God and Gays: The Rite to Bless Same-...

God and Gays: The Rite to Bless Same-sex Unions

There are 1053 comments on the Time story from Jul 16, 2012, titled God and Gays: The Rite to Bless Same-sex Unions. In it, Time reports that:

There is something by now familiar, even reassuring, about what happens in my church every third summer.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Time.

“ reality, what a concept”

Since: Nov 07

this one

#73 Sep 25, 2012
What wrote:
Matt 19:4 And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female,
Matt 19:5 And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh?
3Some Pharisees came to Jesus, testing Him and asking,“Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife for any reason at all?” 4And He answered and said,“Have you not read that He who created them from the beginning MADE THEM MALE AND FEMALE, 5and said,‘FOR THIS REASON A MAN SHALL LEAVE HIS FATHER AND MOTHER AND BE JOINED TO HIS WIFE, AND THE TWO SHALL BECOME ONE FLESH’? 6“So they are no longer two, but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together, let no man separate.” 7They said to Him,“Why then did Moses command to GIVE HER A CERTIFICATE OF DIVORCE AND SEND her AWAY?” 8He said to them,“Because of your hardness of heart Moses permitted you to divorce your wives; but from the beginning it has not been this way. 9“And I say to you, whoever divorces his wife, except for immorality, and marries another woman commits adultery.”

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#74 Sep 25, 2012
JohnInToronto wrote:
“the leaders of the Episcopal Church and similar bodies often don’t seem to be offering anything you can’t get from a purely secular liberalism.”
Bells and smells. Some folks need this and many Anglicans/Episcopalians outdo the Catholics in this area.
As a gay man and an atheist, I never feel uncomfortable going into an Anglican/Episcopalian church in an urban area (for a concert or event, for example). Less so even than going into a synagogue despite being raised a Jew.
They are both imitative cultural variants of Byzantine imperial ceremonialism, ALL with centuries of accreted distortions of the simple end-of-sabbath supper, known as the feast of the bridegroom (the sabbath itself was known as the bride) which, among the followers of Yeshua, redefined the breaking and sharing of the Sabbath chalah (leavened) at the beginning of the sabbath meal and the final cup of wine at the end. The gentile followers of Saul over the ensuing decades conflated these with the unleavened bread at the beginning of the Passover seder, and the cups of wine during it. Especially redefined was the last. The Elijah cup.

The Western churches especially focused their conflation by using only unleavened bread during liturgy, while the Eastern prepare two loaves of leavened bread, using one for the immediate communion service.

The rest of the pagentry is just a pretty confused combination of Byzantine court ceremonials and half-understood records of Jerusalem temple and synagogue practices.

I've been studying Liturgics for decades. It's interesting, and very revealing.

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#79 Sep 27, 2012
We were advised to "beware the leaven of the Pharisees".

Book-worshipping rule mongers!

Since: Aug 09

Location hidden

#80 Sep 27, 2012
snyper wrote:
<quoted text>
They are both imitative cultural variants of Byzantine imperial ceremonialism, ALL with centuries of accreted distortions of the simple end-of-sabbath supper, known as the feast of the bridegroom (the sabbath itself was known as the bride) which, among the followers of Yeshua, redefined the breaking and sharing of the Sabbath chalah (leavened) at the beginning of the sabbath meal and the final cup of wine at the end. The gentile followers of Saul over the ensuing decades conflated these with the unleavened bread at the beginning of the Passover seder, and the cups of wine during it. Especially redefined was the last. The Elijah cup.
The Western churches especially focused their conflation by using only unleavened bread during liturgy, while the Eastern prepare two loaves of leavened bread, using one for the immediate communion service.
The rest of the pagentry is just a pretty confused combination of Byzantine court ceremonials and half-understood records of Jerusalem temple and synagogue practices.
I've been studying Liturgics for decades. It's interesting, and very revealing.
Snyper,

So the Eastern use of leavened bread in its Communion Rite is more to the original idea!

RK

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#82 Sep 28, 2012
RevKen wrote:
<quoted text>
Snyper,
So the Eastern use of leavened bread in its Communion Rite is more to the original idea!
RK
The West uses unleavened, following a Passover imagery and association. The East uses leavened, following a Sabbath association.

Both theories a as overloaded with additional encrustation as a Hammerkop's nest.

Since: Aug 09

Location hidden

#83 Sep 28, 2012
snyper wrote:
<quoted text>
The West uses unleavened, following a Passover imagery and association. The East uses leavened, following a Sabbath association.
Both theories a as overloaded with additional encrustation as a Hammerkop's nest.
That is a good, simple explanation.

If a ritual of Eucharist is to be conducted, is there a form or present usage that you have found to be both elegantly powerful and a respectful remembrance?

I ask sincerely, knowing that a simple meal among friends, in which the bread and wine are blessed and consumed in reflective remembrance, is no less than what Jesus asked for.

Rev. Ken
Andrew

Manito, IL

#84 Sep 28, 2012
Hick in Kansas wrote:
<quoted text>3Some Pharisees came to Jesus, testing Him and asking,“Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife for any reason at all?” 4And He answered and said,“Have you not read that He who created them from the beginning MADE THEM MALE AND FEMALE, 5and said,‘FOR THIS REASON A MAN SHALL LEAVE HIS FATHER AND MOTHER AND BE JOINED TO HIS WIFE, AND THE TWO SHALL BECOME ONE FLESH’? 6“So they are no longer two, but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together, let no man separate.” 7They said to Him,“Why then did Moses command to GIVE HER A CERTIFICATE OF DIVORCE AND SEND her AWAY?” 8He said to them,“Because of your hardness of heart Moses permitted you to divorce your wives; but from the beginning it has not been this way. 9“And I say to you, whoever divorces his wife, except for immorality, and marries another woman commits adultery.”
Glad to see you are now quoting Scripture against homomarriage, Hick.

“The Kingdom of God Begins NOW!”

Since: May 07

The Mountain Empire

#85 Sep 29, 2012
David wrote:
<quoted text>Glad to see you are now quoting Scripture against homomarriage, Hick.
Is Jesus proud of you?

Let's base it on your behavior - starting with the ex-wife and children.....

“The Kingdom of God Begins NOW!”

Since: May 07

The Mountain Empire

#86 Sep 29, 2012
Rick in Kansas wrote:
<quoted text>3Some Pharisees came to Jesus, testing Him and asking,“Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife for any reason at all?” 4And He answered and said,“Have you not read that He who created them from the beginning MADE THEM MALE AND FEMALE, 5and said,‘FOR THIS REASON A MAN SHALL LEAVE HIS FATHER AND MOTHER AND BE JOINED TO HIS WIFE, AND THE TWO SHALL BECOME ONE FLESH’? 6“So they are no longer two, but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together, let no man separate.” 7They said to Him,“Why then did Moses command to GIVE HER A CERTIFICATE OF DIVORCE AND SEND her AWAY?” 8He said to them,“Because of your hardness of heart Moses permitted you to divorce your wives; but from the beginning it has not been this way. 9“And I say to you, whoever divorces his wife, except for immorality, and marries another woman commits adultery.”
A shame fundamentalists don't understand context...
Robsan5

United States

#87 Sep 29, 2012
Andrew wrote:
<quoted text>Glad to see you are now quoting Scripture against homomarriage, Hick.
There's no Andrew here, David.
Please quote the passage from any bible that says, "man shall not marry man, nor shall woman marry woman."

Robert
Robsan5

United States

#88 Sep 29, 2012
MiddleWay wrote:
<quoted text>
Is Jesus proud of you?
Let's base it on your behavior - starting with the ex-wife and children.....
Jesus had nothing to say about homosexuals, but he sure says a lot about divorce. Right, David?

Robert

Since: Mar 07

Location hidden

#89 Sep 29, 2012
Rick in Kansas wrote:
<quoted text>3Some Pharisees came to Jesus, testing Him and asking,“Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife for any reason at all?” 4And He answered and said,“Have you not read that He who created them from the beginning MADE THEM MALE AND FEMALE, 5and said,‘FOR THIS REASON A MAN SHALL LEAVE HIS FATHER AND MOTHER AND BE JOINED TO HIS WIFE, AND THE TWO SHALL BECOME ONE FLESH’? 6“So they are no longer two, but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together, let no man separate.” 7They said to Him,“Why then did Moses command to GIVE HER A CERTIFICATE OF DIVORCE AND SEND her AWAY?” 8He said to them,“Because of your hardness of heart Moses permitted you to divorce your wives; but from the beginning it has not been this way. 9“And I say to you, whoever divorces his wife, except for immorality, and marries another woman commits adultery.”
It's ALL about context, isn't it?

What so many folks proclaim as a "definition of marriage" was actually a prohibition against divorce.

And yet, so many Christians divorce.

Why is that?

Since: Mar 07

Location hidden

#90 Sep 29, 2012
Andrew wrote:
<quoted text>Glad to see you are now quoting Scripture against homomarriage, Hick.
Reading comprehension problems, David?

It's a prohibition against divorce. You know, like yours.

Since: Mar 07

Location hidden

#91 Sep 29, 2012
James Aist wrote:
Does God Approve of Gay “Marriage”?
Gay theology claims that the answer to this question is “Yes.” If it were true that God does not condemn homosexual behavior as sin in the context of a loving, committed and enduring homosexual relationship,....
"Gay theology" equals common sense.

Yes. We know.

Why would a so called loving God create gay people without the ability to be attracted to the opposite gender, and then build in them the same desires and needs that he gave everyone else - needs that are not harmful to them, or anyone else? But condemn them anyway?

And THEN, to top it off, he sends many a soul-mate to cherish, dangling love and happiness in front of his victims, only to yank it away with an evil laugh? For only THEY sin when they love and form families!

For everyone else, love and families are blessings, but for those he MADE gay, it's sin!

Do you believe he does this as some sort of twisted test or joke?

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#92 Sep 29, 2012
RevKen wrote:
<quoted text>
That is a good, simple explanation.
If a ritual of Eucharist is to be conducted, is there a form or present usage that you have found to be both elegantly powerful and a respectful remembrance?
I ask sincerely, knowing that a simple meal among friends, in which the bread and wine are blessed and consumed in reflective remembrance, is no less than what Jesus asked for.
Rev. Ken
That is precisely the earliest form, with perhaps some singing as at passover.

Have you ever seen any representations of the meal held after Friday evening service in a Hassidic schule? Lots of happy singing as the Rebbe asks the blessing then tears/cuts loaves of chalah in half, giving them to his nearest students who tear off a piece, passing them on. That starts the light community potluck. Light foods, wine, more happy singing then it's home with some "blessed" chalah to have Shabbat supper with the family.

There is far more of the tenor and substance of Yeshua's teaching to be found in "A loaf of bread, a bottle of wine, and thou" than can be found in even the simplest of subsequent liturgies.

“Good day to you!”

Since: Oct 08

Earth

#93 Sep 29, 2012
DNF wrote:
<quoted text>Not once do you quote Jesus. It's all the same agenda Saul of Tarsus created.
It makes me wonder how moral someone like you really is to distort who is really saying what you claim.
And before you take the usual cop out that the Bible doesn't record anything about Jesus saying what we claim, I remind you the Bible was compiled by a group of men with political, social, economic and religious agendas. I'll also point out part of your own Bible and challenge you to dispute what it implies.
John 21:25
New International Version (NIV)
25 Jesus did many other things as well. If every one of them were written down, I suppose that even the whole world would not have room for the books that would be written.
IMO you are one of the false prophets Jesus warned of. So was "Paul".
Paul had his own dogma I give you that. Heck, he went about advising people not to have sex and to advoid marriage unless they couldn't keep it in their pants. But Paul was very anti-sex in his writings of just about any sexual relations you could think of.
Next, personal view points of homosexuality are one thing we have a right to agree or disagree about. But, but in 6,000 supposed recorded Bible history, never a single solitary time did God ever say something in support of homosexuality. That's just a Bible fact.
So one would surmise if God is so quite on the matter, for a period of 6000 Bible years, plenty of time to have said something, with having said nothing to support it, one would surmise God's silence for 6000 years is an answer to the question.

“Good day to you!”

Since: Oct 08

Earth

#94 Sep 29, 2012
Robsan5 wrote:
<quoted text>
There's no Andrew here, David.
Please quote the passage from any bible that says, "man shall not marry man, nor shall woman marry woman."
Robert
Having a non-Biblical opinion of homosexuality and same sex marriage is a right afforded to us by laws now. But the Bible doesn't support neither and never has, simple fact.
God spoke about marriage and divorce and laws about marriage between a man and woman from Genesis to Revelations. God took time to make of laws and more laws to govern marriage between a man and woman. But never a single time did he speak of homosexual relationships. Never a single time did he endorse them. For 4000 years from Adam to the last apostle to die, God could have said something and didn't.
Robsan5

Los Angeles, CA

#95 Sep 29, 2012
No Surprise wrote:
<quoted text>
Having a non-Biblical opinion of homosexuality and same sex marriage is a right afforded to us by laws now. But the Bible doesn't support neither and never has, simple fact.
God spoke about marriage and divorce and laws about marriage between a man and woman from Genesis to Revelations. God took time to make of laws and more laws to govern marriage between a man and woman. But never a single time did he speak of homosexual relationships. Never a single time did he endorse them. For 4000 years from Adam to the last apostle to die, God could have said something and didn't.
Oh, please feel free to add to the bible all you want. Wait, isn't that some type of sin?
Have you ever figured that out the odds of flipping a quarter are 50/50?

Robert

“Good day to you!”

Since: Oct 08

Earth

#96 Sep 29, 2012
Robsan5 wrote:
<quoted text>
Oh, please feel free to add to the bible all you want. Wait, isn't that some type of sin?
Have you ever figured that out the odds of flipping a quarter are 50/50?
Robert
I'm adding nothing. I simply stated the obvious and for some, that information isn't what they want to hear. The bible has never ever in 4000 years of it's recorded history, in all the written records of just the Jewish faith we have, not a single word from God in 4000 years gave validation to homosexual relationships.
Now a faction of pro-gay supporters are adding to the Bible because they interpret and re-interpret anything they can of it to prove God is pro-gay. They state God is pro-gay. They'll say God approves of homosexual activity. Now that's a fact.
My point is an actual fact. In 4000 years of being able to say something, anything, just a single sentence verifying his approval of homosexuality, God has never ever did it according to Jewish and Christian literature.
A tough thing for some to accept.

“The Kingdom of God Begins NOW!”

Since: May 07

The Mountain Empire

#97 Sep 30, 2012
Robsan5 wrote:
<quoted text>
Oh, please feel free to add to the bible all you want. Wait, isn't that some type of sin?
Have you ever figured that out the odds of flipping a quarter are 50/50?
Robert
Mormons add whole books and I believe he is Moreman.

Eternal sex is their goal...

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