not have even the faintest clue as to what he really means.
So I should be scared of sparrows because they retain the same biological and psychological aspects of their forebear, T. Rex ?

Since: Mar 11

St. Croix valley

#4288 Jun 25, 2013
Europa Report wrote:
<quoted text>
So I should be scared of sparrows because they retain the same biological and psychological aspects of their forebear, T. Rex ?
i don't think sparrows came from the same species line as T. Rex.

the Tyrannosaurs were one of the last non avian dinosaurs...

“Building Better Worlds”

Since: May 13

Europa

#4289 Jun 25, 2013
woodtick57 wrote:
<quoted text>i don't think sparrows came from the same species line as T. Rex.
the Tyrannosaurs were one of the last non avian dinosaurs...
I dispute that they were non-avian. They were in fact VERY avian.

Since: Mar 11

St. Croix valley

#4290 Jun 25, 2013
Europa Report wrote:
<quoted text>
I dispute that they were non-avian. They were in fact VERY avian.
how so?

“Building Better Worlds”

Since: May 13

Europa

#4291 Jun 25, 2013
woodtick57 wrote:
<quoted text>how so?
there is a lot of evidence that dinosaurs, including T. Rex are the ancestors of modern birds.

For one thing, like birds they are warm-blooded, not cold-blooded like reptiles. Also, like birds, they sported feathers. There's slso DNA & protein evidence.

See here: http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2008/...

“No Headline available”

Since: Jan 08

Defiance, Ohio

#4292 Jun 25, 2013
woodtick57 wrote:
<quoted text>what, exactly, is this continuity of biological strategy assumption you have made up?
I was done responding to anonymous sometime ago. They put forth disingenuous lies, they have no valid legal, logical, or rational argument for their position. And when you respond to their lengthy posts in specific, they whine like a child about "parsing"., is that they can't defend the individual components of their argument. A competent person could.

“Headline already in use”

Since: Dec 08

Home, sweet home.

#4293 Jun 26, 2013
lides believes HRC's cover story, I believe Huffington Post since they published the 2008 Schedule B with IRS processing edits on the web.

Let the FBI investigate.
anonymous

Barberton, OH

#4294 Jun 26, 2013
woodtick57 wrote:
<quoted text>what, exactly, is this continuity of biological strategy assumption you have made up?
The continuity of of biological strategy is something that you'll completely deny no matter the overwhelming evolutionary logic of it.
anonymous

Barberton, OH

#4295 Jun 26, 2013
Europa Report wrote:
<quoted text>
What the heck is "the continuity of biological strategy" ???
The continuity of of biological strategy is something that you'll completely deny no matter the overwhelming evolutionary logic of it.
Gay

Los Angeles, CA

#4296 Jun 26, 2013
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anonymous

Barberton, OH

#4297 Jun 26, 2013
Rick in Kansas wrote:
<quoted text> I think he is referring to "continuity strategy", an element of evolution theory. As species evolve, the newer species retain both biological and psychological aspects of the one they are supplanting. But then again, he does seem to be trying pretty darn desperately to rationalize his irrational bigotry. He may not have even the faintest clue as to what he really means.
No, I'm refering to the continuity of the strategy, not the biology.

DO NOT attempt to speak for me. But, if you want to present a counter argument, feel free to do so. So far, no gay rights supporter is even slightly willing to discuss the possibility that their obsession is a mental disorder, a minor one, but a disorder none the less, and certainly NOT any kind of Libertarian ideal that all citizens need to support as if all reason were based on it.

Feel free to get back to reason. Don't parse a point down to sound bites that you dispose of with rhetoric. You might as well say that if one doesn't support gay marriage then the terrorists win. It's not continuous logic.

You've spent the last week talking about the tax code on this thread, perhaps hoping to "bond". Nobody wants to bond with a gay. They know where that ALWAYS goes.

You're not going to provide continuity of reason. You're going to stick with sound bites and name calling.

USE IT! You WILL USE IT!

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