Gay group calls for apology from Scottish cardinal

Mar 4, 2013 Full story: Bellingham Herald 16

Cardinal Keith O'Brien resigned last week as Britain's top Roman Catholic cleric after being accused of inappropriate behavior by three priests and a former priest.

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Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#1 Mar 4, 2013
Don't hold your breath.
Equality---

Aberdeen, UK

#2 Mar 4, 2013
snyper wrote:
Don't hold your breath.
Yes, he should be man enough to apologise for his recent hypocritical remarks about homosexuals.
He has already asked for forgiveness for offending any-one, from his past maybe this is it?

God has given all human beings, the some-times powerful urge to engage in appropriate consentual sexual acts with there adult fellow beings, whether it is man and woman, man and man or woman and woman. What is the Catholics church problem with celebiacy?
As a Catholic, in my opinion, this non sexual strict diet, is cruel and not necessary.
Cardinal O, Brien, apart from his hypocritical statement about homosexuals, which he had to be seen to be denouncing, apparently he was very good at his job, and now because of his past so-called human weaknesses his life is in tatters.

Shame really!!!

Jason

New York, NY

#3 Mar 4, 2013
snyper wrote:
Don't hold your breath.
Feel sorry for him. Grew up in a different time. Spent the past 60 years demonizing himself for who he was, and couldn’t deal with it. Sure that somehow his twisted psyche felt that denying his own urges would somehow make them go away Face it, he was 14 in 1953. Probably became a priest precisely because he had his “urges”, and thought turning to God would “save” him. In 1953, had he been “caught” with another man, he could have gone to jail in Britain. Can’t imagine the poor guys humiliation, depression, and angst at having been finally outed. As a gay Christian, I think the Christian thing to do is to forgive him, and give him solace, not complain and demand an apology. Jesus would forgive him and love him, not condemn him.

“Luke laughs at hypocrites!”

Since: Sep 10

Palm Springs, California

#4 Mar 4, 2013
Jason wrote:
<quoted text>
Feel sorry for him. Grew up in a different time. Spent the past 60 years demonizing himself for who he was, and couldn’t deal with it. Sure that somehow his twisted psyche felt that denying his own urges would somehow make them go away Face it, he was 14 in 1953. Probably became a priest precisely because he had his “urges”, and thought turning to God would “save” him. In 1953, had he been “caught” with another man, he could have gone to jail in Britain. Can’t imagine the poor guys humiliation, depression, and angst at having been finally outed. As a gay Christian, I think the Christian thing to do is to forgive him, and give him solace, not complain and demand an apology. Jesus would forgive him and love him, not condemn him.
What a sweet natured post! I love it when the occasional Christian signs on here and actually PRACTICES what his religion preaches. Good for you!

I agree. I have known several guys who went to religious seminaries with the intent of becoming a priest. One got as far as his final vows and realized it was not to be and was left to exit the open door like Audrey Hepburn in "The Nun's Story". All these guys were gay and fighting against their true selves and thought celibacy was the way. it won't work. You can pray your knees off and it won't work. God does NOT make mistakes.

HE'S in charge of everything. Why would He let some of the flock go gay unless He wanted it to be?

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#5 Mar 4, 2013
Jason wrote:
<quoted text>
Feel sorry for him. Grew up in a different time. Spent the past 60 years demonizing himself for who he was, and couldn’t deal with it. Sure that somehow his twisted psyche felt that denying his own urges would somehow make them go away Face it, he was 14 in 1953. Probably became a priest precisely because he had his “urges”, and thought turning to God would “save” him. In 1953, had he been “caught” with another man, he could have gone to jail in Britain. Can’t imagine the poor guys humiliation, depression, and angst at having been finally outed. As a gay Christian, I think the Christian thing to do is to forgive him, and give him solace, not complain and demand an apology. Jesus would forgive him and love him, not condemn him.
I am 12yrs older than he is AND I also grew up in the Roman Catholic Church.

I left and went through much inner turmoil in the process of disconnecting from it's fogged teachings.

I don't condemn him. I understand him far better than most of his critics inside and outside of the RCC.

“Equality First”

Since: Jan 09

St. Louis, MO

#6 Mar 4, 2013
I grew up in the Lutheran Church Missouri Synod. I, too, considered the ministry. And, as in Britain, Missouri had a law that said if I went to bed with a man, I could be jailed. I decided, instead, to come out to my family and close friends. My family was supportive, my "friends", mot so much. I chose my life, and the Cardinal chose his. I suffered both physically and emotionally. I over came it all. Now the Cardinal can do his suffering, and perhaps it will lead him to a true Christian life, which is contrary to what he has been living.
I can read

Edinburgh, UK

#7 Mar 4, 2013
Jason wrote:
<quoted text>
Feel sorry for him. Grew up in a different time. Spent the past 60 years demonizing himself for who he was, and couldn’t deal with it. Sure that somehow his twisted psyche felt that denying his own urges would somehow make them go away Face it, he was 14 in 1953. Probably became a priest precisely because he had his “urges”, and thought turning to God would “save” him. In 1953, had he been “caught” with another man, he could have gone to jail in Britain. Can’t imagine the poor guys humiliation, depression, and angst at having been finally outed. As a gay Christian, I think the Christian thing to do is to forgive him, and give him solace, not complain and demand an apology. Jesus would forgive him and love him, not condemn him.
You're clearly a lot more forgiving than he is.

You have nothing to appologise for yet he chose to demonise you anyway.

He on the other hand does have things to appologise for and so far has chosen not to.

So if a random guy on the internet is more christian than the highest echelons of the catholic church, what is the point of the catholic church?
Jason

New York, NY

#8 Mar 4, 2013
RalphB wrote:
I grew up in the Lutheran Church Missouri Synod. I, too, considered the ministry. And, as in Britain, Missouri had a law that said if I went to bed with a man, I could be jailed. I decided, instead, to come out to my family and close friends. My family was supportive, my "friends", mot so much. I chose my life, and the Cardinal chose his. I suffered both physically and emotionally. I over came it all. Now the Cardinal can do his suffering, and perhaps it will lead him to a true Christian life, which is contrary to what he has been living.
I suspect the Cardinal (ex-cardinal BTW), has done his fair share of suffering through the years already. No one can speak for another’s mind, however I can easily see a devout gay man in the 1950’s finding his urges to be horrific (and sinful), and with the church dogma, believe that his “sin” could be changed by God.“Hate the sin, love the sinner” is part of that dogma. That said, I’m not condoning what he said all these years, merely trying to understand. Thankfully, the world has changed at warp speed the past 20 years, and a young devout Scot today certainly has more options, and less hatred to face than he did. I do give him credit for admitting what he did, and apologizing for it. He certainly could have continued denial. Sadly, I would not be surprised to hear this entire sad story ends in suicide.

“Equality First”

Since: Jan 09

St. Louis, MO

#9 Mar 4, 2013
Jason wrote:
<quoted text>
I suspect the Cardinal (ex-cardinal BTW), has done his fair share of suffering through the years already. No one can speak for another’s mind, however I can easily see a devout gay man in the 1950’s finding his urges to be horrific (and sinful), and with the church dogma, believe that his “sin” could be changed by God.“Hate the sin, love the sinner” is part of that dogma. That said, I’m not condoning what he said all these years, merely trying to understand. Thankfully, the world has changed at warp speed the past 20 years, and a young devout Scot today certainly has more options, and less hatred to face than he did. I do give him credit for admitting what he did, and apologizing for it. He certainly could have continued denial. Sadly, I would not be surprised to hear this entire sad story ends in suicide.
I appreciate your honesty. I wish I could be as forgiving. I cannot at this point. Perhaps if he were to actively work to alleviate some of the harm he has done. I don't see it at this point.

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#10 Mar 4, 2013
I can read wrote:
<quoted text>
You're clearly a lot more forgiving than he is.
You have nothing to appologise for yet he chose to demonise you anyway.
He on the other hand does have things to appologise for and so far has chosen not to.
So if a random guy on the internet is more christian than the highest echelons of the catholic church, what is the point of the catholic church?
excellent and pellucid
Jason

New York, NY

#11 Mar 4, 2013
RalphB wrote:
<quoted text>
I also appreciate your honesty. I wish I could be as forgiving. I cannot at this point. Perhaps if he were to actively work to alleviate some of the harm he has done. I don't see it at this point.
Well Ralph, I can certainly understand your reaction. I too finally had my “epiphany” in the 80’s, when I decided I couldn’t like myself unless I was honest with both myself and all who knew me. It was the best decision I ever made, even though some turned their backs completely on me.(A couple of which I wish were naked, when they turned their backs HAHA). Seriously, I just can’t bring myself to judge the actions of others, partially because I was so hurt by those that judged me (unfairly) for being who I was. Straights will never understand the pain and despair almost all of us felt in the “early” days. So when did you come out, and how old are you now?

“Equality First”

Since: Jan 09

St. Louis, MO

#12 Mar 4, 2013
Jason wrote:
<quoted text> Well Ralph, I can certainly understand your reaction. I too finally had my “epiphany” in the 80’s, when I decided I couldn’t like myself unless I was honest with both myself and all who knew me. It was the best decision I ever made, even though some turned their backs completely on me.(A couple of which I wish were naked, when they turned their backs HAHA). Seriously, I just can’t bring myself to judge the actions of others, partially because I was so hurt by those that judged me (unfairly) for being who I was. Straights will never understand the pain and despair almost all of us felt in the “early” days. So when did you come out, and how old are you now?
Move your coming out back 25 to 30 years, any you have my life. I came out in 1959. Best and worst decision I ever made.

“Luke laughs at hypocrites!”

Since: Sep 10

Palm Springs, California

#13 Mar 4, 2013
RalphB wrote:
<quoted text>
Move your coming out back 25 to 30 years, any you have my life. I came out in 1959. Best and worst decision I ever made.
Good God, Ralph. I cannot even imagine. I came out in 1971 and it was tough enough then, when Glitter Rock was hot and David Bowie was breaking barriers. Your coming out in the bad old days. pre Kennedy and civil rights? Incredible.
The Oracle

UK

#14 Mar 4, 2013
It's official. He's gone. Left Scotland and the UK. Maybe he's moving in with Benny.

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#15 Mar 4, 2013
O'Brien has just taken a spear as a diversion for the team.

“Equality First”

Since: Jan 09

St. Louis, MO

#16 Mar 4, 2013
Curteese wrote:
<quoted text>Good God, Ralph. I cannot even imagine. I came out in 1971 and it was tough enough then, when Glitter Rock was hot and David Bowie was breaking barriers. Your coming out in the bad old days. pre Kennedy and civil rights? Incredible.
Incredible? Well, that's one word. Terrifying is what I experienced. That and the loss of all but one friend. He died a few years ago, sad to say. He was straight as a newly milled board, and as stalwart a friend as anyone ever had. I suffered 3 gay-bashngs, one leaving me with a life-long problem, and ridicule in my neighborhood you would not believe. I lived through it all, and found the love of my life. Well worth the sacrifice. Now I am loved, and love another. What more could a poor gay boy want?

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