Boy Scouts proposing to lift gay ban ...

Boy Scouts proposing to lift gay ban for youth

There are 55 comments on the KNUS-AM Aurora story from Apr 19, 2013, titled Boy Scouts proposing to lift gay ban for youth. In it, KNUS-AM Aurora reports that:

Under pressure over its long-standing ban on gays, the Boys Scouts of America is proposing to lift the ban for youth members but continue to exclude gays as adult leaders.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at KNUS-AM Aurora.

“ WOOF ! ”

Since: Nov 12

Coolidge, AZ

#22 Apr 19, 2013
equalityboy81 wrote:
<quoted text>
Hopefully by the time the boys grow into adults our country will no longer have an issue with gays and they'll finally stop putting gays in the same category as child molesters.
Yeah. That'll happen when they roll out the flying cars that they promised us in 1947 were "just around the corner".

(and commercial fusion power is ALWAYS "just 30 years away").

Since: Dec 08

Toronto, ON, Canada

#23 Apr 20, 2013
But I'll bet they still won't let atheists in! As if religion proved that someone was a decent person.

As we know from the trolls on here:

NOT!
BS Detector

Los Angeles, CA

#24 Apr 20, 2013
Petulance and tantrums generally backfire and make the petulants and tantrum throwers look foolish. And while an incremental approach might not be optimal, it might be the most effective. Then the usual suspects have to decide if they want to accomplish a goal or simply stamp their little feet.

I can't speak for the usual suspects as to their true motivations or what they really want to accomplish.
redbird

Dallas, TX

#25 Apr 20, 2013
JohnInToronto wrote:
But I'll bet they still won't let atheists in! As if religion proved that someone was a decent person.
As we know from the trolls on here:
NOT!
Atheists don't blow up buildings.

“ reality, what a concept”

Since: Nov 07

this one

#26 Apr 20, 2013
This isn't a compromise, it's a sell out. Their new message is even more offensive than the old one.
Roland

Ã…kersberga, Sweden

#27 Apr 20, 2013
Way to go Boy Scouts!

Keep queers away from boys!
BS Detector

Los Angeles, CA

#28 Apr 20, 2013
Rick in Kansas wrote:
This isn't a compromise, it's a sell out. Their new message is even more offensive than the old one.
Are you one of the petulant tantrum types I spoke of above? Or would you actually like to make progress?

This is an actual request for information.

“ WOOF ! ”

Since: Nov 12

Coolidge, AZ

#29 Apr 21, 2013
Rick in Kansas wrote:
This isn't a compromise, it's a sell out. Their new message is even more offensive than the old one.
I agree.
BS Detector

Los Angeles, CA

#30 Apr 21, 2013
Fa-Foxy wrote:
<quoted text>
I agree.
I don't. But nothing requires that you agree with me. Certainly not I.

They are a PRIVATE organization. You don't have to like them, you don't have to support them, and you don't have to join them. They also do some good work despite their stupid policy.

True, you don't have to accomplish anything. Hmmm... Petulance, or accomplishing something incrementally and then, by example, SHOWING how stupid their policy is, and how the world doesn't come to an end simply by allowing gay boys (and soon adults). Not as dramatic, hysterical or flamboyant, of course. Just effective.

Your call, though.
Dubya

Roanoke, VA

#31 Apr 21, 2013
JohnInToronto wrote:
But I'll bet they still won't let atheists in! As if religion proved that someone was a decent person.
As we know from the trolls on here:
NOT!
Adolph Hitler considered himself a good Catholic all the way to the end. Why am I not surprised?

“Together for 24, legal for 5”

Since: Sep 07

Littleton, NH

#32 Apr 21, 2013
Rick in Kansas wrote:
This isn't a compromise, it's a sell out. Their new message is even more offensive than the old one.
I've got to agree with BSD on this one. A more-open environment for gay scouts means the next generation of leaders will be perfectly comfortable with the idea that gays are around in intimate quarters--and they know it.

More importantly, Scouts is about the scouts themselves, not the leaders. Stories like the denial of Eagle status to good scouts who happen to be gay--and who probably had no realization that they were gay when they joined--must end.

Of course, it will be better for the scouts to have open service for leaders, too. But the first step is always the most important. And this would be a big one!
BS Detector

Los Angeles, CA

#33 Apr 21, 2013
nhjeff wrote:
<quoted text>
I've got to agree with BSD on this one. A more-open environment for gay scouts means the next generation of leaders will be perfectly comfortable with the idea that gays are around in intimate quarters--and they know it.
More importantly, Scouts is about the scouts themselves, not the leaders. Stories like the denial of Eagle status to good scouts who happen to be gay--and who probably had no realization that they were gay when they joined--must end.
Of course, it will be better for the scouts to have open service for leaders, too. But the first step is always the most important. And this would be a big one!
THANK YOU! Also an excellent point that Scouts are the focus of the organization.

Weren't the impressive and courageous actions of some Scouts themselves instrumental in bringing about the change by the organization?

“ reality, what a concept”

Since: Nov 07

this one

#34 Apr 22, 2013
nhjeff wrote:
I've got to agree with BSD on this one. A more-open environment for gay scouts means the next generation of leaders will be perfectly comfortable with the idea that gays are around in intimate quarters--and they know it.
More importantly, Scouts is about the scouts themselves, not the leaders. Stories like the denial of Eagle status to good scouts who happen to be gay--and who probably had no realization that they were gay when they joined--must end.
Of course, it will be better for the scouts to have open service for leaders, too. But the first step is always the most important. And this would be a big one!
So for the next few years we let teach these boys that it's okay to be gay while you're young, but if you stay that way, you're out and while we're at it, you might as well know that your ONLY acceptable role models are heterosexual. No.

In order for scouting to be about the scouts, it needs good leadership. This half-assed, half-step isn't about or for the scouts, it's about and for its leadership. We pat the BSA on the back for its whatever, while giving the finger to all those lesbian and gay parents that we have been reading about, who got involved in scouting for their straight children, only to get booted out. We'll come back, we promise, but for right now, you're still unworthy, but we're okay with that.

Their message goes from gay is not okay, ever, to gay is not entirely not okay, but only as long as you aren't an adult. Whoopie! The new message is that it's hopefully just a phase, you'll get over it, if you don't, it's not okay, ever. Ah, progress.

“Together for 24, legal for 5”

Since: Sep 07

Littleton, NH

#35 Apr 22, 2013
Rick in Kansas wrote:
<quoted text>So for the next few years we let teach these boys that it's okay to be gay while you're young, but if you stay that way, you're out and while we're at it, you might as well know that your ONLY acceptable role models are heterosexual. No.
In order for scouting to be about the scouts, it needs good leadership. This half-assed, half-step isn't about or for the scouts, it's about and for its leadership. We pat the BSA on the back for its whatever, while giving the finger to all those lesbian and gay parents that we have been reading about, who got involved in scouting for their straight children, only to get booted out. We'll come back, we promise, but for right now, you're still unworthy, but we're okay with that.
Their message goes from gay is not okay, ever, to gay is not entirely not okay, but only as long as you aren't an adult. Whoopie! The new message is that it's hopefully just a phase, you'll get over it, if you don't, it's not okay, ever. Ah, progress.
I'm not sure we give the BSA any pats on the back, but we should acknowledge that they're taking a step in the right direction.

The end of DADT has not eliminated all the problems faced by the families of GLBT soldiers. Yet we acknowledge a huge step along the way. Just as in the military, scout leaders will no longer be forced to tell scouts coming to terms with their sexuality that they are worthless and need to hide or leave.

And just as we say thank you when we achieve civil unions in a state like Colorado, we make it clear that we will continue seeking full equality.

“ reality, what a concept”

Since: Nov 07

this one

#36 Apr 22, 2013
I don't see it as a step in the right direction, but a slap in the face of the very kids they are "welcoming". "Hi, you can stay if you want, but if you aren't over that whole gay thing by the time you hit 19, bye-bye, you'll no longer be worthy of our association."

The end of DADT created its own host of problems, but one of them, thankfully, hasn't been a requirement that you had to stop being gay if you wanted to make the military a permanent part of your life.

The difference between supporting half-steps like civil unions in Colorado and half-steps like what the Boy Scouts are trying to get away with. In Colorado, it may not be all that it should be, but everybody's rights are at least being moved forward not enough. The state constitution stands in the way of doing the right thing. The Boy Scouts aren't offering all that they should, not taking everybody along on what little of a ride they are offering (they want our boys, the adults, no way) and are manage to insult both groups along the way. The only thing standing in the way of them doing the right thing is them.

“Together for 24, legal for 5”

Since: Sep 07

Littleton, NH

#37 Apr 22, 2013
Rick in Kansas wrote:
I don't see it as a step in the right direction, but a slap in the face of the very kids they are "welcoming". "Hi, you can stay if you want, but if you aren't over that whole gay thing by the time you hit 19, bye-bye, you'll no longer be worthy of our association."
The end of DADT created its own host of problems, but one of them, thankfully, hasn't been a requirement that you had to stop being gay if you wanted to make the military a permanent part of your life.
The difference between supporting half-steps like civil unions in Colorado and half-steps like what the Boy Scouts are trying to get away with. In Colorado, it may not be all that it should be, but everybody's rights are at least being moved forward not enough. The state constitution stands in the way of doing the right thing. The Boy Scouts aren't offering all that they should, not taking everybody along on what little of a ride they are offering (they want our boys, the adults, no way) and are manage to insult both groups along the way. The only thing standing in the way of them doing the right thing is them.
Just keep in mind that the new policy is a partial surrender, but a surrender none-the-less. Surely even those who promulgate the new policy can see that it will stand for only a short time. The anti-gay are in absolute agony because they can't stand to even admit that homosexuals exist. And this new policy admits that they do.

The half-step that you are so busy decrying is a loud and clear admission of defeat. While I regret those who will continue be be wronged by the new policy, I can nevertheless be patient while the rest of the organization accepts that defeat.
BS Detector

Los Angeles, CA

#38 Apr 22, 2013
Rick in Kansas wrote:
<quoted text>So for the next few years we let teach these boys that it's okay to be gay while you're young, but if you stay that way, you're out and while we're at it, you might as well know that your ONLY acceptable role models are heterosexual. No.
No, you've taught them that things don't always change overnight, but with persistence, they do change for the better. My guess is that now that BSA has caved, accepting gay adults is not far behind. Of course, if you want to simply complain over the gains that are made, what then are you teaching the boys?

It's about the boys, not you.

“ reality, what a concept”

Since: Nov 07

this one

#39 Apr 22, 2013
nhjeff wrote:
Just keep in mind that the new policy is a partial surrender, but a surrender none-the-less. Surely even those who promulgate the new policy can see that it will stand for only a short time. The anti-gay are in absolute agony because they can't stand to even admit that homosexuals exist. And this new policy admits that they do.
The half-step that you are so busy decrying is a loud and clear admission of defeat. While I regret those who will continue be be wronged by the new policy, I can nevertheless be patient while the rest of the organization accepts that defeat.
I think the terms of their partial surrender are offensive and completely unacceptable, even if it is just "short term". They either do the right thing by reconsidering the ENTIRE policy, or they continue to suffer the consequences of exercising their right to be d*cks to the gay folk, until they do. No insulting half-assed stops in between. They admit we exist, I guess we should congratulate them, if it weren't for the fact that what they see as our existence is pretty flocking insulting.

“ reality, what a concept”

Since: Nov 07

this one

#40 Apr 22, 2013
BS Detector wrote:
No, you've taught them that things don't always change overnight, but with persistence, they do change for the better. My guess is that now that BSA has caved, accepting gay adults is not far behind. Of course, if you want to simply complain over the gains that are made, what then are you teaching the boys?
It's about the boys, not you.
There are some things that can change over night and this is one of them. The Board could grow the set necessary to to just change the damn policy and tell their locals, that as far as the organization is concerned, their rules apply to any scout and/or volunteer, regardless of their sexual orientation, period. The national association is no longer going to exercise its right to be bigoted, if there are any locals that wish to continue to do so, you will do so at your own risk.

You actually imagine this policy change as being for the better? To have young kids told that it's okay if you say you are gay now, but if you don't get over it by the time you age out, don't think of coming back to help, we don't want you, is not better than telling them they are unwanted right now. Not even in the "short term" is that acceptable.
Mr Pitt

Pittsburgh, PA

#41 Apr 22, 2013
Way to go BSA!!!

Keep queers away from boys!!!

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