God and Gays: The Rite to Bless Same-sex Unions

Jul 16, 2012 Full story: Time 1,053

There is something by now familiar, even reassuring, about what happens in my church every third summer.

Full Story
Robsan5

United States

#200 Oct 5, 2012
No Surprise wrote:
<quoted text>
We could also take this discussion back to it's source Paul, of who some think he "invented" from his own "special" language the word arsenokoit&#275;s.
Let's start with the easy answers.

Robert

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#201 Oct 5, 2012
No Surprise wrote:
<quoted text>
Okay, I'm game. Do we go for the 1940 translation I think you mentioned, or do we begin with the first language used which was Latin?
Uh ... Hebrew, Hebrew Aramaic, Classical Greek, Coptic and Koine (in that order). The vulgar tongue was much later.
Robsan5

United States

#202 Oct 5, 2012
snyper wrote:
<quoted text>
Uh ... Hebrew, Hebrew Aramaic, Classical Greek, Coptic and Koine (in that order). The vulgar tongue was much later.
I was gonna let the 'Latin was first' thing slide by...

Robert
Robsan5

United States

#204 Oct 6, 2012
No Surprise wrote:
<quoted text>
It's not a matter of reading into something that isn't there. It's a matter of using logic while assembling many "non-said" things along with comparative "said" things. Follow?...
I totally get you. Please feel free to fill in all the things god 'forgot' to include in the bible.

Robert

“The Kingdom of God Begins NOW!”

Since: May 07

The Mountain Empire

#205 Oct 6, 2012
No Surprise wrote:
<quoted text>
In that statement what was the BS you smelled as a Jew? That there is no such thing as a literal translation? Literal and translation used together is a contradiction in itself. Prove me wrong if you wish :)
Nah, no point, you think Native Americans are Jews (LMAO) despite what science proves.

You believe you will be god of your own planet.

You believe Joie Smith had revelations. I think he was a con artist.

I believe in God, as the only God, not just as god of this planet.

You believe in blood oaths.

You believe you are the chosen ones (LOL).

You're too brainwashed to help, only the true God of ALL can help you now.

Go away, you pervert of satan....

“The Kingdom of God Begins NOW!”

Since: May 07

The Mountain Empire

#206 Oct 6, 2012
snyper wrote:
<quoted text>
Uh ... Hebrew, Hebrew Aramaic, Classical Greek, Coptic and Koine (in that order). The vulgar tongue was much later.
Moremans think they have a monopoly on knowledge.

I wonder if they planted a fake tree in the celestial room of the temple and told their brainwashed members to eat....
Robsan5

United States

#207 Oct 6, 2012
No Surprise wrote:
<quoted text>
...Example: in the OT when Moses was going through the "do-nots" of incest, sex between a father and daughter isn't mentioned. So some say sex between a father and daughter is okay because God didn't make a law against it.
But if you talk to a rabbi worth his studies, you will find that many Jews believe for whatever reason, a law against sex between a father and daughter was stated but somehow came to be excluded in all the recopying of the laws of Moses. That is their educated opinion of missing scripture/law.
...And if you wish to contend that all that information did exist but was removed at some point, you only prove that the Bible is truly a man man made book of his own opinions and thoughts and is not of God at all. You'll prove God had no control of what went into the Bible. Therefore you'll prove the Bible to be very untrustworthy...
I'm glad you agree that the bible is an untrustworthy record of god's word.

Robert

“Good day to you!”

Since: Oct 08

Earth

#208 Oct 6, 2012
Rick in Kansas wrote:
<quoted text>This still doesn't change the fact that the only reason that these two verses now condemn homosexuals by name or act is because they wanted it to. Many Christians are of the belief that since God as chosen to make so many of his children not to be heterosexual, the same moral rules that apply to heterosexuals must apply to the not heterosexuals as well. Neither same sex marriages nor same sex relationships are prohibited in the Bible.
Paul was very against anyone having sex unless they were married as was proscribed by the laws of Moses. He spoke of adulterers and even single people in this category. And it is evident if you read the old Greek translations, Paul was trying his best to include same sex gender having sexual relations, what we now call homosexuality in his list of forbidden sexual acts.
Paul didn't waste time with words you might have noticed in his writings. He usually got right to the point of his contention concerning whatever.
So if same sex marriage and relations in Paul's time were so fine and well with the Lord, it seems to me that Paul would have mentioned something about the differences between men and women marrying and same gender marrying. If God was prohomosexuality it seems Paul would have said something. He would never have used a word for effeminate.
The fact is as you stated, there is nothing there to prohibit or to allow same sex relations/marriage. It is up to the person to believe what they do who believes in the Bible.
Outside of the Bible, I believe a person has a right to any sexual orientation they are. But I see no evidence from the Bible that it supports/validates same sex relations/marriage, so I think it's not a good source to prove God is okay with homosexuality and or it's relationships.
And this "God made people to be homosexuals" idealism, it would have to ultimately support the beliefs that God creates killers and bisexuals and gifted runners and heterosexuals and really smart people and a-sexuals etc, etc. That idealism takes away freedom of choice. If we have no freedom of choice, then God has chosen some to be sexual predators, others to be bigots and hate mongerers, others to be pacifists, others to be religious, others to be non-religious, others to be a little religious, others to be killers and murderers...see where that idealism takes us? This idealism if true, could mean next week that God has it planned for you to murder someone.
I believe God gives us challenges to face while allowing us the free will to make decisions of that challenge and how we will confront it. That is what I believe.

“Good day to you!”

Since: Oct 08

Earth

#209 Oct 6, 2012
Robsan5 wrote:
<quoted text>
Let's start with the easy answers.
Robert
Which are?

“Good day to you!”

Since: Oct 08

Earth

#210 Oct 6, 2012
Robsan5 wrote:
<quoted text>
I totally get you. Please feel free to fill in all the things god 'forgot' to include in the bible.
Robert
Really, you want this info? Aren't you acquainted with any of it?

God didn't included incest between dad and daughter.
He didn't include information on homosexuality, same sex relations, same sex marriages. There is no specific information on it being wrong to force another to have sex. There is no information forbidding slavery. There is no information forbidding sex between adults and youth/children be the adult married or single. There is nothing forbidding shacking up. Care for me to go on? There is nothing that states one spouse can't beat the *hit out of the other. There is nothing forbidding the physical beating of kids. There is nothing forbidding the beating and torture of people and or animals.
Now for writings God forgot to include that were mentioned.

Book of the Wars of the Lord Numbers 21:14
Book of Jasher Joshua 10:13; 2 Samuel 1:18
Book of the acts of Solomon 1 Kings 11:41
Book of Samuel the seer 1 Chronicles 29:29
Book of Gad the seer 1 Chronicles 29:29
Book of Nathan the prophet 1 Chronicles 29:29; 2 Chronicles 9:29
Prophecy of Ahijah 2 Chronicles 9:29
Visions of Iddo the Seer 2 Chronicles 9:29; 12:15; 13:22
Book of Shemaiah 2 Chronicles 12:15
Book of Jehu 2 Chronicles 20:34
Sayings of the Seers 2 Chronicles 33:19
An epistle of Paul to the Corinthians, earlier than our present 1 Corinthians 1 Corinthians 5:9
An earlier epistle to the Ephesians Ephesians 3:3
Epistle to the Laodiceans Colosians 4:16
Prophecies of Enoch, known to Jude Jude 1:14
Book of the covenant Exodus 24:7 (may or may not be included in the current book of Exodus)
The Manner of the Kingdom, written by Samuel 1 Samuel 10:25
Acts of Uzziah, written by Isaiah 2 Chronicles 26:22
The “Acts of Abijah…in the Story of the Prophet Iddo”

“Good day to you!”

Since: Oct 08

Earth

#211 Oct 6, 2012
MiddleWay wrote:
<quoted text>
Nah, no point, you think Native Americans are Jews (LMAO) despite what science proves.
You believe you will be god of your own planet.
You believe Joie Smith had revelations. I think he was a con artist.
I believe in God, as the only God, not just as god of this planet.
You believe in blood oaths.
You believe you are the chosen ones (LOL).
You're too brainwashed to help, only the true God of ALL can help you now.
Go away, you pervert of satan....
You're a self proved idiot, nice job :)

“Good day to you!”

Since: Oct 08

Earth

#212 Oct 6, 2012
Robsan5 wrote:
<quoted text>
I'm glad you agree that the bible is an untrustworthy record of god's word.
Robert
I didn't agree to anything and, I never said the Bible was a trust worthy book of God's words in the first place :)

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#213 Oct 7, 2012
No Surprise wrote:
<quoted text>
Really, you want this info? Aren't you acquainted with any of it?
God didn't included incest between dad and daughter.
He didn't include information on homosexuality, same sex relations, same sex marriages. There is no specific information on it being wrong to force another to have sex. There is no information forbidding slavery. There is no information forbidding sex between adults and youth/children be the adult married or single. There is nothing forbidding shacking up. Care for me to go on? There is nothing that states one spouse can't beat the *hit out of the other. There is nothing forbidding the physical beating of kids. There is nothing forbidding the beating and torture of people and or animals.
Now for writings God forgot to include that were mentioned.
Book of the Wars of the Lord Numbers 21:14
Book of Jasher Joshua 10:13; 2 Samuel 1:18
Book of the acts of Solomon 1 Kings 11:41
Book of Samuel the seer 1 Chronicles 29:29
Book of Gad the seer 1 Chronicles 29:29
Book of Nathan the prophet 1 Chronicles 29:29; 2 Chronicles 9:29
Prophecy of Ahijah 2 Chronicles 9:29
Visions of Iddo the Seer 2 Chronicles 9:29; 12:15; 13:22
Book of Shemaiah 2 Chronicles 12:15
Book of Jehu 2 Chronicles 20:34
Sayings of the Seers 2 Chronicles 33:19
An epistle of Paul to the Corinthians, earlier than our present 1 Corinthians 1 Corinthians 5:9
An earlier epistle to the Ephesians Ephesians 3:3
Epistle to the Laodiceans Colosians 4:16
Prophecies of Enoch, known to Jude Jude 1:14
Book of the covenant Exodus 24:7 (may or may not be included in the current book of Exodus)
The Manner of the Kingdom, written by Samuel 1 Samuel 10:25
Acts of Uzziah, written by Isaiah 2 Chronicles 26:22
The “Acts of Abijah…in the Story of the Prophet Iddo”
You forgot a few. lol

Still, you're certainly aware of the canonical problems of a lot of the views expressed by supposedly canonical writers.

DNF

“Religious Freedom to Marry”

Since: Apr 07

Newark OH / Baltimore MD

#214 Oct 7, 2012
snyper wrote:
<quoted text>
Back in Cali for the past few weeks, and until the end of the year.
ATM, I'm laid-up with the chest cold that was supposed to be a head cold but never stays that way with me.
Decongestant cough medicine makes me loopy, but coughing too much wears me out. Either way I end up sleeping too much.
Glad you guys are on it.
One word my friend.

MUCINEX!

I have the same problem. Glad to know you got back safely. My prayers are always with you.

DNF

“Religious Freedom to Marry”

Since: Apr 07

Newark OH / Baltimore MD

#215 Oct 7, 2012
No Surprise wrote:
<quoted text>
In that statement what was the BS you smelled as a Jew? That there is no such thing as a literal translation? Literal and translation used together is a contradiction in itself. Prove me wrong if you wish :)
I smell someone arguing out of both sides of their hat.

Careful dear. You've posted some very interesting entries online. Careful reading may prove that you contradict your own basic tenet in your debate.

You just claimed that the Bible is specific and clear about a few subjects you agreed isn't a topic generally discussed in the Bible.

Incest was one. Yet one of the most famous and most often misused stories from the Bible about the "morality of homosexuality" ends with the same incest you say the RELIGION the Bible is based on clearly condemns.

DNF

“Religious Freedom to Marry”

Since: Apr 07

Newark OH / Baltimore MD

#216 Oct 7, 2012
Robsan5 wrote:
<quoted text>
What word did the word 'homosexual' replace in the bible? It's a simple question.
Robert
A better question might be what word was used to refer to a same sex couple back then.

Think about that and then look up John 21:25.

DNF

“Religious Freedom to Marry”

Since: Apr 07

Newark OH / Baltimore MD

#217 Oct 7, 2012
No Surprise wrote:
<quoted text>
We could also take this discussion back to it's source Paul, of who some think he "invented" from his own "special" language the word arsenokoit&#275;s.
And you just provided the key that shows your claim about what God accepts is based on what PAUL SAYS God accepts.

My thanks for showing it's really PAUL and not God or Jesus who makes the claims you insist are the word of God.

Since: Mar 09

Location hidden

#218 Oct 7, 2012
DNF wrote:
<quoted text>One word my friend.
MUCINEX!
I have the same problem. Glad to know you got back safely. My prayers are always with you.
A standard, I assure you. We make our own sarsparilla. lol.

NZ was wonderful. PM me sometime if you want details.

btw: You are getting quite good at this. lol

DNF

“Religious Freedom to Marry”

Since: Apr 07

Newark OH / Baltimore MD

#219 Oct 7, 2012
snyper wrote:
<quoted text>
A standard, I assure you. We make our own sarsparilla. lol.
NZ was wonderful. PM me sometime if you want details.
btw: You are getting quite good at this. lol
my teacher reminds me topix needs a humble icon.
Robsan5

United States

#220 Oct 7, 2012
No Surprise wrote:
<quoted text>
Which are?
What word was used in place of 'homosexual' in the bible prior to 1940?

Robert

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