Gay marriage

Gay marriage

There are 61392 comments on the Los Angeles Times story from Mar 28, 2013, titled Gay marriage. In it, Los Angeles Times reports that:

The U.S. Supreme Court is considering two controversial cases involving whether same-sex couples have a constitutional right to marry: Proposition 8, California's 2008 ban on gay marriage, and the Defense of Marriage Act, which since 1996 has defined marriage for federal purposes as a union between a man and a woman.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Los Angeles Times.

Since: Feb 09

Location hidden

#40264 Apr 2, 2014
Frankie Rizzo wrote:
<quoted text>
Relax. You just don't understand him. Or me. I support your marriage. I believe Rev Alan does too.
Who loves freedom more? You, who limits marriage to two women or me who supports two, three or even more women marrying?(Hubba-Hubba! where's the vaseline jar? Ah good times!
I support each of us making up our own minds about how we wish to live our lives and with who. I support people minding their own business, leaving others alone and taking responsibility for their own lives.

NorCal calls forcing a baker to bake a cake, and preventing three men from marrying each other freedom. It is not freedom but slavery to the government. Slavery is not freedom.

These people would tell us that if slaves didn't like being slaves they had the freedom to kill themselves and end their slavery. Not a one of them has a consistent bone in their body.

And the worst thing is they do not realize how bad they make themselves look not only to the gay community but to the straight community as well. When we point it out to them they insist they are perfect and incapable of error so we must just be attacking them just to hurt them.

The truth is we have very valid reasons for pointing out their inconsistencies.

“A JOURNEY OF A THOUSAND MILES”

Since: Aug 08

MUST BEGIN WITH A SINGLE STEP!

#40265 Apr 2, 2014
Frankie Rizzo wrote:
<quoted text>
Relax. You just don't understand him. Or me. I support your marriage. I believe Rev Alan does too.
Again jackazz.......I have NO issues with polygamy......I'm NOT limiting marriage to ONLY 2 individuals....the State does that and UNTIL a legal challenge to Reynolds has been filed and ruled on by SCOTUS......NOTHING will change for polygamist.......and that's ALL I've stated!!!

Oh I understand both you and Rev Alan.......NEITHER of you get it that one DOESN'T constitute the other......now, if you care to continue then so be it....but I DON'T have to and my silence DOESN'T indicate ANYTHING one way or the other......in time, polygamy may be legal......and if it is....good for them!!!
Nine Ball

Harrodsburg, KY

#40266 Apr 2, 2014
I sees this stuff on here about pollogimy and how a lot of gays is again it. What if it ain't one man and more than one wife but one gay and a bunch of other gays? Their argument for two homeysexuals to marry is that they wantw their rites. They nose that they can live together just like they is married and ain't no body can do nothing bout it. They wants their rites they says. Three or four gays could band together and live together and swap about doing the butt and pecker thang all they wants and ain't no body going to do nothing about it. But they ain't gots their rites. So it the gays and lesbanes is so hot about their rites why ain't they hot about them pollogimy people especially is they is gays and lesbanes?

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“A JOURNEY OF A THOUSAND MILES”

Since: Aug 08

MUST BEGIN WITH A SINGLE STEP!

#40267 Apr 2, 2014
Reverend Alan wrote:
<quoted text>
Instead of over-reacting, let us discuss this. It is you who do not want freedom, the freedom to discriminated, for people who discriminate against gay people. And it is not freedom you advocate but license for gay people to assert their power and force people who discriminate to stop.
You discriminate against men when it comes to marriage.
When people are free to discriminate we have peace, when people are forced to serve people they do not want to serve we have violence and an increase in government power over our lives.
Do you admit that you discriminate against men in marriage?
Actually, I do believe in Freedom.....I however DON'T believe one's religious beliefs should be able to be used to DISCRIMINATE......and that's the difference between myself and you!!!

I have NOT over-reacted......just tired of you bashing Sheeple because he WON'T succumb to your way of thinking.....and you try and tell me you believe in Freedom.....just as long as folks believe as you do...got it!!!

How the hell do I discriminate against men when it comes to marriage? Is it because I DON'T want to marry one? That's NOT discrimination.......it's just about who I'm NOT attracted to, but I certainly am NOT denying ANY man the right to marry!!!

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“A JOURNEY OF A THOUSAND MILES”

Since: Aug 08

MUST BEGIN WITH A SINGLE STEP!

#40268 Apr 2, 2014
Reverend Alan wrote:
Sorry Rev, but I make errors EVERYDAY and am far from being perfect, but I DON'T agree that allowing folks to discriminate as they please will make life peaceful.......instead it will cause more harm and chaos......this is what YOU can't see.

If 3 men want to marry.....more power to them, all that I have EVER stated is that they MUST file the appropriate lawsuit challenging the ruling put down by SCOTUS in Reynolds.......do you HONESTLY believe that Gay and Lesbian individuals would have gained the right to marry just sitting back and doing NOTHING? The answer is NO, they would NOT have and the same applies for those wishing to marry more than one other person.......this is what you CAN'T understand or see.....and that is YOUR problem, NOT mine......frankly, I would have gone to another baker....but at what point does one finally say ENOUGH IS ENOUGH? Obvious NEVER in your opinion!!!
poof

Madison, WI

#40270 Apr 2, 2014
Reverend Alan wrote:
<quoted text>
Instead of over-reacting, let us discuss this. It is you who do not want freedom, the freedom to discriminated, for people who discriminate against gay people. And it is not freedom you advocate but license for gay people to assert their power and force people who discriminate to stop.
You discriminate against men when it comes to marriage.
When people are free to discriminate we have peace, when people are forced to serve people they do not want to serve we have violence and an increase in government power over our lives.
Do you admit that you discriminate against men in marriage?
"When people are free to discriminate we have peace, when people are forced to serve people they do not want to serve we have violence and an increase in government power over our lives."

That has to be the most ignorant statement that has ever been made on Topix or any other internet forum.

The fight for equal rights during the 50's and 60's where a direct result of discrimination.
The Civil war, slavery discrimination
6 million jews, discrimination
should I go on?

Since: Feb 09

Location hidden

#40271 Apr 2, 2014
NorCal Native wrote:
<quoted text>
I DON'T agree that allowing folks to discriminate as they please will make life peaceful.......instead it will cause more harm and chaos......this is what YOU can't see.....frankly, I would have gone to another baker....
What about the harm and chaos caused to the baker? That doesn't matter because he believes in some of his religion?

Was the baker harmed when told he has to bake a cake or go to jail and pay a $10,000 fine? Yes or no. Don't change the subject and say he had a choice. Slaves had the choice to stop being slaves by killing themselves. That does not answer the question it side-steps it.

I am saying that more harm is caused by a baker being forced to bake a cake then the gay couple doing what you and I both would have done, and most normal people would do which is: walk down the street to the gay bakery.

Do you admit you discriminate against men when it comes to getting married?

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Since: Feb 09

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#40272 Apr 2, 2014
Richie T wrote:
<quoted text>No, Jesus paid off you ever-mounting debt of sin :)
Jesus is a myth he never existed.

JESUS: Luke 19:27, "But those enemies of mine who did not want me to be king over them, bring them here and kill them in front of me."

JESUS: Luke 14:26, "If anyone comes to me and does not hate his father and mother, his wife and children, his brothers and sisters yes, even his own life he cannot be my disciple."

JESUS: Matt. 10:34, NIV "Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword."

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“A JOURNEY OF A THOUSAND MILES”

Since: Aug 08

MUST BEGIN WITH A SINGLE STEP!

#40274 Apr 2, 2014
Richie T wrote:
<quoted text>No, Jesus paid off you ever-mounting debt of sin :)
Nope, sorry, but that may be what you believe, but it's NOT what I believe and I'm allowed to believe as I see fit:-)
Frankie Rizzo

Hayward, CA

#40275 Apr 2, 2014
NorCal Native wrote:
<quoted text>
Again jackazz.......I have NO issues with polygamy...
Good. So quit whining about it then.

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“A JOURNEY OF A THOUSAND MILES”

Since: Aug 08

MUST BEGIN WITH A SINGLE STEP!

#40276 Apr 2, 2014
Reverend Alan wrote:
<quoted text>
What about the harm and chaos caused to the baker? That doesn't matter because he believes in some of his religion?
Was the baker harmed when told he has to bake a cake or go to jail and pay a $10,000 fine? Yes or no. Don't change the subject and say he had a choice.
Let me answer this the best way possible......our actions when they VIOLATE laws have consequences that we MUST deal with.....in my opinion this baker violated the Anti-Discrimination policies of the State of Colorado and has to pay the consequences for his actions.....which he justifies by his religious beliefs......sorry, but that's NOT taking responsibility for his actions!!!

As for your OTHER question that you keep repeating on EVERY thread to me.,.....again the answer is NO, I DON'T discriminate against men when it comes to marriage......I have the right to choose the person I want to marry and I chose a woman who I love very much and who means the world to me.....sorry that you need to control others, but you DON'T get to control me!!!
Frankie Rizzo

Hayward, CA

#40277 Apr 2, 2014
Nine Ball wrote:
I sees this stuff on here about pollogimy and how a lot of gays is again it. What if it ain't one man and more than one wife but one gay and a bunch of other gays? Their argument for two homeysexuals to marry is that they wantw their rites. They nose that they can live together just like they is married and ain't no body can do nothing bout it. They wants their rites they says. Three or four gays could band together and live together and swap about doing the butt and pecker thang all they wants and ain't no body going to do nothing about it. But they ain't gots their rites. So it the gays and lesbanes is so hot about their rites why ain't they hot about them pollogimy people especially is they is gays and lesbanes?
Because they think polygamy is just a trick against same sex marriage. Very self centered and paranoid, eh? Imagine if polygamists were against gay marriage because they felt it a threat to polygamy? All hell would break loose. Law suits. Hate speak. Insults, threats.

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Frankie Rizzo

Hayward, CA

#40278 Apr 2, 2014
NorCal Native wrote:
<quoted text>
Sorry Rev, but I make errors EVERYDAY and am far from being perfect, but I DON'T agree that allowing folks to discriminate as they please will make life peaceful.......instead it will cause more harm and chaos......this is what YOU can't see.
If 3 men want to marry.....more power to them, all that I have EVER stated is that they MUST file the appropriate lawsuit challenging the ruling put down by SCOTUS in Reynolds.......do you HONESTLY believe that Gay and Lesbian individuals would have gained the right to marry just sitting back and doing NOTHING? The answer is NO, they would NOT have and the same applies for those wishing to marry more than one other person.......this is what you CAN'T understand or see.....and that is YOUR problem, NOT mine......frankly, I would have gone to another baker....but at what point does one finally say ENOUGH IS ENOUGH? Obvious NEVER in your opinion!!!
That you think polygamists are doing nothing is irrelevant as to why it should not be allowed. Sorry you don't understand this simple concept. I wish you did. But it's on you. Not us.

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Frankie Rizzo

Hayward, CA

#40279 Apr 2, 2014
Reverend Alan wrote:
<quoted text>
...I am saying that more harm is caused by a baker being forced to bake a cake then the gay couple doing what you and I both would have done, and most normal people would do which is: walk down the street to the gay bakery...
Spot on.

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Frankie Rizzo

Hayward, CA

#40281 Apr 2, 2014
NorCal Native wrote:
<quoted text>
Nope, sorry, but that may be what you believe, but it's NOT what I believe and I'm allowed to believe as I see fit:-)
It was three o'clock in the morning when Norcal's
phone rang, so she trudged from her third-floor bedroom
all the way down to the ground-floor drawing-room to
answer it because she remembered she left it there.
"Hello?", said Norcal.
"Hello" said Poofy. "Is this
one-one-one-one-one-one?"
"No", said Norcal. "This is eleven-eleven-eleven."
"Oh," said Poof-Daddy, "I must have the
wrong number. I'm terribly sorry for disturbing you."
"Oh, that's all right", said Norcal. "I had to get
up to answer this damn phone anyway."

YUK!YUK!YUK! Ah good times!

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“equality for ALL means ALL”

Since: Jan 07

Fort Lauderdale FL

#40283 Apr 2, 2014
Reverend Alan wrote:
<quoted text>

I am saying that more harm is caused by a baker being forced to bake a cake then the gay couple doing what you and I both would have done, and most normal people would do which is: walk down the street to the gay bakery.
I have a tougher time with this idea, and I don't think it's quite so simple.

On the one hand, you're right - I wouldn't just walk down the street to the gay bakery, I would seek out the gay or gay-friendly bakery.

In fact, this is no hypothetical. When we got married, I directly asked each service person beforehand their position on the subject. I didn't want any surprises on the day of the wedding from people who had a problem with gay people. Why would I even want them to participate? Why would I want to reward them with my business?

Our photographer was a lesbian. The hall was the same hall where my straight brother got married, but they were listed on a site showing gay-friendly venues, and still I called to verify that. They were, in fact, quite friendly. Our DJ was a gay friend of mine. Actually the only aspect I'm not sure about was the cake - because the venue ordered the cake from their usual favorite local bakery. They gave us a book to pick out the cake we liked, asked us to pick the flavors and fillings, and voila! A cake showed up. There was no writing on the cake with our names on it or anything. So I don't know if the bakery even knew whether or not it was for a gay wedding. I had no direct contact with them.

The only distinguishing feature was the cake topper - and I don't even know if they were put on by the bakery or by the venue.

My spouse and I had a lot in mind when we put our wedding together: one was to make sure it was serious enough to show that this was important to us. The other was to let our own silly sides come through, both to be true to ourselves, and to put at ease those straight folks in attendance who may have been unsure about the whole thing or at least had never been to a gay wedding before.(This was waaaay back in 2007 LOL.)

So one of the things we did was for the toast: the venue brought out two giant, 2-foot high glass champagne flutes to the head table for us. Just something to lighten the mood.

Another was the cake topper. What a big question - where to get a guy/guy cake topper and blah blah blah. My spouse and I had an inside joke from very early in our relationship. We are both South Park fans, and we used to imitate Cartman talking to Kyle. This gradually led to each of us calling each other Kyle more often than using our real names. So...we bought two sets of 6" South Park figures. We put both Kyles on top of the cake. We put the rest in the gift baskets for our wedding party (with a small bottle of their favorite spirits.)

Boy, do I digress...lol

Anyway, we pulled it off. It was fun, it was deeply meaningful, and I will never forget it.

So here's where I have a problem. Suppose we had been in the middle of Mississippi and there was no gay-friendly option? Is that OK in America?

I believe you are consistent and you mentioned that even white people shouldn't have to serve black people if they don't want to. How can that be a good answer?

What if a business has something against people in wheelchairs, or is just cheap and doesn't want to make a ramp? Is that OK?

It seems to me we have dealt with this situation numerous times, and always ruled in favor of the individual expecting goods & services. Eventually society catches up to that, mostly. But it definitely advances society, whereas continuing to permit discrimination based on skin color, sexual orientation, sex, religion, etc. is not cool.

Either way, you could argue one side is not free. So in that case, I believe you err on the side of who is RIGHT. And since these biases are almost always borne of ignorance, I don't see how discrimination borne of the same ignorance can be right.
Frankie Rizzo

Hayward, CA

#40284 Apr 2, 2014
Tony C wrote:
<quoted text>
I have a tougher time with this idea, and I don't think it's quite so simple.
On the one hand, you're right - I wouldn't just walk down the street to the gay bakery, I would seek out the gay or gay-friendly bakery.
In fact, this is no hypothetical. When we got married, I directly asked each service person beforehand their position on the subject. I didn't want any surprises on the day of the wedding from people who had a problem with gay people. Why would I even want them to participate? Why would I want to reward them with my business?
Our photographer was a lesbian. The hall was the same hall where my straight brother got married, but they were listed on a site showing gay-friendly venues, and still I called to verify that. They were, in fact, quite friendly. Our DJ was a gay friend of mine. Actually the only aspect I'm not sure about was the cake - because the venue ordered the cake from their usual favorite local bakery. They gave us a book to pick out the cake we liked, asked us to pick the flavors and fillings, and voila! A cake showed up. There was no writing on the cake with our names on it or anything. So I don't know if the bakery even knew whether or not it was for a gay wedding. I had no direct contact with them.
The only distinguishing feature was the cake topper - and I don't even know if they were put on by the bakery or by the venue.
My spouse and I had a lot in mind when we put our wedding together: one was to make sure it was serious enough to show that this was important to us. The other was to let our own silly sides come through, both to be true to ourselves, and to put at ease those straight folks in attendance who may have been unsure about the whole thing or at least had never been to a gay wedding before.(This was waaaay back in 2007 LOL.)
So one of the things we did was for the toast: the venue brought out two giant, 2-foot high glass champagne flutes to the head table for us. Just something to lighten the mood.
Another was the cake topper. What a big question - where to get a guy/guy cake topper and blah blah blah. My spouse and I had an inside joke from very early in our relationship. We are both South Park fans, and we used to imitate Cartman talking to Kyle. This gradually led to each of us calling each other Kyle more often than using our real names. So...we bought two sets of 6" South Park figures. We put both Kyles on top of the cake. We put the rest in the gift baskets for our wedding party (with a small bottle of their favorite spirits.)
Boy, do I digress...lol
Anyway, we pulled it off. It was fun, it was deeply meaningful, and I will never forget it.
So here's where I have a problem. Suppose we had been in the middle of Mississippi and there was no gay-friendly option? Is that OK in America?
I believe you are consistent and you mentioned that even white people shouldn't have to serve black people if they don't want to. How can that be a good answer?
What if a business has something against people in wheelchairs, or is just cheap and doesn't want to make a ramp? Is that OK?
It seems to me we have dealt with this situation numerous times, and always ruled in favor of the individual expecting goods & services. Eventually society catches up to that, mostly. But it definitely advances society, whereas continuing to permit discrimination based on skin color, sexual orientation, sex, religion, etc. is not cool.
Either way, you could argue one side is not free. So in that case, I believe you err on the side of who is RIGHT. And since these biases are almost always borne of ignorance, I don't see how discrimination borne of the same ignorance can be right.
I love LGBT weddings. Even the old guard lets down their guard when they see two happy people. It's contagious. Weddings are joyous occasions no matter if the are homosexual or heterosexual, monogamous or polygamous.(Therein lies the rub. It makes me a "homophobe" to support polygamy it seems).

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Frankie Rizzo

Hayward, CA

#40285 Apr 2, 2014
NorCal Native wrote:
<quoted text>
Again jackazz.......
Oh alright, once more but are you sure you're a lesbian? You're looking like a damn rabbit.
Legs pinned back behind your ears looking like Bugs Bunny!

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Frankie Rizzo

Hayward, CA

#40286 Apr 2, 2014
YUK!YUK!YUK! Ah good times. All kidding aside, consenting adult polygamy should be allowed. Don't like it? Don't do it.

Marriage. There is no one right way. That's my message don't hate me for it. Aw hell go ahead. Hate me. It just proves my point. You ain't better then them.

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Frankie Rizzo

Hayward, CA

#40287 Apr 2, 2014
Reverend Alan wrote:
<quoted text>
What about the harm and chaos caused to the baker? That doesn't matter because he believes in some of his religion?
Doesn't matter because he's straight and the couple is gay. Let's cut through the bullsh!t. Stop walking on eggs. Smash! Now it's a smashed egg.

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