Is my wife a lesbian?
confused and bitter

Aberdeen Proving Ground, MD

#23 Dec 17, 2008
Fair question:

Had she cheated with a man, I pretty much would have viewed it as my fault, hung my head in regret and sorrow and moved on.

I suppose I am in a state of denial myself and I just hope to awake from this bad dream and it will all go away. It's like on ER - I've been doing heroic CPR on my marriage for so long - but no one, including me, wants to "call it."
nina wrote:
<quoted text>
nope, absolutely not.
there is no level of being a shit-heel that any guy can be that would make a straight woman a lesbian
if there was, there would be more lesbians than straight women
same for dominante mothers can't turn their sons gay
no person can make you something that you are not
if you suspected your wife cheating on you with another man - would you also hang in there, hoping things would change?
if not, why do you feel compelled to act differently just because the other person is a woman?
nina

Ottawa, Canada

#24 Dec 17, 2008
confused and bitter wrote:
Fair question:
Had she cheated with a man, I pretty much would have viewed it as my fault, hung my head in regret and sorrow and moved on....<quoted text>
I can understand that

for me, I would be more hurt if my wife cheated on me with a man

because I would feel that it negated our whole life together if she wanted to be with a man

but if she cheated with another woman, then for me, I'd be like, well, I wasn't the right woman for her

kinda the opposite of you in a way - but the reality is, bith come down to the spouse leaving the relationship - emotionally at least

for another person
end the hate

Brooklyn, NY

#25 Dec 17, 2008
confused and bitter wrote:
<quoted text>
Jaded? Please explain. I practically worshiped her and got very little in return. Of course, now she says that all my loving acts for nearly 30 years (little things every day like cards, flowers, fueling her car, running to the store for tampons, taking her coffee, making her lunch, fetching a heating pad for her awful monthly cramps etc etc) did NOTHING because it does not show her that I KNOW her. Well HELL! What is that about?? And the only reason I don't want war is because she did give me kids. I could NEVER hate her nor want the same from the kids. I really tried and I guess it never mattered how good of a man or husband I was because she detests men.
How do you know she detests you? Did she say this to you? Why is she still living with you then if she hates you so much and loves her gf?
When i said "jaded" i didnt mean it towards you, its just that some women get jaded after a certain period of time, they look for some kind of excitements, and theres truly no better excitement then with a female since its so forbidden and new to some women. Yea it seems like you were a great husband as well as a father but like i just said, women need excitement, not all of them but there are some women who need that, and this excitement can be anything--for your wife it just happened to be a woman.
end the hate

Brooklyn, NY

#26 Dec 17, 2008
confused and bitter wrote:
Fair question:
Had she cheated with a man, I pretty much would have viewed it as my fault, hung my head in regret and sorrow and moved on.
I suppose I am in a state of denial myself and I just hope to awake from this bad dream and it will all go away. It's like on ER - I've been doing heroic CPR on my marriage for so long - but no one, including me, wants to "call it."
<quoted text>
No!! how can her cheating on you be your fault?? Dont ever feel sorrow. If you know youve done nothig wrong and your spouse cheats on you with another man, ITS NOT YOUR FAULT. These are the signs of a weak person, and nobody likes a weak person--honestly. We dont do it on purpose, we as humans dont respond well to someone weaker than us. We treat them bad because we know we can. You need to let your wife know that youre not the floor on penn station and that you dont deserve to be walked all over. Being an ahole is the only way out.
confused and bitter

Aberdeen Proving Ground, MD

#27 Dec 17, 2008
end the hate wrote:
<quoted text>
How do you know she detests you? Did she say this to you? Why is she still living with you then if she hates you so much and loves her gf?
When i said "jaded" i didnt mean it towards you, its just that some women get jaded after a certain period of time, they look for some kind of excitements, and theres truly no better excitement then with a female since its so forbidden and new to some women. Yea it seems like you were a great husband as well as a father but like i just said, women need excitement, not all of them but there are some women who need that, and this excitement can be anything--for your wife it just happened to be a woman.
\

I have lots of exciting interests - they just don't match up with hers... like being at 8,000 feet, in 10 degrees about to cut into a foot of fresh powder. Or, snorkeling off the coast of Cozumel and dancing the marimba later. But lately, she said it's not about not finding something exciting in common to do - it's doing ANYTHING with someone she wants to be with. But if you never try anything new, how do you re-new excitement and togetherness? It's a Catch-22.

Daniel P from Long Island

“Protestant, Gay, Libertarian”

Since: Apr 08

Long Island, NY

#28 Dec 17, 2008
From your description, it sure sounds like she has given her heart to someone else.

When she married you, she promised to forsake all others.

I'm gay, and from my experience, I would say that she is gay and that she will choose her girlfriend over you.

You're not at fault.

From you description she seems to want the financial and social acceptance and benefits of being married to you, but the emotional and sexual relationship with someone else.

I would say give her an ultimatum. It's either you or her girlfriend.

That is situation is far more common than people think. Both actors Burt Reynolds and Lou Diamond Phillips married lesbians.

Good luck !
confused and bitter

Aberdeen Proving Ground, MD

#29 Dec 17, 2008
end the hate wrote:
<quoted text>
No!! how can her cheating on you be your fault?? Dont ever feel sorrow. If you know youve done nothig wrong and your spouse cheats on you with another man, ITS NOT YOUR FAULT. These are the signs of a weak person, and nobody likes a weak person--honestly. We dont do it on purpose, we as humans dont respond well to someone weaker than us. We treat them bad because we know we can. You need to let your wife know that youre not the floor on penn station and that you dont deserve to be walked all over. Being an ahole is the only way out.
That's just it - I didn't know I was doing anything wrong. And it's not what I DID, rather what I didn't do - that is - immerse myself totally into her world and really know her even though she doesn't give a flying fig about mine. Apparently, acts of love work for a majority of women - not her. She's like a Rubic's cube - and because I haven't broken the code, she thinks I don't really care. But man! What a tough code! I can even see how one-sided her current relationship is with her GF - it's all about what SHE can get out of it and her GF is looking for someone to give her all to. THAT'S why it's working so well and I'm in the cold. But I bet her GF grows tired of it - I see little hints of that already. They are actually beginning to fight on occasion.

And as for your weakness point, well I guess I appear that way but it's only because I was doing what I thought would make her happy and felt bad when she wasn't. I'm a very reticent yet highly devoted, sacrificial person. I'm not happy till those I care for are happy.

And get this: For years, when we got together with friends, she would tell them what a wonderful husband I was and it was almost embarrassing. So I thought all along I was doing the right thing. See why I label myself "Confused"
feetwister

Nashville, TN

#30 Dec 17, 2008
confused wrote:
I'm not here to judge. I support gay rights, okay? But my marriage has been on life support for 10 years and it's time to pull the plug after 30 years. We have not had sex in ages. My wife has developed this relationship over the past several years with "Jill." They spend 30 to 60 hours a month on the phone, call each other 10 times a day and spend about 40 hours a week together. They write love letters to each other with words like "remember the day we fell in love? "In love" was double underlined. Discovering you, discovering me, then discovering us. You are my whole life and you have my whole heart." Among text messages I saw to/from her girlfriend:
"I love holding you, kissing you"
"I want to take time tonight to touch you"
"Can't sleep without you"
"Tomorrow is a big day for us - our first event as a couple"
"You'll always be my girl"
Still my wife is in full denial that it's nothing more than a deep friendship - that she's just bored with me and also has a long list of my faults which "made her lesbian" as she blurted out one night - today she said she never said that. My wife dresses like her girlfriend now and even though my wife is very sexy, slim and attractive, she always used to dress boring and wore "granny panties" and boring bras and lingerie. Suddenly, she wears leopard print skimpy panties (I know - I do the laundry), shaves 'down there' and wears push-up bras - as if she needed them. We sleep in separate rooms and she always closes the door when she changes clothes and sleeps. She turns on this soft sexy voice on the phone with her when she thinks I can't hear her. She says this is how it will be until I accept that it's only a friendship and I re-join them (her, her girlfriend and husband). The three of them think I'm crazy.
So tell me - am I being played like a flute or what? She wants it both ways - the security of our home and finances AND her lover. My youngest son found the first text message above and went nuts for a month before he finally told my older son who told me.
If you haven't been intimate with your wife in ages, why are you waiting so long to have a talk with her? Are you waiting so that you can throw in the towel, claim she's a lesbian and blame her for your marriage failing?
Grow up, talk to each other like adults, iron it out or find an alternative solution. You aren't going to solve this issue on public message boards.
confused and bitter

Aberdeen Proving Ground, MD

#31 Dec 17, 2008
Daniel P from Long Island wrote:
From your description, it sure sounds like she has given her heart to someone else.
When she married you, she promised to forsake all others.
I'm gay, and from my experience, I would say that she is gay and that she will choose her girlfriend over you.
You're not at fault.
From you description she seems to want the financial and social acceptance and benefits of being married to you, but the emotional and sexual relationship with someone else.
I would say give her an ultimatum. It's either you or her girlfriend.
That is situation is far more common than people think. Both actors Burt Reynolds and Lou Diamond Phillips married lesbians.
Good luck !
I already gave the ultimatum last month... she hasn't answered yet.
feetwister

Nashville, TN

#32 Dec 17, 2008
confused and bitter wrote:
<quoted text>
I already gave the ultimatum last month... she hasn't answered yet.
Then you make a decision.
channeling dan savage

Las Vegas, NV

#33 Dec 17, 2008
DTMFA.

Daniel P from Long Island

“Protestant, Gay, Libertarian”

Since: Apr 08

Long Island, NY

#34 Dec 17, 2008
confused and bitter wrote:
<quoted text>
I already gave the ultimatum last month... she hasn't answered yet.
Ok, let me be more blunt then.

If she has given her heart to someone else, you would be foolish to remain with her any longer than necessary.

And without gong into the details, from my personal experience, something like this is emotionally devastating, and can take a LONG time (if ever) to get over.

But I think the sooner you get yourself away from here, the better off you will be. I wish I had realized this sooner in my case.
channeling dan savage

Las Vegas, NV

#35 Dec 17, 2008
In other words, it doesn't matter whether or not your wife is bisexual, a lesbian, or straight.

If the relationship between the two of you is irretrievably broken, you must for your sake move on with your life.

She has broken your trust. She has been and is taking advantage of you.

DTMFA.

Daniel P from Long Island

“Protestant, Gay, Libertarian”

Since: Apr 08

Long Island, NY

#36 Dec 17, 2008
channeling dan savage wrote:
In other words, it doesn't matter whether or not your wife is bisexual, a lesbian, or straight.
If the relationship between the two of you is irretrievably broken, you must for your sake move on with your life.
She has broken your trust. She has been and is taking advantage of you.
DTMFA.
I agree.
end the hate

Brooklyn, NY

#37 Dec 18, 2008
confused and bitter wrote:
<quoted text>
That's just it - I didn't know I was doing anything wrong. And it's not what I DID, rather what I didn't do - that is - immerse myself totally into her world and really know her even though she doesn't give a flying fig about mine. Apparently, acts of love work for a majority of women - not her. She's like a Rubic's cube - and because I haven't broken the code, she thinks I don't really care. But man! What a tough code! I can even see how one-sided her current relationship is with her GF - it's all about what SHE can get out of it and her GF is looking for someone to give her all to. THAT'S why it's working so well and I'm in the cold. But I bet her GF grows tired of it - I see little hints of that already. They are actually beginning to fight on occasion.
And as for your weakness point, well I guess I appear that way but it's only because I was doing what I thought would make her happy and felt bad when she wasn't. I'm a very reticent yet highly devoted, sacrificial person. I'm not happy till those I care for are happy.
And get this: For years, when we got together with friends, she would tell them what a wonderful husband I was and it was almost embarrassing. So I thought all along I was doing the right thing. See why I label myself "Confused"
Yeah i totally get what you're saying and i agree with you, but i don't think it has anything to do with you, i think the conflict is within HERSELF. She must fix herself before fixing her marriage, IF she wants to that is. Right now its safe to say you are stuck in a rut, and i am sure we all have experienced what that feels like at some point. It gets better, my friend. Dont know when or for how long but it gets better

“Marriage=Love+Co mmitment.....”

Since: Oct 07

Location hidden

#38 Dec 18, 2008
Since I don’t know your wife, I can only guess here. But my guesses are based on the story of many women who come out late in life.

At some point after puberty, she probably realized that her feelings toward her girl friends were different from theirs. Maybe she had the word gay for this feeling, maybe not; it depends on where and how she grew up. She didn’t want to be having those feelings because they frightened her and might lead her down a path that she knew was socially unacceptable. Either consciously or unconsciously, she probably thought she could choose to not have them and they would go away. She learned to bury them and act straight. Denial is a very powerful emotion!

She found you and you married. Those nurturing and domestic parts of your personality were probably very attractive to her. But over the many years of marriage to you, those feelings toward women didn’t go away and she was always fighting against them. It’s not an easy thing to deny your emotions for many years, believe me!

None of that was your fault. You didn’t make her gay, you couldn’t. In fact, it says something about you that she was willing to bury part of her needs because she loved you and wanted to be with you. However, being with a woman is very different from being with a man and she needed something you simply could not give her.

At some point she could not deny them anymore. Maybe because your marriage had gotten comfortable and you both took it for granted. Maybe the catalyst was this women coming into her life. Maybe it was something else, but it happened.

From what you have said, she doesn’t want to give up the life that she has built with you and the family. After all, she has worked hard at it all these years too, even though you don’t want to see that right now because of your bitterness.

She is satisfied with the way things are. You are not. So you have to be the one to leave. Thinking she is the one who should leave because she broke your marriage is tempting, but it is really just about power and control, can you see that? And as far as wanting the house goes; you have said that you want it to fix up and sell, so obviously you do not want it out of emotional attachment. You are looking at it as a means to profit or maybe it’s just that you want her to NOT have it. Again, power and control. Let the lawyers decide who gets the house. Go see a lawyer about the divorce and move on with your life.

Since: Mar 07

Location hidden

#39 Dec 19, 2008
confused wrote:
<quoted text>
I can't live this life, that's for sure. You're right, I was hoping she'd change - it's not happening. But she cheated, not me, so I want her to leave. She refuses and, by the way and still fully denies that she's bi or lesbian. I would gladly split the assets with her 50/50 but I want to buy her half of the house. Then I can spend the year fixing it up to sell while I live there, then downsize and start over. But the scary part is from here on, all holidays, birthdays of kids and grandchildren will be difficult. She will seek revenge for my "making her a lesbian" - yes, she blurted that out one night and has now retracted it. Do you really think I could be such a monster as to have made her change her sexual orientation? She should have told me up-front, separated, then entered her relationship afterward. I don't know how the other husband is dealing with this. He's in denial, too, I suppose. I'm pretty sure he's banging another soccer mom, though. What a mess.
You didn't "make her a lesbian", and a person can NEVER change another's orientation.

Your wife sounds like she is in denial, and that isn't your fault, either.

Understand, she will NOT change. Even if she steps away from this relationship and back to you, what is in her soul and mind will not change. She will remain Bisexual, or a lesbian, and it will re-surface again and again, because it's who she is, and her will to squash it down is weakening.

She will struggle with it, and pull you deeper into the struggle, and the odds are that if she fights her way through the confusion, she will not come out standing by YOU.

It's not your fault, and it's not really hers, either. The closet is a confusing place to be, and getting out of it is even more chaotic. But don't look to her for logic and clarity right now. It sounds that such things must come from you.

I know this sounds trite, but all things happen for a reason. She is searching for something, and may even find it. You need to be searching, too. For joy, and things in life that make you happy.

If you can't find happiness and joy in your circumstance right now, perhaps it is somewhere out in the world, waiting for you.
confused and bitter

Aberdeen Proving Ground, MD

#40 Dec 19, 2008
Quest wrote:
<quoted text>
You didn't "make her a lesbian", and a person can NEVER change another's orientation.
Your wife sounds like she is in denial, and that isn't your fault, either.
Understand, she will NOT change. Even if she steps away from this relationship and back to you, what is in her soul and mind will not change. She will remain Bisexual, or a lesbian, and it will re-surface again and again, because it's who she is, and her will to squash it down is weakening.
She will struggle with it, and pull you deeper into the struggle, and the odds are that if she fights her way through the confusion, she will not come out standing by YOU.
It's not your fault, and it's not really hers, either. The closet is a confusing place to be, and getting out of it is even more chaotic. But don't look to her for logic and clarity right now. It sounds that such things must come from you.
I know this sounds trite, but all things happen for a reason. She is searching for something, and may even find it. You need to be searching, too. For joy, and things in life that make you happy.
If you can't find happiness and joy in your circumstance right now, perhaps it is somewhere out in the world, waiting for you.
All good points. She says she was a tom-boy till about age 14. Does that mean anything? Ellen seems tom-boyish. But when we met, she was as feminine as they come - a real looker. I had no idea way back then what could have been in her soul. She claims a brief lesbian sexual affair 28 years ago - admitted to me last year. I guess it was, as you say, burning the whole time waiting for a catalyst in a marriage on auto pilot. Sure seems to add up. But a mere 12 hours ago we were arguing about her sexuality and her relationship with her GF she remains stalwart in full denial. FULL DENIAL.

And I SAY I would fix up the house to sell. But I admit, it is my home and I spend so much time there alone. She's away so much. And I have done all the improvements and upkeep myself. But if I could get the house and someone new came along, I doubt they'd want to live there and THAT'S when I'd sell and find a new place. As much as I get hit on, it may not be all that long. But I quit the bar scene - it's not me. But I was hit on a lot, trying to deflect them to my buddy who is single. When we go out, I try to get him matched up. It's not working, so I quit.
nina

Ottawa, Canada

#41 Dec 19, 2008
confused and bitter wrote:
<quoted text>
...For years, when we got together with friends, she would tell them what a wonderful husband I was and it was almost embarrassing. So I thought all along I was doing the right thing. See why I label myself "Confused"
you could still be that perfect husband

but it doesn't matter when what she really wants is a wife

so, your options are either:

end the relationship, divorce and divide the property and share the kids.

or change the argeement in the relationship so you maintain the house for the kids, but you two are in fact roommates - married for property and stability for the kids - and pursuing romance separately and with other people.

ultimatums need to have deadlines

it's me or the girlfriend - and a non-response by Friday midnight means you've picked the girlfriend

because you need her to activly choose you and commit again

by realistically, she's a lesbian and clearly needs a push

I can't imagine the girlfriend is happy with the situation

perhaps you should talk to her and you both dump the wife.

Daniel P from Long Island

“Protestant, Gay, Libertarian”

Since: Apr 08

Long Island, NY

#42 Dec 19, 2008
It's more common thatn you thnk for lesbians (and gay men) to marry people of the opposite sex. This obviously can bring grief.

Among some famous lesbinas that married men:
Julie Cypher married Lou Diamond Phillips (they divorced).

Judy Carne married Burt Reynolds (they divorced).

Susan Powter (The Stop The Insanity Lose Weight Infomercial lady) married a man, then divorced.

And closer to home, my next door neighbor's son, when he was 23 years old, unknowingly married a lesbian (they too divorced).

So it happens more than one may think.

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