Homosexuality and the Bible

Homosexuality and the Bible

There are 36047 comments on the www.smh.com.au story from Aug 15, 2011, titled Homosexuality and the Bible. In it, www.smh.com.au reports that:

Given the ongoing debate about same-sex marriage, it is time I looked at the two Testaments to remind myself why belief is so hard for me to embrace.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at www.smh.com.au.

“KiMare'a the Monster Mutation”

Since: Nov 10

Location hidden

#16184 Jan 28, 2013
RevKen wrote:
<quoted text>
LOL!!!.... No.-I- EQUATED THE CONSENSUS OF THE WORLD - to show just how worthless an argument can be when based upon a peculiarly misguided consensus. Any "vast consensus" can be erroneous, just as the "vast consensus" in which you have put your faith has all too frequently been shown to be!
The letter of Paul to Philemon is not a discussion of the institution of slavery, which, in other texts had already been shown to be acceptable. It is in reference to an individual. Read your bible.
As for flatness, scripture says that God said, "Let there be lights in the dome of the sky ..." implying that the expanse of dry land, which is earth, existed before the hanging of the "lights." They were not understood to be stars of the cosmic deep.
So, Dear Smiley, you are full of Baloney.
I do not relish ridiculing anyone; unless they persist in trying to push the innocent and ostracized among us into a detrimental position.
Jesus tells us, repeatedly, to protect the children. Jesus shows us repeatedly to regard our mothers, sisters, significant others, wives, daughters and the entire female population with absolute respect.
There is a reason why Jesus did as his mother asked at the Wedding in Cana. This was his first miracle. In spite of his reticence and objections, he did as he was asked.
Later, when the sisters, Mary and Martha, hosted the "inner circle" disciples, Martha complained that Mary would not help with the chores of hospitality. Jesus was not sympathetic to Martha. Instead, he stated with obvious conviction that Mary was exactly where she was SUPPOSED to be, taking in the Teachings!- and for what purpose?
Everyone who was there taking in the Teachings was there so that they could later propagate the dissemination of the Gospel.
It is the height of patristic arrogance and a willful denial to continue to hold that women are incapable of holding any specific office of spiritual guidance or to competently conduct the Ministry of the Gospel of Christ Jesus. They have proven their full capability. They now serve and are welcome in the priesthood at every level.
...we will be ready in the spirit of deception to answer.
Rev. Ken
I know exactly what you tried to 'equate'. Your Christian theology isn't judged by the world, it's judged by the Word. Like I said, those who know the Word judge you a heretic.

The message of the Bible is that sin brings slavery. Not God's design at all. Jesus brings freedom, and that is exemplified by history. Philemon is the message of a slave becoming a brother.

Respect goes to all people. Authority does not. Jesus obeyed his mother as a child, and respected her as an adult. The context of the Martha and Mary incident is that they were there to serve Jesus and the disciples. You once again falsely equate the desire to hear God speak with His commission of Disciples. Clearly Mary and Martha were not included in the latter.

The prohibition of formal positions of authority by women over men is clearly stated at the end of I Tim 2. Immediately formal positions in the Church follow in I Tim 3.

I am simply and accurately stating the consistent teachings of God's Word and the practice that followed. You have created a self designed theology where your god does your bidding and submits to your understanding. You clearly have the stature of a god confused with yourself.

But please, try another example from God's Word that equates gender authority.

Meanwhile rev., here is a question for you. If there were a group of women in a church with specific needs and problems, according to Biblical instruction, who would you appoint to assist them? All women? All men? Or mixed?

Smile.

Since: Apr 12

Location hidden

#16185 Jan 28, 2013
Hi KiMare. I agree with you in a lot. RevKen seems to struggle with disrespect.
El Segundo

United States

#16186 Jan 28, 2013
Hi KiMare. I also agree with you in a lot. The very unreverend Ken misbelieves homosexuality is resulting from accident of nature. Homosexuality truthfully results from Satanic origin of intervention. RevKen suks. I give his posts the bottom judge, but I will pray for him.

Peace

Since: Apr 12

Location hidden

#16187 Jan 28, 2013
El Segundo wrote:
Hi KiMare. I also agree with you in a lot. The very unreverend Ken misbelieves homosexuality is resulting from accident of nature. Homosexuality truthfully results from Satanic origin of intervention. RevKen suks. I give his posts the bottom judge, but I will pray for him.
Peace
:)
Robsan5

San Leandro, CA

#16188 Jan 28, 2013
KiMare wrote:
<quoted text>
I know exactly what you tried to 'equate'. Your Christian theology isn't judged by the world, it's judged by the Word. Like I said, those who know the Word judge you a heretic.
The guy who says that god is a radioactive alien is calling some else a heretic?!? Gee, I wonder what the consensus of christians is regarding god being a radioactive alien.
Thanks for posting and showing us how stupid you are.

Robert

Since: Feb 09

Location hidden

#16189 Jan 28, 2013
RevKen wrote:
<quoted text> There are now about 6 billion people on this planet. How many of them are "Christians?"
That is easy to answer, none of them. There is no such thing as a Christian upon the earth because no one, especially the candidates for the lunatic asylum who post their madness here, do not qualify.

Those who claim they are a Christian are like the passengers on the Titanic who re-arranged the deck chairs as the ship sank.

This makes Christianity a pathetic evil, an abomination. You all have turned it into a crime against humanity.

Since: Feb 09

Location hidden

#16190 Jan 28, 2013
Robsan5 wrote:
<quoted text>
The guy who says that god is a radioactive alien is calling some else a heretic?!? Gee, I wonder what the consensus of christians is regarding god being a radioactive alien.
Thanks for posting and showing us how stupid you are.
Robert
That makes as much sense as what the Bible says God is. Besides since you are so stupid that you believe just any old tale you are told, why does it matter which one you believe?

Since: Feb 09

Location hidden

#16191 Jan 28, 2013
KiMare wrote:
<quoted text>
blah blah blah blah blah blah snipped.
I'd rather watch paint dry than bore myself reading another of your pointless fantasies. You haven't a clue what you are talking about.
Robsan5

San Leandro, CA

#16192 Jan 28, 2013
Reverend Alan wrote:
<quoted text>
That makes as much sense as what the Bible says God is. Besides since you are so stupid that you believe just any old tale you are told, why does it matter which one you believe?
Which "old tale" do I believe?

Robert

Since: Feb 09

Location hidden

#16194 Jan 28, 2013
Robsan5 wrote:
<quoted text>
Which "old tale" do I believe?
Robert
Does it matter? Any one is as bad as any other. Believe nothing, verify everything.
You are all idiots

Leeds, UK

#16195 Jan 28, 2013
Seriously, why is this even a debate? According to the bible we shouldn't eat pork, we shouldn't get divorces, we shouldn't get aroused by anyone other than our partners, and we should treat women as lower-class citizens.
Henceforth any man who tells me homosexuality is an abomination is going to have his wife stoned.
Any woman I'm going to personally stone. Just as the good book tells us to.
Oh, and let's not forget some of the cooler parts of the bible! Have you guys ever heard of Deuteronomy? Sure, it's the most horrendous and disgusting book in the bible, but it sure works wonders for giving you filthy bigots a metaphorical slap to the face.
God never personally said anything about homosexuality, nor did Jesus. You twats are touting the ignorance of MAN, not of God. MAN wrote and spoke those words.
I mean shit, Jesus himself said "Love thy neighbour as you would thyself", "But Lord Jesus, what of the blacks, gays, and women?" "What, did I fucking stutter?" (I might be ad-libbing a little).
And hey, on that not, one of those men wrote "Man should not lay with man as he would with woman", which is pretty obviously just stating that one should partake in sodomy in such a case.
And now onto the science of why you people are wrong: You believe God makes everything, yes? Well here's a fun question: WHY did he make gay folk?
And since God makes man in his own image, I guess that means he's quite the fabulous divine entity, doesn't it?
A person can not control their own neural biology, and as such can NOT in ANY way control who they are and are not attracted to.
Your religion is stolen from another which was stolen from another, even Jesus wasn't Christian. That's how terrible a group you tend to be.
And on that note: Actually prove anything you're saying. And since you CAN'T prove any of it, feel free to keep your ignorance and bigotry to your own damn self you dense, putrid heap of vaginal discharge.
Robsan5

San Leandro, CA

#16196 Jan 28, 2013
Reverend Alan wrote:
<quoted text>
Does it matter? Any one is as bad as any other. Believe nothing, verify everything.
It does matter. You said I am "so stupid because I believe any old tale."
What "old tale" do I believe?

Robert

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#16198 Jan 28, 2013
You are all idiots wrote:
Seriously, why is this even a debate? According to the bible we shouldn't eat pork, we shouldn't get divorces, we shouldn't get aroused by anyone other than our partners, and we should treat women as lower-class citizens.
Henceforth any man who tells me homosexuality is an abomination is going to have his wife stoned.
Any woman I'm going to personally stone. Just as the good book tells us to.
Oh, and let's not forget some of the cooler parts of the bible! Have you guys ever heard of Deuteronomy? Sure, it's the most horrendous and disgusting book in the bible, but it sure works wonders for giving you filthy bigots a metaphorical slap to the face.
God never personally said anything about homosexuality, nor did Jesus. You twats are touting the ignorance of MAN, not of God. MAN wrote and spoke those words.
I mean shit, Jesus himself said "Love thy neighbour as you would thyself", "But Lord Jesus, what of the blacks, gays, and women?" "What, did I fucking stutter?" (I might be ad-libbing a little).
And hey, on that not, one of those men wrote "Man should not lay with man as he would with woman", which is pretty obviously just stating that one should partake in sodomy in such a case.
And now onto the science of why you people are wrong: You believe God makes everything, yes? Well here's a fun question: WHY did he make gay folk?
And since God makes man in his own image, I guess that means he's quite the fabulous divine entity, doesn't it?
A person can not control their own neural biology, and as such can NOT in ANY way control who they are and are not attracted to.
Your religion is stolen from another which was stolen from another, even Jesus wasn't Christian. That's how terrible a group you tend to be.
And on that note: Actually prove anything you're saying. And since you CAN'T prove any of it, feel free to keep your ignorance and bigotry to your own damn self you dense, putrid heap of vaginal discharge.
I agree. The Bible is crap.

Since: Aug 09

Location hidden

#16200 Jan 29, 2013
El Segundo wrote:
Hi KiMare. I also agree with you in a lot. The very unreverend Ken misbelieves homosexuality is resulting from accident of nature. Homosexuality truthfully results from Satanic origin of intervention. RevKen suks. I give his posts the bottom judge, but I will pray for him.
Peace
LOL!!!....

Manmanman, posing as his alter ego El Segundo, again attempts to confirm himself.

No. I do not believe that any particular part of the normal spectrum of human sexual orientation is an accident.

Considering the source and motivation of your prayers, Manmanman, I prefer to not accept your misguided blessings. So, thanks anyway, but, no thanks. I will, however, always seek to accept guidance from the Master, Christ Jesus. It follows that if you can manage to request such guidance for me without coloring your requests with your personal animus toward me, you are welcome to make such prayers on my behalf.

As it is, judging by your message above, you are not quite able to do this, yet.

Until then, little brother Manmanman El Segundo Blue Bottle Fly Feckless Twit,... buzz off.

Oh, and "Don't go away mad. Just go away" - Alfred E. Newman

Rev. Ken

Since: Aug 09

Location hidden

#16201 Jan 29, 2013
Reverend Alan wrote:
<quoted text>
Does it matter? Any one is as bad as any other. Believe nothing, verify everything.
From one Rev. to another:

That's funny.

If one is inclined to practice a mantra of "believe nothing," one would have no reason to seek to verify anything.

Obviously, you actually are attempting to believe "nothing." But, equally obvious is your inability to describe just what that "nothing" is.

Rev. Ken

“KiMare'a the Monster Mutation”

Since: Nov 10

Location hidden

#16202 Jan 29, 2013
You are all idiots wrote:
Seriously, why is this even a debate? According to the bible we shouldn't eat pork, we shouldn't get divorces, we shouldn't get aroused by anyone other than our partners, and we should treat women as lower-class citizens.
Henceforth any man who tells me homosexuality is an abomination is going to have his wife stoned.
Any woman I'm going to personally stone. Just as the good book tells us to.
Oh, and let's not forget some of the cooler parts of the bible! Have you guys ever heard of Deuteronomy? Sure, it's the most horrendous and disgusting book in the bible, but it sure works wonders for giving you filthy bigots a metaphorical slap to the face.
God never personally said anything about homosexuality, nor did Jesus. You twats are touting the ignorance of MAN, not of God. MAN wrote and spoke those words.
I mean shit, Jesus himself said "Love thy neighbour as you would thyself", "But Lord Jesus, what of the blacks, gays, and women?" "What, did I fucking stutter?" (I might be ad-libbing a little).
And hey, on that not, one of those men wrote "Man should not lay with man as he would with woman", which is pretty obviously just stating that one should partake in sodomy in such a case.
And now onto the science of why you people are wrong: You believe God makes everything, yes? Well here's a fun question: WHY did he make gay folk?
And since God makes man in his own image, I guess that means he's quite the fabulous divine entity, doesn't it?
A person can not control their own neural biology, and as such can NOT in ANY way control who they are and are not attracted to.
Your religion is stolen from another which was stolen from another, even Jesus wasn't Christian. That's how terrible a group you tend to be.
And on that note: Actually prove anything you're saying. And since you CAN'T prove any of it, feel free to keep your ignorance and bigotry to your own damn self you dense, putrid heap of vaginal discharge.
Perhaps you want to pick one point to discuss specifically?

Smile.

“KiMare'a the Monster Mutation”

Since: Nov 10

Location hidden

#16203 Jan 29, 2013
RevKen wrote:
<quoted text>
LOL!!!....
Manmanman, posing as his alter ego El Segundo, again attempts to confirm himself.
No. I do not believe that any particular part of the normal spectrum of human sexual orientation is an accident.
Considering the source and motivation of your prayers, Manmanman, I prefer to not accept your misguided blessings. So, thanks anyway, but, no thanks. I will, however, always seek to accept guidance from the Master, Christ Jesus. It follows that if you can manage to request such guidance for me without coloring your requests with your personal animus toward me, you are welcome to make such prayers on my behalf.
As it is, judging by your message above, you are not quite able to do this, yet.
Until then, little brother Manmanman El Segundo Blue Bottle Fly Feckless Twit,... buzz off.
Oh, and "Don't go away mad. Just go away" - Alfred E. Newman
Rev. Ken
Waiting for a response rev.

Smile.

Since: Aug 09

Location hidden

#16204 Jan 30, 2013
KiMare wrote:
<quoted text>
Waiting for a response rev.
Smile.
KiMare wrote:
<quoted text>
I know exactly what you tried to 'equate'. Your Christian theology isn't judged by the world, it's judged by the Word. Like I said, those who know the Word judge you a heretic.

...

The context of the Martha and Mary incident is that they were there to serve Jesus and the disciples. You once again falsely equate the desire to hear God speak with His commission of Disciples. Clearly Mary and Martha were not included in the latter.
The prohibition of formal positions of authority by women over men is clearly stated at the end of I Tim 2. Immediately formal positions in the Church follow in I Tim 3.

...

But please, try another example from God's Word that equates gender authority.
Meanwhile rev., here is a question for you. If there were a group of women in a church with specific needs and problems, according to Biblical instruction, who would you appoint to assist them? All women? All men? Or mixed?
Smile.
Dear Kimare,

If the above (from post #16184) is what you are waiting for me to respond to, I offer the following:

As to the last question, if and when it is in my purview to delegate authority or to appoint a person to manage a problem, I look for two things:
1. A willingness to do the job that needs to be done.
2. A demonstration of either apparent or expected competency.

Other than these, the needs of the situation are best determined as the situation arises. If you are asking whether or not spiritual discernment or prayer are a part of any such process of delegation or assignment of duties, regardless of the gender of the individuals helping or being helped; yes, of course. Sometimes openly. Sometimes not.

What you (and others) call "God's Word" may mean different things. By your writing, I believe that you are referring to scripture. But, authority is a characteristic of Living Being. Scripture can be used to make reference to custom and tradition, including Law and precedent. But, the authority in Spirit is a function that comes only through the person.

If you do not understand this, review the story in scripture where Jesus is asked by what authority he teaches.

You wrote:
"The context of the Martha and Mary incident is that they were there to serve Jesus and the disciples. You once again falsely equate the desire to hear God speak with His commission of Disciples. Clearly Mary and Martha were not included in the latter.
The prohibition of formal positions of authority by women over men is clearly stated at the end of I Tim 2. Immediately formal positions in the Church follow in I Tim 3."

No.

Here is the scripture:

"Martha, Martha, you are worried and distracted by many things; there is need of only one thing. Mary has chosen the better part, which will not be taken away fom her."

As for the Letters to Timothy, they were written by Paul, or his representative. They therefore reflect the culture and traditions of the time and as approved by Paul. You may choose to conduct yourself as you believe to be correct. But, 13 years ago we entered the 21st Century.

We ordain women to the priesthood and ministry of Christ Jesus. Women have consistently and competently proven themselves to be able to do every bit as good a job in this capacity as any man can do. They function in the Spirit with Light and with the authority vested in them by Christ Jesus.

The precedent for doing this was set by Christ Jesus. Ask yourself if women in His discipleship were present when He Blessed the disciples and breathed the Holy Spirit into them as told in Chapter 20 of the Gospel of John. They were.

Rev. Ken

“KiMare'a the Monster Mutation”

Since: Nov 10

Location hidden

#16206 Jan 30, 2013
RevKen wrote:
<quoted text>
<quoted text>
Dear Kimare,
If the above (from post #16184) is what you are waiting for me to respond to, I offer the following:
As to the last question, if and when it is in my purview to delegate authority or to appoint a person to manage a problem, I look for two things:
1. A willingness to do the job that needs to be done.
2. A demonstration of either apparent or expected competency.
Other than these, the needs of the situation are best determined as the situation arises. If you are asking whether or not spiritual discernment or prayer are a part of any such process of delegation or assignment of duties, regardless of the gender of the individuals helping or being helped; yes, of course. Sometimes openly. Sometimes not.
What you (and others) call "God's Word" may mean different things. By your writing, I believe that you are referring to scripture. But, authority is a characteristic of Living Being. Scripture can be used to make reference to custom and tradition, including Law and precedent. But, the authority in Spirit is a function that comes only through the person.
If you do not understand this, review the story in scripture where Jesus is asked by what authority he teaches.
You wrote:
"The context of the Martha and Mary incident is that they were there to serve Jesus and the disciples. You once again falsely equate the desire to hear God speak with His commission of Disciples. Clearly Mary and Martha were not included in the latter.
The prohibition of formal positions of authority by women over men is clearly stated at the end of I Tim 2. Immediately formal positions in the Church follow in I Tim 3."
No.
Here is the scripture:
"Martha, Martha, you are worried and distracted by many things; there is need of only one thing. Mary has chosen the better part, which will not be taken away fom her."
As for the Letters to Timothy, they were written by Paul, or his representative. They therefore reflect the culture and traditions of the time and as approved by Paul. You may choose to conduct yourself as you believe to be correct. But, 13 years ago we entered the 21st Century.
We ordain women to the priesthood and ministry of Christ Jesus. Women have consistently and competently proven themselves to be able to do every bit as good a job in this capacity as any man can do. They function in the Spirit with Light and with the authority vested in them by Christ Jesus.
The precedent for doing this was set by Christ Jesus. Ask yourself if women in His discipleship were present when He Blessed the disciples and breathed the Holy Spirit into them as told in Chapter 20 of the Gospel of John. They were.
Rev. Ken
Thank you for your response.

The answer to my question according to Scriptural record is this;

Acts 6:1-4 (NASB)
1 Now at this time while the disciples were increasing in number, a complaint arose on the part of the Hellenistic Jews against the native Hebrews, because their widows were being overlooked in the daily serving of food.
2 So the twelve summoned the congregation of the disciples and said, "It is not desirable for us to neglect the word of God in order to serve tables.
3 "Therefore, brethren, select from among you seven men of good reputation, full of the Spirit and of wisdom, whom we may put in charge of this task.
4 "But we will devote ourselves to prayer and to the ministry of the word."

It is the first example of the office of Deacon. Seven men meeting the needs of only women.

As to your rejection of I Tim 2 & 3, I simply refer to Christ's response;

Mark 7:13 (MSG)
You scratch out God's Word and scrawl a whim in its place. You do a lot of things like this."

As to John 20, you are not honest about your assertion. There is no absolute indication anyone but the twelve Disciples, absent Thomas, were present.

As I stated, Scripture is clear and consistent in It's instruction and practice regarding gender authority.

Perhaps you want to try again?

Smile.
Robsan5

United States

#16207 Jan 30, 2013
KiMare wrote:
<quoted text>
Thank you for your response.
The answer to my question according to Scriptural record is this;
Acts 6:1-4 (NASB)
1 Now at this time while the disciples were increasing in number, a complaint arose on the part of the Hellenistic Jews against the native Hebrews, because their widows were being overlooked in the daily serving of food.
2 So the twelve summoned the congregation of the disciples and said, "It is not desirable for us to neglect the word of God in order to serve tables.
3 "Therefore, brethren, select from among you seven men of good reputation, full of the Spirit and of wisdom, whom we may put in charge of this task.
4 "But we will devote ourselves to prayer and to the ministry of the word."
It is the first example of the office of Deacon. Seven men meeting the needs of only women.
As to your rejection of I Tim 2 & 3, I simply refer to Christ's response;
Mark 7:13 (MSG)
You scratch out God's Word and scrawl a whim in its place. You do a lot of things like this."
As to John 20, you are not honest about your assertion. There is no absolute indication anyone but the twelve Disciples, absent Thomas, were present.
As I stated, Scripture is clear and consistent in It's instruction and practice regarding gender authority.
Perhaps you want to try again?
Smile.
This was your whole point?!? To prove how smart you are?!?
FAIL.

Wow are you stupid.

Robert
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