Homosexuality and the Bible

Aug 15, 2011 Full story: www.smh.com.au 29,748

Given the ongoing debate about same-sex marriage, it is time I looked at the two Testaments to remind myself why belief is so hard for me to embrace.

Full Story
Benjamo84

Edmonton, Canada

#27374 Aug 25, 2014
Jesus never preached hatred
Benjamo84

Edmonton, Canada

#27375 Aug 25, 2014
Benjamo84 wrote:
<quoted text>
Religion has already done all of these by means of people. The truth is that you may be a good person in your eyes but deep down the creator knows your heart. It would be unwise to assume that you know more than an all knowing being. We aren't meant to understand the meaning of the cosmos but we can at least understand a little about life and usually what you come to learn is that the bible has already spoke about the goodness you posses. For centuries man has had philosophy which in turn has inadvertently brought some of the goodness of scripture to our hearts and minds as a species. Everything that makes up a conscious is universally there before your clerk one human life existance. And to touch on the subject, Jesus never preached hatred but he did however point out that were are all humans that makes mistakes and so therefore everyone will fall short and that no one person is better than the other. Also Jesus said to have love for one another is to Love him. It is not my job as a human to convict others of wrong doing and I have unfortunately done that but everyone has a conscience and that's the heart of our existance. With we choose to live out our lives with our pridefull ways and act accordingly or we humbly admit who we are as people to outselves and the creator alone. We accept forgiveness for our own selves knowing that with out the creators grace we are doomed like everyone else to death. Jesus didn't want anyone to perish for their selfish pride but recognized where people were at and loved them. He went to most vile people and loved them something that even the best humans couldn't do. And lastly Jesus was a real cool person too, people flocked to him. His twelve friends were cool too just from knowing about what is was like to be around Jesus. For many people they have reasons not to believe and for me I keep relationships separately I have to. I base my relationship with The Creator based on my own life. If I shunned anyone because of what anyone person said I would never have come to know our Creator. He wants us to all be as close to perfect because even though we would have an eternity to spend with him and work things out a person needs to have the right value. I call it understanding vs overstanding. I am a mostly mature person and I was heartfelt about what I wrote so please be kind in your responses.
Couldn't have said it better
Suculent-dry

Newark, NJ

#27376 Aug 25, 2014
Benjamo84 wrote:
Jesus never preached hatred
Jesus never existed. And according to the bible he is to fulfill the Old Testament. That's a creature of hate.
Brit Bloke

Albufeira, Portugal

#27377 Aug 25, 2014
KiMare wrote:
<quoted text>
You started by claiming religion was harmful. I pointed out what Christians are doing every week in communities across our country. You ignored addressing it.
Smile.
I did address it I said and I quote they do good but it is conversation by the softly softly approach. You however have addressed none of my questions. It is impossible to converse with you as with most people like you it is avoidance to defend my believe. You sad sad person with a closed mind. Please read all my other posts and try to give some sort of reasoning to my questions. Sorry I know this is wrong of me to ask as you you are UN able by blind faith.
Brit Bloke

Albufeira, Portugal

#27378 Aug 25, 2014
Benjamo84 wrote:
<quoted text>
Religion has already done all of these by means of people. The twashedh is that you may be a good person in your eyes but deep down the creator knows your heart. It would be unwise to assume that you know more than an all knowing being. We aren't meant to understand the meaning of the cosmos but we can at least understand a little about life and usually what you come to learn is that the bible has already spoke about the goodness you posses. For centuries man has had philosophy which in turn has inadvertently brought some of the goodness of scripture to our hearts and minds as a species. Everything that makes up a conscious is universally there before your clerk one human life existance. And to touch on the subject, Jesus never preached hatred but he did however point out that were are all humans that makes mistakes and so therefore everyone will fall short and that no one person is better than the other. Also Jesus said to have love for one another is to Love him. It is not my job as a human to convict others of wrong doing and I have unfortunately done that but everyone has a conscience and that's the heart of our existance. With we choose to live out our lives with our pridefull ways and act accordingly or we humbly admit who we are as people to outselves and the creator alone. We accept forgiveness for our own selves knowing that with out the creators grace we are doomed like everyone else to death. Jesus didn't want anyone to perish for their selfish pride but recognized where people were at and loved them. He went to most vile people and loved them something that even the best humans couldn't do. And lastly Jesus was a real cool person too, people flocked to him. His twelve friends were cool too just from knowing about what is was like to be around Jesus. For many people they have reasons not to believe and for me I keep relationships separately I have to. I base my relationship with The Creator based on my own life. If I shunned anyone because of what anyone person said I would never have come to know our Creator. He wants us to all be as close to perfect because even though we would have an eternity to spend with him and work things out a person needs to have the right value. I call it understanding vs overstanding. I am a mostly mature person and I was heartfelt about what I wrote so please be kind in your responses.
Our seem like a nice guy but just the way you right shows that you have been indoctrinated and brain washed. I am sorry but you will fall into one of my three categories for a religious person. Please try and answer some of my previous questions.
You right about your creator I don't claim to know better than him I simply question his existence.
You talk of Jesus as if he has spoken to you. If you are using scriptures that have been written about Jesus then I hope you know as well as I do the first ones written about him are over 300 years after his death . These cannot be corroborated or trusted as his words yet you some how choose to run your life on this. I Wouldn't trust something written 300 years ago from now little lone 1700 years ago the modern bible was invented around king James time and has probably had hundreds of interpretations before and since then. Please please wake up and realise what it is you are actually saying. These are nothing more than fairy tales you base your belief on. I am sorry but there is no creator Jesus may of lived but you cannot trust what has been written about his life little lone spoke.

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#27379 Aug 25, 2014
Suculent-dry wrote:
<quoted text>
Jesus never existed. And according to the bible he is to fulfill the Old Testament. That's a creature of hate.
What makes you so sure Jesus never existed? Prove it.
Suculent-dry

Newark, NJ

#27380 Aug 25, 2014
WasteWater wrote:
<quoted text>
What makes you so sure Jesus never existed? Prove it.
You first must provide accurate proof that he existed at all.
I highly suspect you can't.:)

“KiMare'a the Monster Mutation”

Since: Nov 10

Location hidden

#27381 Aug 25, 2014
KiMare wrote:
<quoted text>
You started by claiming religion was harmful. I pointed out what Christians are doing every week in communities across our country. You ignored addressing it.
Smile.
Brit Bloke wrote:
<quoted text>
I did address it I said and I quote they do good but it is conversation by the softly softly approach. You however have addressed none of my questions. It is impossible to converse with you as with most people like you it is avoidance to defend my believe. You sad sad person with a closed mind. Please read all my other posts and try to give some sort of reasoning to my questions. Sorry I know this is wrong of me to ask as you you are UN able by blind faith.
So you agree that Christians do good. Now you should apologize for slandering them.

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#27382 Aug 25, 2014
Suculent-dry wrote:
<quoted text>
You first must provide accurate proof that he existed at all.
I highly suspect you can't.:)
I suppose you believe in conspiracy theories and such. What is the chance that Jesus never existed?

The majority viewpoint among scholars is that Jesus existed. Bart Ehrman has claimed that Jesus certainly existed, and that "virtually every competent scholar" agrees with him. Richard A. Burridge has stated that he does not know of any "respectable critical scholar" who still argues that there never was a Jesus at all. Classical historian Michael Grant said that, in recent years, "no serious scholar" has ventured to postulate the non-historicity of Jesus.[5][7][8]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historicity_of_J...

5:^ Jump up to: a b c While discussing the "striking" fact that "we don't have any Roman records, of any kind, that attest to the existence of Jesus," Ehrman dismisses claims that this means Jesus never existed, saying, "He certainly existed, as virtually every competent scholar of antiquity, Christian or non-Christian, agrees, based on clear and certain evidence." B. Ehrman, 2011 Forged : writing in the name of God ISBN 978-0-06-207863-6. page 285

7:^ Jump up to: a b c Michael Grant (a classicist) states that "In recent years,'no serious scholar has ventured to postulate the non historicity of Jesus' or at any rate very few, and they have not succeeded in disposing of the much stronger, indeed very abundant, evidence to the contrary." in Jesus: An Historian's Review of the Gospels by Michael Grant 2004 ISBN 1898799881 page 200

8:^ Jump up to: a b c Richard A. Burridge states: "There are those who argue that Jesus is a figment of the Church’s imagination, that there never was a Jesus at all. I have to say that I do not know any respectable critical scholar who says that any more." in Jesus Now and Then by Richard A. Burridge and Graham Gould (Apr 1, 2004) ISBN 0802809774 page 34

Flavius Josephus

According to his Wikipedia entry:“Titus Flavius Josephus (37 – c. 100), was a 1st-century Romano-Jewish historian and hagiographer of priestly and royal ancestry who recorded Jewish history, with special emphasis on the 1st century AD and the First Jewish–Roman War, which resulted in the Destruction of Jerusalem and its temple in 70.”



His most important works were The Jewish War (c. 75) and Antiquities of the Jews (c. 94). The Jewish War recounts the Jewish revolt against Roman occupation (66–70). Antiquities of the Jews recounts the history of the world from a Jewish perspective for an ostensibly Roman audience. These works provide valuable insight into 1st century Judaism and the background of Early Christianity.

Josephus was a Jew who did not believe in Jesus Christ as the Son of God or Christianity. In The Antiquities of the Jews, book 18, chapter 3, paragraph 3 the famous historian Flavius Josephus writes:

http://beginningandend.com/jesus-exist-histor...

“KiMare'a the Monster Mutation”

Since: Nov 10

Location hidden

#27383 Aug 25, 2014
Brit Bloke wrote:
<quoted text>
I did address it I said and I quote they do good but it is conversation by the softly softly approach. You however have addressed none of my questions. It is impossible to converse with you as with most people like you it is avoidance to defend my believe. You sad sad person with a closed mind. Please read all my other posts and try to give some sort of reasoning to my questions. Sorry I know this is wrong of me to ask as you you are UN able by blind faith.
Exodus 33:18-23 (NASB)
18 Then Moses said, "I pray You, show me Your glory!"
19 And He said, "I Myself will make all My goodness pass before you, and will proclaim the name of the LORD before you; and I will be gracious to whom I will be gracious, and will show compassion on whom I will show compassion."
20 But He said, "You cannot see My face, for no man can see Me and live!"
21 Then the LORD said, "Behold, there is a place by Me, and you shall stand there on the rock;
22 and it will come about, while My glory is passing by, that I will put you in the cleft of the rock and cover you with My hand until I have passed by.
23 "Then I will take My hand away and you shall see My back, but My face shall not be seen."

Note;
-Seeing God was a life-threatening danger.
-God used three forms of protection for the radiation;
Behind a rock
Shielded with His hand
Only allowed a partial view (back)

Exodus 34:29-35 (NASB)
29 It came about when Moses was coming down from Mount Sinai (and the two tablets of the testimony were in Moses' hand as he was coming down from the mountain), that Moses did not know that the skin of his face shone because of his speaking with Him.
30 So when Aaron and all the sons of Israel saw Moses, behold, the skin of his face shone, and they were afraid to come near him.
31 Then Moses called to them, and Aaron and all the rulers in the congregation returned to him; and Moses spoke to them.
32 Afterward all the sons of Israel came near, and he commanded them to do everything that the LORD had spoken to him on Mount Sinai.
33 When Moses had finished speaking with them, he put a veil over his face.
34 But whenever Moses went in before the LORD to speak with Him, he would take off the veil until he came out; and whenever he came out and spoke to the sons of Israel what he had been commanded,
35 the sons of Israel would see the face of Moses, that the skin of Moses' face shone. So Moses would replace the veil over his face until he went in to speak with Him.

Note; The effect of radiation.

Please explain how a accurate description of radiation's danger, affect and protection appeared in a story about a Alien visiting humans in a fiction book written by numerous authors, distorted by time and translation occurred.

Smile.

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#27384 Aug 25, 2014
Prove the following are lies. They are hard evidence that the historical Jesus existed.

“Now, there was about this time Jesus, a wise man, if it be lawful to call him a man, for he was a doer of wonderful works—a teacher of such men as receive the truth with pleasure. He drew over to him both many of the Jews, and many of the Gentiles. He was [the] Christ; and when Pilate, at the suggestion of the principal men amongst us, had condemned him to the cross, those that loved him at the first did not forsake him, for he appeared to them alive again the third day, as the divine prophets had foretold these and ten thousand other wonderful things concerning him; and the tribe of Christians, so named from him, are not extinct at this day.”

“But the younger Ananus who, as we said, received the high priesthood, was of a bold disposition and exceptionally daring; he followed the party of the Sadducees, who are severe in judgment above all the Jews, as we have already shown. As therefore Ananus was of such a disposition, he thought he had now a good opportunity, as Festus was now dead, and Albinus was still on the road; so he assembled a council of judges, and brought before it the brother of Jesus the so-called Christ, whose name was James, together with some others, and having accused them as law-breakers, he delivered them over to be stoned.”

http://beginningandend.com/jesus-exist-histor...

CORNELIUS TACITUS (55 - 120 A.D.) Tacitus was a 1st and 2nd century Roman historian who lived through the reigns of over half a dozen
Roman emperors. Considered one of the greatest historians of ancient Rome, Tacitus verifies the Biblical account of Jesus' execution at the
hands of Pontius Pilate who governed Judea from 26-36 A.D. during the reign of Tiberius.

"Christus, the founder of the [Christian] name, was put to death by Pontius Pilate, procurator of Judea in the reign of Tiberius. But the
pernicious superstition, repressed for a time, broke out again, not only through Judea, where the mischief originated, by through the city of
Rome also." Annals XV, 44

http://www.thedevineevidence.com/jesus_histor...

GAIUS SUETONIUS TRANQUILLUS (69 - 130 A.D.) Suetonius was a prominent Roman historian who recorded the lives of the Roman
Caesars and the historical events surrounding their reigns. He served as a court official under Hadrian and as an annalist for the Imperial
House. Suetonius records the expulsion of the Christian Jews from Rome (mentioned in Acts 18:2) and confirms the Christian faith being
founded by Christ.

"As the Jews were making constant disturbances at the instigation of Chrestus,[Claudius] expelled them from Rome." Life of Claudius 25.4

http://www.thedevineevidence.com/jesus_histor...

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#27385 Aug 25, 2014
KiMare wrote:
<quoted text>
Exodus 33:18-23 (NASB)
18 Then Moses said, "I pray You, show me Your glory!"
19 And He said, "I Myself will make all My goodness pass before you, and will proclaim the name of the LORD before you; and I will be gracious to whom I will be gracious, and will show compassion on whom I will show compassion."
20 But He said, "You cannot see My face, for no man can see Me and live!"
21 Then the LORD said, "Behold, there is a place by Me, and you shall stand there on the rock;
22 and it will come about, while My glory is passing by, that I will put you in the cleft of the rock and cover you with My hand until I have passed by.
23 "Then I will take My hand away and you shall see My back, but My face shall not be seen."
Note;
-Seeing God was a life-threatening danger.
-God used three forms of protection for the radiation;
Behind a rock
Shielded with His hand
Only allowed a partial view (back)
Exodus 34:29-35 (NASB)
29 It came about when Moses was coming down from Mount Sinai (and the two tablets of the testimony were in Moses' hand as he was coming down from the mountain), that Moses did not know that the skin of his face shone because of his speaking with Him.
30 So when Aaron and all the sons of Israel saw Moses, behold, the skin of his face shone, and they were afraid to come near him.
31 Then Moses called to them, and Aaron and all the rulers in the congregation returned to him; and Moses spoke to them.
32 Afterward all the sons of Israel came near, and he commanded them to do everything that the LORD had spoken to him on Mount Sinai.
33 When Moses had finished speaking with them, he put a veil over his face.
34 But whenever Moses went in before the LORD to speak with Him, he would take off the veil until he came out; and whenever he came out and spoke to the sons of Israel what he had been commanded,
35 the sons of Israel would see the face of Moses, that the skin of Moses' face shone. So Moses would replace the veil over his face until he went in to speak with Him.
Note; The effect of radiation.
Please explain how a accurate description of radiation's danger, affect and protection appeared in a story about a Alien visiting humans in a fiction book written by numerous authors, distorted by time and translation occurred.
Smile.
Who the hell cares?
Brit Bloke

Albufeira, Portugal

#27387 Aug 25, 2014
KiMare wrote:
KiMare wrote:
<quoted text>
You started by claiming religion was harmful. I pointed out what Christians are doing every week in communities across our country. You ignored addressing it.
Smile.
<quoted text>
So you agree that Christians do good. Now you should apologize for slandering them.
Once again you pick up on one tiny scrap of hope to defend your indoctrination. I take back none of my factually corroborated evidence that in the name of your faith hundreds of thousands of people have been killed. You as a modern day Christian may in your head think you are doing good but your are still trying to convert people to your fairy tale.
Just like the slave trade just because we don't do it now we cannot ignore as a nation we did it just because we try to help Africa with aid.
Benjamo84

Edmonton, Canada

#27388 Aug 26, 2014
Brit Bloke wrote:
<quoted text>
Our seem like a nice guy but just the way you right shows that you have been indoctrinated and brain washed. I am sorry but you will fall into one of my three categories for a religious person. Please try and answer some of my previous questions.
You right about your creator I don't claim to know better than him I simply question his existence.
You talk of Jesus as if he has spoken to you. If you are using scriptures that have been written about Jesus then I hope you know as well as I do the first ones written about him are over 300 years after his death . These cannot be corroborated or trusted as his words yet you some how choose to run your life on this. I Wouldn't trust something written 300 years ago from now little lone 1700 years ago the modern bible was invented around king James time and has probably had hundreds of interpretations before and since then. Please please wake up and realise what it is you are actually saying. These are nothing more than fairy tales you base your belief on. I am sorry but there is no creator Jesus may of lived but you cannot trust what has been written about his life little lone spoke.
Hi, thank you for taking the time to respond I know I had said a lot and I noticed you had some fun changing the word truth to washed. Funny enough I am okay with being indoctrinated as you put it or washed. You said you wanted scripture here it is, we are to made new in the attitude of our minds.(out will the old in with the new, no more sulking, yeah) Ephesians in chapter 4 verses 23 and 24. I will let you look it up to save time and test to see that it is truly there. You may also want to consider adding me as a friend on KiK if you want a more closed convo. I couldn't find any of your questions sorry.

I know it is a letter to Ephesus from the apostle Paul but you see Jesus may have left Paul but the spirit remained with him encouraging him in much the same way. I think Jesus became a neccisary bridge for people to God as I could see some people saying that God wouldn't truly know what it meant to be a human until he lived in our shoes. Another thing we probably would agree on is the way in which some people behave poorly when under a shroud of indoctrination and so I will leave you with a warning I learned over the years which explains some indoctrinated people. Never read the bible without inviting the Heavenly Father to give you the right interpretation, other words a person will act according to the whim of their fleshly desires which is especially distasteful when seen from pronouncing Christians. Like I said past experiences I've made I'm sure but I try to be more real living in reality.
NoahLovesU

Bossier City, LA

#27389 Aug 26, 2014
Well I'm going to use the Catholic Faith to back homosexuality.
Catholics frequently say god is outside of space and time; he is infinite. They also say god is love. This directly means love is infinite and outside of space and time. That's true. Can you measure love? So how could love between two males be any different than love between a man and a wonan? It's the same love.
also, People love to say "oh homosexuality isn't natural. Males were brought into existance to fertilize females and procreate." This is right in all animals, EXCEPT humans.
look at the majority of sex humans have. Is it to make babies or out of love? Humans are having sex not to have babies most of the time. So... humans have a recognition of self and the ability to love on another.
Sex is how two humans show affection and LOVE. So. We have learned that sex isn't just about reproducing. It is Actually more in the brain than in the sex organs.
the brain is the largest sex organ in the human body. This officially rules out homosexuality being unnatural because no other species of animal besides humans has a recognition of self.
kthxbai
NoahLovesU

Bossier City, LA

#27390 Aug 26, 2014
Religion is just simply humanity's attempt at explaining the unexplainable. As well as an attempt at trying to set standards and norms. finally it is also human's way of living as if they actually matter to some degree in this universe.
if jesus or god or whatever really did govern this universe then, why the fuck would he care about earth? earth is literally 1/10000000000000000000 of the universe. And also among another billion planets that support life.(yes i know we havent found life anywhere else. but that is because we have barely even explored our own galexy. there are trillions of galexies) People just want a reason to live.
i myself try to be as positive and peaceful as possible. I do not believe in organized religion, yet I am more humble than any christian I know.
i still dont understand the point of worshipping a human. Much less believing the word of humans 2000 years ago. back then they still believed the earth was fucking flat...

“KiMare'a the Monster Mutation”

Since: Nov 10

Location hidden

#27391 Aug 26, 2014
Brit Bloke wrote:
<quoted text>
Once again you pick up on one tiny scrap of hope to defend your indoctrination. I take back none of my factually corroborated evidence that in the name of your faith hundreds of thousands of people have been killed. You as a modern day Christian may in your head think you are doing good but your are still trying to convert people to your fairy tale.
Just like the slave trade just because we don't do it now we cannot ignore as a nation we did it just because we try to help Africa with aid.
You have posted no evidence because there is none.

You ignored the fact that Christianity was at the front of ending slavery. Moreover there is more slavery in the world today than ever in history. Christianity stands virtually alone in fighting it.

You will need to validate your claims from now on or I will not waste time responding.

Smile.
Brit Bloke

Albufeira, Portugal

#27392 Aug 26, 2014
KiMare wrote:
<quoted text>
You have posted no evidence because there is none.
You ignored the fact that Christianity was at the front of ending slavery. Moreover there is more slavery in the world today than ever in history. Christianity stands virtually alone in fighting it.
You will need to validate your claims from now on or I will not waste time responding.
Smile.
Forgive are you actually saying that these things did not happen and all these people did not die in the name of Christianity? If you are please don't waste my time any more as your madness is complete. You will want us all to believe the 2nd world war did not happen and neither did the holocaust.
One again all you have done is pick up on one small thing that I gave as an example. Leave the defence of your faith to some one who is able to reason logically.
No batty business

London, UK

#27393 Aug 26, 2014
REPENT
Brit Bloke

Albufeira, Portugal

#27394 Aug 26, 2014
KiMare wrote:
<quoted text>
Exodus 33:18-23 (NASB)
18 Then Moses said, "I pray You, show me Your glory!"
19 And He said, "I Myself will make all My goodness pass before you, and will proclaim the name of the LORD before you; and I will be gracious to whom I will be gracious, and will show compassion on whom I will show compassion."
20 But He said, "You cannot see My face, for no man can see Me and live!"
21 Then the LORD said, "Behold, there is a place by Me, and you shall stand there on the rock;
22 and it will come about, while My glory is passing by, that I will put you in the cleft of the rock and cover you with My hand until I have passed by.
23 "Then I will take My hand away and you shall see My back, but My face shall not be seen."
Note;
-Seeing God was a life-threatening danger.
-God used three forms of protection for the radiation;
Behind a rock
Shielded with His hand
Only allowed a partial view (back)
Exodus 34:29-35 (NASB)
29 It came about when Moses was coming down from Mount Sinai (and the two tablets of the testimony were in Moses' hand as he was coming down from the mountain), that Moses did not know that the skin of his face shone because of his speaking with Him.
30 So when Aaron and all the sons of Israel saw Moses, behold, the skin of his face shone, and they were afraid to come near him.
31 Then Moses called to them, and Aaron and all the rulers in the congregation returned to him; and Moses spoke to them.
32 Afterward all the sons of Israel came near, and he commanded them to do everything that the LORD had spoken to him on Mount Sinai.
33 When Moses had finished speaking with them, he put a veil over his face.
34 But whenever Moses went in before the LORD to speak with Him, he would take off the veil until he came out; and whenever he came out and spoke to the sons of Israel what he had been commanded,
35 the sons of Israel would see the face of Moses, that the skin of Moses' face shone. So Moses would replace the veil over his face until he went in to speak with Him.
Note; The effect of radiation.
Please explain how a accurate description of radiation's danger, affect and protection appeared in a story about a Alien visiting humans in a fiction book written by numerous authors, distorted by time and translation occurred.
Smile.
I explain it exactly as the bible works it can't ,neither can the bible explain about God or Jesus well done you finally understand they are they are both works of fiction.
You use your fairy tale book to try and explain its characters. Try to use facts and corroborated evidence. Then we can have a good discussion.

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