Book with two moms returns to element...

Book with two moms returns to elementary school library

There are 394 comments on the www.proudparenting.com story from Jan 16, 2013, titled Book with two moms returns to elementary school library. In it, www.proudparenting.com reports that:

The ACLU of Utah defended the book "In Our Mothers' House" by Patricia Polacco, after it was removed from the Davis School District's library shelves...

Join the discussion below, or Read more at www.proudparenting.com.

Since: Dec 08

Toronto, ON, Canada

#22 Jan 16, 2013
Another headline composed in such a manner as to appear silly. How can a book have one parent, much less two. I thought books came from printing presses. Are you telling me they come from the insides of another book?

It should read "Book about two moms..."

Can't we LGBT people be just a bit more literate?
straight shooter

Barre, VT

#23 Jan 16, 2013
Gay And Proud wrote:
<quoted text>
Orientation issues should be included in any sex-ed classes, where they belong. And if you think kids don't need to learn sex-ed, then you're a world-class moron.
There's a reason why states that teach "abstinence only" or nothing at all have the highest rates of teen pregnancies and STDs.
Oh I see, different rules....
based on what YOU believe...
do you even get what consistency is?

“Unconvinced”

Since: Nov 09

Seattle, WA

#24 Jan 16, 2013
straight shooter wrote:
Oh I see, different rules....
based on what YOU believe...
do you even get what consistency is?
The logical result of your brand of "extremist consistency" would eventually disallow teaching anything, anywhere. Maybe we should have ONE student per classroom, teaching him or her SELF whatever "alternatives" he or she chooses to believe! EVERYTHING can be an "optional" course! It's the only way to be COMPLETELY consistent, if that's even necessary.

The reason that religion is not taught in schools, is NOT because religion is an "alternative", it's because one's choice of religion is a personal, private matter, to be made without pressure from the state. ALL supernatural beliefs must be made this way, because supernaturalism doesn't provide a lick of evidence to support its teaching.

No other school subject is hamstrung this way. Math, English and writing, even health classes can demonstrate physical evidence supporting their teachings. You may not LIKE the idea of people being gay and living in families of this style, but the fact is that some people ARE gay, they DO have families, and no evidence exists that this is harmful.

No "alternative" is necessary to teach people that someone ELSE should NOT be allowed to live as they feel is best.
straight shooter

Barre, VT

#25 Jan 16, 2013
EdmondWA wrote:
<quoted text>
The logical result of your brand of "extremist consistency" would eventually disallow teaching anything, anywhere.
dude, its your rule, I just want it applied consistently...
straight shooter

Barre, VT

#26 Jan 16, 2013
EdmondWA wrote:
<quoted text>

The reason that religion is not taught in schools, is NOT because religion is an "alternative", it's because one's choice of religion is a personal, private matter, to be made without pressure from the state.
and this differs from orientation how?

“Unconvinced”

Since: Nov 09

Seattle, WA

#28 Jan 16, 2013
straight shooter wrote:
and this differs from orientation how?
No one chooses their sexual orientation. You didn't choose yours, I didn't choose mine. Your body will TELL you what your orientation is, quite without your input.
SLIF

Hamilton, Canada

#29 Jan 16, 2013
The kids are tired of watching tv and seeing and having to listen to (straight)dysfunctional families ever single day.Incest,wife beater,homelessness,child abuse,murder,suicide,all of the (straight) daytime soap opera tv shows.
straight shooter

Barre, VT

#30 Jan 16, 2013
EdmondWA wrote:
<quoted text>
No one chooses their sexual orientation. You didn't choose yours, I didn't choose mine. Your body will TELL you what your orientation is, quite without your input.
is that a rational distinction for why religion is not to be taught but orientation is?
so again, all that you wrote is applicable to orientation (but the choice which is DEBATABLE)
most religious people think they were born that way as well...

“Equality First”

Since: Jan 09

Location hidden

#31 Jan 16, 2013
straight shooter wrote:
<quoted text>
is that a rational distinction for why religion is not to be taught but orientation is?
so again, all that you wrote is applicable to orientation (but the choice which is DEBATABLE)
most religious people think they were born that way as well...
So the religion of which student should be taught? Judaism, Christianity, Islam, Atheism? Students come to school with all of those different religions, or lack of them. Whose is right to teach to all?
AzAdam

Charlottesville, VA

#32 Jan 16, 2013
straight shooter wrote:
<quoted text>
does creationism have any place in public schools?
consistency?
Sure. They can check out the Bible if their parents don't call the librarian and put them on a restricted list .

“Luke laughs at hypocrites!”

Since: Sep 10

Palm Springs, California

#33 Jan 16, 2013
straight shooter wrote:
<quoted text>
right, and so I have no problem teaching your alternative theories on family along with a broad spectrum of OTHER beliefs on that issue...
see how CONSISTENCY works?
So, I assume your PERFECT school full of perfect families won't allow divorced or single parent households either, since they are not, you know, mainstream enough for you.

Say "hi" to Larry Mondelo and Lumpy Rutherford for me, Mr. Cleaver. How's the Beav doing lately? Wally graduate yet?

Since: Apr 08

Cleveland, OH

#34 Jan 16, 2013
straight shooter wrote:
<quoted text>
is that a rational distinction for why religion is not to be taught but orientation is?
so again, all that you wrote is applicable to orientation (but the choice which is DEBATABLE)
most religious people think they were born that way as well...
Religious people convert ALL THE TIME from one religion to another. Compare that with the so-called "ex-gay" movement, where even the most popular group has had its founder admit it just doesn't work.

http://www.advocate.com/arts-entertainment/te... if you don't believe me.(It's old news but the anti-gay seem to be allergic to facts.)

“Luke laughs at hypocrites!”

Since: Sep 10

Palm Springs, California

#35 Jan 16, 2013
straight shooter wrote:
<quoted text>
and this differs from orientation how?
No one is BORN a religion, THAT is choice. One may be born into a religious house and grow up and have ZERO interest in that church or its doctrine. I knew I was a big ol' homo before I even knew what sex was, or what it was about. No one recruited me, nor showed me books or anything. I knew that I liked Bobby K's dick when we were both age 5 or so and changing for the beach. I didn't know WHY I liked seeing him naked, I just knew I felt good seeing his being naked.

I wish there had been some acknowledgment for ME at that age so I could have realized I wasn't alone in the world with my feelings.

“Unconvinced”

Since: Nov 09

Seattle, WA

#36 Jan 16, 2013
straight shooter wrote:
is that a rational distinction for why religion is not to be taught but orientation is?
Orientation CANNOT be taught. I couldn't MAKE you gay with all the "orientation education" in the world.

Religion isn't taught because, imagine the DEBACLE that would ensue just in trying to decide WHICH religion to teach! Would it be Christianity, simply because it's the most popular in this country? If so, which denomination? There are THOUSANDS. And even IF we could narrow it down, WHO would teach it? Who would be qualified? HOW would they become qualified? How do you CONFIRM which religious claims are actually TRUE? Supernaturalism and superstition are RIFE with such contradictions. If people want to believe in ghosts and goblins and monsters, they'll have to reach those conclusions themselves.

A person can be whatever religion they want. They can change it DAILY if they so choose. Try making such changes to your orientation, and let me know how it works out.
straight shooter wrote:
so again, all that you wrote is applicable to orientation (but the choice which is DEBATABLE)
most religious people think they were born that way as well...
Most religious people believe a LOT of crazy crapola that cannot be proven (nor could have even truly happened, if we examine it closely enough).

But you will continue to misunderstand and mischaracterize this issue, for as long as you believe that orientation can either be chosen OR taught. No school is trying to "teach orientation". They are trying to teach that ALL human beings deserve respect and inclusion, REGARDLESS of orientation. They are trying to teach that orientation is simply NOT a good reason for treating others as if they were sub-human, a lesson that many sorely need.
AzAdam

Charlottesville, VA

#37 Jan 16, 2013
straight shooter wrote:
<quoted text>
does creationism have any place in public schools?
consistency?
You don't just want creationism presented. You want it presented as science. It doesn't meet that definition. Period. They can teach it in religion class. Sure.

I make sure my kids know about it and teach them to respect the beliefs of those other children.
AzAdam

Charlottesville, VA

#38 Jan 16, 2013
straight shooter wrote:
<quoted text>
is that a rational distinction for why religion is not to be taught but orientation is?
so again, all that you wrote is applicable to orientation (but the choice which is DEBATABLE)
most religious people think they were born that way as well...
The spherical nature of the planet as opposed to being flat is also debatable.

Whether the sun revolves around the earth or the earth around the sun is debatable.

You can debate anything with an uneducated person.
Sgt Common Sense

United States

#39 Jan 16, 2013
straight shooter wrote:
<quoted text>
does creationism have any place in public schools?
consistency?
Absolutely, many schools teach mythology.
straight shooter

Barre, VT

#40 Jan 16, 2013
Gay And Proud wrote:
<quoted text>
Religious people convert ALL THE TIME from one religion to another. Compare that with the so-called "ex-gay" movement, where even the most popular group has had its founder admit it just doesn't work.
)
you are APRTLY right:

look into Miller v Jenkins a vt custody case:

"In the civil union dissolution proceedings, primary custody of Isabella was granted to Miller as Miller was her biological mother, while Jenkins was granted visitation rights. Miller subsequently moved to Virginia, which does not recognize civil unions, and denied attempts by Jenkins to visit Isabella. Miller further claimed that she had become a fundamentalist Christian and was no longer a lesbian."

she chose religion AND chose to reject being a lesbian...
straight shooter

Barre, VT

#41 Jan 16, 2013
EdmondWA wrote:
<quoted text>
Orientation CANNOT be taught. I couldn't MAKE you gay with all the "orientation education" in the world.
Religion isn't taught because, imagine the DEBACLE that would ensue just in trying to decide WHICH religion to teach! Would it be Christianity, simply because it's the most popular in this country? If so, which denomination? There are THOUSANDS. And even IF we could narrow it down, WHO would teach it? Who would be qualified? HOW would they become qualified? How do you CONFIRM which religious claims are actually TRUE? Supernaturalism and superstition are RIFE with such contradictions. If people want to believe in ghosts and goblins and monsters, they'll have to reach those conclusions themselves.
A person can be whatever religion they want. They can change it DAILY if they so choose. Try making such changes to your orientation, and let me know how it works out.
<quoted text>
Most religious people believe a LOT of crazy crapola that cannot be proven (nor could have even truly happened, if we examine it closely enough).
But you will continue to misunderstand and mischaracterize this issue, for as long as you believe that orientation can either be chosen OR taught. No school is trying to "teach orientation". They are trying to teach that ALL human beings deserve respect and inclusion, REGARDLESS of orientation. They are trying to teach that orientation is simply NOT a good reason for treating others as if they were sub-human, a lesson that many sorely need.
there is not a consistent bone in your body...

“Luke laughs at hypocrites!”

Since: Sep 10

Palm Springs, California

#42 Jan 16, 2013
AzAdam wrote:
<quoted text>
You don't just want creationism presented. You want it presented as science. It doesn't meet that definition. Period. They can teach it in religion class. Sure.
I make sure my kids know about it and teach them to respect the beliefs of those other children.
You sound like a HIGHLY responsible parent. Your kids are lucky.

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