Homosexuality and the Bible

Homosexuality and the Bible

There are 34838 comments on the www.smh.com.au story from Aug 15, 2011, titled Homosexuality and the Bible. In it, www.smh.com.au reports that:

Given the ongoing debate about same-sex marriage, it is time I looked at the two Testaments to remind myself why belief is so hard for me to embrace.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at www.smh.com.au.

Since: Feb 09

Location hidden

#18251 May 30, 2013
RevKen wrote:
<quoted text>
Your post succinctly restates the matter of the thread topic. It is not at all as others have said: A statement of how the Bible irrefutably condemns all homosexuality.
Very few people ever get taught the true purpose of the Bible. That includes most priests, pastors, ministers and preachers. And then, having been insufficiently informed, those who incorrectly teach it, encourage their followers to become rabid dogs in search of percieved Hell-bent cause and effect. The fundamentalist/literalist way of seeing is a self-fulfilling prophesy.
Rabbis, on the other hand, because they are steeped in Tradition, are more likely to get it. Still, because of an orthodoxy that goes hand in hand with Tradition, they are also vulnerable to acceptance into a very bigoted, self-righteous fraternity. Even so, they still have their Jewish mothers to keep them from getting to high on the rocking horse. Just ask Jesus about where the authority really rests.
Few want to see the evidence because most want something concrete and established that they can point to; something that they can see that others also respect as authority; Something that one can hang their hat on. They see the "incontrovertible authority and truth" vested in the "Holy Spirit inspired" Bible as a pillar of established stability in a world of political and social and financial constructs that seemingly have no foundation.
When the Bible, and other "inspired" scripture, is afforded such status, it is easy for the fearful to use it as an axe against the person who engages in any perceived misbehavior.
When you take that source of authority away from them, Alan, by revealing its inconsistencies,...
you take away their most precious safe harbor and set them adrift in an often violent sea with no land in sight.
Rev. Ken
Thank you for your very kind reply. You really hit the nail on its head saying that I take away their most precious safe harbor etc. It is what has to be done because as long as they look to the Bible to tell them about homosexuality the bigotry will continue.

Do we look to the Bible to tell us about slavery? Do we look to the Bible to tell us about the rights of women? Do we look to the Bible for dietary advice? No of course not.

Since: Feb 09

Location hidden

#18252 May 30, 2013
WasteWater wrote:
<quoted text>
One thing for sure, it won't get bigger.... ROTFLMAO
Right, and he never kisses guys who have penis' bigger than his own which means he never kisses.
heartandmind

Moline, IL

#18254 May 30, 2013
Dusty Mangina wrote:
<quoted text>
My SS marriage license says "marriage". It doesn't get any more real than that. Remember, hon, "words define reality".
Sucks to be you.
congratulations on the marriage!

my partner and i hope to legally marry sometime in the near future as well.

depends on what the supreme court says, anyway.

“KiMare'a the Monster Mutation”

Since: Nov 10

Location hidden

#18255 May 30, 2013
heartandmind wrote:
<quoted text>
congratulations on the marriage!
my partner and i hope to legally marry sometime in the near future as well.
depends on what the supreme court says, anyway.
You mean a mutually sterile duplicated gender half of a real marriage?

“Busting Kimare's”

Since: Feb 13

Clitty

#18256 May 30, 2013
KiMare wrote:
<quoted text>
You mean a mutually sterile duplicated gender half of a real marriage?
Neither of us is sterile. And, unlike you, we are of single genders.

We have a law. We have a certificate. we have a relationship. we have a marriage.

you on the other hand, have Jack Schitt.

“KiMare'a the Monster Mutation”

Since: Nov 10

Location hidden

#18257 May 30, 2013
Dusty Mangina wrote:
<quoted text>
Neither of us is sterile. And, unlike you, we are of single genders.
We have a law. We have a certificate. we have a relationship. we have a marriage.
you on the other hand, have Jack Schitt.
That is not what I said.

Got a problem dealing with reality, don't you.

“Busting Kimare's”

Since: Feb 13

Clitty

#18258 May 30, 2013
KiMare wrote:
<quoted text>
That is not what I said.
Got a problem dealing with reality, don't you.
No dear, the reality problem is ALL yours.

“KiMare'a the Monster Mutation”

Since: Nov 10

Location hidden

#18259 May 30, 2013
Dusty Mangina wrote:
<quoted text>
No dear, the reality problem is ALL yours.
Specifically how so?

A ss couple will only ever be a mutually sterile pointless duplicate gendered half of marriage.

“Busting Kimare's”

Since: Feb 13

Clitty

#18260 May 30, 2013
KiMare wrote:
<quoted text>
Specifically how so?
A ss couple will only ever be a mutually sterile pointless duplicate gendered half of marriage.
I'm sure you have a point, but you fail to make it.

“KiMare'a the Monster Mutation”

Since: Nov 10

Location hidden

#18261 May 30, 2013
KiMare wrote:
<quoted text>
Specifically how so?
A ss couple will only ever be a mutually sterile pointless duplicate gendered half of marriage.
Dusty Mangina wrote:
<quoted text>
I'm sure you have a point, but you fail to make it.
DM can't back up her mouth.
DM can't back up her mouth.
DM can't back up her mouth.

Since: Aug 09

Location hidden

#18262 May 31, 2013
KiMare wrote:
KiMare wrote:
<quoted text>
Specifically how so?
A ss couple will only ever be a mutually sterile pointless duplicate gendered half of marriage.
<quoted text>
DM can't back up her mouth.
DM can't back up her mouth.
DM can't back up her mouth.
People,

The above post comes from a man who has no foundation in rational thought or in a reasonably present sense of the value of scripture. For some reason that he continues to refuse to explain, he is critical of relationships that he does not understand.

Then, after voicing such unfounded criticism, he repeats himself parrot-like, undoubtedly to try to convince himself that he is right.

To those who are the intended recipients of his venomous attacks, I caution you to take care to guard yourselves against this type of institutionalized bigotry. Obviously, there are many more than just this person who you will encounter in your travels who will also regard your relationship with your spouse as an invalid error made in an apostacy of biblical faith.

Find your pastor, minister or priest who understands your choices and commitment to each other and rest assured that your faith in each other will be held in the sanctity of the Holy Spirit by and through the recognition given. That is the word of Life that Jesus Christ gave to us and it is the Gift of Life that He asks you to accept.

No one can take that away from you.

May God Bless you and keep you.

Rev. Ken
heartandmind

Moline, IL

#18263 May 31, 2013
KiMare wrote:
<quoted text>
You mean a mutually sterile duplicated gender half of a real marriage?
LOL
not the way we do things, sugar.

“KiMare'a the Monster Mutation”

Since: Nov 10

Location hidden

#18264 May 31, 2013
KiMare wrote:
<quoted text>
You mean a mutually sterile duplicated gender half of a real marriage?
heartandmind wrote:
<quoted text>
LOL
not the way we do things, sugar.
You don't have a choice in those facts honey.
heartandmind

Moline, IL

#18265 May 31, 2013
KiMare wrote:
KiMare wrote:
<quoted text>
You mean a mutually sterile duplicated gender half of a real marriage?
<quoted text>
You don't have a choice in those facts honey.
...and you opinion means what to me?

....right.

you really are quite full of yourself, thinking your opinion carries any weight with anyone else.

and yes, we do have a choice in how our relationship goes. we choose to be together and to be happy together and to respect one another & to raise our kids together.

not much you can do about that, sweetcheeks.

Since: Aug 09

Location hidden

#18266 May 31, 2013
KiMare wrote:
KiMare wrote:

You mean a mutually sterile duplicated gender half of a real marriage?

You don't have a choice in those facts honey.
Dear KiMare "Honey" (not my choice of monikers),

You describe a physical variance from an iconic ideal. But, the ideal is only an outward form.

Likewise, we have the same type of description in scripture. Genesis Ch, 1, v. 27 reads, "in the image of God he created them; male and female he created them."

The Hebrew understanding was that Because God "breathes" life into the dust, animating the man-woman in the image of God, the Human Being is a psycho-physical self representing the unification of Spirit with Form. It is not presented in scripture to be understood to be a duality.

Man and woman are equal in this regard. But, there is no proscription in scripture that says that any Human Being that does NOT fit the iconic ideal of strictly male or strictly female is therefore somehow less than the same "image" that is God-given or "spirit" that is God-breathed.

Furthermore, all references in scripture that point back to the creation of Humankind and which exemplify the union of male and female, for every reason including marriage, do so to show that the cultural practices OF humankind are a result OF - not a cause FOR these natural unions. Understand.

Marriage is the product of culture; a recognition. Marriage is an accommodation that recognizes certain forms that derive from and develop in tribal culture. The Sacrament of Marriage is NOT the CAUSE of tribal culture. It is how tribal life made provisions for cultural ramifications. These include morality, inheritance of property acquired and transmission of knowledge and privilege.

But, tribal life and knowledge have always been and continue to be a composite of truth, practical behavior, traditional mores, preservation of all forms of wealth and a peculiar mixture of ancestral taboo and superstitions.

Your own view of what the institution of Marriage actually is, although based in good part upon historical and religious traditions, is very limited in scope.

These who are same-sex or some variation who now seek to accept the responsibilities of a life committed to the ideals of what Marriage CAN be are fully capable of bearing the melding of their souls for these purposes.

They will receive the Blessing.

It does not matter that they can or cannot presently provide every aspect of the ideal male-female union. What matters is the essential Spiritual Union. This they CAN provide.

Of all people, you yourself claim to be a person who does not fit the ideal of a perfectly genetically segregated male or female. Yet, God has seen fit to "Breathe" life into the very clay that became YOU! So, are you any less of an "Image" of God because of that?

I think not.

In fact, you may be closer in form to an "Image" that is both male and female, such as the One God IS, more so than any of us who claim the same "Image," yet must be satisfied to describe ourselves as either male or female.

And if you were to find another person to love in a fullness of compatibility and purpose sufficiently female to suit your maleness or vice versa, would you expect me, as a priest of the Lord, Christ Jesus, to deny the true "Image" of your Humanity? Or would I be expected to deny your willing choice to share your life, your trust, your integrity through joy and sorrow, and even your vows to each other in the plain Sight of the One God that has made both of you?

I can tell you that I would not deny you. And I will state openly in the Spirit, now, that I would be right to oversee your Marriage to such an individual, despite ANY shortcomings that someone else - such as YOU, KiMare - might try to hold against me in order to prevent me from joining with my own such significant other.

Perfection finds form by way of Light and Consciousness, through Life and Love.

Rev. Ken
A priest and disciple of Our Lord, Christ Jesus.

“Smiles are contagious”

Since: Jan 13

Location hidden

#18267 May 31, 2013
I have been following this thread for quite some time, posted a couple, and would love to ask a question of some of the more religious based folks. I understand you find homosexuality to be a sin, and that being the case, of a homosexual is not able to repent or whatever to abolish their homosexuality what do you suggest they do with their lives? Do you advoate colonizing them in a world of their own? Abolishing their "kind" because they do not meet your requirements? Just curious. Thank you to anyone who takes the ti me to addr4ess my question
heartandmind

Moline, IL

#18268 May 31, 2013
RevKen - your post above is beautiful.

“KiMare'a the Monster Mutation”

Since: Nov 10

Location hidden

#18269 May 31, 2013
KiMare wrote:
<quoted text>
You mean a mutually sterile duplicated gender half of a real marriage?
<quoted text>
You don't have a choice in those facts honey.
heartandmind wrote:
<quoted text>
...and you opinion means what to me?
....right.
you really are quite full of yourself, thinking your opinion carries any weight with anyone else.
and yes, we do have a choice in how our relationship goes. we choose to be together and to be happy together and to respect one another & to raise our kids together.
not much you can do about that, sweetcheeks.
I said nothing about you. I simply noted unchangeable distinctions between ss couples and marriage.

By the way, you don't have 'our kids' the way marriage does. Another unchangeable fact.

“KiMare'a the Monster Mutation”

Since: Nov 10

Location hidden

#18270 May 31, 2013
RevKen wrote:
<quoted text>
Dear KiMare "Honey" (not my choice of monikers),
You describe a physical variance from an iconic ideal. But, the ideal is only an outward form.
Likewise, we have the same type of description in scripture. Genesis Ch, 1, v. 27 reads, "in the image of God he created them; male and female he created them."
The Hebrew understanding was that Because God "breathes" life into the dust, animating the man-woman in the image of God, the Human B...
certain forms that derive from and develop in tribal culture. The Sacrament of Marriage is NOT the CAUSE of tribal culture. It is how tribal life made provisions for cultural ramifications. These include morality, inheritance of property acquired and transmission of knowledge and privilege.
But, tribal life and knowledge have always been and continue to be a composite of truth, practical behavior, traditional mores, preservation of all forms of wealth and a peculiar mixture of ancestral taboo and superstitions.
Your own view of what the institution of Marriage actually is, although based in good part upon historical and religious traditions, is very limited in scope.
These who are same-sex or some variation who now seek to accept the responsibilities of a life committed to the ideals of what Marriage CAN be are fully capable of bearing the melding of their souls for these purposes.
They will receive the Blessing.
It does not matter that they can or cannot presently provide every aspect of the ideal male-female union. What matters is the essential Spiritual Union. This they CAN provide.
Of all people, you yourself claim to be a person who does not fit the ideal of a perfectly genetically segregated male or female. Yet, God has seen fit to "Breathe" life into the very clay that became YOU! So, are you any less of an "Image" of God because of that?
I think not.
In fact, you may be closer in form to an "Image" that is both male and female, such as the One God IS, more so than any of us who claim the same "Image," yet must be satisfied to describe ourselves as either male or female.
And if you were to find another person to love in a fullness of compatibility and purpose sufficiently female to suit your maleness or vice versa, would you expect me, as a priest of the Lord, Christ Jesus, to deny the true "Image" of your Humanity? Or would I be expected to deny your willing choice to share your life, your trust, your integrity through joy and sorrow, and even your vows to each other in the plain Sight of the One God that has made both of you?
I can tell you that I would not deny you. And I will state openly in the Spirit, now, that I would be right to oversee your Marriage to such an individual, despite ANY shortcomings that someone else - such as YOU, KiMare - might try to hold against me in order to prevent me from joining with my own such significant other.
Perfection finds form by way of Light and Consciousness, through Life and Love.
Rev. Ken
A priest and disciple of Our Lord, Christ Jesus.
My view is a lot less complicated;

Male and female reunited reflect the image of God.

A single duplicated gender image would be void of a whole dimension of God's image. Simply a failure.

The Word is very specific quoted by Jesus in Matthew 19; 'male and female created He them.'

Science claims the constraint of marriage is a social construct motivated primarily because of the human fruit a couple mutually creates.

The Bible ascribes marriage to God's design.

Your sanctimonious pontification violates both.

“KiMare'a the Monster Mutation”

Since: Nov 10

Location hidden

#18271 May 31, 2013
mmmmyes wrote:
I have been following this thread for quite some time, posted a couple, and would love to ask a question of some of the more religious based folks. I understand you find homosexuality to be a sin, and that being the case, of a homosexual is not able to repent or whatever to abolish their homosexuality what do you suggest they do with their lives? Do you advoate colonizing them in a world of their own? Abolishing their "kind" because they do not meet your requirements? Just curious. Thank you to anyone who takes the ti me to addr4ess my question
The Bible does not condemn homosexuality. It condemns immorality (behavior).

It restricts sexual activity to marriage between a man and woman.

OT Law commands men to behave like men, and women to behave like women.

I believe Jesus was talking about homosexuals in Matthew 19 when he spoke of those 'born eunuchs'.

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