God and Gays: The Rite to Bless Same-...

God and Gays: The Rite to Bless Same-sex Unions

There are 1053 comments on the Time story from Jul 16, 2012, titled God and Gays: The Rite to Bless Same-sex Unions. In it, Time reports that:

There is something by now familiar, even reassuring, about what happens in my church every third summer.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Time.

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#748 Nov 14, 2012
Selecia Jones- JAX FL wrote:
<quoted text>Maybe Roboblogger will grab it.
Copy it to "DNF".

“Good day to you!”

Since: Oct 08

Earth

#749 Nov 14, 2012
AscendedFalmer wrote:
<quoted text>
Youre right, some people have ever-changing sexual orientations.
So I hid it. I buried it into the back of my mind like a victim of post traumatic stress, and was only able to remember through recall exercises with my psychologist. I didn't fully realize my sexual orientation until I was 17, and my best friend took his shirt off. Couldn't help myself but let out a gasp of awe.
An ever-changing sexual orientation is termed/defined bisexuality.
According to your story, you were attracted to males and because of negative influences, you hid that attraction. So you are of course defined a homosexual by definition since youth.
My friends had no negative influences. They were males and grew up being attracted to females to their teens. They weren't attracted to males by any means. One had a "chance encounter" with the same sex while drunk and liked it. They liked their future encounters so much with the same sex, that they totally lost all attractions once held for females and remain homosexual to this day decades later.
There are people in the world who will claim that same experience, remembering being attracted to one sex from childhood onward and then at some point, usually in late teens or twenties, losing that long held attraction for the opposite sex and never changing again.
A past landlord of mine, she was homosexual since childhood and experimented with a couple guys and didn't like it. In her thirties while I was a renter in her building, she met a woman in her thirties that had always been attracted to males all her life and had no interest in females at all. She met my landlord and something clicked and two decades later she's lost all attractions for males she once held for three decades.
Sexual orientation changes have happened to many but not under "scientific lab situations" so they are not considered "true sexual orientation changes" by the APA society and or scientific community.
So when science claims something can't be done, I reflect to the following...
Science still states humans didn't have the brains to make a ship that would cross the Atlantic 2000 years ago. They claim there was no trading between the old world and the new world prior to Columbus. Unfortunately they won't address how a plant with a narcotic effect that only grew in the Americas ended up in the DNA of mummified Egyptians some 2000 years ago. Neither will they address that carved into Mayan monuments/buildings, are the relief images of an animal with large ears, a trunk and tusks.
Trust science for what's it worth and nothing more :)

“Good day to you!”

Since: Oct 08

Earth

#750 Nov 14, 2012
DNF wrote:
<quoted text>You cute. You argue against pre-determination when it comes to being gay or lesbian yet end your post with, "Personally I like to think God has given us the freedom of choice to say/do as we say/do, even if he has the power to know those things before we have said/done them :)"
As much as you try to out-swim the whirlpool you created, you end up getting sucked into it nonetheless.
IOW you just helped prove what you are arguing against.
lol...nice try, not! ;)P You didn't understand the context of what I stated. I'll rephrase it to see if you understand it any better.
Just because God knows the future, that doesn't mean he created it/predetermined/predestined it. It just means he has the power to know it. Understand?

Since: Aug 09

Location hidden

#751 Nov 14, 2012
No Surprise wrote:
<quoted text>
lol...nice try, not! ;)P You didn't understand the context of what I stated. I'll rephrase it to see if you understand it any better.
Just because God knows the future, that doesn't mean he created it/predetermined/predestined it. It just means he has the power to know it. Understand?
What a bunch of malarky!

You need to keep rephrasing it to see if you understand it any better!

Just because God knows it / predetermined it / predestined it / has the power to know it ... doesn't mean he knows it.

yeah. We understand.

You prolly could successfully rephrase quotes from Billy Clinton, too.

Rev. Ken

Since: Aug 09

Location hidden

#752 Nov 14, 2012
No Surprise wrote:
<quoted text>
An ever-changing sexual orientation is termed/defined bisexuality.
According to your story, you were attracted to males and because of negative influences, you hid that attraction. So you are of course defined a homosexual by definition since youth.
My friends had no negative influences. They were males and grew up being attracted to females to their teens. They weren't attracted to males by any means. One had a "chance encounter" with the same sex while drunk and liked it. They liked their future encounters so much with the same sex, that they totally lost all attractions once held for females and remain homosexual to this day decades later.
There are people in the world who will claim that same experience, remembering being attracted to one sex from childhood onward and then at some point, usually in late teens or twenties, losing that long held attraction for the opposite sex and never changing again.
A past landlord of mine, she was homosexual since childhood and experimented with a couple guys and didn't like it. In her thirties while I was a renter in her building, she met a woman in her thirties that had always been attracted to males all her life and had no interest in females at all. She met my landlord and something clicked and two decades later she's lost all attractions for males she once held for three decades.
Sexual orientation changes have happened to many but not under "scientific lab situations" so they are not considered "true sexual orientation changes" by the APA society and or scientific community.
So when science claims something can't be done, I reflect to the following...
Science still states humans didn't have the brains to make a ship that would cross the Atlantic 2000 years ago. They claim there was no trading between the old world and the new world prior to Columbus. Unfortunately they won't address how a plant with a narcotic effect that only grew in the Americas ended up in the DNA of mummified Egyptians some 2000 years ago. Neither will they address that carved into Mayan monuments/buildings, are the relief images of an animal with large ears, a trunk and tusks.
Trust science for what's it worth and nothing more :)
No. It is not. Bisexuality is simply a word for a person who shows no particular preference - "goes both ways."

It is useless to try to stereotype human sexuality. It is a subjective experience that can be and is most often objectively shared. When one person has a sexual experience with another person, their minds and bodies are temporarily merged through sensation and intent to accept and experience the other person. To the extent that such merging occurs, they "know" each other. That is why that particular word is used to describe the experience.

Science does NOT state that "humans didn't have the brains to make a ship that would cross the Atlantic 2000 years ago." As a matter of fact, science holds that human brains are essentially the same today as they were in the Cro-Magnon populations of Homo Sapiens over 40,000 years ago. They looked like us. They smelled like us. They spoke like us. They sang and danced like us. They thought like us. And they were just as naive and gullible and easily misled and superstitious and bigoted and opinionated as we are today.

The idea that anyone should expect a panel of psychiatrists or psychologists to be convened and present while observing a human being making the instant of conversion from heterosexual to homosexual or bisexual so that they can definitively declare a scientific basis for concluding that such has occurred under laboratory conditions is goofy.

Either thay is or thay ain't and if thay ain't thay could be, no matter whether thay planned it or not. Plus, thay don't haffta ask permission.

Country Bumpkin Priest

“Good day to you!”

Since: Oct 08

Earth

#753 Nov 14, 2012
RevKen wrote:
<quoted text>
What a bunch of malarky!
You need to keep rephrasing it to see if you understand it any better!
Just because God knows it / predetermined it / predestined it / has the power to know it ... doesn't mean he knows it.
yeah. We understand.
You prolly could successfully rephrase quotes from Billy Clinton, too.
Rev. Ken
Your self induldged ignorance is as pathetic as your self induldged theory of the god you created to fit your limited thinking.
You're god created itself from nothing to become something, care to explain that one?
You're god knows all, predestined all, predetermined all including it's own thoughts/actions. Care to explain that one?
You're god had a purpose in creating itself from nothing to be something to create everything on a predetermined/predestined scale and for what purpose again?
Your self indulged idiocy of thought of your god is like that of yourself, something you don't comprend nor understand nor can you explain. So you creat a bunch of the deepest misunderstood and never understood thinking to explain that god. As usual, nice job :)

“Good day to you!”

Since: Oct 08

Earth

#754 Nov 14, 2012
RevKen wrote:
<quoted text>
No. It is not. Bisexuality is simply a word for a person who shows no particular preference - "goes both ways."
It is useless to try to stereotype human sexuality. It is a subjective experience that can be and is most often objectively shared.
I'm not usually crass but did you wake up and take a stupid pill this morning?
The poster said the following... "Youre right, some people have ever-changing sexual orientations." This pster didn't realize that what they described is called bisexuality, the ability to being attracted to both sexes, thus termed "bisexuality". Just as a person that finds no attaction to either sex is called asexual.
People that have developed into being homosexual or heterosexual, most have usually went through a phase in youth of "bisexual" experiences which guided them to understand the specifics of whom they're attracted to and whom they're not atrated to.
But of those that actally grow into homosexuality or heterosexuaity, never havig a sexual experience outside of their specific attraction, they are few in number.
So get over yourself. Humans have stereotyped almost everything into some catagory to explain it, including ou sexuality :)

Since: Jun 11

AOL

#755 Nov 14, 2012
Ban Stalkers wrote:
<quoted text>Homosexuality is a mental disorder that causes gay suicide. Get over it.
No, it is the anti-gay prejudice and discrimination you promote that leads some but not most gay people to suicide.

"It is important to note that being LGBT is not a risk factor in and of itself; however, the minority stressors that LGBT individual encounter - such as discrimination and harassment - are directly associated with suicidal behavior as well as indirectly with risk factors for suicide." (American Association of Suicidology)
http://www.suicidology.org/c/document_library...

Dr. Chris Beyrer, director of the Johns Hopkins Center for Public Health: "We know for certain that lesbian and gay individuals suffer harm to their physical and psychological health, and to their relationships and quality of life, as result of the shame, isolation and stigma accrued from their social and legal disenfranchisement."

The American Psychological Association : "Prejudice and discrimination have social and personal impact." "The widespread prejudice, discrimination, and violence to which lesbians and gay men are often subjected are significant mental health concerns. Sexual prejudice, sexual orientation discrimination, and anti-gay violence are major sources of stress for lesbian, gay, and bisexual people. Although social support is crucial in coping with stress, anti-gay attitudes and discrimination may make it difficult for lesbian, gay, and bisexual people to find such support."

“... truth will out.”

Since: May 08

Stratford, Connecticut.

#756 Nov 14, 2012
Robsan5 wrote:
<quoted text>
Get over it ...
Get over what?

Neither my Bible, or the "establishment clause" of the US Constitution have changed.

Since: Aug 09

Location hidden

#757 Nov 14, 2012
No Surprise wrote:
<quoted text>
I'm not usually crass but did you wake up and take a stupid pill this morning?
The poster said the following... "Youre right, some people have ever-changing sexual orientations." This pster didn't realize that what they described is called bisexuality, the ability to being attracted to both sexes, thus termed "bisexuality". Just as a person that finds no attaction to either sex is called asexual.
People that have developed into being homosexual or heterosexual, most have usually went through a phase in youth of "bisexual" experiences which guided them to understand the specifics of whom they're attracted to and whom they're not atrated to.
But of those that actally grow into homosexuality or heterosexuaity, never havig a sexual experience outside of their specific attraction, they are few in number.
So get over yourself. Humans have stereotyped almost everything into some catagory to explain it, including ou sexuality :)
Well,.... LOL!! Yes, you are usually crass.

I am a regular heterosexual. Not a bisexual. Not a homosexual. Not an asexual. Neither a pansexual or any other kind of alternative sexual. Even so, I am quite sure that my sexual experiences are my own and are not quite exactly the same as anyone else's. I thank God that my wife is tolerant of whatever she apparently likes about my sexuality. My guess is that those who allow themselves to be categorized as something other than heterosexual also are glad and thankful that their mates find something to appreciate in them.

Such coupling or pair-bonding of two individuals is normal, whether heterosexual or homosexual. But, it is not a requirement or a prerequisite, social or moral or spiritual, to becoming a successfully mature and loving human being. Though, society frequently tries to create such requirements. We are fundamentally tribal.

The bisexual person is not a person whose sexual orientation is ever-changing. Period. They just are who they are. Furthermore, unless one follows one of these bisexuals around and studies them like a rat in a box, one cannot ever fully understand what is going on inside the other person's head. Even such studying would not be sufficient. Stereotyping of others, as you are prone to do, may be a common practice. But, that does not make it either effective or correct.

It just makes the viewing and description of others convenient.

Country Bumpkin Priest
Robsan5

Modesto, CA

#758 Nov 14, 2012
Joe DeCaro wrote:
<quoted text>
Get over what?
Neither my Bible, or the "establishment clause" of the US Constitution have changed.
If your bible has the word 'homosexual' in it, it doesn't follow the original writings (which were Latin according to NoClue!).
How is the EC relevant to this discussion?

Robert

Since: Jun 11

AOL

#759 Nov 14, 2012
"What the Bible Really Says About Homosexuality" by Daniel Helminiask, PH.D., was ordained as a Catholic priest in 1967 and is incardinated in the Diocese of Pittsburgh. From 1981-1985 was Assoc Prof for Systematic Theology at Oblate School of Theology and earlier completed his Ph.D. in systematic theology at Boston College and Andover Newton Theological School. He concludes the Bible says absolutely nothing about homosexuality being sinful when you examine the actual Hebrew/Greek texts."

Baptist Rev Dr. William R. Stayton, Divinity degree from Andover
Newtown Theological School and on faculty of LaSalle University's Grad program in Religious studies:- "There is nothing in the Bible regarding homosexual orientation. In fact, the Bible does not concern itself with sexual orientation. It does speak against gang rape, male prostitution for religious purposes, and pederasty. I lead bible study programs on this subject and am convinced that the Bible does not address the issue of a person's sexual orientation."

"God is not a Homophobe: An unbiased look at Homosexuality in the Bible" by Philo Thelos
Several books already exist attempting to demonstrate that the Christian Bible does not, in fact, condemn consenting-adult homosexuality. But God is Not a Homophobe has a unique perspective in that the author has a lifetime of experience in pastoring hard-core fundamentalist churches. His former bitter opposition to all forms of homosexuality has given way to a rational, unbiased acceptance that the Bible says hardly anything about homosexuality, and what it does say cannot honestly be used to condemn consenting same-sex unions."

“Good day to you!”

Since: Oct 08

Earth

#760 Nov 14, 2012
RevKen wrote:
<quoted text>
Well,.... LOL!! Yes, you are usually crass.
I am a regular heterosexual. Not a bisexual. Not a homosexual. Not an asexual. Neither a pansexual or any other kind of alternative sexual. Even so, I am quite sure that my sexual experiences are my own and are not quite exactly the same as anyone else's. I thank God that my wife is tolerant of whatever she apparently likes about my sexuality. My guess is that those who allow themselves to be categorized as something other than heterosexual also are glad and thankful that their mates find something to appreciate in them.
Such coupling or pair-bonding of two individuals is normal, whether heterosexual or homosexual. But, it is not a requirement or a prerequisite, social or moral or spiritual, to becoming a successfully mature and loving human being. Though, society frequently tries to create such requirements. We are fundamentally tribal.
The bisexual person is not a person whose sexual orientation is ever-changing. Period. They just are who they are. Furthermore, unless one follows one of these bisexuals around and studies them like a rat in a box, one cannot ever fully understand what is going on inside the other person's head. Even such studying would not be sufficient. Stereotyping of others, as you are prone to do, may be a common practice. But, that does not make it either effective or correct.
It just makes the viewing and description of others convenient.
Country Bumpkin Priest
You accuse me of Stereotyping others as I am prone to do? lol... Did you just miss the fact that you sexually stereotyped yourself and others in your post? Man, get over your hypocritical self righteousness dude! lol.
Also, a person who is attracted to the opposite sex and then the same sex over and over, that is basically called a "ever changing sexual orientation" as the other poster put it. But because the early fathers of psychology liked to "stereotype" (as you stated it) actions/mannerisms so they could describe those actions/mannerisms, they noted a person attracted to both sexes had dual sexual orientations. So they stereotyped them "bi" meaning two, as in bisexual, attracted to two sexual orientations.

“Good day to you!”

Since: Oct 08

Earth

#761 Nov 15, 2012
Not Yet Equal wrote:
"What the Bible Really Says About Homosexuality" by Daniel Helminiask, PH.D.... He concludes...
Baptist Rev Dr. William R. Stayton,..."There is nothing in the Bible regarding homosexual orientation....It does speak against gang rape, male prostitution for religious purposes, and pederasty.
"God is not a Homophobe: An unbiased look at Homosexuality in the Bible" by Philo Thelos...that the Bible says hardly anything about homosexuality,
So the first guy concludes...meaning his theory is not factually based.
The second guy makes two statements regarding homosexual orientation. The argument isn't about orientation. The argument of pro and con is of the "sexual engagement" of people sexually orientated to same sex attraction. But he does admit that same sex rape, prostitution and pederasty, all specified sexual acts between same sex individuals is spoken against.
And the last guy states the Bible "hardly" says anything about homosexuality, meaning he believes it does speak about/against it.
So much for solid info on the topic eh? lol...

Since: Aug 09

Location hidden

#762 Nov 15, 2012
No Surprise wrote:
<quoted text>
You accuse me of Stereotyping others as I am prone to do? lol... Did you just miss the fact that you sexually stereotyped yourself and others in your post? Man, get over your hypocritical self righteousness dude! lol.
Also, a person who is attracted to the opposite sex and then the same sex over and over, that is basically called a "ever changing sexual orientation" as the other poster put it. But because the early fathers of psychology liked to "stereotype" (as you stated it) actions/mannerisms so they could describe those actions/mannerisms, they noted a person attracted to both sexes had dual sexual orientations. So they stereotyped them "bi" meaning two, as in bisexual, attracted to two sexual orientations.
No. I did not miss that fact. I made the point on purpose to show how useless such stereotyping really is. Neither you nor I or anybody else can truly gauge another person's experience. It is unique and infinitely so.

We can objectively agree on what is important. We can commit our allegiance and will to defend the interests of another. We can make up reasonable rules and adhere to common guidelines for the welfare and produtive capacities of each other. We can even try walking in the other man's shoes for a distance to develop some appreciation for his or her experience.

But, ultimately we are individuals. If then, we desire to share our life with another person and that person desires to commit to that same sharing then I see no reason to stand in their way of doing so.

In fact, as a priest, I will agree to bless their union.

Rev. Ken
A priest and disciple of Christ Jesus.

“... truth will out.”

Since: May 08

Stratford, Connecticut.

#763 Nov 15, 2012
Robsan5 wrote:
<quoted text>
If your bible has the word 'homosexual' in it, it doesn't follow the original writings (which were Latin according to NoClue ...
The original writings of the New Testament were Greek and Aramaic, and homosexual is a Greek-Latin construct.

“The Kingdom of God Begins NOW!”

Since: May 07

The Mountain Empire

#764 Nov 15, 2012
Joe DeCaro wrote:
<quoted text>
The original writings of the New Testament were Greek and Aramaic, and homosexual is a Greek-Latin construct.
So it wasn't originally in the Bible.....
Robsan5

Ballwin, MO

#765 Nov 15, 2012
Joe DeCaro wrote:
<quoted text>
The original writings of the New Testament were Greek and Aramaic, and homosexual is a Greek-Latin construct.
It's a modern construct. What was the ancient Aramaic, Latin or Greek word for 'homosexual'?

Robert

Since: Jun 11

AOL

#766 Nov 15, 2012
No Surprise wrote:
<quoted text>
So the first guy concludes...meaning his theory is not factually based.
The second guy makes two statements regarding homosexual orientation. The argument isn't about orientation. The argument of pro and con is of the "sexual engagement" of people sexually orientated to same sex attraction. But he does admit that same sex rape, prostitution and pederasty, all specified sexual acts between same sex individuals is spoken against.
And the last guy states the Bible "hardly" says anything about homosexuality, meaning he believes it does speak about/against it.
So much for solid info on the topic eh? lol...
No. "He concludes" means that after a through examination of the evidence over the course of many years, the evidence is clear. "He concludes the Bible says absolutely nothing about homosexuality being sinful when you examine the actual Hebrew/Greek texts."

Again, "Several books already exist attempting to demonstrate that the Christian Bible does not, in fact, condemn consenting-adult homosexuality." I gave you references to only 3 of those many books which explain; "what the Bible forbids is acts of lust, rape, idolatry, violation of religious purity obligations, or pederasty, but not condemnation of homosexuality in relationships of mutual respect and love." ( Dr. James B. Nelson, Professor of Christian Ethics, United Theological Seminary)

Your desire to find excuses to ignore the Golden Rule, are supported only by mistranslations and misinterpretations of the original texts, not the original texts themselves.
Cool Hand Luke

Scranton, PA

#767 Nov 15, 2012
Maryland has same sex marriage are you equal there now?
Not Yet Equal wrote:
<quoted text>
No. "He concludes" means that after a through examination of the evidence over the course of many years, the evidence is clear. "He concludes the Bible says absolutely nothing about homosexuality being sinful when you examine the actual Hebrew/Greek texts."
Again, "Several books already exist attempting to demonstrate that the Christian Bible does not, in fact, condemn consenting-adult homosexuality." I gave you references to only 3 of those many books which explain; "what the Bible forbids is acts of lust, rape, idolatry, violation of religious purity obligations, or pederasty, but not condemnation of homosexuality in relationships of mutual respect and love." ( Dr. James B. Nelson, Professor of Christian Ethics, United Theological Seminary)
Your desire to find excuses to ignore the Golden Rule, are supported only by mistranslations and misinterpretations of the original texts, not the original texts themselves.

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