Discrimination against gays unfair

[being gay will never]

and I will never understand why the same sex has to be togather a man cannot have a baby no matter how hard they try a man may get a sex change but he still is born a man and that is a fact a person that is born as a man will always be a man. and in their sick mine they are telling us that somehow they got mix up and was surpose to be a woman wronge you were born to be a man. and get over it. this is the reason why their are not enough man now and woman are having to share their man with ten other woman. what not in jail the rest of them want to be woman.

[McMike]

Dan wrote:

No, but God wasn't queer.

God isn't straight either.

[McMike]

mdckmn wrote:

<quoted text> I think that it can be learned behavior.

I would suppose it's the child's STRAIGHT parents teaching them to be gay? Get real. If sexuality was a learned behavior then every child would grow up to be straight seeing they're being taught by 2 straights.

[NE Jade]

being gay will never wrote:

too painful to re post

Did you finish 6th grade? Reading what you posted was actually embarrassing and painful. Try using spell check, it would catch many spelling errors, but you also need to work on grammar. When a person posts with such horrid spelling, grammatical errors, and senseless rambling, it will never be taken seriously

[mdckmn]

McMike wrote:

<quoted text>
I would suppose it's the child's STRAIGHT parents teaching them to be gay? Get real. If sexuality was a learned behavior then every child would grow up to be straight seeing they're being taught by 2 straights.

I said that it can be, not that it is exclusively a learned behavior. Easy does it!

[Patrick in Texas]

mdckmn wrote:

<quoted text>
I think that if we assume that homosexuality is innate, you're absolutely right. My experience hasn't taught me that. I know a young man who came to me homosexual as a direct result of the influence of another. He was tormented and left the lifestyle. I know teenagers who tell me that some kids in High School think that it's cool to experiment with bi-sexuality. For kids with the appropriate mental tenacity I suppose that wouldn't pose much of a problem; for others it may spell their demise. At the same time, one must address the needs of those who self identify as homosexual because to do otherwise would be cruel. But it's hardly a simple problem. And these issues are just the secular ones; the roots of this issue run deep, and how we handle it will have profound consequences.

It sounds like your friend was bi-sexual. Every single gay person I have ever met has said they were born that way. I'm gay and I know that my sexual orientation was never a choice.

[Patrick in Texas]

I love liberals wrote:

Gay pride parades open these feaks up as targets..the in your face, you must deal with us mentality will NEVER win normal people over. If they keep things quiet and not so in my face I would leave them alone.
There is nothing to be proud about taking it in the Poop Chute.

There is nothing to be proud about being a homophobic bigot.

[mdckmn]

Patrick in Texas wrote:

<quoted text>
It sounds like your friend was bi-sexual. Every single gay person I have ever met has said they were born that way. I'm gay and I know that my sexual orientation was never a choice.

Actually, he was more likely a heterosexual who had been strongly influenced into homosexual practices by an older homosexual. He suffered for quite awhile in confusion until he worked it out. It was hard to watch.

[Patrick in Texas]

mdckmn wrote:

<quoted text> Actually, he was more likely a heterosexual who had been strongly influenced into homosexual practices by an older homosexual. He suffered for quite awhile in confusion until he worked it out. It was hard to watch.

That would be like me saying I was influenced by an older women to be straight. It's not going to happen. You are what you are. It sounds more to me like your friend could go either way (bisexual) and decided to stick with the opposite sex. Maybe he felt life would be easier that way and he wouldn't have to deal with homophobic bigots.

[mdckmn]

Patrick in Texas wrote:

<quoted text>
That would be like me saying I was influenced by an older women to be straight. It's not going to happen. You are what you are. It sounds more to me like your friend could go either way (bisexual) and decided to stick with the opposite sex. Maybe he felt life would be easier that way and he wouldn't have to deal with homophobic bigots.

I'm just reporting the facts. When he was about 14 he got tangled up with a 19 year old homosexual. By the time he was 19, he was confused, miserable, and homeless. I invited him into my home where he lived for 2 years, and in the course of that time fought a heart wrenching battle for his identity. He's been happily married now for 4 years, been heterosexual for about 12 years. It is what it is.

[Inquisitarian]

mdckmn wrote:

<quoted text>
I think that if we assume that homosexuality is innate, you're absolutely right. My experience hasn't taught me that.

I see. So you think your experience carries greater weight than that of the people who have direct experience with having a same-sex orientation? What makes you any more of an expert than they?

mdckmn wrote:

I know a young man who came to me homosexual as a direct result of the influence of another. He was tormented and left the lifestyle.

I think you're confusing engaging in same-sex behavior with being same-sex oriented. While I'll entertain the idea that someone who is insecure about their sexuality could be persuaded to engage in same-sex behavior with sexual confusion being the end result, those cases are fairly rare in comparison to true homosexual orientation. A lot more confusion arises from being programmed from childhood for a heterosexual world, only to realize as you grow into adulthood that you're actually same-sex oriented.

Make no mistake: A person who is genuinely homosexual often understands from an early age that their feelings toward members of their own sex are different from what their peers seem to be experiencing. This is why I say 'sexual orientation' can be a misleading phrase; it creates the mistaken impression that orientation is primarily focused on sexuality and doesn't arise until puberty or later. Whereas the truth is that it's at least as much about feelings of affection and emotional/romantic attachment - things that we can experience long before we develop sexual interests.

As for torment - who wouldn't feel tormented about their sexuality if they grew up with influences telling them that everything they feel is evil and against the faith into which they've been indoctrinated? The source of torment isn't one's sexuality - it's the judgment of others heaped upon you for it. Of course, attempting to persuade a religious person who really believes beyond any doubt that homosexuality is evil or wrong is pointless. If that's really what you believe, no amount of argument is going to sway you - just as no amount of argument founded on religion will persuade me. You can't make me believe what I don't, and vice versa.

As for 'lifestyle' that's just a buzzword used to conjure up images of homosexuals as sexually obsessed, diseased, etc. It's used as a convenient way to ignore our true diversity and to overemphasize our sexuality, as if it were the center of our existance.

[mdckmn]

Patrick in Texas wrote:

<quoted text>
That would be like me saying I was influenced by an older women to be straight. It's not going to happen. You are what you are. It sounds more to me like your friend could go either way (bisexual) and decided to stick with the opposite sex. Maybe he felt life would be easier that way and he wouldn't have to deal with homophobic bigots.

You know, there's a possibility that just because we can't conceive of something for ourselves, it doesn't necessarily make it impossible for everyone else. This kid had 2 homosexual friends who were fairly mean-spirited and manipulative; it was understandable, they felt personally betrayed. He had to reject them to find peace of mind. He wasn't being pressed by bigotry. We all loved on him, accepted him, and he made his own choices. What I'm saying is that sometimes, but not always, there are exceptions.

[Inquisitarian]

mdckmn wrote:

<quoted text> I think that it can be learned behavior.

Learned behavior, or a learned orientation?

The difference is important. I agree that a person can 'learn' a pattern of behavior, but that isn't the same thing as learning to have a same-sex orientation. I seriously discount the idea that anyone consciously chooses to be primarily and continuously attracted to one sex or the other.

I don't think they can 'unconsciously choose' it, either.(Oxymorons, anyone?)

[Patrick in Texas]

mdckmn wrote:

<quoted text> You know, there's a possibility that just because we can't conceive of something for ourselves, it doesn't necessarily make it impossible for everyone else. This kid had 2 homosexual friends who were fairly mean-spirited and manipulative; it was understandable, they felt personally betrayed. He had to reject them to find peace of mind. He wasn't being pressed by bigotry. We all loved on him, accepted him, and he made his own choices. What I'm saying is that sometimes, but not always, there are exceptions.

I will agree with you on that. There are indeed exceptions to the rule.

[Inquisitarian]

being gay will never wrote:

further more people can talk until they turn blue but this is something that one never go away just like a black and white topic. I,m one to say this if their are two people that want to be togather they are going to be togather no matter what people say. what is the diffrents of living togather and not being married. people do this all the time. So if you are gay and you want to be togather be togather. this is your life and nobody has the right to say that you should not be togather. but do rember this it is written that man is for woman and woman for man so each of us has to answer to God for our own sins so if you think that beening gay is right then deal with it. that is on you.

You're telling us in one breath that it's our business and in the next using your religious beliefs to condemn us.

What I will affirm is that it is up to us how to live our own lives - including the choice of whether or not to marry - regardless of someone else's religious beliefs.

[Inquisitarian]

being gay will never wrote:

and I will never understand why the same sex has to be togather a man cannot have a baby no matter how hard they try a man may get a sex change but he still is born a man and that is a fact a person that is born as a man will always be a man. and in their sick mine they are telling us that somehow they got mix up and was surpose to be a woman wronge you were born to be a man. and get over it. this is the reason why their are not enough man now and woman are having to share their man with ten other woman. what not in jail the rest of them want to be woman.

The fact that you're incapable of understanding or at least sympathizing with the experience of others doesn't make them wrong, nor does it make you right.

[Inquisitarian]

I love liberals wrote:

Gay pride parades open these feaks up as targets..

I see. So you feel I've somehow brought whatever abuse I receive on myself - because someone else marched in a parade? Sorry, not seeing the connection here.

I love liberals wrote:

the in your face, you must deal with us mentality will NEVER win normal people over. If they keep things quiet and not so in my face I would leave them alone.

There's a difference between trying to live one's daily life without giving in to the bullies, versus acquiesing to the demands of bigots that one should keep that aspect of one's life hidden.

I will not hide just because the reality of my existance makes you uncomfortable.

I love liberals wrote:

There is nothing to be proud about taking it in the Poop Chute.

There is nothing to be proud of in making crude statements based on mistaken assumptions about other people's sexuality, either.

[Inquisitarian]

mdckmn wrote:

<quoted text> I'm just reporting the facts. When he was about 14 he got tangled up with a 19 year old homosexual.

Oh, here we go. The thinly veiled 'all homosexuals are child molesters' argument.

Well, I don't hink a 19-year old should be fooling around with a 14-year old, period.

Moreover, what you're trying to do here is employ an anecdotal fallacy, as if your experience with one victimized person is somehow informative of how every other homosexual 'got that way'.

It's pointless to pretend your innocence and claim this isn't what you're doing. If it weren't, why would you bring it up at all?

Your intent here is very clearly to paint homosexuality as a learned behavior and the product of vulnerable children being victimized, meanwhile ignoring anything to the contrary that you hear from people who knew they were same-sex oriented well before they engaged in sexual behavior and were not victims of molestation.

I suggest that you go preach to the choir in some other forum. You aren't telling us anything we haven't all heard literally thousands of times.

[Ricardo]

The way i see this is, quite simply, "whatever." For me, a heterosexual (or "hetero") male who is married with 2 kids, it doesn't matter to me much one way or the other if Joe and John want to get married. It does not affect me in any way, nor does it affect my lifestyle or stance on gays. They're gay, so what? Get over it. They've always been around, they'll always be around. Let em get married, let em have kids (adopt or natural if it is ever presented), and let em live their lives. I've known a few gay people in my lifetime and never have I had a reason to fear them, shun them, nor dislike them. They're people, just like you and me. As for all that God business, they're aware of that, too. It's a choice they made. I'm not religious, but if they really do have to answer to some supreme being, they will. And if they were truly in love with their significant other (or spouse), the answer they'll give to the Great One when asked, "Why did you do this?", will be, "It made me happy." Leave them alone and let them do as they will. It doesn't hurt our 'culture'(which leaves a lot to be desired for anyway), nor does it injure you personally. It scares you, cause it's not 'normal', you don't know how to handle it when you're exposed to it, so the first instinctive reaction to it is to hate, make excuses as to why this 'un-normalcy' is occuring, and berate those that are participating. Unless you're being stalked by a flock of homosexuals day and night, getting cat-called at when you walk by construction sites, or any other inconviences, I say, "who cares?" Let them be who they are: People.

[Inquisitarian]

mdckmn wrote:

We all loved on him, accepted him, and he made his own choices.

So, you're asking us to believe that you would have accepted his homosexuality, had he remained 'in the lifestyle'?(I really hate that phrase!)

Sorry, not believing it.