HENDERSHOTT: How Scouts incite Cathol...

HENDERSHOTT: How Scouts incite Catholic culture war

There are 56 comments on the Washington Times story from Jun 11, 2013, titled HENDERSHOTT: How Scouts incite Catholic culture war. In it, Washington Times reports that:

The decision by the Boy Scouts to include homosexual Scout members has opened a new front in the Catholic culture wars as increasing numbers of Catholic pastors are withdrawing their support for parish-based Boy Scout troops, while progressive Catholic organizations and newspapers are describing the pastors' decisions as "bigoted."

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Washington Times.

Dan

Omaha, NE

#21 Jun 12, 2013
RevKen wrote:
<quoted text>
Really!?
What is their position based upon, Dan?
Scripture, sacred tradition and the teaching of the Magisterium.

Same as all their positions.

Since: Aug 09

Location hidden

#22 Jun 12, 2013
Dan wrote:
<quoted text>
You directed me to read it.
I had read it already.
Well, then .... maybe you should try comprehending it.

Since: Aug 09

Location hidden

#23 Jun 12, 2013
Dan wrote:
<quoted text>
Scripture, sacred tradition and the teaching of the Magisterium.
Same as all their positions.
Well, let's see now ........

"Same as all their positions."

1. Scripture: Open to interpretation.

2. Sacred tradition: That which is sacred is a subjective assessment. And, yes, it does change and has changed over time. We no longer sacrifice and toast birds, lamb chops and beef patties on the altar. We do it in the back yard on Saturday evening, with friends over. Sometimes, such backyard gatherings are just as sacred as any glittering gilt-covered, tapestry adorned, incense burning echolating dance performed by any randomly chosen group of sacerdotally designated great apes.

3. The teaching of the Magisterium: a committee of scholars and representative clergy, whose members change, fairly frequently in the overall picture.

Are they and their decisions/conclusions subject to any error?
Yes. They have always been subject to making errors in judgment and in their realization of present truth.

On the whole, they seem to have tracked pretty well. But, on closer scrutiny, there are compounding failures. They have proven themselves to be basically impotent when it comes to setting the record straight. All they can do is make fairly minor adjustments to the trajectory of the Roman denomination, even when the need for major changes presents itself.

Of course, this is the view of an Episcopalian. And, there certainly is much to be commended about the Roman Church now and throughout its historical past. Many of the saints are or were from the Roman Church. But, there is also much to be learned by reviewing the misery generated through its stubborn error-prone leadership.

After all, it is what it is.

Rev. Ken
George

Jacksonville, FL

#24 Jun 13, 2013
RevKen wrote:
<quoted text>
A "Blind" pig doesn't look for them, Dummy!
But, he does find them.
Since to look for means to gather, a blind pig "looks for" acorns also, DUMMY!

Since: Aug 09

Location hidden

#25 Jun 13, 2013
George wrote:
<quoted text>
Since to look for means to gather, a blind pig "looks for" acorns also, DUMMY!
OK. OK.

So, you found another acorn!

Since: Aug 09

Location hidden

#26 Jun 13, 2013
George wrote:
<quoted text>
Since to look for means to gather, a blind pig "looks for" acorns also, DUMMY!
And, to "look for" does not mean to gather. One can "look for" acorns in the wrong places and NEVER find or gather even one!

On the other hand or hoof, A blind pig, "looking for" acorns in the right places will most likely, eventually, acquire at least one.

Even then, upon finding ONE, the pig will most likely gobble it, instead of gathering.

So there! Two more for me.
George

Jacksonville, FL

#27 Jun 14, 2013
RevKen wrote:
<quoted text>
And, to "look for" does not mean to gather..... Two more for me.
Roget's
Main Entry: expect
Part of Speech: verb
Definition: believe strongly; anticipate
Synonyms: apprehend, assume, await, bargain for, bargain on, be afraid, calculate, conjecture, contemplate, count on, divine, envisage, feel, figure, forecast, foreknow, foresee, gather, hope, hope for, imagine, in the cards, look, look ahead to, look for , look forward to, predict, presume, presuppose, reckon, see coming, sense, suppose, surmise, suspect, take, think, trust, understand, wait for, watch for
So - two more of waht for you --- acorns????

Since: Aug 09

Location hidden

#28 Jun 14, 2013
George wrote:
<quoted text>
Roget's
Main Entry: expect
Part of Speech: verb
Definition: believe strongly; anticipate
Synonyms: apprehend, assume, await, bargain for, bargain on, be afraid, calculate, conjecture, contemplate, count on, divine, envisage, feel, figure, forecast, foreknow, foresee, gather, hope, hope for, imagine, in the cards, look, look ahead to, look for , look forward to, predict, presume, presuppose, reckon, see coming, sense, suppose, surmise, suspect, take, think, trust, understand, wait for, watch for
So - two more of waht for you --- acorns????
OK. OK.

I reluctantly yield one back to you due to the above presented technicality. But, I still say pigs don't gather. Squirrels gather. And I neither admit to hoggishness or squirrelly behavior as regards these posts. But, I do admit and claim to occasionally, blindly, finding "acorns" of intellectual and spiritual value within in my own ruminations, as well as yours.

Regarding the thread topic of the Scouts and a Roman Catholic culture war,...

The Roman Catholic hierarchy apparently contains an inordinate number of male chauvinist pigs who do not yet openly gather that their stated positions on homosexuality are squirrelly and are being found wanting among their own herd. They are still showing a preference for blindly ignoring modern medical and scientifically based findings regarding the complex nature of human sexuality.

As a result of their public, deliberate and misguided rooting around within their own ranks for homosexual scapegoats upon which to blame their internal malaise, they can only be seen as refusing to address the problems of their nutty preference for living in their own pigsty of institutionalized hypocrisy and orthodox bigotry.

Any loss to the pearl of their sponsorship of Scouting, as a result, is an unfortunate and crushing consequence of indiscriminate collateral damage caused by their own fecklessness.

Rev. Ken
A slightly nutty, temporarily piggy and occasionally blind priest. May God have mercy on me and issue a reprieve to me from any imminent slaughter, for having written in truth about these matters.
Dan

Omaha, NE

#29 Jun 14, 2013
RevKen wrote:
<quoted text>
OK. OK.
I reluctantly yield one back to you due to the above presented technicality. But, I still say pigs don't gather. Squirrels gather. And I neither admit to hoggishness or squirrelly behavior as regards these posts. But, I do admit and claim to occasionally, blindly, finding "acorns" of intellectual and spiritual value within in my own ruminations, as well as yours.
Regarding the thread topic of the Scouts and a Roman Catholic culture war,...
The Roman Catholic hierarchy apparently contains an inordinate number of male chauvinist pigs who do not yet openly gather that their stated positions on homosexuality are squirrelly and are being found wanting among their own herd. They are still showing a preference for blindly ignoring modern medical and scientifically based findings regarding the complex nature of human sexuality.
As a result of their public, deliberate and misguided rooting around within their own ranks for homosexual scapegoats upon which to blame their internal malaise, they can only be seen as refusing to address the problems of their nutty preference for living in their own pigsty of institutionalized hypocrisy and orthodox bigotry.
Any loss to the pearl of their sponsorship of Scouting, as a result, is an unfortunate and crushing consequence of indiscriminate collateral damage caused by their own fecklessness.
Rev. Ken
A slightly nutty, temporarily piggy and occasionally blind priest. May God have mercy on me and issue a reprieve to me from any imminent slaughter, for having written in truth about these matters.
What Catholic Bishop has made a statement that the new BSA membership policy conflicts with Church teaching and that their Diocese will withdraw troop sponsorship? Again, I need a Bishop here.

I must have missed it, since you seemed quite comfy calling them out in your silly post.

Since: Aug 09

Location hidden

#31 Jun 14, 2013
Dan wrote:
<quoted text>
What Catholic Bishop has made a statement that the new BSA membership policy conflicts with Church teaching and that their Diocese will withdraw troop sponsorship? Again, I need a Bishop here.
I must have missed it, since you seemed quite comfy calling them out in your silly post.
Thanks for noting the silliness. But, it is no more silly than Roman Catholic policy toward homosexuals.

The silliness of the RCC is being revealed. Five will get you ten if such silliness doesn't turn downright ugly before it gets funny.

Patience, My Dear Daniel. You'll get your wish. The Baptists are leading the way and the Roman Catholics are not about to be outdone by the Baptists!
Dan

Omaha, NE

#32 Jun 14, 2013
RevKen wrote:
<quoted text>
Thanks for noting the silliness. But, it is no more silly than Roman Catholic policy toward homosexuals.
The silliness of the RCC is being revealed. Five will get you ten if such silliness doesn't turn downright ugly before it gets funny.
Patience, My Dear Daniel. You'll get your wish. The Baptists are leading the way and the Roman Catholics are not about to be outdone by the Baptists!
What "policy"?

As Catholic, I'll tell you right now that we don't concern ourselves in the slightest with what the Baptists do or say.

Since: Aug 09

Location hidden

#33 Jun 15, 2013
Dan wrote:
<quoted text>
What "policy"?
As Catholic, I'll tell you right now that we don't concern ourselves in the slightest with what the Baptists do or say.
Well,.... you [Roman Church] certainly have in the past. I don't know what you [Dan] think may have changed yesterday.

Baptists are at least 46 million strong, in their various shades of the general "Born-again" hue. They are a powerful, influential force in Protestant theological belief. Their faith claims about five sources, including the Anglican Church which has always held ties to the Roman Church.

There are few, if any, who are any more fervent than the Baptists in their passion for discipleship to Christ.

If I were Jesus, standing at the Door of the "Gates of Heaven" and taking those by the hand who come asking to be brought in, I would be yanking them in left and right and only mildly chastizing the most zealous among them for thinking they themselves have understanding enough to keep anybody else out.

Rev. Ken
Listen to the Word

Kingman, AZ

#34 Jun 15, 2013
If the Catholic church is at all directed by the Word of God, they will confess the homosexuality is a sin and reject another religious organization (Boy Scouts of America, BSA) which accepts homosexuality as non-sinful. BTW, Lord Baden-Powell. the founder of the scouting movement, said that the Boy Scouts of America is a religion and BSA won a court case to keep homosexuals out of the BSA in California by claiming it is a religion. If any Christian read Baden-Powell's writings on the nature of scouting, they would avoid it. However, most Christian church leaders (and now most lay people) are ignorant of the intent of such organizations as well as of the Bible. No wonder the church is in decline. Christianity is the only major world religion where the followers are getting less and less informed and knowledgeable of their own religions and its basic scriptures.

Since: Aug 09

Location hidden

#35 Jun 15, 2013
Listen to the Word wrote:
If the Catholic church is at all directed by the Word of God, they will confess the homosexuality is a sin and reject another religious organization (Boy Scouts of America, BSA) which accepts homosexuality as non-sinful. BTW, Lord Baden-Powell. the founder of the scouting movement, said that the Boy Scouts of America is a religion and BSA won a court case to keep homosexuals out of the BSA in California by claiming it is a religion. If any Christian read Baden-Powell's writings on the nature of scouting, they would avoid it. However, most Christian church leaders (and now most lay people) are ignorant of the intent of such organizations as well as of the Bible. No wonder the church is in decline. Christianity is the only major world religion where the followers are getting less and less informed and knowledgeable of their own religions and its basic scriptures.
Dear One who does not listen,

If you want to have ANY credibility at all, provide a link or two showing the words of Baden-Powell that you believe discredit the BSA.

Since: Mar 07

Location hidden

#36 Jun 16, 2013
Dan wrote:
<quoted text>
The RCC position on homosexuality IS clear, Ken.
You just want them to change it as to affirm it.
Hmm.

Their position is that it is un-chosen, but still morally wrong, even though it's natural, and that gay people, while they should be allowed to live, should never be allowed the same things in life that a straight person values.

They can't explain how this harmless natural trait is harmful, or who it might harm and they don't even try. Since ALL sin harms someone, this is an odd stance.

That's "clear"?

That's nuts.

And no one has to affirm ANY natural trait. One only has to stop lying about and persecuting those that share it. Caring about and welcoming them would be an even more Godly response.

Pretty simple stuff.

Since: Mar 07

Location hidden

#37 Jun 16, 2013
Listen to the Word wrote:
If the Catholic church is at all directed by the Word of God, they will confess the homosexuality is a sin and reject another religious organization .......
All sin harms - that's a basic concept.

How does a natural trait like homosexuality harm ANYONE? WHO is being harmed if God created some folks who can only be attracted to the same gender?

Seems like a pretty strange sin, doesn't it?

If you look at it rationally, the primary harm seems to be coming from people who claim to be religious, who are harming gay people, in this case gay children.
Dan

Omaha, NE

#38 Jun 17, 2013
Quest wrote:
<quoted text>
Hmm.
Their position is that it is un-chosen, but still morally wrong, even though it's natural, and that gay people, while they should be allowed to live, should never be allowed the same things in life that a straight person values.
They can't explain how this harmless natural trait is harmful, or who it might harm and they don't even try. Since ALL sin harms someone, this is an odd stance.
That's "clear"?
That's nuts.
And no one has to affirm ANY natural trait. One only has to stop lying about and persecuting those that share it. Caring about and welcoming them would be an even more Godly response.
Pretty simple stuff.
Something being "natural" doesn't render it "good", inherently.

People harming others or themselves is part of human nature, and that's not inherently good or value-neutral.
Dan

Omaha, NE

#39 Jun 17, 2013
RevKen wrote:
<quoted text>
Well,.... you [Roman Church] certainly have in the past. I don't know what you [Dan] think may have changed yesterday.
Baptists are at least 46 million strong, in their various shades of the general "Born-again" hue. They are a powerful, influential force in Protestant theological belief. Their faith claims about five sources, including the Anglican Church which has always held ties to the Roman Church.
There are few, if any, who are any more fervent than the Baptists in their passion for discipleship to Christ.
If I were Jesus, standing at the Door of the "Gates of Heaven" and taking those by the hand who come asking to be brought in, I would be yanking them in left and right and only mildly chastizing the most zealous among them for thinking they themselves have understanding enough to keep anybody else out.
Rev. Ken
Thanks.

I'm passing familiar with the Baptist church.

The Catholic Church isn't concerned with what they do; they don't look to see what the Baptists do before deciding what actions to take.

Since: Aug 09

Location hidden

#40 Jun 17, 2013
Dan wrote:
<quoted text>
Something being "natural" doesn't render it "good", inherently.
People harming others or themselves is part of human nature, and that's not inherently good or value-neutral.
You know,....?

Quest, in post #37 above, asked three simple questions of you.

You didn't answer any one of them.

Instead, you tried to equate his presentation of a personal simplicity of Being and a natural integrity with every imagination of bad behavior known to mankind.

Yes, such may be related, just as being a human can be related to destructive acts done by some humans to other humans, et cetera.

But, that does NOT answer the questions that he asked.

What you did was answer:

(Quest) If A + B = C, show why C is not the product of A + B.

(Dan answered) Because C is the same thing as D and D is often bad because it is not actually A + B.

Go back to his questions about A + B and show a reasoned answer, if you think you can. Let your answer come from a congruency of your own mind and heart.

And be aware: you have a trained set of beliefs that may not be a congruent source of parameters from which to draw an answer. But, you also have a fully capable mind and heart that YOU have RESERVED and kept apart from ALL of this training, knowing full well the exact point that you made in your answer above.

That is, that the human condition of "D" is often present.

Rev. Ken

Since: Aug 09

Location hidden

#41 Jun 17, 2013
Dan wrote:
<quoted text>
Thanks.
I'm passing familiar with the Baptist church.
The Catholic Church isn't concerned with what they do; they don't look to see what the Baptists do before deciding what actions to take.
How do you know that?

I'm going to tell you that they do.

And, I'll tell you why. I'll give you a very simple example.

If a fly lands upon the Titanic, does it actually move the Titanic? You'd better believe that it does. Because, it does.

Likewise, did John, the Baptist, contribute to the Ministry of Jesus? Did John's disciples?

Rev. Ken

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