Why Are We Being Forced To Accept Hom...

“Marriage Equality”

Since: Dec 07

Lakeland, MI

#256 Jan 14, 2014
Tony wrote:
....eJohn - I see your point, but then is this just about the ability to marry?
Pretty much. We're being banned from marrying the person of our choice because *someone else* believes they have the right to dictate to us who we can and cannot marry. How would you feel if someone was passing laws and constitutional amendments against *your* right to marry the person of your choice?
Tony wrote:
Tell me more of these equal protections that gays seek, particularly the ones not related to marriage.
Here's the list of them, directly from the Government Accounting Office. All 1,100+ of them:

http://www.gao.gov/new.items/d04353r.pdf

I don't follow your question about equal protections that aren't related to marriage. We're simply seeking equal protections under the law, as proscribed by the Federal Constitution. Shouldn't everyone get that?
Tony wrote:
I think the marriage question is valid. Also, can you accept that some people think being gay is strange and/or abnormal?
Of course. And I absolutely believe that many other people are strange and/or abnormal. Have you ever seen Honey Boo-Boo??? Octo-Mom?? The Duggars??? The difference is that I'm not trying to pass laws with the intent of disadvantaging people that I have a negative personal opinion of. They are.
Tony wrote:
Why is it that someone with a differing opinion is immediately disparaged and labeled a hater?
Because in order to have a negative opinion of someone else that you wish to codify into a law that strips them of equal protections a person pretty much has to BE a hater, don't they? Wouldn't you find it pretty hateful if I were to try and pass laws that stripped you of your equal protections just because I don't like something about you?
Tony wrote:
People don't want to feel as if they are being forced to stay quiet or have a particular view - just as gays should be free to express themselves, others should be provided the same courtesy without fear of retribution.
Again, the difference is that gay people aren't trying to strip legal protections from or use the government to persecute people that harbor anti-gay feelings. That can't be said for those that harbor anti-gay feelings, can it?? They attack and lie and do everything in their power to disparage the gay community, yet we do nothing to harm them.

We simply want them to leave us alone and to have our government, that we support with our tax dollars, too, to provide us with the same legal protections that everyone else has. When was the last time you saw a gay person try to rally millions of voters to vote away the civil rights of a minority group? Never. When was the last time you saw a "christian" do it?
Tony wrote:
Opinions should be welcomed, as they are discussion and only with continued discussion can we understand each other better.
Agreed 100%. But it's hard to have discussions with people that have no problem lying and distorting "facts" to disparage people they don't like, isn't it? When the other side ignores facts and reality and simply spews lies and hate, there's not much point in trying to have a reasonable discussion, is there?

Again, the major difference is that gay people aren't seeking to make anyone else live a lifestyle that's any different from the one they choose to live. That's simply not the case with our opposition. Their sole aim is to force gay people to live the lifestyle that *THEY* have chosen and not the one that we see as right for ourselves. In short, they can't keep their nose out of other people's business and, yeah, I find that pretty disgusting.

Since: Apr 11

Panorama City, CA

#257 Jan 14, 2014
Tony wrote:
Wow, such venom...kind of just proves my point...no one can have a differing opinion. lides - I start by explaining that I am not gay but fine with others being gay. I do this so you know from where I am coming. This is meant to be helpful, yet you immediately disparage it...shameful. Also, while freedom of speech is protected, there are clear consequences for the average person employing it. For example, someone saying they think it is odd or weird for another to be gay. It's just an opinion, yet they will be branded a hater.
eJohn - I see your point, but then is this just about the ability to marry? Tell me more of these equal protections that gays seek, particularly the ones not related to marriage. I think the marriage question is valid. Also, can you accept that some people think being gay is strange and/or abnormal? Why is it that someone with a differing opinion is immediately disparaged and labeled a hater?
Believing some people are abnormal isn't just a "differing opinion".
Tony wrote:
People don't want to feel as if they are being forced to stay quiet or have a particular view - just as gays should be free to express themselves, others should be provided the same courtesy without fear of retribution. Opinions should be welcomed, as they are discussion and only with continued discussion can we understand each other better.
Should people of different races offer courtesy to people who tell them they are inferior and cursed by god? Should they welcome that opinion?

“A JOURNEY OF A THOUSAND MILES”

Since: Aug 08

MUST BEGIN WITH A SINGLE STEP!

#258 Jan 14, 2014
eJohn wrote:
<quoted text>
Pretty much. We're being banned from marrying the person of our choice because *someone else* believes they have the right to dictate to us who we can and cannot marry. How would you feel if someone was passing laws and constitutional amendments against *your* right to marry the person of your choice?
<quoted text>
Here's the list of them, directly from the Government Accounting Office. All 1,100+ of them:
http://www.gao.gov/new.items/d04353r.pdf
I don't follow your question about equal protections that aren't related to marriage. We're simply seeking equal protections under the law, as proscribed by the Federal Constitution. Shouldn't everyone get that?
<quoted text>
Of course. And I absolutely believe that many other people are strange and/or abnormal. Have you ever seen Honey Boo-Boo??? Octo-Mom?? The Duggars??? The difference is that I'm not trying to pass laws with the intent of disadvantaging people that I have a negative personal opinion of. They are.
<quoted text>
Because in order to have a negative opinion of someone else that you wish to codify into a law that strips them of equal protections a person pretty much has to BE a hater, don't they? Wouldn't you find it pretty hateful if I were to try and pass laws that stripped you of your equal protections just because I don't like something about you?
<quoted text>
Again, the difference is that gay people aren't trying to strip legal protections from or use the government to persecute people that harbor anti-gay feelings. That can't be said for those that harbor anti-gay feelings, can it?? They attack and lie and do everything in their power to disparage the gay community, yet we do nothing to harm them.
We simply want them to leave us alone and to have our government, that we support with our tax dollars, too, to provide us with the same legal protections that everyone else has. When was the last time you saw a gay person try to rally millions of voters to vote away the civil rights of a minority group? Never. When was the last time you saw a "christian" do it?
<quoted text>
Agreed 100%. But it's hard to have discussions with people that have no problem lying and distorting "facts" to disparage people they don't like, isn't it? When the other side ignores facts and reality and simply spews lies and hate, there's not much point in trying to have a reasonable discussion, is there?
Again, the major difference is that gay people aren't seeking to make anyone else live a lifestyle that's any different from the one they choose to live. That's simply not the case with our opposition. Their sole aim is to force gay people to live the lifestyle that *THEY* have chosen and not the one that we see as right for ourselves. In short, they can't keep their nose out of other people's business and, yeah, I find that pretty disgusting.
Nicely state:-)

“Marriage Equality”

Since: Dec 07

Lakeland, MI

#259 Jan 14, 2014
Tony wrote:
lides - You sound angry, not sure why. My statement of not being gay is not a caveat, rather it is truth - and meant solely to give the reader a meaningful reference point. You again prove my point. How is anything I wrote considered bigoted? Again, this is not about first amendment rights, I agree with you, those are not being infringed. It is just about the ability to disagree with the lifestyle.
Norcal - Thanks for your explaining, after reading further back I can see your point, but I am not out to belittle anyone, just providing an opinion. By lifestyle, I mean, two same-sex persons together in a relationship. I guess, let me ask it this way...Why is it when someone says they disagree with the lifestyle (two same-sex persons being together) they are labeled bigots? Some people may not agree with other people eating meat, but they are never labeled as haters or bigots for such opinions.
That's easy. People making such statements about others are being labeled as bigots because it's accurate. One of the definitions of what a bigot is, is someone that judges someone else and wishes ill toward them over things that have no effect whatsoever on the person making the judgment.

If you're not gay yourself, what do you care what other people, who are gay, do? Why have an opinion one way or the other about them? How does what they do effect you and your life? Why would you want someone that's gay to behave in a certain manner? What does it get you?

You see, it's unimaginable to me to think that I could or should have an opinion on you or your chosen lifestyle, yet you somehow feel that it's reasonable for you to have such opinions about me and to express them in a manner that might persuade others to agree with you. I don't get that. Why do you feel justified in thinking that your opinion of me matters? Would my opinion of you matter to you?? It certainly shouldn't.

Since: Apr 11

Panorama City, CA

#260 Jan 14, 2014
Tony wrote:
lides - You sound angry, not sure why. My statement of not being gay is not a caveat, rather it is truth - and meant solely to give the reader a meaningful reference point. You again prove my point. How is anything I wrote considered bigoted? Again, this is not about first amendment rights, I agree with you, those are not being infringed. It is just about the ability to disagree with the lifestyle.
Norcal - Thanks for your explaining, after reading further back I can see your point, but I am not out to belittle anyone, just providing an opinion. By lifestyle, I mean, two same-sex persons together in a relationship. I guess, let me ask it this way...Why is it when someone says they disagree with the lifestyle (two same-sex persons being together) they are labeled bigots?
For the same reason people who say they are against two people of different races living together are called bigots, they are.
Tony wrote:
Some people may not agree with other people eating meat, but they are never labeled as haters or bigots for such opinions.
Not a good analogy. People disagree with others eating meat because the animal is killed and has no say.

“Marriage Equality”

Since: Dec 07

Lakeland, MI

#261 Jan 14, 2014
Tony wrote:
Norcal - Perhaps lifestyle is not the right word...your definition is much broader and beyond my intent. For me, I only meant lifestyle = idea of two same-sex persons together in a relationship. I think some people find it hard to understand. I assure you that I am not out to attack anyone. I guess I just feel that name calling and labeling people for their opinions kills the discussion. I think it is better to first accept the position of others (you don't have to agree, just understand where they are coming from) and then try to see how they can be influenced with sincere discussion...rather than being mean.
I am outta here...have a great day folks!
You're advocating that people start out on the same page and accept that each other is okay. That's problem #1. Those questioning homosexuality and indicating that it's strange or abnormal are not on the same page as those of use that are gay because we *don't* question what you do, nor do we find it strange or abnormal. We don't find what WE do strange or abnormal, either.

Think about this. When was the last time, assuming you're a straight man, that someone said to you, "Man, I just do NOT get what you find so hot about pussy!! WTF is that about?? Pussy is SO disgusting--why would you want to put your dick in there, let along your face?? Have you smelled it??? GROSS!!! I just can NOT figure out why you want to be with a woman when guys are so freaking sexy!! Every thing about a guy is *HOT*, and yet you choose to be with a woman. That's just so weird. I don't get it."

When was the last time you heard that??

You see, you *don't* have to justify your lifestyle and who or what you find sexually appealing, do you? But if you had to start every discussion about equal rights by justifying why it's okay that you're sexually attracted to the opposite sex, you'd get pretty sick of it pretty quick, wouldn't you?

“Marriage Equality”

Since: Dec 07

Lakeland, MI

#262 Jan 14, 2014
Tony wrote:
lides - now you made me come back...:)
I don't think the statement is homophobic...some people truly feel like gays want to force non-gays to accept their position - that's a fact. But rather than force, through labeling people bigots, I think we should accept that's how some feel and see how we can continue the discussion to obtain a desired result. Continue the discussion...that is the only way of a better tomorrow.
Ok, now I am late...outta here for real now.
Quick question, what, exactly, do those people believe they're being forced to accept? How do they believe their life will be changed if they "accept" the fact that some people are gay? And why do they believe that they have the right to force *their* opinions onto others? Isn't it actually the GAY people that are having other people's lifestyles forced onto them?? Not the other way around??

“Marriage Equality”

Since: Dec 07

Lakeland, MI

#263 Jan 14, 2014
Cowboystorm wrote:
I think all forms of homosexuality is wrong we should not be forced to accept it if you ask me all of them should seek help
What, exactly, are you being "forced to accept"? The fact that some people are gay? How does that negatively effect you?

lides

“No Headline available”

Since: Jan 08

Defiance, Ohio

#265 Jan 14, 2014
Tony wrote:
lides - now you made me come back...:)
I don't think the statement is homophobic...some people truly feel like gays want to force non-gays to accept their position - that's a fact.
Yes, I agree. Some people are paranoid.
Affording someone equal protection of the law does not violate free speech.

Claiming to be OK with gay people, but then expressing paranoia that they are trying to force acceptance is homophobic. Allowing equal protection of the law doesn't mean others have to be accepting or inclusive. It just means that there is equal protection of the law.

Sorry, Tony, your logic doesn't really add up.

DNF

“Judge less, Love more”

Since: Apr 07

Born in Newark Ohio

#266 Jan 14, 2014
Tony wrote:
Wow, such venom...kind of just proves my point...no one can have a differing opinion.
lides - I start by explaining that I am not gay but fine with others being gay. I do this so you know from where I am coming. This is meant to be helpful, yet you immediately disparage it...shameful. Also, while freedom of speech is protected, there are clear consequences for the average person employing it. For example, someone saying they think it is odd or weird for another to be gay. It's just an opinion, yet they will be branded a hater.
eJohn - I see your point, but then is this just about the ability to marry? Tell me more of these equal protections that gays seek, particularly the ones not related to marriage. I think the marriage question is valid. Also, can you accept that some people think being gay is strange and/or abnormal? Why is it that someone with a differing opinion is immediately disparaged and labeled a hater?
People don't want to feel as if they are being forced to stay quiet or have a particular view - just as gays should be free to express themselves, others should be provided the same courtesy without fear of retribution. Opinions should be welcomed, as they are discussion and only with continued discussion can we understand each other better.
Your first sentence is strange since no one attacked you.

I'm not sure which Topix troll you really are, but if you have paid attention to the posts of eJohn, lides and myself, you'd have to be honest (assuming that's an ability you possess) that we have no problem with people voicing their opinions.

It's when you insist on passing discriminatory laws and claim they aren't discriminatory that you will feel venom.

I just got off a thread about a new Senior Housing Facility opening geared to gays and lesbians. It's amusing to watch the same people who are wailing about the States Rights of Utah being TRAMPLED by the Federal Govt. then turn around and try to quote the Federal Housing Act over a privately subsidized housing complex in Philly.

FYI Sexual orientation isn't covered under the Federal Housing Act. Yet. But I have a feeling many will complain when it is added, blissfully clueless that sexual orientation protections cover them as well.

DNF

“Judge less, Love more”

Since: Apr 07

Born in Newark Ohio

#267 Jan 14, 2014
eJohn wrote:
<quoted text>
Quick question, what, exactly, do those people believe they're being forced to accept? How do they believe their life will be changed if they "accept" the fact that some people are gay? And why do they believe that they have the right to force *their* opinions onto others? Isn't it actually the GAY people that are having other people's lifestyles forced onto them?? Not the other way around??
The Definition of being Two Faced.

When the two cheeks people see are squeezing out a smile, but the two cheeks people experience are the ones that are squeezing out crap.

Since: Apr 11

Panorama City, CA

#268 Jan 14, 2014
Truth Hurts wrote:
<quoted text>
Big d!ck Rose, do you EVER get tired of being STUPID?????
You think that if I were a man, I'd consider being told I'm well hung insulitng?
Talk about stupid.
I'm surprised you can figure out how to use a proxy service.
Nathan

Los Angeles, CA

#269 Jan 14, 2014
Rose_NoHo wrote:
<quoted text>
You think that if I were a man, I'd consider being told I'm well hung insulitng?
What is this "if" stuff? You are a man. Well not really but you do have huge pen!s.

DNF

“Judge less, Love more”

Since: Apr 07

Born in Newark Ohio

#270 Jan 14, 2014
Nathan wrote:
<quoted text>
What is this "if" stuff? You are a man. Well not really but you do have huge pen!s.
It's past 9 PM EST. Does Mommie know you aren't in bed and that you are still on your computer?

I was going to say wait till Daddy gets home but then that might be part of your problem.

DNF

“Judge less, Love more”

Since: Apr 07

Born in Newark Ohio

#271 Jan 14, 2014
Truth Hurts wrote:
<quoted text>
Big d!ck Rose, do you EVER get tired of being STUPID?????
I originally came up with this as a response for Kimare but it fits you so well.

The Definition of being Two- Faced.
When the two cheeks you show people are squeezing out a smile, while the two cheeks people experience are the ones squeezing out a load of crap.

“A JOURNEY OF A THOUSAND MILES”

Since: Aug 08

MUST BEGIN WITH A SINGLE STEP!

#272 Jan 14, 2014
Nathan wrote:
<quoted text>
What is this "if" stuff? You are a man. Well not really but you do have huge pen!s.
Are you personally an eye witness to this pen!s? or are ya just another jackazz troll who is posting their wishful fantasy?

DNF

“Judge less, Love more”

Since: Apr 07

Born in Newark Ohio

#273 Jan 14, 2014
NorCal Native wrote:
<quoted text>
Are you personally an eye witness to this pen!s? or are ya just another jackazz troll who is posting their wishful fantasy?
IMO they are just another homophobe terrified that if gay rights become Federal law, men will start treating him the same way he treats women.

“A JOURNEY OF A THOUSAND MILES”

Since: Aug 08

MUST BEGIN WITH A SINGLE STEP!

#274 Jan 14, 2014
DNF wrote:
<quoted text>IMO they are just another homophobe terrified that if gay rights become Federal law, men will start treating him the same way he treats women.
Seems to be their problem!!!

DNF

“Judge less, Love more”

Since: Apr 07

Born in Newark Ohio

#275 Jan 14, 2014
NorCal Native wrote:
<quoted text>
Seems to be their problem!!!
That and PADD ... Political Acumen Deficit Disorder (thanks snyper)

DNF

“Judge less, Love more”

Since: Apr 07

Born in Newark Ohio

#276 Jan 14, 2014
lides wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes, I agree. Some people are paranoid.
Affording someone equal protection of the law does not violate free speech.
Claiming to be OK with gay people, but then expressing paranoia that they are trying to force acceptance is homophobic. Allowing equal protection of the law doesn't mean others have to be accepting or inclusive. It just means that there is equal protection of the law.
Sorry, Tony, your logic doesn't really add up.
PADD ... Political Acumen Deficit Disorder

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