God and Gays: The Rite to Bless Same-sex Unions

Jul 16, 2012 Full story: Time 1,053

There is something by now familiar, even reassuring, about what happens in my church every third summer.

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“Good day to you!”

Since: Oct 08

Earth

#180 Oct 4, 2012
DNF wrote:
<quoted text>I'm glad you finally admitted that forcing your ideas onto people who aren't part of God's chosen violates the principles you claim to stand for.
I admitted nothing of the kind. People have forced their social and moral ways of thinking on others be they religious or nonreligious groups warring with other religious or nonreligious groups. Just the way humans have been for who knows how long.

DNF

“Religious Freedom to Marry”

Since: Apr 07

Newark OH / Baltimore MD

#181 Oct 4, 2012
snyper wrote:
<quoted text>
Don't you mean signed by five people?
I love it when you point out how clueless some people are when it comes to marriage.
My "husband" and I were in my brother's wedding party. It was the two of us that he and his wife asked to be witnesses on their license.
It's sort of funny because it never occurred to either of us that as soon as the ceremony was over the 4 of us and the minster all needed to sign the marriage license for it to be a valid marriage.

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#182 Oct 4, 2012
DNF wrote:
<quoted text>I love it when you point out how clueless some people are when it comes to marriage.
My "husband" and I were in my brother's wedding party. It was the two of us that he and his wife asked to be witnesses on their license.
It's sort of funny because it never occurred to either of us that as soon as the ceremony was over the 4 of us and the minster all needed to sign the marriage license for it to be a valid marriage.
\

I've been that 5th and final signature many times.

DNF

“Religious Freedom to Marry”

Since: Apr 07

Newark OH / Baltimore MD

#183 Oct 4, 2012
snyper wrote:
<quoted text>\
I've been that 5th and final signature many times.
I know. Hope you're travels are going well.

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#184 Oct 4, 2012
DNF wrote:
<quoted text>I know. Hope you're travels are going well.
Back in Cali for the past few weeks, and until the end of the year.

ATM, I'm laid-up with the chest cold that was supposed to be a head cold but never stays that way with me.

Decongestant cough medicine makes me loopy, but coughing too much wears me out. Either way I end up sleeping too much.

Glad you guys are on it.
Robsan5

Concord, CA

#185 Oct 4, 2012
No Surprise wrote:
<quoted text>
The word homosexual replaced the previous word(s)describing two people of the same sex being sexually engaged to my understanding.
I find it irrelevant to chase the word homosexual in the Bible. That's like trying to prove it's inaccurate to use the terminology "google it" for the word "search."
The ancient writings did speak of "same sex actions" and it not being seen as a "good" or "sound" practice. Paul spoke of it and so did Moses and many pro-same sex persons/scripture scholars admit it was spoken against by these two.
Being a person attracted to the same sex is no more a sin, than it is to be attracted to the opposite sex and wanting more than one wife. It's the act that was condemned directly and indirectly.
No Clue, you thinking it is irrelevant to find the truth in the bible shows your bias.
So first you said that the bible doesn't condemn homosexuality, but here you are saying that the bible condemns homosexuality. Good luck with your willful ignorance. I'm sure god just loves an idiot

Robert

“Good day to you!”

Since: Oct 08

Earth

#186 Oct 4, 2012
Robsan5 wrote:
<quoted text>
No Clue, you thinking it is irrelevant to find the truth in the bible shows your bias.
So first you said that the bible doesn't condemn homosexuality, but here you are saying that the bible condemns homosexuality. Good luck with your willful ignorance. I'm sure god just loves an idiot
Robert
What is wrong with you? Do you suffer from some educational dysfunction that doesn't allow you to understand what was wrote?
I said the Bible doesn't support/validate homosexuality, specifically the act of homosexuality. Understand? Reply to what I have said, not to your translation you keep making an error of.
I also said that there are verses that condemn the "act" of homosexuality, meaning sexual relations. Gay sites on the web that dispute Bible verses will generally agree that in Leviticus, it speaks of a homosexual act as a prostitute in a temple being forbidden. Paul spoke of sexual acts between same sex persons being forbidden as adultery between opposite sex persons being forbidden.
So lets go over this. The Bible does condemn homosexual sexual acts. The Bible doesn't support/validate sexual actions of homosexuality. But the Bible doesn't speak against a person who is a homosexual and hasn't acted on their attraction. Understand?
Go back and read the post I pasted with an address.
Robsan5

Concord, CA

#187 Oct 4, 2012
No Surprise wrote:
<quoted text>
What is wrong with you? Do you suffer from some educational dysfunction that doesn't allow you to understand what was wrote?
I said the Bible doesn't support/validate homosexuality, specifically the act of homosexuality. Understand? Reply to what I have said, not to your translation you keep making an error of.
I also said that there are verses that condemn the "act" of homosexuality, meaning sexual relations. Gay sites on the web that dispute Bible verses will generally agree that in Leviticus, it speaks of a homosexual act as a prostitute in a temple being forbidden. Paul spoke of sexual acts between same sex persons being forbidden as adultery between opposite sex persons being forbidden.
So lets go over this. The Bible does condemn homosexual sexual acts. The Bible doesn't support/validate sexual actions of homosexuality. But the Bible doesn't speak against a person who is a homosexual and hasn't acted on their attraction. Understand?
Go back and read the post I pasted with an address.
You better hope god loves a fool.
God says NOTHING about same-sex marriage. You can read anything you want into this fact, but you can not change this fact.
What word did the word 'homosexual' replace in the bible after 1940?

Robert
Join Free

“The Kingdom of God Begins NOW!”

Since: May 07

The Mountain Empire

#188 Oct 5, 2012
snyper wrote:
<quoted text>
Back in Cali for the past few weeks, and until the end of the year.
ATM, I'm laid-up with the chest cold that was supposed to be a head cold but never stays that way with me.
Decongestant cough medicine makes me loopy, but coughing too much wears me out. Either way I end up sleeping too much.
Glad you guys are on it.
Take care of yourself.....

“The Kingdom of God Begins NOW!”

Since: May 07

The Mountain Empire

#189 Oct 5, 2012
Robsan5 wrote:
<quoted text>
You better hope god loves a fool.
God says NOTHING about same-sex marriage. You can read anything you want into this fact, but you can not change this fact.
What word did the word 'homosexual' replace in the bible after 1940?
Robert
Arguing with a Moreman is like arguing with a JW.

Both are brainwashed beyond belief.

Both think they are chosen and special, although only Moremans are arrogant enough to think they will be a god.....

Both are wrong

“The Kingdom of God Begins NOW!”

Since: May 07

The Mountain Empire

#190 Oct 5, 2012
No Surprise wrote:
<quoted text>
Anytime you translate one language into another, it has to be about translation, not a literal translation. Claiming something to be a "literal translation" is a nice way of saying "We got it closer than the last guy in our translation process".
I took the following opinion/interpretation from a Jewish site on this topic for you.
http://www.myjewishlearning.com/life/Sex_and_...
An important point to make from the outset is that Jewish law does not teach that it is forbidden to be a homosexual. On the contrary, Jewish law is concerned not with the source of a personís erotic urges nor with inner feelings, but with acts. The Torah forbids the homosexual act, known as mishkav zakhar, but has nothing to say about homosexuality as a state of being or a personal inclination.
In other words, traditionally, a person with a homosexual inclination can be an entirely observant Jew as long as he or she does not act out that inclination.
LOL!

As a Jew I smell bs..........

“ reality, what a concept”

Since: Nov 07

this one

#191 Oct 5, 2012
No Surprise wrote:
Anytime you translate one language into another, it has to be about translation, not a literal translation. Claiming something to be a "literal translation" is a nice way of saying "We got it closer than the last guy in our translation process".
I'm referring more to the verses where the words "homosexuality/homosexual s" have in recent times been "translated" into the New Testament in Paul's lists of those he says will not be inheriting the kingdom of heaven. In the oldest known copies of his epistles, those who did the copying say he used a word for which the literal translation makes little sense both then and now and any "translation" of it, literal or otherwise is just a guess. It's not a word that neither the writer nor reader would have recognized as a mention of same sex sex acts or those who engage in them and what little is known about how it was taught by Christians was as a warning to those caught playing with themselves. It became a warning to the homosexual because good Christians wanted it to be a warning to homosexuals, no other reason.

“Good day to you!”

Since: Oct 08

Earth

#192 Oct 5, 2012
Robsan5 wrote:
<quoted text>
You better hope god loves a fool.
God says NOTHING about same-sex marriage. You can read anything you want into this fact, but you can not change this fact.
What word did the word 'homosexual' replace in the bible after 1940?
Robert
It's not a matter of reading into something that isn't there. It's a matter of using logic while assembling many "non-said" things along with comparative "said" things. Follow?
Example: in the OT when Moses was going through the "do-nots" of incest, sex between a father and daughter isn't mentioned. So some say sex between a father and daughter is okay because God didn't make a law against it.
But if you talk to a rabbi worth his studies, you will find that many Jews believe for whatever reason, a law against sex between a father and daughter was stated but somehow came to be excluded in all the recopying of the laws of Moses. That is their educated opinion of missing scripture/law.
On the other hand as a comparative example, if there had been many laws given for the governing of same sex relationships but a law specifying same sex marriage was missing, one could surmise at one point, a law approving same sex marriage did exist with all the other existing laws of same sex relations. Understand?
But all we have are laws and rules and guidelines for opposite sex unions/marriages. Nothing was included for same sex relationships/marriages at any point that we are aware of. And if you wish to contend that all that information did exist but was removed at some point, you only prove that the Bible is truly a man man made book of his own opinions and thoughts and is not of God at all. You'll prove God had no control of what went into the Bible. Therefore you'll prove the Bible to be very untrustworthy.
And if you believe that, you'll have to prove a conspiracy theory that combines Jews and Christians, doctoring Jewish writings and Christian writings to erase any mention of same sex actions/laws/rules/guidelines as far back as 1800 years ago.

Now a question. What is with you and this Bible word homosexual? What will my response prove from you? That the word homosexual is a English word? Not a Greek or Hebrew or Aramaic word?
The english word homosexual in 2012 defines a person attracted to the same sex. Do you wish to substantiate that we are the first society on earth to invent a word for a person that's attracted to the same sex? Please tell me you have something truly interesting to tell me?

“Good day to you!”

Since: Oct 08

Earth

#193 Oct 5, 2012
MiddleWay wrote:
<quoted text>
LOL!
As a Jew I smell bs..........
In that statement what was the BS you smelled as a Jew? That there is no such thing as a literal translation? Literal and translation used together is a contradiction in itself. Prove me wrong if you wish :)
Robsan5

United States

#194 Oct 5, 2012
No Surprise wrote:
<quoted text>
It's not a matter of reading into something that isn't there. It's a matter of using logic while assembling many "non-said" things along with comparative "said" things. Follow?
Example: in the OT when Moses was going through the "do-nots" of incest, sex between a father and daughter isn't mentioned. So some say sex between a father and daughter is okay because God didn't make a law against it.
But if you talk to a rabbi worth his studies, you will find that many Jews believe for whatever reason, a law against sex between a father and daughter was stated but somehow came to be excluded in all the recopying of the laws of Moses. That is their educated opinion of missing scripture/law.
On the other hand as a comparative example, if there had been many laws given for the governing of same sex relationships but a law specifying same sex marriage was missing, one could surmise at one point, a law approving same sex marriage did exist with all the other existing laws of same sex relations. Understand?
But all we have are laws and rules and guidelines for opposite sex unions/marriages. Nothing was included for same sex relationships/marriages at any point that we are aware of. And if you wish to contend that all that information did exist but was removed at some point, you only prove that the Bible is truly a man man made book of his own opinions and thoughts and is not of God at all. You'll prove God had no control of what went into the Bible. Therefore you'll prove the Bible to be very untrustworthy.
And if you believe that, you'll have to prove a conspiracy theory that combines Jews and Christians, doctoring Jewish writings and Christian writings to erase any mention of same sex actions/laws/rules/guidelines as far back as 1800 years ago.
Now a question. What is with you and this Bible word homosexual? What will my response prove from you? That the word homosexual is a English word? Not a Greek or Hebrew or Aramaic word?
The english word homosexual in 2012 defines a person attracted to the same sex. Do you wish to substantiate that we are the first society on earth to invent a word for a person that's attracted to the same sex? Please tell me you have something truly interesting to tell me?
What word did the word 'homosexual' replace in the bible? It's a simple question.

Robert

“Good day to you!”

Since: Oct 08

Earth

#195 Oct 5, 2012
Rick in Kansas wrote:
<quoted text>I'm referring more to the verses where the words "homosexuality/homosexual s" have in recent times been "translated" into the New Testament in Paul's lists of those he says will not be inheriting the kingdom of heaven. In the oldest known copies of his epistles, those who did the copying say he used a word for which the literal translation makes little sense both then and now and any "translation" of it, literal or otherwise is just a guess. It's not a word that neither the writer nor reader would have recognized as a mention of same sex sex acts or those who engage in them and what little is known about how it was taught by Christians was as a warning to those caught playing with themselves. It became a warning to the homosexual because good Christians wanted it to be a warning to homosexuals, no other reason.
I understand and agree with most of what you say. But if you consider it, the Christian Bible directly and indirectly forbids anyone of any sexualality of partaking in sex unless one marries the opposite sex. So even heteros wishing to have sex without being married are told not to. So this just isn't about the Bible bashing homosexuals from engaging in same sex actions. Heteros are also bashed. And yes I understand the differences but I was making a point :)

“Good day to you!”

Since: Oct 08

Earth

#196 Oct 5, 2012
Robsan5 wrote:
<quoted text>
What word did the word 'homosexual' replace in the bible? It's a simple question.
Robert
Okay, I'm game. Do we go for the 1940 translation I think you mentioned, or do we begin with the first language used which was Latin?
Robsan5

United States

#197 Oct 5, 2012
No Surprise wrote:
<quoted text>
Okay, I'm game. Do we go for the 1940 translation I think you mentioned, or do we begin with the first language used which was Latin?
Let's work backwards. 1940 version.

Robert

“Good day to you!”

Since: Oct 08

Earth

#198 Oct 5, 2012
Robsan5 wrote:
<quoted text>
What word did the word 'homosexual' replace in the bible? It's a simple question.
Robert
We could also take this discussion back to it's source Paul, of who some think he "invented" from his own "special" language the word arsenokoit&#275;s.

“ reality, what a concept”

Since: Nov 07

this one

#199 Oct 5, 2012
No Surprise wrote:
I understand and agree with most of what you say. But if you consider it, the Christian Bible directly and indirectly forbids anyone of any sexualality of partaking in sex unless one marries the opposite sex. So even heteros wishing to have sex without being married are told not to. So this just isn't about the Bible bashing homosexuals from engaging in same sex actions. Heteros are also bashed. And yes I understand the differences but I was making a point :)
This still doesn't change the fact that the only reason that these two verses now condemn homosexuals by name or act is because they wanted it to. Many Christians are of the belief that since God as chosen to make so many of his children not to be heterosexual, the same moral rules that apply to heterosexuals must apply to the not heterosexuals as well. Neither same sex marriages nor same sex relationships are prohibited in the Bible.

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