Homosexual marriage is legal

Jun 27, 2013 Full story: www.examiner.com 2,468

In a 5-4 decision, which, did not surprise anyone, the Supreme Court demonstrated once again that the federal high court is willing to impose by judicial edict what the voters of the individual States in the majority of States have refused to do: allow the marriage of homosexuals ...

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Seeker

Lowell, MA

#791 Jul 11, 2013
Rick in Kansas wrote:
<quoted text>just like you in your absurd belief that Romans 1:26-27 is actually a condemnation of homosexuality. You believe what you want, no matter what the book actually says.
So it's "absurd" to believe that? Can you explain EXACTLY how it's absurd to believe that the most immediate and clear meaning of those verses are absurd, except for how you need for them to be reinterpreted? Look, it's one thing if you want to apply some "absurd" reinterpretation to them, but to call the most obvious and immediate interpretation of them absurd is absurd in itself. You have no reasoning skills, only apparent emotional skills and an ability for you to invent whatever you need to. YOU are being absurd.

“ reality, what a concept”

Since: Nov 07

this one

#792 Jul 11, 2013
Seeker wrote:
Go ahead and twist it to meet your own personal needs.
Not twisting anything dear, unlike you, I read your two favorite verses in the context as it was written. Paul was condemning idolatry, the same sex sex, a wake up call to its participants that they were being punished for what they had done. He was writing to folk he assumed to be straight, because us gay folk would not be acting against our nature. If you really want to pray that it is a condemnation of homosexuality, you go right ahead, but that would be between you and God, your prayer, meaningless to us.
Seeker wrote:
Everybody only ends up doing that anyway about anything, besides even the scriptures. People twist contracts the same way. It doesn't have to even be the Bible to show what people do when they read something that they don't like. It's basic instinct for people to even be willing to lie to themselves if they think it will fit their own personal agenda, and it's called curing cognitive dissonance.
If that's what you want to believe, believe, but I don't have as low of an opinion of our species as you do.

“ reality, what a concept”

Since: Nov 07

this one

#794 Jul 11, 2013
Seeker wrote:
So it's "absurd" to believe that?
From my reading of it, you know, in the actual context of Paul's condemnation of the behavior he had heard about the Christians of Rome engaging in, idolatry; you imagining God is condemning homosexuality, homosexuals and/or homosexual behavior there is absurd. God gave them over to it as recompense for their sin, you know idolatry, He then gave them over to a whole laundry list of other acts which Paul also wrote of his disapproval of, you'll even find yourself on that list, by the way. If you were bothering to pay attention, the only sin on God's mind is their having other Gods, everything that follows, God's punishment for that. If you're going to worship false idols, this is what you get, straight folk who forget they're straight and etc.
Seeker wrote:
Can you explain EXACTLY how it's absurd to believe that the most immediate and clear meaning of those verses are absurd, except for how you need for them to be reinterpreted?
Hon, what is absurd is you quoting just two verses and pretending you know what the plot to the story is. Think about it sweetie, you have found the ONLY place in the Bible where acts of same sex sex are undeniably taking place, but God doesn't pull a Sodom like stunt and their fellow Christians aren't called to rise up and slaughter them, there is no sign that God punishes this supposed sin in any way, shape or form. Why is that? You have two verses and you want me to forget that there are 25 before them, 5 after and 14 chapters that follow those. No. Just so you know, the beginning of the next chapter addresses exactly what YOU are doing here with these verses. Spoiler alert, not good.
Seeker wrote:
Look, it's one thing if you want to apply some "absurd" reinterpretation to them, but to call the most obvious and immediate interpretation of them absurd is absurd in itself.
What you aren't getting is I'm probably the strictest literalist in the room. The books of the Christian Bibles, except for the proverbs, were not written to be understood in fortune cookie sized chunks. Each book is to be understood as a whole not as bits and pieces.
Seeker wrote:
You have no reasoning skills, only apparent emotional skills and an ability for you to invent whatever you need to. YOU are being absurd.
So you pray hon, so you pray.

“Electronic graffiti”

Since: Jun 13

Down Under

#795 Jul 12, 2013
Rick in Kansas wrote:
<quoted text>Not twisting anything dear, unlike you, I read your two favorite verses in the context as it was written. Paul was condemning idolatry, the same sex sex, a wake up call to its participants that they were being punished for what they had done. He was writing to folk he assumed to be straight, because us gay folk would not be acting against our nature. If you really want to pray that it is a condemnation of homosexuality, you go right ahead, but that would be between you and God, your prayer, meaningless to us. <quoted text>If that's what you want to believe, believe, but I don't have as low of an opinion of our species as you do.
It probably refers to the temple prostitution that took place in those days, both female and male. It was a very different age to the present world.
Seeker

Lowell, MA

#796 Jul 12, 2013
Rick in Kansas wrote:
<quoted text>From my reading of it, you know, in the actual context of Paul's condemnation of the behavior he had heard about the Christians of Rome engaging in, idolatry; you imagining God is condemning homosexuality, homosexuals and/or homosexual behavior there is absurd. God gave them over to it as recompense for their sin, you know idolatry,
He then gave them over to a whole laundry list of other acts which Paul also wrote of his disapproval of,
Sure but it doesn't change the fact that homosexual acts is on that list. It's right there in black and white. There's no mistaking it or changing it no matter how much you want to.
Rick in Kansas wrote:
<quoted text>
you'll even find yourself on that list, by the way. If you were bothering to pay attention, the only sin on God's mind is their having other Gods, everything that follows, God's punishment for that. If you're going to worship false idols, this is what you get, straight folk who forget they're straight and etc. <quoted text>Hon, what is absurd is you quoting just two verses and pretending you know what the plot to the story is.
The plot of the story does not change what those verses clearly mean.
Rick in Kansas wrote:
<quoted text>
Think about it sweetie, you have found the ONLY place in the Bible where acts of same sex sex are undeniably taking place, but God doesn't pull a Sodom like stunt and their fellow Christians aren't called to rise up and slaughter them, there is no sign that God punishes this supposed sin in any way, shape or form.
Who said anything about slaughtering them? Look, the Bible simply says that it is wrong in the eyes of God.
Rick in Kansas wrote:
<quoted text>
Why is that? You have two verses and you want me to forget that there are 25 before them, 5 after and 14 chapters that follow those. No. Just so you know, the beginning of the next chapter addresses exactly what YOU are doing here with these verses. Spoiler alert, not good.
So if I accurately quote verses, I am judging? I guess now, nobody is allowed to accurately quote verses if they don't say what you want them to say. This is insane.
Rick in Kansas wrote:
<quoted text>
What you aren't getting is I'm probably the strictest literalist in the room. The books of the Christian Bibles, except for the proverbs, were not written to be understood in fortune cookie sized chunks. Each book is to be understood as a whole not as bits and pieces. So you pray hon, so you pray.
Look, no matter how much you want to, there's nothing that can be done to change the clear and obvious meaning of those verses. It is considered depraved behavior. Nothing says that homosexuals will automatically go to hell, it is simply listed as detestable to God as are many other sins.

But it is impossible to have a rational conversation with you as you are nothing but a bag of emotions and anger.
Seeker

Lowell, MA

#797 Jul 12, 2013
Hey I didn't write those verses, I merely quoted them, so don't blame me. Sometimes I wish they didn't say what they say, but they clearly do, and there's nothing that I or anybody else can do to change that. It is considered a sin, just like many other things are, and it's right there in black and white. People always want to changes things into something more convenient for them. Seems to be human nature.
Seeker

Lowell, MA

#798 Jul 12, 2013
Rick in Kansas wrote:
<quoted text>Not twisting anything dear, unlike you, I read your two favorite verses in the context as it was written. Paul was condemning idolatry, the same sex sex, a wake up call to its participants that they were being punished for what they had done.
So you are basically admitting that homosexual behavior is a punishment for idolatry, and yet on the other hand, you say the behavior is perfectly fine.
Rick in Kansas wrote:
<quoted text>
He was writing to folk he assumed to be straight, because us gay folk would not be acting against our nature.
So on the one hand, people are either born homosexual or not, but now, when convenient for you, you say that straight people can become homosexual and you are even calling this a punishment for idolatry, and yet, you are also saying there is nothing wrong with the behavior. You are a walking contradiction.
Rick in Kansas wrote:
<quoted text>
If you really want to pray that it is a condemnation of homosexuality, you go right ahead,
I don't have to pray for anything, it's right there in black and white. Sometimes I wish it didn't say that and maybe that would make life easier for everybody, but it clearly does and there is nothing that you or I can do about that.
Rick in Kansas wrote:
<quoted text>
but that would be between you and God, your prayer, meaningless to us.
Sure it's meaningless to you, simply because it doesn't say what you want it to say. Hey, it's the ala carte of religion. Take the parts you like, and don't accept the parts you don't. Hey, why don't you just write your own religion while you are at it. You might as well. If I were homosexual, I would probably be more likely to just reject the whole thing, rather than pick and choose. That would at least be rational.
Rick in Kansas wrote:
<quoted text>
If that's what you want to believe, believe, but I don't have as low of an opinion of our species as you do.
I said that people just believe whatever they want to believe and they do this about almost everything in life, and you are proving my point right now. It's like the guy who shouts "people don't shout". It's amazing to watch it happen right before me.
Seeker

Lowell, MA

#799 Jul 12, 2013
Rosa_Winkel wrote:
<quoted text>
It probably refers to the temple prostitution that took place in those days, both female and male. It was a very different age to the present world.
Come on, this isn't just speaking about prostitution. It's amazing the excuses that people will invent for things that they don't want to hear.

26 Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones. 27 In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error.

Since: Mar 07

Hanover, VA

#800 Jul 12, 2013
Seeker wrote:
<quoted text>
Come on, this isn't just speaking about prostitution. It's amazing the excuses that people will invent for things that they don't want to hear.
26 Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones. 27 In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error.
How in the world can a gay man be said to have abandoned the "natural use" of women, when they have never had it? "using women" is never natural for a gay man. Only a heterosexual would do that. And the chapter explains exactly why they did that.

At least start with logic.

Since: Mar 07

Hanover, VA

#801 Jul 12, 2013
Seeker wrote:
<quoted text>
Sure but it doesn't change the fact that homosexual acts is on that list. It's right there in black and white. There's no mistaking it or changing it no matter how much you want to.
.
Context is always key. Is it the acts, or because straight men were worshiping in a pagan way?

Prove your hypothesis. Use the context, study what was happening among those early Christians, and what Paul was worried about.

Then read the text.

THEN come back and make a more logical argument.
Seeker

Lowell, MA

#802 Jul 12, 2013
Quest wrote:
<quoted text>
How in the world can a gay man be said to have abandoned the "natural use" of women, when they have never had it? "using women" is never natural for a gay man. Only a heterosexual would do that. And the chapter explains exactly why they did that.
At least start with logic.
Well, according to religious scriptures, homosexuality is NOT considered natural. Aside from religion, it seems to me that one of the most basic aspects of natural design is that the penis was clearly made to fit the vagina. Seems almost like a lock and key. Also, according to natural design, sex is supposed to be simultaneously pleasurable for both people, and apparently nature designed it that way so that they would have sex with each other that would lead to procreation, and hence the continuation of the species.

While man and girl pedophilia seems to be socially abhorrent because it messes with the psychology of the younger person in a way that effects their ability to deal with the complex aspects of modern life and society, nature doesn't seem to care about that at all. It doesn't care about whatever social complexities we want to invent, it only cares about procreation and the continuation of the species, and no matter how young a girl is when she first menstruates, nature is saying that it is time for her to have a baby and doesn't care who it is that impregnates her.

Homosexuality on the other hand, is being made socially acceptable as opposed to pedophilia because there is at least consent between two adults. But from a natural or nature standpoint, it is a disorder or a flaw of nature because the behavior INHERENTLY does not lead to procreation. Nature sometimes produces flawed things, like birth defects, blindness, or even homosexuality. But again, maybe homosexuality is not a birth defect at all if we listen to what most scientists say when they say it is a complex combination of environmental, cognitive and biological factors. Somewhere along the way, the wires get crossed and they aren't sure why or when.
Seeker

Lowell, MA

#803 Jul 12, 2013
Quest wrote:
<quoted text>
Context is always key. Is it the acts, or because straight men were worshiping in a pagan way?
Prove your hypothesis. Use the context, study what was happening among those early Christians, and what Paul was worried about.
Then read the text.
THEN come back and make a more logical argument.
Here is more context.

21 For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22 Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools 23 and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like a mortal human being and birds and animals and reptiles.

24 Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. 25 They exchanged the truth about God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen.

26 Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones. 27 In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error.

So because of their other sins, God also gave them over to the sin of homosexuality rather than protecting them from that. How in the world can someone look at those verses and not think that they are treating homosexual behavior as negative? It's impossible.

People keep reading additional things into what I am saying because of their anger and past experiences. Nowhere does it say that homosexuality is greater than other sins. nowhere does it say that anybody is supposed to attack homosexuals. Nowhere does it say that homosexuals automatically go to hell. But it clearly DOES treat that behavior as sinful. As I said before, sometimes I wish I could rewrite the verses so that it makes it easier for everyone, but I cannot. They are what they are. If someone wants to just throw the whole Bible out as nonsense because they don't like what it says, then fine. That's at least rational. But to change the meaning of clear verses to suit their needs is completely irrational and merely self serving.
Rose Feratu

Hoboken, NJ

#804 Jul 12, 2013
Seeker wrote:
Hey I didn't write those verses, I merely quoted them, so don't blame me. Sometimes I wish they didn't say what they say, but they clearly do, and there's nothing that I or anybody else can do to change that. It is considered a sin, just like many other things are, and it's right there in black and white. People always want to changes things into something more convenient for them. Seems to be human nature.
What your Buybull says or doesn't say is IRRELEVANT.
Rose Feratu

Hoboken, NJ

#805 Jul 12, 2013
Seeker wrote:
<quoted text>
Well, according to religious scriptures, homosexuality is NOT considered natural.
According your YOUR religious scriptures a bat is a bird, serpents can talk, and a 600 year old man built an ark. Yeah, right....

“TAKIA AND TA TONKA”

Since: Aug 08

HAPPY TOGETHER!!!

#806 Jul 12, 2013
Seeker wrote:
Hey I didn't write those verses, I merely quoted them, so don't blame me. Sometimes I wish they didn't say what they say, but they clearly do, and there's nothing that I or anybody else can do to change that. It is considered a sin, just like many other things are, and it's right there in black and white. People always want to changes things into something more convenient for them. Seems to be human nature.
YOUR BIBLE SCRIPTURES ARE IRRELEVANT TO THE LAWS THAT GOVERN THIS GREAT NATION!!!

When will you get that? This Country has NOT now nor EVER been a Christian Nation and no where in our Constitution is God mentioned!!!

Believe as you want to.....that you are entitled to......BUT your religious beliefs END where mine begin and I can believe as I want to!!!
Seeker

Lowell, MA

#807 Jul 12, 2013
Rose Feratu wrote:
<quoted text>
What your Buybull says or doesn't say is IRRELEVANT.
Fine, just don't argue that it says something else than it clearly says as others have. I didn't even quote from Romans at first, it was someone else who did and tried to use a verse about clearing your mind to be pro homosexual, So I merely asked them that since they want to quote from Romans, then what do they think of the verses that I quoted? I haven't heard from the person since.
Seeker

Lowell, MA

#808 Jul 12, 2013
NorCal Native wrote:
<quoted text>
YOUR BIBLE SCRIPTURES ARE IRRELEVANT TO THE LAWS THAT GOVERN THIS GREAT NATION!!!
Fine, just don't try to say that they say something other than what they actually do. I believe that you might have been one of the people that tried to do that in the past.
NorCal Native wrote:
<quoted text>
When will you get that? This Country has NOT now nor EVER been a Christian Nation and no where in our Constitution is God mentioned!!!
Believe as you want to.....that you are entitled to......BUT your religious beliefs END where mine begin and I can believe as I want to!!!
What are your religious beliefs? Have you written your own Bible?

“TAKIA AND TA TONKA”

Since: Aug 08

HAPPY TOGETHER!!!

#809 Jul 12, 2013
Seeker wrote:
<quoted text>
Well, according to religious scriptures, homosexuality is NOT considered natural. Aside from religion, it seems to me that one of the most basic aspects of natural design is that the penis was clearly made to fit the vagina. Seems almost like a lock and key. Also, according to natural design, sex is supposed to be simultaneously pleasurable for both people, and apparently nature designed it that way so that they would have sex with each other that would lead to procreation, and hence the continuation of the species.
Scripture is irrelevant, your idea of natural design is your opinion because it is clear that A PEN!S is not meant to go into every vagina and procreation DOES NOT happen for every couple who has sex!!!

Apparently you know NOTHING about intimate relations between Gay men and Lesbians to make your asinine comment about sex being pleasurable ONLY if you do it this particular way and only to make sure you have children.......lol!!!

People have sex for many reasons and if it weren't pleasurable......most wouldn't do it......so, stop trying to tell others what sex is for and let consenting adults manage their personal business!!!
Rose Feratu

Hoboken, NJ

#810 Jul 12, 2013
Seeker wrote:
<quoted text>
Fine, just don't argue that it says something else than it clearly says as others have. I didn't even quote from Romans at first, it was someone else who did and tried to use a verse about clearing your mind to be pro homosexual, So I merely asked them that since they want to quote from Romans, then what do they think of the verses that I quoted? I haven't heard from the person since.
Probably because they realize anyone stupid enough to believe the Buybull is a mindless idiot, incapable of rational thought.
Seeker

Lowell, MA

#811 Jul 12, 2013
NorCal Native wrote:
<quoted text>
Scripture is irrelevant, your idea of natural design is your opinion because it is clear that A PEN!S is not meant to go into every vagina
I didn't say that every penis is supposed to have sex with every vagina, but clearly the two sexual organs were made to fit with each other.
NorCal Native wrote:
<quoted text>
and procreation DOES NOT happen for every couple who has sex!!!
Apparently you know NOTHING about intimate relations between Gay men and Lesbians to make your asinine comment about sex being pleasurable ONLY if you do it this particular way and only to make sure you have children.......lol!!!
I said simultaneously pleasurable as in both receiving actual sexual stimulus simultaneously. For you to have that experience with your girlfriend, you have to use a double sided penis prop. If you have to use props, that should tell you something right there.
NorCal Native wrote:
<quoted text>
People have sex for many reasons and if it weren't pleasurable......most wouldn't do it
And that's exactly why nature made it so pleasurable. So that people would do it, procreate and keep the species going. Otherwise, they might not even bother.

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