Homosexuality and the Bible

Aug 15, 2011 | Posted by: Selecia Jones- JAX FL | Full story: www.smh.com.au

Given the ongoing debate about same-sex marriage, it is time I looked at the two Testaments to remind myself why belief is so hard for me to embrace.

Comments
18,761 - 18,780 of 24,890 Comments Last updated 20 min ago

“THERE IS NO GOD”

Since: Feb 09

Northern California

#20983 Oct 12, 2013
It is always interesting to note the terminology employed by Biblical apologists with respect to contradictions. They are rarely referred to as contradictions. Such words as "difficulties," "discrepancies," "detractions," and "problem," are used far more often than contradictions, fallacies, and falsehoods; an obvious attempt to minimize inconsistencies. A minor discrepancy sounds far less serious than a contradiction.

Has anyone ever seen God's face?

John 1:18 "No man hath seen God at any time;..."
Exodus 33:20, And he said, Thou canst not see my face: for there shall no man see me, and live.
John 6:46 "Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God, he hath seen the Father."
1 John 4:12 "No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us."

Versus

Gen. 32:30 "And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: for I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved."
Exod. 33:11 "And the LORD spake unto Moses face to face, as a man speaketh unto his friend."
Num. 14:14 "...that thou LORD art seen face to face,..."
Job 42:5 "I have heard of thee by the hearing of the ear: but now mine eye seeth thee."
Deut. 34:10 "And there arose not a prophet since in Israel like unto Moses, whom the LORD knew face to face,..."
Deut. 5:4 "The LORD talked with you face to face...."
(also Psalm 63:2 Isa.6:1 & 6:5, Amos 7:7-8, Ezek. 20:35, Ex 24:9-10

In April 1982 Zondervan Publishing House issued one of the most comprehensive writings in recent memory to justify Biblical fallacies. Entitled An Encyclopedia of Biblical Difficulties, the promotional campaign by "Christian Readers News" describes it as a work which "exhaustively studies every difficult passage in the Bible-Genesis to Revelation." This is erroneous as will be shown. What are Gleason Archer's explanations with respect to seeing God's face?

Archer says: "The Bible draws a clear distinction between gazing on God in his unveiled glory and beholding a representative or reflection of God..."

My Reply: The issue concerns whether or not God's face is seen, not whether his glory or a mere relection is viewed. Acher has reframed and rewritten the problem. Ex. 33:11 and Gen. 32:30 clearly say God's face was seen, not a representation.

to be continued

“THERE IS NO GOD”

Since: Feb 09

Northern California

#20984 Oct 12, 2013
continued

The Bible draws no distinction in these verses between his glory and a mere reflection. Archer has artificially created a difference which does not exist. He is trying to escape from the problem by admitting a reflection of God was seen but not his essence, his glory.

Archer continues: "John 1:18 declares, "no man has seen God at any time (that is, his full glory as Creator and Sovereign of all the universe.

My Reply: John 1:18 says nothing about "his full glory as Creator andSovereign of all the universe." There is no such proviso, noteven implicitly.

Archer then says: "We behold the face of God by faith as we look to Christ,'He who has seen Me has seen the Father.'(John 14:9) God therefore showed His face and declared His glory through His Son, who was God Incarnate."

My Reply: Yes, the Bible does say men see God through Jesus but it also says God is seen face to face. The latter is prominent also. The Bible nowhere states that one excludes the other.

Archer proceeds: "God showed His face through an angel ( as at the interview with Moses at the burning bush ( Ex. 3:2-6), or else through his glory cloud,..."

My Reply: The Bible clearly states that Moses(Ex. 33:11) and Jacob (Gen.32:30) saw God face to face, not "through an angel" or "through His glory cloud." Archer is guilty of insertionism-the unwarranted and unsubstantiated insertion of words into Biblical verses to escape contradictions or a mistake.

Archer chose a bad example from his perspective when he used Ex. 3:2-6. It says "And Moses hid his face: for he was afraid to look upon God." How then, could he have seen God's face through an angel or otherwise.

Archer adds: "We are therefore to understand that Yahweh met with Moses and talked to him in some glorious representation that fell short of a full unveiling of His face. In that sense He talked to Moses face to face..."

My Reply: Again Ex. 33:11 and Gen. 32:30 say "face to face" not "in some glorious representation that fell short of a full unveiling of His face. And finally, Archer falsely alleges that in Ex. 33:18: "Moses asked to see the very face of God."

My Reply: This verse actually states that Moses asked to see God's glory, not his face. They are not identical. God did not deny this request as verse 19 shows, but stated in verse 20 (RSV) that it would not extend to revealing His face.

“KiMare'a the Monster Mutation”

Since: Nov 10

Location hidden

#20985 Oct 12, 2013
Dusty Mangina wrote:
<quoted text>
Yeah, DH, you did give your definition.
You're powerless, here, Greggy.
Wrong Dicky.

SMirk.

“All your bullets ricochet”

Since: Jun 13

The South Pole

#20986 Oct 12, 2013
Dusty Mangina wrote:
<quoted text>
Yeah, DH, you did give your definition.
You're powerless, here, Greggy.
Yes, and that's what he can't stand.
:D

“KiMare'a the Monster Mutation”

Since: Nov 10

Location hidden

#20987 Oct 12, 2013
Rosa_Winkel wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes, and that's what he can't stand.
:D
I recognized I was powerless a long time ago.

Reality is a real bitch though, that's why we hang together.

Try it sometime Blondie, might change your hair color...

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#20988 Oct 12, 2013
SHADOW wrote:
<quoted text>
Whimperng little girl can't even re-post my post right.
How's prop 8 going for you R1?
"Should have been able to see where this was going with a queer judge in a relationship with another man making the decision.
Make ya feel proud that the only way your queer agenda gets any traction is when queers control the outcome."
So the majority of the state chose not to be over run by a bunch of queers, voted that way and a queer judge sides with the queers.
Imagine that. Problem is in a representitive republic the vote of the people is how it is done. No special classes for perverts.
It will be reversed as soon as a real president is put back in office.
It doesn't work that way R1 but thanks for sharing your hilarious delusion with us.

“All your bullets ricochet”

Since: Jun 13

The South Pole

#20989 Oct 12, 2013
KiMare wrote:
<quoted text>
I recognized I was powerless a long time ago.
Reality is a real bitch though, that's why we hang together.
Try it sometime Blondie, might change your hair color...
Is everyone in Dillsburg such a complete dill? Or is it only you?

“RAINBOW POWER!”

Since: Oct 08

I Am What I Am.

#20990 Oct 12, 2013
SHADOW wrote:
How about you taking my right to marriage away with this perverted same sex crap.
Explain how your right to marry is taken away by marriage equality.
andy belfast

UK

#20991 Oct 13, 2013
Ok havnt not trolled there this post first think am I belived in god I classified myself ased saved I talk to god everyday, I know in my heart and faith am not doing wrong love can not be wrong, when we die and go to heaven there is no gender, my spin on the bible is logical a lot of hate in the old testiment before jesus came which me he was sent to save the new test teaching a lot about good will etc , the bible at the end of the day was wrote by man, we have flaws noone is perfect we will be bias so noonw wonder there's alot of things that contradict it self ,its normal old test then jesus came and enligthen us, he teach us to love one another teach us to help one another genral moral fibre how many of you can honestly say you do that despite sexual back one,( I applogies about the grammer and spelling I am dyslectic and I havnt sleep in24 hours ). We all need to start working together rather that spend hate, its not productive, these rallys people do protesting for god, where does it say that on the bible that time could be spend helping the homeless, voluteering sucide hot lines doing gods work, listen to your heart, not your brain, I feel gods its telling me to speak to you, do you think he approves of this hate, what will you say when you get to judgement day,...... Our you spending time on this earth helping people, spending his love and kindness I know am trying my best and I know in my heart even know I have a civil partner, we help people selfish we spend gods love accept him and spend each day trying to better this world for our childen

God bless

“KiMare'a the Monster Mutation”

Since: Nov 10

Location hidden

#20992 Oct 13, 2013
Rosa_Winkel wrote:
<quoted text>
Is everyone in Dillsburg such a complete dill? Or is it only you?
No, we are all Dillsburgians here.

“KiMare'a the Monster Mutation”

Since: Nov 10

Location hidden

#20993 Oct 13, 2013
Wolfgang E B wrote:
<quoted text>
Explain how your right to marry is taken away by marriage equality.
Who is saying our right to marry is taken away?

We are saying an impostor relationship is attempting to be imposed on marriage and family, demeaning and desecrating the most important relationship in society.

How are ss couples equal to marriage?

“Busting Kimare's”

Since: Feb 13

Clitty

#20995 Oct 13, 2013
KiMare wrote:
<quoted text>
Who is saying our right to marry is taken away?
We are saying an impostor relationship is attempting to be imposed on marriage and family, demeaning and desecrating the most important relationship in society.
How are ss couples equal to marriage?
You're the minority here (we) and SS married couples ARE equal, not "imposters".

Troll on, Greggy.
SHADOW

Boerne, TX

#20996 Oct 13, 2013
Wolfgang E B wrote:
<quoted text>
Explain how your right to marry is taken away by marriage equality.
Marriage between ss just takes away from a real marriage. You pervs need to go find your own ceremony, one that is not already taken.

“THERE IS NO GOD”

Since: Feb 09

Northern California

#20997 Oct 13, 2013
Rosa_Winkel wrote:
<quoted text>
Is everyone in Dillsburg such a complete dill? Or is it only you?
It's only him.

“THERE IS NO GOD”

Since: Feb 09

Northern California

#20998 Oct 13, 2013
GOD CREATES EVIL:
"I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things" (Isa. 45:7).
"Is it not from the mouth of the Most High that good and evil come?" (Lam. 3:38).
"...that I may repent of the evil, which I purpose to do unto them because of the evil of their doings" (Jer. 26:3).
"...all the evil which I purpose to do unto them; that they may return every man from his evil way; that I may forgive their iniquity and their sin" (Jer. 36:3).
"I gave them also statutes that were not good, and judgments whereby they should not live. And I polluted them in their own gifts...." (Ezek. 20:25-26).
"For thus saith the Lord; as I have brought all this great evil upon this people, so will I bring upon them all the good that I have promised them" (Jer. 32:42).
"...shall there be evil in a city, and the Lord hath not done it?"
(Amos 3:6).

See also: Jer. 11:11, 14:16, 18:11, 19:3, 19:15, 23:12, 26:13, 26:19, 35:17, 36:31, 40:2, 42:10, 42:17, 44:2, 45:5, 49:37, 51:64, Ezek. 6:10, Micah 2:3, 1 Kings 21:29, 2 Chron. 34:24, and 2 Chron. 34:28

“THERE IS NO GOD”

Since: Feb 09

Northern California

#20999 Oct 13, 2013
EVIL COMES FROM THE LORD:
"it came to pass, when the evil spirit from God was upon Saul, that David took an harp, and played with his hand: so Saul was refreshed, and was well, and the evil spirit departed from him" (1 Sam. 16:23).
"it came to pass on the morrow, that the evil spirit from God came upon Saul...." (1 Sam. 18:10).
"the evil spirit from the Lord was upon Saul...." (1 Sam. 19:9).
"Saul's servants said unto him, Behold now, an evil spirit from God troubles thee" (1 Sam. 16:15).
"the spirit of the Lord departed from Saul, and an evil spirit from the Lord troubles him" (1 Sam. 16:14).
"...evil came down from the Lord unto the gate of Jerusalem" (Micah 1:12).
"Thus saith the Lord, Behold I will raise up evil against thee out of thine own house, and I will take thy wives before thine eyes, and give them unto thy neighbor, and he shall lie with thy wives in the sight of this sun. For thou did it secretly: but I will do this thing before all Israel, and before the sun" (2 Sam. 12:11-12).
"God sent an evil spirit between Abimelech and the men of Shechem...." (Judges 9:23).

See also: 1 Kings 14:10, 2 Kings 21:12, and Isa. 31:2.

“THERE IS NO GOD”

Since: Feb 09

Northern California

#21000 Oct 13, 2013
GOD DECEIVES:
"O Lord, thou hast deceived me, and I was deceived...." (Jer. 20:7).
"if the prophet be deceived when he hath spoken a thing, I the Lord have deceived that prophet, and I will stretch out my hand upon him, and will destroy him from the midst of my people Israel" (Ezek. 14:9).
"Ah, Lord God! Surely thou hast greatly deceived this people and Jerusalem, saying, Ye shall have peace; whereas the sword reaches unto the soul" (Jer. 4:10).
"...God sends upon them a strong delusion, to make them believe what is false, so that all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness" (2 Thess. 2:9-12).

See also: 2 Chron. 18:18-22, 1 Kings 22:20-23 and Jer. 15:18.

“THERE IS NO GOD”

Since: Feb 09

Northern California

#21001 Oct 13, 2013
GOD TELLS PEOPLE TO LIE:
"...and thou (Moses) shalt come, thou and the elders of Israel, unto the king of Egypt, and you shall say unto him, The Lord God of the Hebrews hath met with us: and now let us go, we beseech thee, three days journey into the wilderness, that we may sacrifice to the Lord our God" (Ex. 3:18) and "afterward Moses and Aaron went in, and told Pharaoh, Thus saith the Lord God of Israel, Let my people go, that they may hold a feast unto me in the wilderness." God is telling Moses to lie because the real reason is to escape.

"Samuel said, How can I go? if Saul hear it, he will kill me. And the Lord said, Take a heifer with thee, and say, I am come to sacrifice to the Lord" (1 Sam. 16:2). The Lord told Samuel to lie also, since he is actually going out to meet a son of Jesse to anoint him king. Yet, we are told in Prov. 12:22 that, "Lying lips are an abomination to the Lord."

“THERE IS NO GOD”

Since: Feb 09

Northern California

#21002 Oct 13, 2013
GOD LIES:
Joshua 7:1 says, "The people of Israel broke faith in regard to the devoted things; for Achan...took some of the devoted things; and the anger of the Lord burned against the people of Israel" and God responds by saying in the 11th verse, "Israel has sinned, and they have also transgressed my covenant...." Yet, God did not tell the truth. Only Achan sinned, not all Israel, and Achan admits as much in the 20th verse by saying, "Indeed I have sinned against the Lord God of Israel...."

"He (David) shall build a house for my name, and I will establish the throne of his kingdom forever" (2 Sam. 7:13) and to David God says, "thine house and thy kingdom shall be established forever: thy throne shall be established for ever" (2 Sam. 7:16). God's prophecy failed. He didn't tell the truth. The Davidic line ended with Zedekiah and there was no Davidic king for 450 years when the Maccabeans established a dynasty, the first king being Aristobulus. Since the end of the Maccabean dynasty there has never been a king of the Jews. Second Kings 24:14 proves as much by saying, "He carried away all Jerusalem, and all the princes, and all the mighty men of valour, even ten thousand captives, and all the craftsmen and smiths. None remained, save the poorest sort of the people of the land."

If viewed together the following verses also show God engaged in prevarication. "...of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eat thereof thou shalt surely die" (Gen. 2:17), "God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die" (Gen. 3:3), "the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die" (Gen. 3:4), and "all the days that Adam lived were 930 years and he died" (Gen. 5:5). God said Adam and Eve would die on the day they ate of the tree and the devil said they would not. They ate of it and Adam lived to be 930 years old. In other words, God lied and the devil told the truth. Yet, according to Titus 1:2 "God never lies."

And finally, in Gen. 3:14 God said to the serpent, "...upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life...." Serpents do not now and never have eaten dust. If the serpent represents the Devil, he does not eat dust either; so, in either case God did not tell the truth.

“THERE IS NO GOD”

Since: Feb 09

Northern California

#21003 Oct 13, 2013
GOD REWARDS LIARS:
Ex. 1:15-20 says, "The king of Egypt said to the Hebrew midwives, whose names were Shiphrah and Puah,'When you help the Hebrew women in childbirth and observe them on the delivery stool, if it is a boy, kill him; but if it is a girl, let her live.' The midwives, however, feared God and did not do what the king of Egypt had told them to do; they let the boys live. Then the king of Egypt summoned the midwives and asked them,'Why have you done this? Why have you let the boys live?' The midwives answered Pharaoh,'Hebrew women are not like Egyptian women; they are vigorous and give birth before the midwives arrive.' So God was kind to the midwives and the people increased and became even more numerous." The midwives lied and God rewarded them by being kind to them.

Joshua 2:3-6 says, "So the king of Jericho sent this message to Rahab,'Bring out the men who came to you and entered your house, because they have come to spy out the whole land.' But the woman had taken the two men and hidden them. She said,'Yes, the men came to me, but I did not know where they had come from. At dusk, when it was time to close the city gate, the men left. I don't know which way they went. Go after them quickly. You may catch up with them." (But she had taken them up to the roof and hidden them under the stalks of flax she had laid out on the roof.) Rahab lied about where the men were and yet James 2:25 says, "...was not Rahab the prostitute considered righteous for what she did when she gave lodging to the spies and sent them off in a different direction?"

And 2 Kings 10:18-21 says, "Jehu brought all the people together and said to them,'Ahab served Baal a little; Jehu will serve him much. Now summon all the prophets of Baal, all his ministers and all his priests. See that no one is missing, because I am going to hold a great sacrifice for Baal. Anyone who fails to come will no longer live. But Jehu was acting deceptively in order to destroy the ministers of Baal.... all the ministers of Baal came; not one stayed away. They crowded into the temple of Baal until it was full from one end to the other." And as verses 25 to 30 show Jehu ordered his guards to go in and kill all those who worshipped Baal. After the bloodshed and killing had concluded the Lord said to Jehu in verse 30, "Because you have done well in accomplishing what is right in my eyes and have done to the house of Ahab all I had in mind to do, your descendants will sit on the throne of Israel to the 4th generation." How is that for a God of mercy!

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