Episcopal Drama Rocks SC

Oct 17, 2012 Full story: FITSNews 1,813

The national Episcopal church has advised South Carolina Bishop Mark Lawrence that he has "abandoned" the church as a result of his refusal to accept its teachings on gay marriage and the ordination of gay and female clergy.

Full Story
Benjamyn Smythe

Columbia, SC

#1007 Jan 18, 2013
RevKen wrote:
<quoted text>
Dear Droppin' In,
I agree, regarding Saul and scripture. Another poster here, Snyper, often provides a similar view.
I could not understand your sentence regarding "Imprimatur" and the creation of people to be "gay."
Please restate and elaborate.
Rev. Ken
Even a make-believe "reverend" living in the shadows, "location hidden" should recognize the scent of Catholic dogma. "Droppin In" is begging the question of whether or not Paul was maintaining that G_d had created HOMOSEXUALS (I don't by the Gay lie.)

Saul of Tarsus or Paul the Apostle, was stating in Romans that because of the "hardness of their hearts" through "lusts of the flesh" HOMOSEXUALS had rejected G_d and G_d gave them over to their own lusts. There is no mention of children in the text so this is merely a snare to belie the question.

II Peter 3: "The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance."

Peter als goes on to warn:

15 "And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; 16As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction. 17Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness. 18But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen."

Jesus did not come to die on the cross so that unstable, decceitful men may claim salvation from their sins while remain in them. Christ calls us to come to him and die to your sins. Living as a Christian and living as a HOMOSEXUAL are mutually exclusive.

“Plays well with others.”

Since: Jun 07

LIVING WELL*THE BEST REVENGE

#1008 Jan 18, 2013
Benjamyn Smythe wrote:
<quoted text>
Even a make-believe "reverend" living in the shadows, "location hidden" should recognize the scent of Catholic dogma. "Droppin In" is begging the question of whether or not Paul was maintaining that G_d had created HOMOSEXUALS (I don't by the Gay lie.)
Saul of Tarsus or Paul the Apostle, was stating in Romans that because of the "hardness of their hearts" through "lusts of the flesh" HOMOSEXUALS had rejected G_d and G_d gave them over to their own lusts. There is no mention of children in the text so this is merely a snare to belie the question.
II Peter 3: "The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance."
Peter als goes on to warn:
15 "And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; 16As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction. 17Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness. 18But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen."
Jesus did not come to die on the cross so that unstable, decceitful men may claim salvation from their sins while remain in them. Christ calls us to come to him and die to your sins. Living as a Christian and living as a HOMOSEXUAL are mutually exclusive.
Just because YOU don't know who he is...he is a VERY real person. And a very real pastor.

“The Kingdom of God Begins NOW!”

Since: May 07

The Mountain Empire

#1009 Jan 18, 2013
Back to the subject:

"Unfortunately, I have seen more up close and personal than I would like the realities of the situation. This is not a theological “thing” with them. It is a power and control issue for them centering around an attitude that the church must be run by white males who are (at least allegedly) straight. I’ve witnessed their lack of respect for women clergy – and yes I know they do have some and I fear for their emotional safety. They are not actually interested in any form of reconciliation or meeting of the minds or even mutual accommodation that involves folks with whom they do not agree. Time and again they were told that they had a place at the table and it would be kept open for them. They made the decision not to sit at the table. And I am referring to more than just the empty table at Province IV Synods where a place was reserved for the Diocese of South Carolina. Attempts were made at numerous levels to reach some form of agreement but it was only acceptable to them on their own terms and not any that involved give and take or that remotely looked like reconciliation. The attitude is that “we have all the right answers and we will not budge from our position.”

It is always sad when people decide to leave. But remember, people may leave any time they wish. They may not take property and assets with them, even if they are bishop or priest or chair of a standing committee. The property and assets belong to a common ownership under the flag of The Episcopal Church.

If this really was an action based on theology, why would they not just walk away and start an “Anglican” church somewhere else? If it wasn’t about power and control, the property and assets would not matter. The atmosphere of tightly controlling information that goes out is just another way of exercising control. The same situation was prevelant in all of the other dioceses where the leadership decided to leave and try to take what was not theirs to take.

I think many fail to recognize what is really behind the situation in South Carolina….and it was no different than the situations in Pittsburg, San Joaquin, Ft. Worth, Quincy and other places who claimed a similar position. I learned more than I ever wanted to know during my tenure on Executive Council when we had to deal with the aftermath.

We can be together if we want to be together. We can sit at the same table if we want to sit at the same table. Some of us continue to save seats at the table….but our very presence keeps others from sitting down. Is there anything theological or Biblical about that? I can’t find it. The closest I can see in a comparable situation was when people of color sat at tables and lunch room counters and white folks got up and left. Funny how both happened in similar places.

The reality is that the Diocese of South Carolina violated the Canons and Constitution they had vowed to uphold when they removed references to the Episcopal Church from their own canons and constitution. Mark Lawrence abandoned the communion and effectively renounced his vows as a bishop in TEC by his own words and statements. No one forced those words from his mouth or from his pen (computer). It was his choice and he made it. Now he has to live with the consequences. I wish those who followed him well. They are all still my brothers and sisters in Christ. They are welcome in my home AND in my parish….even though the reciprocal is not true."

http://episcopaldigitalnetwork.com/ens/2013/0...

Brilliant!

“The Kingdom of God Begins NOW!”

Since: May 07

The Mountain Empire

#1010 Jan 18, 2013
Also:

"It is so sad that this all came about. I’m currently on my 3d tour on Standing Committee of our Diocese in Central PA.(I’ll be 80 by the time my tour is up!) We had our doubts about Mark Lawrence when he was first put forth to be Bishop of SC. However, his comments and remarks were overly nuanced and we were aware of anecdotal information for some time that the Standing Committee of SC was searching for someone to lead them out of ECUSA. The second go-round the followng year resulted in a split vote (consents among us just made the majority required) and was based on assurances to our Bishop by then Fr. Lawrence that it was not his intent to lead the diocese out of ECUSA. I see no grace in all of this rancor precipitated by Diocese of SC except that we must be assured that the Holy Spirit is leading us in these matters (even though it might appear He/She may be perceived to speak differently to different parties). It just seems to run against the Anglican ethos of one big umbrella embracing the spectrum of conservatives to progressives alike; we all come to the Table as one. It should be noted that Christianity over the centuries indeed has a progressive bent and we are not all “Luddites”, if you will. Godspeed to continuing Diocese of SC."

http://episcopaldigitalnetwork.com/ens/2013/0...
Benjamyn Smythe

Columbia, SC

#1011 Jan 18, 2013
Selecia Jones- JAX FL wrote:
<quoted text>Just because YOU don't know who he is...he is a VERY real person. And a very real pastor.
Oh, you mean the "blind" leading the "blind?" I'm not impressed or enthralled at all. It's all just show, no substance.

ELDER and APOSTLE BENJAMYN! LOL!
Entymology Check

Alpharetta, GA

#1012 Jan 18, 2013
Benjamyn Smythe wrote:
<quoted text>
Even a make-believe "reverend" living in the shadows, "location hidden" should recognize the scent of Catholic dogma. "Droppin In" is begging the question of whether or not Paul was maintaining that G_d had created HOMOSEXUALS (I don't by the Gay lie.)
Saul of Tarsus or Paul the Apostle, was stating in Romans that because of the "hardness of their hearts" through "lusts of the flesh" HOMOSEXUALS had rejected G_d and G_d gave them over to their own lusts. There is no mention of children in the text so this is merely a snare to belie the question.
II Peter 3: "The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance."
Peter als goes on to warn:
15 "And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; 16As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction. 17Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness. 18But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen."
Jesus did not come to die on the cross so that unstable, decceitful men may claim salvation from their sins while remain in them. Christ calls us to come to him and die to your sins. Living as a Christian and living as a HOMOSEXUAL are mutually exclusive.
'homosexual' does not appear anywhere between the covers of the Authorized King James Bible
.
The telltale sign of a fake 'bible' is to determine if it is copyrighted 1952 or later
.
If so; then your 'bible' has been rewritten by the fundies and is not GOD's Holy Word
George

Jacksonville, FL

#1013 Jan 18, 2013
Selecia Jones- JAX FL wrote:
<quoted text>Just because YOU don't know who he is...he is a VERY real person. And a very real pastor.
Maybe in your dreams he is, just not in this world.
Benjamyn Smythe

Columbia, SC

#1015 Jan 18, 2013
Entymology Check wrote:
<quoted text>
'homosexual' does not appear anywhere between the covers of the Authorized King James Bible
.
The telltale sign of a fake 'bible' is to determine if it is copyrighted 1952 or later
.
If so; then your 'bible' has been rewritten by the fundies and is not GOD's Holy Word
Does your mommy write these silly post? The Scripture was never copywrited? What a bunch drivel from the SKID in GA. This is a no troll area!

“Plays well with others.”

Since: Jun 07

LIVING WELL*THE BEST REVENGE

#1016 Jan 18, 2013
George wrote:
<quoted text>
Maybe in your dreams he is, just not in this world.
But I don't know who YOU are George...I am so very good at playing this game. Some people do crossword puzzles, others cards or chess. For my fun, I figure out the TRUE IDENTITY of Topix Posters. How do you think we now know who DAVID MOORE of Pekin, Ill is? Yep...I busted that troll wide open. There have been SEVERAL.

Now while the good Rev. contacted me and I do know his TRUE identity, it is not at all necessary to divulge that information here.

But as for you my friend, I need a good SAFARI HUNT....and I enjoy them so. I SHOULD have been a private eye.

So as they say in street hockey games when the car passes by...GAME ON!!!!!

“... truth will out.”

Since: May 08

Stratford, Connecticut.

#1017 Jan 18, 2013
Selecia Jones- JAX FL wrote:
<quoted text>Changing headlines and changing the direct posts of others. You do it all the times.
Like a dog to its vomit, you go right back to your lies and still have the nerve to call yourself a Christian because you're a member of so many so called "Christian" organizations.

Real Daughters of the King don't resort to lies, but "You do it all the times".

“ reality, what a concept”

Since: Nov 07

this one

#1018 Jan 18, 2013
Phil McGroen wrote:
Awll, You mean the bible is a hissy fit?
Dear, as far as I know, all Bibles are inanimate objects, they are therefore rather incapable of independent actions, such as throwing a hissy fit. The hissy fit was yours, hon, not the Bible's. You were spewing scripture at me, not it. It just laid there and let you torture the heck out of it in your ugly childish tizzy. The Bible ain't to blame for your behavior here sweetie, you are.
Phil McGroen wrote:
Poor fool of the flesh! When will you learn how absolutely feeble it is? HIV/AIDS?
That's awfully Christlike of you buttercup, but I'm going to have to disappoint you, by letting you know that we probably share about the same risk of contracting HIV/AIDS.
Phil McGroen wrote:
Whose amusing who? LOL!
I still find you really funny in your own sadly warped way. Why do you imagine I keep provoking you?
Phil McGroen wrote:
You really have not defense.
Don't need one sweetie, especially not against you and that thing you want me to call God because you do. Ha.
Rainbow Kid

Alpharetta, GA

#1019 Jan 18, 2013
Ron wrote:
<quoted text>EVERY Bible translation, ancient Bible text, and Judeo-Christian tradition supports the Bible's many commands against all sex acts between people of the same gender. When an English word was coined is irrelevant. n
Oh blah!
.
You can't even read Olde English
.
If you like juicy sex acts; practice on this one
.
++++++++++
1 Samuel 18 :1> And it came to passe when hee made an ende of speaking vnto Saul, that the soule of Ionathan was knit with the soule of Dauid, and Ionathan loued him as his owne soule.
.
1 Samuel 18:3> Then Ionathan and Dauid made a couenant, because he loued him as his owne soule.
.
1 Samuel 18:4> And Ionathan stript himselfe of the robe that was vpon him, and gaue it to Dauid, and his garments, euen to his sword, and to his bow, and to his girdle.
.
1 Samuel 20:41> And assoone as the ladde was gone, Dauid arose out of a place toward the South, and fell on his face to the ground, and bowed himselfe three times: and they kissed one another, and wept one with another, vntill Dauid exceeded.
.
1 Samuel 20:42> And Ionathan said to Dauid, Goe in peace, forasmuch as wee haue sworne both of vs in the Name of the Lord, saying; The Lord be betweene me and thee, and betweene my seede and thy seede for euer. And hee arose, and departed: and Ionathan went into the citie.
.
2 Samuel 1:25> How are the mightie fallen in the midst of the battell! O Ionathan, thou wast slaine in thine high places.
.
2 Samuel 1:26> I am distressed for thee, my brother Ionathan, very pleasant hast thou beene vnto mee: thy loue to mee was wonderfull, passing the loue of women.
++++++++++

“Plays well with others.”

Since: Jun 07

LIVING WELL*THE BEST REVENGE

#1020 Jan 18, 2013
Joe DeCaro wrote:
<quoted text>
Like a dog to its vomit, you go right back to your lies and still have the nerve to call yourself a Christian because you're a member of so many so called "Christian" organizations.
Real Daughters of the King don't resort to lies, but "You do it all the times".
You change headlines as well as my quotes. You do it to anyone with whom you disagree. You are a coward. That is so much worse than a liar.
Rainbow Kid

Alpharetta, GA

#1021 Jan 18, 2013
Benjamyn Smythe wrote:
<quoted text>
Does your mommy write these silly post? The Scripture was never copywrited? What a bunch drivel from the SKID in GA. This is a no troll area!
There is only one GOD; and there is only one Authorized Word of God
.
GOD never copyrighted The Authorized Word of GOD; and neither can humans
.
The fundies are the ones who write their own versions and copyright them
.
There are currently about 40 different 'bibles'; each with a copyright that proves each of them is different from the rest
.
++++++++++
In 1970, I Corinthians 6:9 read as followed [sic]-

Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulteres [sic], nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind.

In 1982 ,the same scripture read like this-

Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived, neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodimites [sic].

In 2001 the same scripture reads like this-

Surely you know that the people who do wrong will not inherit God’s kingdom. Do not be fooled, those who sin sexually, worship idols, take part in adultery, those who are male prostitutes, or men who have sexual relations with other men, those who steal, are greedy, get drunk, lie about others, or rob thses [sic] people will not inherit God’s kingdom.
++++++++++
http://www.wnd.com/2009/09/109356/

“... truth will out.”

Since: May 08

Stratford, Connecticut.

#1022 Jan 19, 2013
Selecia Jones- JAX FL wrote:
<quoted text>
You change headlines as well as my quotes ...
You have again forgotten what ellipsis are and headlines are the prerogative of the lay out editor: only the writer's text is copywrighted.

“... truth will out.”

Since: May 08

Stratford, Connecticut.

#1023 Jan 19, 2013
Rainbow Kid wrote:
<quoted text>
Oh blah!
.
You can't even read Olde English
.
If you like juicy sex acts ...
... then you're barking up the wrong tree.

According to (retired) Rabbi Israel Stein:

1 Sam 18:4: the Hebrew “arum” or naked does not appear in the text; if Jonathan was naked, the Hebrew would definitively say so.

1 Sam 20: 41-42: David “exceeded uncontrollably” refers to weeping; they were crying, and their friendship was pledged to last even unto the lives of their respective children (seed).

Spilling seed w/o any procreation breaks the commandment to be fruitful and multiply; being gay also negates this commandment, hence the prohibition in Lev 18: 22.

David was unabashedly heterosexual in his pursuit of Bathsheba; David was accused by the prophet Nathan of both murder and adultery, but never homosexuality.

The Bible paints saints warts and all, so why would it hide a homosexual relationship between David and Jonathan? Then again, for some, why is every relationship between 2 men or 2 women always sexual?

“People with an agenda say what they want to say, but opinions should be based on fact, not an agenda,” said Stein.

“ reality, what a concept”

Since: Nov 07

this one

#1024 Jan 19, 2013
Joe DeCaro wrote:
<quoted text>
... then you're barking up the wrong tree.
According to (retired) Rabbi Israel Stein:
Sweetie, you've been doing so much better here the last few days, you hadn't pulled out your Rabbi puppet to convey your thoughts once and here you go swan diving off the wagon. Why would you want to do this when we all know that the actual and only source for your "My Rabbi Says" quotes is in fact you yourself? If you want your ideas discussed, put the damn puppet back in its box.
Phil McGroen

Columbia, SC

#1025 Jan 19, 2013
Rick in Kansas wrote:
<quoted text>Sweetie, you've been doing so much better here the last few days, you hadn't pulled out your Rabbi puppet to convey your thoughts once and here you go swan diving off the wagon. Why would you want to do this when we all know that the actual and only source for your "My Rabbi Says" quotes is in fact you yourself? If you want your ideas discussed, put the damn puppet back in its box.
It does seem a little silly to have a Rabbi interpret the original Hebrew, given that the KJV (most commonly used) does the same. At that point it becomes more conjecture and argumentation over "original intent" rather than illumination. Then again it might be my Sadducee Rabbi can beat up your Pharisee Rabbi? What's the point?

The Scripture of the Old Testament has numerous examples and edicts against sexual "filth of the flesh" sins. If the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah in Genesis 19 or the destruction of the majority of Benjamin for the sin of sodomy mentioned in Judges 19-21 are enough to convince the obstinate skeptic then they are merely in denial or blinded by their own sins.

Jesus did not have to condemn "sodomy" or HOMOSEXUALITY because he knew the law and knew that it was an abomination. The Christian writers also made condemnation of the practice which was common in Rome. Christians knew that "fleshly lusts" were enemy of the soul.

It is true that God loves us everyone. He, is however a God of "equity and judgment," a point that is lost on most so called "reverends," "pastors," "false prophets," “merchandisers of Christians,” and sundry apostates.

Jesus came to save us from our sins, not to ENABLE THEM. To say otherwise is to blaspheme his sacrifice and abhor his Deity.
Phil McGroen

Columbia, SC

#1026 Jan 19, 2013
Rainbow Kid wrote:
<quoted text>
There is only one GOD; and there is only one Authorized Word of God
.
GOD never copyrighted The Authorized Word of GOD; and neither can humans
.
The fundies are the ones who write their own versions and copyright them
.
There are currently about 40 different 'bibles'; each with a copyright that proves each of them is different from the rest
.
++++++++++
In 1970, I Corinthians 6:9 read as followed [sic]-
Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulteres [sic], nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind.
In 1982 ,the same scripture read like this-
Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived, neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodimites [sic].
In 2001 the same scripture reads like this-
Surely you know that the people who do wrong will not inherit God’s kingdom. Do not be fooled, those who sin sexually, worship idols, take part in adultery, those who are male prostitutes, or men who have sexual relations with other men, those who steal, are greedy, get drunk, lie about others, or rob thses [sic] people will not inherit God’s kingdom.
++++++++++
http://www.wnd.com/2009/09/109356/
What's your point? Are you a copywrite Lawyer now? While the World tries to dilute the Scripture to make HOMOSEXUALITY more palatable to an more evil and scripturally more ignorante audience, the fact remains that HOMOSEXUALITY is a sin that will preclude the practitioner from a relationship with God and eternal damnation. It's not an opinion it's merely the facts presented in scripture.

God is not and ENABLER of SIN or a Sucker either {pardon the pun!" LOL though it is funny!
Fitz

Roseville, MI

#1027 Jan 19, 2013
Phil McGroen wrote:
<quoted text>
What's your point? Are you a copywrite Lawyer now? While the World tries to dilute the Scripture to make HOMOSEXUALITY more palatable to an more evil and scripturally more ignorante audience, the fact remains that HOMOSEXUALITY is a sin that will preclude the practitioner from a relationship with God and eternal damnation. It's not an opinion it's merely the facts presented in scripture.
God is not and ENABLER of SIN or a Sucker either {pardon the pun!" LOL though it is funny!
They just dont do it themselves they encourage it in others.

Only the gay mind could take something as clear and plain as scripture on this subject and pretend it dosent condemn what it so clearly does.

The funny part is that the true intellects within the leftist Church like the episcopalians dont even attempt to defend these types of revisionist "theology"...they simply state that scripture is wrong on this subject and that they are "doing a new thing"..

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