So, What Is It That The Anti-Gay Groups Actually Fear?

Aug 17, 2012 | Posted by: Sei | Full story: lezgetreal.com

What makes hate, well, hate? Given that today is something of a quiet news day, it may be nice to give ourselves a breather and think about some things.

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“Shoot for the stars”

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#6573
Oct 12, 2012
 

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Pattiecake58 wrote:
<quoted text>
who on earth fed you such a load of lies and hooey?
IF you sit there and say the Gospels were not written by the authors, then you are calling the word of GOD a lie.
you are dismissing Matthew, Mark, Luke and John as not being the disciples of GOD and recording their PERSONAL ONE ON ONE experiences with the Messiah.
you are calling James, Peter, Paul, and Timothy and even Jude who was a bondservant of Chirst as ALL liars.
are you sure you want to seal your soul in such as that?
you open a bible to 1 John 1:1-5
first John, and you read the testimony of JOHN swearing an oath that THEY saw, touched, heard, wittnessed all that occured with Jesus.
i want you to SHOW ME PROOF of the catholics WRITING the scriptures as you just said.
there was no such thing as catholics or constatine during the centuries between Jesus ascention to heaven and the distruction of the 2 temple in 70AD
PLUS we have FRAGMENTS and SHARDS of the ORIGINAL texts of the NT.
thats how it came it be.
your catholics did not WRITE the scriptures.
thats blasphemy. And to dispute the scriptures is to dispute GOD Himself.
read Isaiah 55:11
There's the library and college courses in world religion you should take, that's if you can even make it into college, to learn about the evolution of religions, especially Christianity and when and how the bible was put together. You can pretend all you want, but you don't know jack sh!t about history.

I never posted that Constantine or Catholics were around during Jesus. I also didn't post that the Catholics wrote the scriptures, but I did post that they edited and compiled, moron. It's obvious you can't comprehend either. Why don't you show us all proof where any of the apostles signed any of the gospels. There is none because scriptures were written 100 years after Jesus and the apostles were dead by unknown writers called "ghost writers" in today's terms.

“Engaged to the love of my life”

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#6574
Oct 12, 2012
 

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RatherBeInMissouri wrote:
The only person that has answered my questions is an athiest... They rest of you haters afraid of having your polarity of your moral compass corrected?
God's "disapproval" aside,
what makes murder immoral?
Or rape?
Or stealing?
Or adultery?
Or homosexuality?
Just testing your moral compass...
want to see if you really understand what that is.
I'll have at it as well then. I have a simple take on this. I am an atheist as well, and I take my morals from common sense and basic knowledge.

When something is immoral, it is harming others that are not within the consenting party. The only time it would be considered immoral within the consenting party is if the acts would end in the loss of a life or extreme mutilation.

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#6575
Oct 12, 2012
 

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RatherBeInMissouri wrote:
<quoted text>
I think we should start a new thread.
"Why is it that the anti-gays can rarely write a sentence that makes sense, much less use logical thinking?"
Or
"Does bigotry cause memory loss and cognitive damage?"
Saw this today and thought it was interesting.

http://abcnews.go.com/Health/cross-closet-str...

“Engaged to the love of my life”

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Oct 12, 2012
 

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Sorry, I mean to add that when one is in a consenting party, they are also adults. For it is scientifically proven that minors can not make certain important decisions on their own for lack of experiences that lead up to certain choices.

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Oct 12, 2012
 

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Pattiecake58 wrote:
<quoted text>
thats what i meant, when i opened my email the message was on it to notify me you sent one on topix.
but i didn't respond at the time because it was after the difficulties with the email address i was using.
just didn't want you to think i was being rude and ignoring it.
ok

“Shoot for the stars”

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RatherBeInMissouri wrote:
The only person that has answered my questions is an athiest... They rest of you haters afraid of having your polarity of your moral compass corrected?
God's "disapproval" aside,
what makes murder immoral?
Or rape?
Or stealing?
Or adultery?
Or homosexuality?
Just testing your moral compass...
want to see if you really understand what that is.
My answer is human emotions and a book doesn't supply that.

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RatherBeInMissouri wrote:
The only person that has answered my questions is an athiest... They rest of you haters afraid of having your polarity of your moral compass corrected?
Murder is immoral because it is harming someone and is something that, except if you are suicidal, you would not want someone to do to you.

Man indiscriminately killed others for any reason, and then man noticed that when he killed others it placed himself and his family in mortal danger also, so he concluded it would be safer if killing other people was wrong, so that they wouldn't kill him, except if they broke the law, and man made laws to prevent such from happening.

Rape is wrong because it is forcing an act on another person that they do not want, and thus harming them. As above if the role was reversed you wouldn't want to be harmed in that way.

Stealing is wrong because you are upset if you lose something, that belongs to you, because someone else stole it, so man decided that if was better for all if people did not take what didn't belong to them.

Adultery is wrong, because the person, or people, who are committing adultery, are giving their commitment to another person that the partner, in marriage, or in a common-law arrangement indicated they would do only with their partner, thus they are endangering the partnership arrangement because they may decide that the person with whom they are committing adultery is someone they would prefer to be with, and thus the first partner gets abandoned.

I think adultery as an immoral act is situational, as the simple physical act of two people having sex together should be okay as long as both are okay with it, and they don't exclude their own partners from anything in life that they would be giving them, if they were remaining entirely faithful.

The problem lies in the fact humans tend to switch allegiances very easily, so it weakens the family unit and thus creates ultimately a problem in society, in that children are scattered, with only one parent, or sometimes neither parent, when children need some continuity in their lives as they grow up.

We have an ultimate responsibility to society to not break down the structure, so that the next generation have the same opportunities as we did.

Homosexuality is not immoral but rather an abnormality in the usual sexual orientation of humans. The homosexual desires to have an intimate and/or sexual relationship with a member of the same sex rather than the opposite sex, which most people desire.

Since these people are not suited to a heterosexual relationship, because they don't have the desire and thus would not have the commitment, they are being more moral to listen to their desires, and form unions with those they desire There is less chance of unhappiness and conflict if they choose who they want to be with, rather than following some artificial 'moral' guidelines.

Likely the true test of anything as to whether it is right or wrong, is will it cause harm to others. Aside from the normal chance of an infected person infecting another person, which all people face when they become sexually intimate, homosexual acts between two consenting adults harms no one.

Any moral values that man has were only adapted because man chose to adapt those as moral values. The fact that people of differing backgrounds from different parts of the earth have some different views about right and wrong, indicates these views were created by man, not by some god who set down laws for all men.

I think that man created gods or a god to answer, for himself, unanswered questions, which in the early stages of human history, would cover most things. Man assumed since he couldn't understand something, that something invisible must control it. Later man adapted these beliefs into rules and used this invisible God to enforce those rules, by instilling fear in other men, of what this God would do to them if they didn't obey man's laws.

“What came 1st? Stupid or bigot”

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Oct 12, 2012
 

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RatherBeInMissouri wrote:
The only person that has answered my questions is an athiest... They rest of you haters afraid of having your polarity of your moral compass corrected?
God's "disapproval" aside,
what makes murder immoral?
Or rape?
Or stealing?
Or adultery?
Or homosexuality?
Just testing your moral compass...
want to see if you really understand what that is.
Lacez wrote:
<quoted text>
I'll have at it as well then. I have a simple take on this. I am an atheist as well, and I take my morals from common sense and basic knowledge.
When something is immoral, it is harming others that are not within the consenting party. The only time it would be considered immoral within the consenting party is if the acts would end in the loss of a life or extreme mutilation.
So... the answers these questions have gotten so far lead me to beleive:

1. Morality is common sense. it does not require any kind of religious affiliation or background

2. The only reason given by the other side of what makes homosexuality immoral, is that "The Bible says so."

Therefore, homosexuality can't be immoral because it does not fit the definition of non religious affiliated immorality, and religious morality cannot demonstrate an explanation of how homosexuality fits into a category with other immoralities.
"The Bible says so" is not good enough because it is not reliable, outdated, edited, and homosexuality does not even fit the definition of religious or secular "morality."

That being said.....

Why are there an isolated few adamantly anti gay people so freaked out/ stressed out and offended by a few gay people??

“What came 1st? Stupid or bigot”

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Oct 12, 2012
 

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Peace-Love-Happiness wrote:
<quoted text>
Saw this today and thought it was interesting.
http://abcnews.go.com/Health/cross-closet-str...
Very interesting. thanks for sharing that.

oh an look, all that exposure and the guy was never "recruited" or converted. lol

“What came 1st? Stupid or bigot”

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Oct 12, 2012
 

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boooots wrote:
<quoted text>
*snipped for length*
...Homosexuality is not immoral but rather an abnormality in the usual sexual orientation of humans. The homosexual desires to have an intimate and/or sexual relationship with a member of the same sex rather than the opposite sex, which most people desire.
Since these people are not suited to a heterosexual relationship, because they don't have the desire and thus would not have the commitment, they are being more moral to listen to their desires, and form unions with those they desire There is less chance of unhappiness and conflict if they choose who they want to be with, rather than following some artificial 'moral' guidelines.
Likely the true test of anything as to whether it is right or wrong, is will it cause harm to others. Aside from the normal chance of an infected person infecting another person, which all people face when they become sexually intimate, homosexual acts between two consenting adults harms no one.
Any moral values that man has were only adapted because man chose to adapt those as moral values. The fact that people of differing backgrounds from different parts of the earth have some different views about right and wrong, indicates these views were created by man, not by some god who set down laws for all men.
I think that man created gods or a god to answer, for himself, unanswered questions, which in the early stages of human history, would cover most things. Man assumed since he couldn't understand something, that something invisible must control it. Later man adapted these beliefs into rules and used this invisible God to enforce those rules, by instilling fear in other men, of what this God would do to them if they didn't obey man's laws.
Excellent! Thank you!
And you bring up an interesting concept. It is MORE moral for a homosexual to pursue relationships with someone they are attracted to and interested in, in order to have a more fulfilling expereience for both involved.
I agree.
It would be causing undue harm to both the homosexual and the opposite sex person they might attempt to have a "normal" heterosexual relationship with because the bond, attraction, interest, care, committment and basis of a stable and healthy relationship would not be there. Causing undue harm is generally an immoral act.
So forcing a homosexual to "repent" and live a heterosexual life with heterosexual relationship(s) is an immoral act in itself.
Very thought provoking. thank you for your response.

“KiMare'a the Monster Mutation”

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DNF wrote:
<quoted text>tell ya what. when you explain the off topic subject of why some straight men like to wear women's clothes or why some gay men like drag and others prefer leather, or why some straight women dress in those horrible "Mom" jeans
then we'll talk.
Given that you have yet to answer any of my questions and I have answered everyone of yours, it is clear you have no answers.

Sexuality occurs on a spectrum, with a 4% crossover point at GLBT's. Straight men with a propensity toward feminine behavior and appearance show a proximity to the feminine side. Same on the female side.

The clear evidence that it is a defect, is that same sex behavior is a absolute bottle cap on perpetuation of genetic code.

Now, without any more whining or excuses, answer my questions.

“KiMare'a the Monster Mutation”

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Oct 12, 2012
 

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KiMare wrote:
RatherBeInMissouri wrote:
Still not even an ATTEMPT at answering these questions??
RatherBeInMissouri wrote:
I don't beleive I ever saw a response from almighty jedi to this question:
God's "disapproval" aside,
what makes murder immoral?
Or rape?
Or stealing?
Or adultery?
Or homosexuality?
Just testing your moral compass... want to see if you really understand what that is.
<quoted text>
Interesting.
A inherently harmful, unhealthy and demeaning act, done by 'consenting' adults against each other is okay?
I'll 'take a stab' and say there is not only a moral problem, there is a psychological problem for someone to perpetrate harm on another, and another to allow violation (in the name of love).
The simplest and most common form of morality is 'do no harm'. Medical doctors say the only safe anal sex is no anal sex.
Marengo Jon wrote:
<quoted text>
He never mentioned anal sex at all. And yet, you chose to base your entire response on the assumption all gay men who are married practice anal sex.
Interesting that you choose to go directly there....
I answered the question with specifically what was immoral about homosexuality. A key behavior.

That is simple logic. You seek to insinuate something off topic because you have no logical argument with my reasoning. It is also why you lied about my answer. I never assumed anything about married gay men.

Why do you need to use diversion, distortion and deceit to defend your position?

Interesting...

“KiMare'a the Monster Mutation”

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RatherBeInMissouri wrote:
The only person that has answered my questions is an athiest... They rest of you haters afraid of having your polarity of your moral compass corrected?
God's "disapproval" aside,
what makes murder immoral?
Or rape?
Or stealing?
Or adultery?
Or homosexuality?
Just testing your moral compass...
want to see if you really understand what that is.
See my post 6549

“What came 1st? Stupid or bigot”

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#6586
Oct 12, 2012
 

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KiMare wrote:
KiMare wrote:
RatherBeInMissouri wrote:
Still not even an ATTEMPT at answering these questions??
RatherBeInMissouri wrote:
I don't beleive I ever saw a response from almighty jedi to this question:
God's "disapproval" aside,
what makes murder immoral?
Or rape?
Or stealing?
Or adultery?
Or homosexuality?
Just testing your moral compass... want to see if you really understand what that is.
<quoted text>
Interesting.
A inherently harmful, unhealthy and demeaning act, done by 'consenting' adults against each other is okay?
I'll 'take a stab' and say there is not only a moral problem, there is a psychological problem for someone to perpetrate harm on another, and another to allow violation (in the name of love).
The simplest and most common form of morality is 'do no harm'. Medical doctors say the only safe anal sex is no anal sex.
<quoted text>
I answered the question with specifically what was immoral about homosexuality. A key behavior.
That is simple logic. You seek to insinuate something off topic because you have no logical argument with my reasoning. It is also why you lied about my answer. I never assumed anything about married gay men.
Why do you need to use diversion, distortion and deceit to defend your position?
Interesting...
No, you explained what you think is immoral about anal sex.

That's not what I asked.

keeping in mind that not all gay people engage in anal sex, and some gay people are WOMEN, who also don't engage in anal sex, answer the questions.
What makes these things immoral? What makes homosexuality in itself, no mention of anl sex, IMMORAL?

pay attention. you're looking the fool.

“KiMare'a the Monster Mutation”

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#6587
Oct 12, 2012
 

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EdmondWA wrote:
<quoted text>
No, something that is harmful, unhealthy or demeaning is not generally okay.
Fortunately, there's NOTHING inherently harmful, unhealthy or demeaning about a relationship between two people of the same gender. You don't get to just arbitrarly tack on whatever adjectives you like. You're grossly misrepresenting people that you know nothing about.
<quoted text>
I don't know what "harm" you're talking about. Is it the "harm" of presuming that you know better about how someone else should live their life?
<quoted text>
That's actually slightly TOO simple. It's more accurate to avoid any UNDESERVED or UNWANTED harm. Even sadomasochists should be given freedom to "harm" themselves if that's what they choose. There's no morality in telling them how to live, if they aren't harming anyone OUTSIDE the relationship.
<quoted text>
Tell that to all the straight people enjoying anal sex.
Even if it WERE harmful (but it isn't), you need to leave it up to the people who are IN the relationship to determine that for themselves. You have not been appointed to run around to everyone's relationship, warning them that you think they're harming each other. If they LOVE it, and they NEVER see any harmful results, then your place is to tend to your OWN relationships.
I'm reading your link to the MSU pubertal hormone study. Quite a big article, I have other things to do, so it'll take some time. In the meantime, I ran a quick word-find search on the page, and found no instances of the words "molest", "homosexual", "erotic", or "burn" (from your phrase "brain burn").
I know that you'll say that you're NOT claiming that molestation is the cause of homosexuality. So, what am I looking for? Can you summarize what it is that YOU found interesting, especially if you DON'T think that molestation causes homosexuality? If the point of the study doesn't even support this notion, then what point do you think is being made? What are you hoping I'll take away from this?
Also, what is the source of the term "brain burn"? I can't find ANY "laymen" online who use it.
Giving your opinion it's deserved weight, most people find harming another person under any condition immoral. And someone who excuses that as doubly so.

Within the debate of sexuality is always the tension between nature and nurture. Most believe it is a mix of the two. The article explains key elements of puberty 'burning'(my term in reference) new paths. Do outside forces also influence? Most people involved in sexuality issues think so.

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RatherBeInMissouri wrote:
<quoted text>
Very interesting. thanks for sharing that.
oh an look, all that exposure and the guy was never "recruited" or converted. lol
People can't be "recruited" to be gay or lesbian. Homophobes who think that's possible are sad, pitiful creatures.

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RatherBeInMissouri wrote:
<quoted text>
No, you explained what you think is immoral about anal sex.
That's not what I asked.
keeping in mind that not all gay people engage in anal sex, and some gay people are WOMEN, who also don't engage in anal sex, answer the questions.
What makes these things immoral? What makes homosexuality in itself, no mention of anl sex, IMMORAL?
pay attention. you're looking the fool.
We've been asking it (KiMare) the same thing for awhile, why it can't differentiate from gay people and anal sex.

On a side note, I found a wonderful little video explaining the traditional biblical marriage, if you'd care to see it:
http://youtu.be/OFkeKKszXTw

“...”

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As an atheist who doesn't care what people do in their own lives- I'm all for gay marriage. But having religious family members- it's a god thing. To them it's wrong in gods eyes. Or something. But even my family- as religious as they are- respect others. These fuck nutts need something better to do. Maybe get laid or something. IMO

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RatherBeInMissouri wrote:
<quoted text>
Excellent! Thank you!
And you bring up an interesting concept. It is MORE moral for a homosexual to pursue relationships with someone they are attracted to and interested in, in order to have a more fulfilling expereience for both involved.
I agree.
It would be causing undue harm to both the homosexual and the opposite sex person they might attempt to have a "normal" heterosexual relationship with because the bond, attraction, interest, care, committment and basis of a stable and healthy relationship would not be there. Causing undue harm is generally an immoral act.
So forcing a homosexual to "repent" and live a heterosexual life with heterosexual relationship(s) is an immoral act in itself.
Very thought provoking. thank you for your response.
Thank you for your comment about my response.:)

“KiMare'a the Monster Mutation”

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RatherBeInMissouri wrote:
<quoted text>
No, you explained what you think is immoral about anal sex.
That's not what I asked.
keeping in mind that not all gay people engage in anal sex, and some gay people are WOMEN, who also don't engage in anal sex, answer the questions.
What makes these things immoral? What makes homosexuality in itself, no mention of anl sex, IMMORAL?
pay attention. you're looking the fool.
You asked what was wrong with a list of behaviors.

I answered with a behavior that primarily identifies male homosexuality. Completely within the context of your question.

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